Caustic Soda Vs One Shot Sulphuric Acid
laven...@yahoo.com
Having googled around, it seems I should not mix the 2. I am trying
the caustic soda today followed by boiling water and detergent.
If that fails, how long should I wait before i move on to the acid?
david lang
> I have recently seen the sulphuric acid to clear blocked drains.
> Having googled around, it seems I should not mix the 2.
Absolutely not!!!!!!!! A serious explosion could result, covering all &
sundry with nasty stuff.
> I am trying
> the caustic soda today followed by boiling water and detergent.
>
> If that fails, how long should I wait before i move on to the acid?
If the drain doesn't unblock, try the caustic again or use rods. There will
still be a highly alkaline presense in the drain, so the acid will react
with it.
Dave
Andrew Mawson
<laven...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1136032454....@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
In my experience caustic soda is good for fatty deposits - kitchens
etc, and sulphuric acid is good for hair balls - baths & showers.
Beware that sulphuric acid will stain baths and shower trays so be
very careful how you pour it.
AWEM
Lobster
It's nothing to do with time - if you left it full of sulphuric acid
for, say, a month, and no water at all went down the drain, then you'd
potentially have a BIG problem if you shoved caustic soda in there.
However, alternatively if you were able to flush away all traces of the
acid using copious amounts of water, then it would be safe to use the
alkali within a few minutes. So it all depends on how effectively you
can get rid of the acid.
David
Chris Bacon
> I have recently seen the sulphuric acid to clear blocked drains.
> Having googled around, it seems I should not mix the 2. I am trying
> the caustic soda today followed by boiling water and detergent.
When you mix solid caustic soda and water, the mixture gets
hot. It can get very hot, and boil. When it boils, it can
and will spit hot caustic soda granules/boiling caustic
solution all over the place. If you pour boiling water onto
solid caustic soda, the temperature of the water will probably
immediately go up a bit, to above boiling, and it can and will
*violently* spit boiling water/steam/caustic solution/granules
all over the place.
The above is why it is recommended to mix the caustic into
cold water, carefully, to avoid being showered with caustic.
Read the side of the tub for more info.
You should avoid being showered with hot (or cold) caustic,
use eye/skin protection, and keep some vinegar and a pail or
two of cold water handy to wash in if there's an ewmergency.
If anyone tells you that the above isn't true, then they're
fools.
> If that fails, how long should I wait before i move on to the acid?
Make sure there's no caustic in the system before using acid,
or it will cause a violent reaction. Flush it with water first.
Quite frankly, I think you'd be better off dismantling the
system to do a proper job. Good Luck and take care.
Steve S
"Chris Bacon" <chris...@thai.com> wrote >
> When you mix solid caustic soda and water, the mixture gets
> hot. It can get very hot, and boil. When it boils, it can
> and will spit hot caustic soda granules/boiling caustic
> solution all over the place. If you pour boiling water onto
> solid caustic soda, the temperature of the water will probably
> immediately go up a bit, to above boiling, and it can and will
> *violently* spit boiling water/steam/caustic solution/granules
> all over the place.
>
> The above is why it is recommended to mix the caustic into
> cold water, carefully, to avoid being showered with caustic.
> Read the side of the tub for more info.
<snip>
Similarly, conc. sulphuric gets very hot when diluted. If attempting to
dilute sulphuric acid *always* add acid to water, *never* the other way
round. That way, if it boils and spits you are more likely to get splashed
with dilute acid. Eye protection etc. is a must.
Steve S
Steve Firth
> <snip>
>
> Similarly, conc. sulphuric gets very hot when diluted. If attempting to
> dilute sulphuric acid *always* add acid to water, *never* the other way
> round. That way, if it boils and spits you are more likely to get splashed
> with dilute acid. Eye protection etc. is a must.
Hmm but do you reckon he's going to able to buy sulphuric acid stronger
than 1M anywhere? Seems unlikely to me. It's difficult enough finding
hydrochloric acid for pavement cleaning.
Nigel Molesworth
>If that fails, how long should I wait before i move on to the acid?
Personally I would pour the acid in now, then run like hell!
I'm sure the resulting explosion will unblock the drains, and it might
bring down the rest of your ceiling as well, which is a GOOD thing.
--
Nigel M
Pete C
Hi,
Did you try blocking the WM waste, flushing cold, then slowly pouring
lots of hot and detergent before flushing with warm or more cold?
If you have to call someone out, it would be good to tell them before
they start about the chemical soup in the pipes.
Similarly if trying to flush the blockage again, take care so you
don't get a face full of caustic.
If the bath/shower drains and loo are running fine the blockage is
most likely in the branch to the kitchen sink.
cheers,
Pete.
Stuart Noble
> When you mix solid caustic soda and water, the mixture gets
> hot. It can get very hot, and boil. When it boils, it can
> and will spit hot caustic soda granules/boiling caustic
> solution all over the place.
I demonstrated this to one of the kids over Xmas. One part caustic, one
part water, and stir. I predicted it would melt the yoghourt pot, but it
didn't. Didn't boil, didn't spit. Hand hot I'd say.
Why people bother with acid or alkali drain unblockers is a mystery to
me. Most blockage respond to the smaller diameter garden hose (with a
flow of water if necessary)
sponix
In future, tip a cup of soda crystals down the plug hole, followed by
a pint of boiling water. Repeat this every week of so and it keeps the
drains clear.
sponix
meow...@care2.com
Theres also the option of a flexible wire rod. Screwfix sell them for
about £15 or so.
NT
Nigel Molesworth
>I have recently seen the sulphuric acid to clear blocked drains.
Just had a thought, are you sure it isn't blocked with the polystyrene
tiles that fell down? If so, pour down some diesel fuel. Make sure it
doesn't catch on fire, not with all those flammable tiles around.
--
Nigel M
Lobster
ROFL!!
Ed Sirett
HCl at 10% is readily available from s/fix under "Patio Cleaner" I use it
for general descaling. It's quite as strong as brickwork cleaner (travis
perkins). The local PM has Hcl (strength unknown).
The H2SO4 in the one shot drain cleaner is "94%" It seems pretty strong it
fumes and discolours many things.
--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html
Chris Bacon
Could well be worth a go. You could "borrow" some "curtain
wire", or use a bicycle cable, just for an experiment....
The Natural Philosopher
> laven...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> I have recently seen the sulphuric acid to clear blocked drains.
>> Having googled around, it seems I should not mix the 2.
>
> Absolutely not!!!!!!!! A serious explosion could result, covering all &
> sundry with nasty stuff.
>
Even I wouldn't do that.
You use caustic to braak up organics - especailly solidified fat - and
sulphuric to smash through limescale.
Mixed togrther they neutralise each other.
After a short period of pyrotechnics.
High school chemistry suggests that sodium sulphate and a LOT of heat will
be the result.
I am not sure if I know ANYTHING that sodium suplhate is good for..
If you had used brick acid (hydrochloric) you could at least have made some
salt....:-)
>> I am trying
>> the caustic soda today followed by boiling water and detergent.
>>
>> If that fails, how long should I wait before i move on to the acid?
>
> If the drain doesn't unblock, try the caustic again or use rods. There will
> still be a highly alkaline presense in the drain, so the acid will react
> with it.
>
When doing anything with caustic, once the blockage has cleared always
flush with gallons of fresh water. The public drains can handle mild alkali
in quantities better than a gob of conentrate going past, which can get
trapped and cause problems.
Despite dire warnings, I once again used castic and hot water to clear the
christmas grease out of the U bend, and can report that as usual I did not
end up in hospital.
Use of _boiling_ water from a kettle is a bit of a last resort, and you do
get superheated alkali vapour and a lot of splashing, so do that carefully
and test outside first with glasses and old clothes on so you know what to
expect.
Splashes on skin will burn and need washing with lots of cold water fairly
immediately. The skin will feel soapy, but no lasting damage ensures. Eyes
are a different matter. lots of hot water and off to A & E weher they can
at leats give you pain killers - corneas do redrow, but hurt like sin while
they do. Ive never had alkali in my eye, but I have had branches and
throrns scratch the cornea and cause an extremely painful condition, and
infection too.
Splashes on cloths bleach them totally and generally rot the fabric too.
.
The secret is to get hot caustic to the site and let it stay there and do
its work., If the drain is totally blocked, this may not work.
What I do in cases of dire ncessity is this.
I open up the sink plug, and fill it to the brim with solid castic soda
crystals.I keep adidng them until the whole drain is as full as it can get.
From a distance, I pour boiling water from a kettle on,. a little at a
time, at arms length, because it is a VIOLENT flash steam generator, and
100C caustic splashes HURT. This boiling caustic mixture seeps down, and
you can actually hear it boiling inside the pipes, and you get little
geyser type eruptions from the sink hole. Thse are usaully vile smelling,.
brown gunk and styill highly corrosive. Treat with *utmost* respect.
If the drain doesn't clearr, I repeat as often as is necesary until the
high concentration hot caustic has travelled to wherever the blockage is.
I'd say this brutal technique works 90% of the time.
However there are exceptions.
- I have had 'female waste' blocking low fall sewage systems outside to a
septic tank, with high ground water levels leadng to high tank levels. Here
I used reverse flushing from a manhole - pushed a hose up the pipe and
probed the turdiness until all the big bits had floated past.
- I have had an old toilet so scaled up that female waste and turds and bog
paper got stuck in its U bend.Here caustic made short work of the turds,
but some industrial acid from a friend - sulphuric IIRC - left in over
night dissolved what scale there was - we ended up pushing HUGE chunks of
turd and urine and scale composite down the drain in due course. Once that
was done the other problem did not reoccur. The loo also looked sparklingly
new again.
- I have seen tree roots push and fracture old clay pipes, and then get
inside. This is really bad news. It can happen with plastic too - the
joints may spring, and the roots then charge off towards this lovely
nutrient and water supply. Sometimes chemical attack helps keep it at bay,
but really, having dug one up in that condition, I'd say that is the only
real answer.
> Dave
The Natural Philosopher
Thats essentiall what I do to any drain the seems not to be draining as it
should.
With showers, I pull the thing up from the trap and clean that first.
Usually they work once all the pub(l)ic hairs are removed. But a dose of
hot casutic (I don't use boiling water unless I have to. Caustic geysers
are fun, but they do case localised damage to hands and clothes, and
sometimes othere localised objects).
All the bollocks about 'never add water to caustic, always do it the other
way' applies to chemistry lessons, where what you want is a safe reliable
way to dilute the stuff. And you are dealing with testosterone infused
teenage brains scarcely able to concentrate on what they are doing, and
whosw parents will sue if little jonny gets a nasty hurty splash on his
yummy tum.
WE are looking here for the most violent pressure generating way to get
scaldingly hot caustic in a soil pipe.
The only serious danger is to your eyes. That is really really serious, and
needs massive cold water instantly.
Otherwise skin gets scalded, and cold water will reduce that to a minor
itrritant in a minute.
Respect your caustic. Like your circular saw, your router, your chainsaw,
your consumer unit, its capable - not of killing you at least where the
others WILL..,but of damaging your eyes...but on a scale of dangerous
things I have done its well down the list ..
Acid is actually more dangerous.,especially in eyes.
Amminia is more instantly incapacitating.
The nearest I have cimne to killing msyelf is petrol used to start a
bonfire. Hint. Being 8 feet away on a hot summers day and ligthting the
match there to light a bit of paper to throw at it, is no help. Petrol
vapour is dense and heavy and travels a LONG way on te ground..
The second near miss was failing to let the router bit stop turning before
allowing it to swing back into my jeans. Fortunately the jeans stopped it a
couple of mm from the femoral artery. Jenas are more replaceable ...
Chuck keys left in lathes are another one I remember.
ALL DIY is potentially dangerous and also lethal. Falling off ladders,
electric shock, severe trauma from power tools - ask your A & E..hernias
from lifting sacks, back pain...tetanus and other raging infections from
scratches splinters and cuts in the garden...
Caustiic burns? I doubt they see one a year.
The Natural Philosopher
diesel is useless, Use celluose thinners.
That will dissolve the plstic pipes as well, with luck :-)
Oh, sulphuric and hydrochloric make short work of congealed PLASTER and
cement waste..
Stuart Noble
> I am not sure if I know ANYTHING that sodium suplhate is good for..
A mild laxative I believe (Glaubers Salts)
meow...@care2.com
> Acid is actually more dangerous.,especially in eyes.
I havent experienced either, but everything I've read seems to indicate
alkalis are much worse for eyes. Acid results in instant action and
surface damage. Alkali in the eye can be so innocuous at first that no
action gets taken, but it will eat right into the eyeball gradually,
and do major damage.
Caustic should be taken seriously re eye damage imho.
> ALL DIY is potentially dangerous and also lethal. Falling off ladders,
> electric shock, severe trauma from power tools - ask your A & E..hernias
> from lifting sacks, back pain...tetanus and other raging infections from
> scratches splinters and cuts in the garden...
yeah. The continuing popularity of diy is one of the things that
reminds me that all the nanny state's attempts to turn our world into a
safe powerles victim zone is just not the way a whole lot of people
want to go in life, and will not go.
NT
Andy Wade
> [The Nat. Phil. wrote]
>> I am not sure if I know ANYTHING that sodium suplhate is good for..
>
> A mild laxative I believe (Glaubers Salts)
Or you can add it to sulphuric acid to make an electrolyte for anodizing
aluminium.
--
Andy
raden
<stuart_no...@ntlworld.com> writes
>
>> I am not sure if I know ANYTHING that sodium suplhate is good for..
>
>A mild laxative I believe (Glaubers Salts)
Must be a placebo
--
geoff
david lang
>> I am not sure if I know ANYTHING that sodium suplhate is good for..
>
> A mild laxative I believe (Glaubers Salts)
I think mixing a strong acid with a strong alkali would have a stronger
effect :-)
Dave
Les Desser
Mawson <andrew@no_spam_please_mawson.org.uk> Sat, 31 Dec 2005 12:40:23
writes
>In my experience caustic soda is good for fatty deposits - kitchens
>etc, and sulphuric acid is good for hair balls - baths & showers.
>Beware that sulphuric acid will stain baths and shower trays so be very
>careful how you pour it.
Quote from <http://proterraonline.homestead.com/homecare_drains.html>
Although it is sold commercially as a drain cleaner, never use caustic
soda to open a drain. It will combine with the grease from soap or food
wastes to form an insoluble compound. Potash lye or caustic potash may
be added to finish opening a drain, but never use them on a completely
stopped up drain. They may take as long as overnight to work, and if you
ultimately have to open the trap, the chemicals would be a hazard.
Maybe US soap and food is different??
--
Les Desser
(The Reply-to address IS valid)
Stuart Noble
> In article <dp5u7n$c6e$1...@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>, Andrew
> Mawson <andrew@no_spam_please_mawson.org.uk> Sat, 31 Dec 2005 12:40:23
> writes
>
>> In my experience caustic soda is good for fatty deposits - kitchens
>> etc, and sulphuric acid is good for hair balls - baths & showers.
>> Beware that sulphuric acid will stain baths and shower trays so be
>> very careful how you pour it.
>
>
> Quote from <http://proterraonline.homestead.com/homecare_drains.html>
>
> Although it is sold commercially as a drain cleaner, never use caustic
> soda to open a drain. It will combine with the grease from soap or food
> wastes to form an insoluble compound.
The soap it forms will always be water soluble, but not always
instantly. A bar of soap would be pretty useless if it dissolved as
quickly as you want a blockage to disappear. Also, the soaps of fatty
acids are often much bulkier than the original oil/fat.
Nigel Molesworth
>> Although it is sold commercially as a drain cleaner, never use caustic
>> soda to open a drain. It will combine with the grease from soap or food
>> wastes to form an insoluble compound.
>
>The soap it forms will always be water soluble
Quite. Considering that soap is *made* from caustic soda and oil.
--
Nigel M
The Natural Philosopher
> In article <dp5u7n$c6e$1...@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>, Andrew
> Mawson <andrew@no_spam_please_mawson.org.uk> Sat, 31 Dec 2005 12:40:23
> writes
>
>>In my experience caustic soda is good for fatty deposits - kitchens
>>etc, and sulphuric acid is good for hair balls - baths & showers.
>>Beware that sulphuric acid will stain baths and shower trays so be very
>>careful how you pour it.
>
> Quote from <http://proterraonline.homestead.com/homecare_drains.html>
>
> Although it is sold commercially as a drain cleaner, never use caustic
> soda to open a drain. It will combine with the grease from soap or food
> wastes to form an insoluble compound.
That does not compute. I've used it many any times to dissolve fats - on
cookers and in the drains.
It may form insoluble saltst with other things however..but fat seems to be
teh most uysal cause.
> Potash lye or caustic potash may
> be added to finish opening a drain, but never use them on a completely
> stopped up drain. They may take as long as overnight to work, and if you
> ultimately have to open the trap, the chemicals would be a hazard.
>
> Maybe US soap and food is different??
I'd agree that a completely blocked drain is something to be wary of.
But I don't understand the rest of it. Soap IS |(or was ) sheep fat and
caustic...
Stuart Noble
Is/ was olive oil and caustic. Sheep fat is lanolin IIRC
Tim S
I though lanolin was sheep sebum, ie wool/skin grease?
Tim
Steve Firth
[snip]
>> I'd agree that a completely blocked drain is something to be wary of.
>>
>> But I don't understand the rest of it. Soap IS |(or was ) sheep fat and
>> caustic...
>
> Is/ was olive oil and caustic. Sheep fat is lanolin IIRC
Only Castille soap is mnade from olive oil and lye. Almost any old fat
will do for saponification and early soaps were made with animal fat.
There's a clue in the name "Palmolive" about the sources of the oils
they use for saponification.
I've found that rape oil is useless for soap making. Needs loads of lye
and produces a nasty, hard, very alkaline soap which is probably best
used for cleaning floors rather than hands.
The original soaps were supposed to be produced from the fat and woodash
run off from ritual sacrifices.
Nigel Molesworth
>The original soaps were supposed to be produced from the fat and woodash
>run off from ritual sacrifices.
Did they have to wash after using it?
--
Nigel M
Chris Bacon
Yup, lovely for the hands.... you can buy skin lotion
with lanolin in it, read the label. It's good.
Tim S
Yep, you can also buy pure lanolin, sold as "nipple cream" but very good
for babies with skin problems. Only source I could find was on teh
Internet, none of the local shops had heard of it.
Tim
Chris Bacon
> Chris Bacon wrote:
>>Tim S wrote:
>>>I though lanolin was sheep sebum, ie wool/skin grease?
>>
>>Yup, lovely for the hands.... you can buy skin lotion
>>with lanolin in it, read the label. It's good.
>
> Yep, you can also buy pure lanolin, sold as "nipple cream"
Good Lord. I am astounded.
Tim S
Heh. I should clarify that as:
nipple cream for breast feeding mothers;
not for inflatable rubber bondage perverts in Croydon.
Dave Fawthrop
It used to be extracted from Bradford's sewage at Esholt Sewage works.
Sadly the wool washing trade in Bradford is sadly almost dead, so ATM
no sidelines for Esholt :-(
--
Dave Fawthrop <dave hyphenologist co uk>
17,000 free e-books at Project Gutenberg! http://www.gutenberg.net
For Yorkshire Dialect go to www.hyphenologist.co.uk/songs/
raden
<t...@dionic.net> writes
<http://icsouthlondon.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0225croydon/tm_objectid=16
530374&method=full&siteid=53340&headline=-it-s-my-cash-box--not-a-bomb---
name_page.html>
--
geoff
Andy Dingley
wrote:
>> Although it is sold commercially as a drain cleaner, never use caustic
>> soda to open a drain. It will combine with the grease from soap or food
>> wastes to form an insoluble compound.
>
>That does not compute. I've used it many any times to dissolve fats - on
>cookers and in the drains.
It's generally a bad idea to use chemicals on a _totally_ blocked drain.
If it's _that_ bad, then there's something physical down there and
you're just going to have to use physical methods to shift it.
One of the most effective toilet blockers known to man is toilet roll
and a bar of soap. They're both perfectly soluble (sic) in small
quantities, but put a whole bar down there and it just ain't going to
wash away. "Soluble" only works in a sufficiency of solvent to do it -
a grease blob in a narrow pipe is perfectly capable of resisting
dissolution if there's no flow, no matter how much caustic soda you get
to it.
Andy Dingley
>>> Yep, you can also buy pure lanolin, sold as "nipple cream"
>>
>> Good Lord. I am astounded.
>
>Heh. I should clarify that as:
>
>nipple cream for breast feeding mothers;
Cheaper as "Bag Balm" though. The mothers in that case are cows
Bat's #1 Law: Any obscure product of interest to uk.d-i-y readers is
probably bought more cheaply and in larger portions from a farmer's shop
than from Boots.
>not for inflatable rubber bondage perverts in Croydon.
Do BAE _have_ an office in Croydon?
Andy Dingley
wrote:
>Hmm but do you reckon he's going to able to buy sulphuric acid stronger
>than 1M anywhere?
Yes, as drain cleaner. It's my standard source for cheap conc. H2SO4
My favourite brand is from "Thaumaturgy Ltd." Now there's a brandname
to trust!
The Natural Philosopher
I think thats what he said. What I said was that mixing lanolin and caustic
gives a decent soap.
The Natural Philosopher
> On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 13:46:09 +0000, Chris Bacon wrote:
>
>> Tim S wrote:
>>> Chris Bacon wrote:
>>>>Tim S wrote:
>>>>>I though lanolin was sheep sebum, ie wool/skin grease?
>>>>
>>>>Yup, lovely for the hands.... you can buy skin lotion
>>>>with lanolin in it, read the label. It's good.
>>>
>>> Yep, you can also buy pure lanolin, sold as "nipple cream"
>>
>> Good Lord. I am astounded.
>
> Heh. I should clarify that as:
>
> nipple cream for breast feeding mothers;
What about for breast feeding babies?
Tim S
I usually read "fat" as internal fat, lanolin I would usually think of as
a grease.
Most fats (internal or external) make reasonable soap when mixed
with caustic though, don't they (if Fight Club is to be believed)? We did
the soap thing at school, though the result wasn't very convincing
(caustic scunge IIRC).
Cheers
Tim
Andy Dingley
>I usually read "fat" as internal fat, lanolin I would usually think of as
>a grease.
Grease is (prettty much by definition, for 20th century technical
definitions) some mixture of soaps and fats. Even stuff you put in wheel
bearings is, although the definition of "soap" is stretching it a bit
here - it means a saponified oily stuff, more than anything you might
think of for washing with. Even original formulation napalm is a grease
- a mixture of soap and oil, so as to thicken it and make it behave like
a thick grease.
Lanolin won't truly be a grease unless your sheep have been rolling in
ashes (and if they're loose fleeces, they may well have been). Things
feel "greasy" (as opposed to merely fatty) because they have had some
saponification going on. Don't stick your hands in caustic soda, but
washing soda or potash lyes have their distinctive greasy feeling
because the oils in your skin are getting saponified.
Stuart Noble
> Grease is (prettty much by definition, for 20th century technical
> definitions) some mixture of soaps and fats.
> Even stuff you put in wheel
> bearings is
Oil derived I think. Same family as petroleum jelly, paraffin wax etc.
> Things feel "greasy" (as opposed to merely fatty) because they have had some
> saponification going on.
Only things containing fatty acids can be saponified i.e. not petroleum
based substances.
John Schmitt
wrote:
> Lanolin won't truly be a grease unless your sheep have been rolling in
> ashes (and if they're loose fleeces, they may well have been). Things
> feel "greasy" (as opposed to merely fatty) because they have had some
> saponification going on. Don't stick your hands in caustic soda, but
> washing soda or potash lyes have their distinctive greasy feeling
> because the oils in your skin are getting saponified.
More importantly your skin proteins are being hydrolysed. Because caustics
do not denature protein, they penetrate flesh more deeply than the strong
mineral acids (I excluse HF because it is technically a weak acid). 0.88
ammonia is another surprisingly nasty customer. Alcoholic solutions of
sodium and potassium hydroxides go for flesh in a *big* way. Above all
avoid getting the stuff in your eyes, it will penetrate to the retina and
permanently damage it.
John Schmitt
--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Andy Dingley
<stuart_no...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>Only things containing fatty acids can be saponified i.e. not petroleum
>based substances.
You can make fatty acids from petroleum products too. "Fat" is a valid
chemical term, not necessarily implying animal origin.
The family business used to be haulage. We moved tons of "tall oil fatty
acid" (looked like paraffin wax crumbs) from Stanlow when I was a kid.
The name always made me laugh.
Stuart Noble
> On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 16:15:11 GMT, Stuart Noble
> <stuart_no...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Only things containing fatty acids can be saponified i.e. not petroleum
>>based substances.
>
>
> You can make fatty acids from petroleum products too.
Can you? Not being sarcastic, but I'd like to know how.
>"Fat" is a valid
> chemical term, not necessarily implying animal origin.
Can be vegetable, but I don't see how it could be of mineral origin.
> The family business used to be haulage. We moved tons of "tall oil fatty
> acid" (looked like paraffin wax crumbs) from Stanlow when I was a kid.
> The name always made me laugh.
That's vegetable based though.
Helen Deborah Vecht
> >
> > But I don't understand the rest of it. Soap IS |(or was ) sheep fat and
> > caustic...
> Is/ was olive oil and caustic. Sheep fat is lanolin IIRC
Soaps are made from olive oil (sodium oleate), palm oil (sodium
palmitate), sheep fat (sodium talloate/stearate) etc.
Lanolin is sheep wool fat IIRC.
--
Helen D. Vecht: helen...@zetnet.co.uk
Edgware.
Helen Deborah Vecht
> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> > Acid is actually more dangerous.,especially in eyes.
> I havent experienced either, but everything I've read seems to indicate
> alkalis are much worse for eyes. Acid results in instant action and
> surface damage. Alkali in the eye can be so innocuous at first that no
> action gets taken, but it will eat right into the eyeball gradually,
> and do major damage.
> Caustic should be taken seriously re eye damage imho.
Mine too. I've only had 20 years experience as a doctor in Accident &
Emergenccy, so YMMV...
Helen Deborah Vecht
Helen Deborah Vecht
> ALL DIY is potentially dangerous and also lethal. Falling off ladders,
> electric shock, severe trauma from power tools - ask your A & E..hernias
> from lifting sacks, back pain...tetanus and other raging infections from
> scratches splinters and cuts in the garden...
> Caustiic burns? I doubt they see one a year.
Not true. There's caustic in the eyes -very nasty- delayed skin burns,
cement burns (alkali burns as well)...
Helen Deborah Vecht
> On Sun, 1 Jan 2006 22:02:58 +0000, Les Desser wrote:
> > In article <dp5u7n$c6e$1...@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>, Andrew
> > Mawson <andrew@no_spam_please_mawson.org.uk> Sat, 31 Dec 2005 12:40:23
> > writes
> >
> >>In my experience caustic soda is good for fatty deposits - kitchens
> >>etc, and sulphuric acid is good for hair balls - baths & showers.
> >>Beware that sulphuric acid will stain baths and shower trays so be very
> >>careful how you pour it.
> >
> > Quote from <http://proterraonline.homestead.com/homecare_drains.html>
> >
> > Although it is sold commercially as a drain cleaner, never use caustic
> > soda to open a drain. It will combine with the grease from soap or food
> > wastes to form an insoluble compound.
> That does not compute. I've used it many any times to dissolve fats - on
> cookers and in the drains.
> It may form insoluble saltst with other things however..but fat seems to be
> teh most uysal cause.
Are you sure?
There are almost no insoluble sodium salts of anything, are there?
> > Potash lye or caustic potash may
> > be added to finish opening a drain, but never use them on a completely
> > stopped up drain. They may take as long as overnight to work, and if you
> > ultimately have to open the trap, the chemicals would be a hazard.
> >
> > Maybe US soap and food is different??
> I'd agree that a completely blocked drain is something to be wary of.
> But I don't understand the rest of it. Soap IS |(or was ) sheep fat and
> caustic...
Indeed.
raden
<Joh...@mdx.ac.uk> writes
>On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 15:15:41 -0000, Andy Dingley
><din...@codesmiths.com> wrote:
>
>> Lanolin won't truly be a grease unless your sheep have been rolling in
>> ashes (and if they're loose fleeces, they may well have been). Things
>> feel "greasy" (as opposed to merely fatty) because they have had some
>> saponification going on. Don't stick your hands in caustic soda, but
>> washing soda or potash lyes have their distinctive greasy feeling
>> because the oils in your skin are getting saponified.
>
>More importantly your skin proteins are being hydrolysed. Because
>caustics do not denature protein, they penetrate flesh more deeply
>than the strong mineral acids (I excluse HF because it is technically
>a weak acid). 0.88 ammonia is another surprisingly nasty customer.
So what's the long term consequence of making all that ammonium
tri-iodide as a kid ?
>Alcoholic solutions of sodium and potassium hydroxides go for flesh in
>a *big* way. Above all avoid getting the stuff in your eyes, it will
>penetrate to the retina and permanently damage it.
>
>John Schmitt
>
--
geoff
David
<%steve%@malloc.co.uk> writes
>Steve S wrote:
>
>> <snip>
>>
>> Similarly, conc. sulphuric gets very hot when diluted. If attempting to
>> dilute sulphuric acid *always* add acid to water, *never* the other way
>> round. That way, if it boils and spits you are more likely to get splashed
>> with dilute acid. Eye protection etc. is a must.
>
>Hmm but do you reckon he's going to able to buy sulphuric acid stronger
>hydrochloric acid for pavement cleaning.
bought some 96% Sulphuric from the plumbing merchants last week, cleared
the blockage a treat
--
David
raden
Vecht <helen...@zetnet.co.uk> writes
20 years in A&E ...
--
geoff
david lang
> So what's the long term consequence of making all that ammonium
> tri-iodide as a kid ?
Is that the stuff that went bang on impact?
I recall mixing potassium permanganate with something to make a paste that
exploded on contact once dry.
Dave
david lang
> Sounds like you're, as they say, a bugger for punishment
>
> 20 years in A&E ...
These people are a strange breed. My daughter is an EMT2 with London
Ambulance - cant wait to get to work in the morning. Weird :-)
Dave
Tim S
> raden wrote:
>
>> So what's the long term consequence of making all that ammonium
>> tri-iodide as a kid ?
>
> Is that the stuff that went bang on impact?
It was nitrogen tri-iodide, and yes, it goes bang very easily :)
made from ammonia solution (conc) and aqueous iodine solution. Fairly
stable when wet - allegedly fun to poke the paste into people's door lock
and wait for it to dry out.
Ooops, I must be a terrorist... If you want a really big bang, try (or
don't) nitrogen tri-chloride. It's a liquid. First bloke to make it ended
up minus an eye and some fingers.
> I recall mixing potassium permanganate with something to make a paste that
> exploded on contact once dry.
pot permang + drop of glycerine was fun too. Goes up by itself after a
minute or two.
Tim
raden
lang <davi...@nospamblueyonder.co.uk> writes
>raden wrote:
>
>> So what's the long term consequence of making all that ammonium
>> tri-iodide as a kid ?
>
>Is that the stuff that went bang on impact?
yes
>
>I recall mixing potassium permanganate with something to make a paste that
>exploded on contact once dry.
>
Prolly more girly
--
geoff
raden
<t...@dionic.net> writes
>On Thu, 05 Jan 2006 00:44:50 +0000, david lang wrote:
>
>> raden wrote:
>>
>>> So what's the long term consequence of making all that ammonium
>>> tri-iodide as a kid ?
>>
>> Is that the stuff that went bang on impact?
>
>It was nitrogen tri-iodide, and yes, it goes bang very easily :)
>made from ammonia solution (conc) and aqueous iodine solution. Fairly
>stable when wet -
Initially, yes,
but it becomes unstable after a time ( a couple of days)
I once had about 1/2 " under water in a jam jar go off in my hand
I ended up with the screw thread still intact and a violet stain on the
ceiling and floor
and another stain which I'm not willing to discuss
scary, it was ...
>allegedly fun to poke the paste into people's door lock
>and wait for it to dry out.
>
>Ooops, I must be a terrorist... If you want a really big bang, try (or
>don't) nitrogen tri-chloride. It's a liquid. First bloke to make it ended
>up minus an eye and some fingers.
>
>> I recall mixing potassium permanganate with something to make a paste that
>> exploded on contact once dry.
>
>pot permang + drop of glycerine was fun too. Goes up by itself after a
>minute or two.
>
>Tim
--
geoff
Andy Dingley
<davi...@nospamblueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>These people are a strange breed. My daughter is an EMT2 with London
>Ambulance - cant wait to get to work in the morning. Weird :-)
New blog you might like to look at
http://www.neenaw.co.uk/
(I liked the "Bad Samaritan" story)
DJC
> I recall mixing potassium permanganate with something to make a paste that
> exploded on contact once dry.
Potasium Permangenate in a liitle heap, make holes in middle as if
mixing cement, pour in glycerine, self-igniting volcano?
--
David Clark
$message_body_include ="PLES RING IF AN RNSR IS REQIRD"
Douglas de Lacey
> david lang wrote:
>
>> I recall mixing potassium permanganate with something to make a paste
>> that exploded on contact once dry.
>
>
> Potasium Permangenate in a liitle heap, make holes in middle as if
> mixing cement, pour in glycerine, self-igniting volcano?
>
Yes indeed, but David's sounds more like ammonium iodide. As often
painted on school assembly hall floors before the Final Assembly in my
youth... Perhaps, like me, he did both?
Douglas de Lacey
Les Desser
<din...@codesmiths.com> Thu, 5 Jan 2006 13:10:44 writes
>New blog you might like to look at http://www.neenaw.co.uk/
Couldn't stop reading! Thanks.
--
Les Desser
(The Reply-to address IS valid)
skeesk
--
For full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy/caustic-soda-vs-one-shot-sulphuric-acid-225916-.htm
Chris Bacon
> Will One shot dissolve a plastic rim toilet block holder?
> We think it’s
> that constantly blocking the toilet. We’ve had the drains cleared and a
> camera go down ( maybe not right up to the U bend) and it’s still blocked
a) Grappling for it with a plumbers' snake.
b) Removing the WC bowl and retrieving it.
newshound
Although people sometimes think of pedestals as immovable objects, they
may not be difficult to remove. I always screw mine down with stainless
steel screws. The amount of effort depends on the age of the
installation, hopefully the outlet is not cemented into a cast iron soil
pipe. If it has an integral cistern, now is the time to fit a flexible
hose with service valve into the water connection, if it does not
already have one.
Andrew
removed the latter (ceramic) it took me by surprise.