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Car body repair; Best way to treat bare steel prior to filler-primer?
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AL_n
Aug 22, 2012, 2:04:56 PM8/22/12
to
There seems to be a lot of conflicting opinions on this, but I'd eppreciate
your views on what is the best way to treat bare steel, pror to applying
filler-primer, when affecting a bodywork repair on a car, (having removed
rust from an area and having abraded it, as far as possible, down to bare,
steel).
I know there are various Jenolite-type products, and someone suggested a
zinc-based primer. What are your views? My primary concern is to inhibit
rust, of course.
I once read the results of an experiment which seemd to conclude that
Hemmerite was one of the best rust inhibitors of all, but I don't know how
suitable Hammerite would be in this type of application...
Many thanks,
Al
Nthkentman
Aug 22, 2012, 2:20:19 PM8/22/12
to
"AL_n" <fgdf...@fghfghfg.com> wrote in message
news:XnsA0B7C1D3...@130.133.4.11...
>
> There seems to be a lot of conflicting opinions on this, but I'd
> eppreciate
> your views on what is the best way to treat bare steel, pror to applying
> filler-primer, when affecting a bodywork repair on a car, (having removed
> rust from an area and having abraded it, as far as possible, down to bare,
> steel).
That's all you need to do.
> There seems to be a lot of conflicting opinions on this, but I'd
> eppreciate
> your views on what is the best way to treat bare steel, pror to applying
> filler-primer, when affecting a bodywork repair on a car, (having removed
> rust from an area and having abraded it, as far as possible, down to bare,
> steel).
> I know there are various Jenolite-type products, and someone suggested a
> zinc-based primer. What are your views? My primary concern is to inhibit
> rust, of course.
>
> I once read the results of an experiment which seemd to conclude that
> Hemmerite was one of the best rust inhibitors of all, but I don't know how
> suitable Hammerite would be in this type of application...
Andy Dingley
Aug 22, 2012, 2:15:45 PM8/22/12
to
On Aug 22, 7:04 pm, "AL_n" <fgdfg...@fghfghfg.com> wrote:
> bare steel, pror to applying filler-primer,
Bare steel. It's a primer.
> bare steel, pror to applying filler-primer,
(clean, brush and de-oil it though. If it's already rusty, then
phosphoric acid)
For priming under paint, then a zinc-based primer over that. Davids
182 is good.
Theo Markettos
Aug 22, 2012, 3:15:06 PM8/22/12
to
Nthkentman <nthke...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> "AL_n" <fgdf...@fghfghfg.com> wrote in message
> news:XnsA0B7C1D3...@130.133.4.11...
>
> "AL_n" <fgdf...@fghfghfg.com> wrote in message
> news:XnsA0B7C1D3...@130.133.4.11...
> > I once read the results of an experiment which seemd to conclude that
> > Hemmerite was one of the best rust inhibitors of all, but I don't know how
> > suitable Hammerite would be in this type of application...
>
> Nah....Just Nah
Indeed. Hammerite tends to get air bubbles in it, which then cause pinholes
> > Hemmerite was one of the best rust inhibitors of all, but I don't know how
> > suitable Hammerite would be in this type of application...
>
> Nah....Just Nah
in the finish. Water gets in, gets trapped underneath the paint, and after
a while it's as if you never painted it (apart from the flakes of
Hammerite-coated rust on the ground, of course).
Theo
NT
Aug 22, 2012, 4:50:04 PM8/22/12
to
On Aug 22, 7:04 pm, "AL_n" <fgdfg...@fghfghfg.com> wrote:
> There seems to be a lot of conflicting opinions on this, but I'd eppreciate
> your views on what is the best way to treat bare steel, pror to applying
> filler-primer, when affecting a bodywork repair on a car, (having removed
> rust from an area and having abraded it, as far as possible, down to bare,
> steel).
>
> I know there are various Jenolite-type products, and someone suggested a
> zinc-based primer. What are your views? My primary concern is to inhibit
> rust, of course.
thats what the resin based filler does. You won't find better paint.
> your views on what is the best way to treat bare steel, pror to applying
> filler-primer, when affecting a bodywork repair on a car, (having removed
> rust from an area and having abraded it, as far as possible, down to bare,
> steel).
>
> I know there are various Jenolite-type products, and someone suggested a
> zinc-based primer. What are your views? My primary concern is to inhibit
> rust, of course.
> I once read the results of an experiment which seemd to conclude that
> Hemmerite was one of the best rust inhibitors of all, but I don't know how
> suitable Hammerite would be in this type of application...
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Al
NT
Dave Plowman (News)
Aug 22, 2012, 6:10:36 PM8/22/12
to
In article <XnsA0B7C1D3...@130.133.4.11>,
> I know there are various Jenolite-type products, and someone suggested a
> zinc-based primer. What are your views? My primary concern is to
> inhibit rust, of course.
> I once read the results of an experiment which seemd to conclude that
> Hemmerite was one of the best rust inhibitors of all, but I don't know
> how suitable Hammerite would be in this type of application...
Hammerite is a con...
--
*Why is the time of day with the slowest traffic called rush hour?
Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
AL_n <fgdf...@fghfghfg.com> wrote:
> There seems to be a lot of conflicting opinions on this, but I'd
> eppreciate your views on what is the best way to treat bare steel, pror
> to applying filler-primer, when affecting a bodywork repair on a car,
> (having removed rust from an area and having abraded it, as far as
> possible, down to bare, steel).
A decent acid etch primer. I like Upol.
> There seems to be a lot of conflicting opinions on this, but I'd
> eppreciate your views on what is the best way to treat bare steel, pror
> to applying filler-primer, when affecting a bodywork repair on a car,
> (having removed rust from an area and having abraded it, as far as
> possible, down to bare, steel).
> I know there are various Jenolite-type products, and someone suggested a
> zinc-based primer. What are your views? My primary concern is to
> inhibit rust, of course.
> I once read the results of an experiment which seemd to conclude that
> Hemmerite was one of the best rust inhibitors of all, but I don't know
> how suitable Hammerite would be in this type of application...
--
*Why is the time of day with the slowest traffic called rush hour?
Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
NT
Aug 22, 2012, 6:30:23 PM8/22/12
to
On Aug 22, 11:10 pm, "Dave Plowman (News)" <d...@davenoise.co.uk>
wrote:
> In article <XnsA0B7C1D368303zzz...@130.133.4.11>,
NT
wrote:
> In article <XnsA0B7C1D368303zzz...@130.133.4.11>,
> AL_n <fgdfg...@fghfghfg.com> wrote:
>
> > There seems to be a lot of conflicting opinions on this, but I'd
> > eppreciate your views on what is the best way to treat bare steel, pror
> > to applying filler-primer, when affecting a bodywork repair on a car,
> > (having removed rust from an area and having abraded it, as far as
> > possible, down to bare, steel).
>
> A decent acid etch primer. I like Upol.
>
> > I know there are various Jenolite-type products, and someone suggested a
> > zinc-based primer. What are your views? My primary concern is to
> > inhibit rust, of course.
> > I once read the results of an experiment which seemd to conclude that
> > Hemmerite was one of the best rust inhibitors of all, but I don't know
> > how suitable Hammerite would be in this type of application...
>
> Hammerite is a con...
What type of acid? What strength?
>
> > There seems to be a lot of conflicting opinions on this, but I'd
> > eppreciate your views on what is the best way to treat bare steel, pror
> > to applying filler-primer, when affecting a bodywork repair on a car,
> > (having removed rust from an area and having abraded it, as far as
> > possible, down to bare, steel).
>
> A decent acid etch primer. I like Upol.
>
> > I know there are various Jenolite-type products, and someone suggested a
> > zinc-based primer. What are your views? My primary concern is to
> > inhibit rust, of course.
> > I once read the results of an experiment which seemd to conclude that
> > Hemmerite was one of the best rust inhibitors of all, but I don't know
> > how suitable Hammerite would be in this type of application...
>
> Hammerite is a con...
NT
AL_n
Aug 23, 2012, 7:53:52 AM8/23/12
to
"Dave Plowman (News)" <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in
news:52c3702...@davenoise.co.uk:
>
> A decent acid etch primer. I like Upol.
>
>> I know there are various Jenolite-type products, and someone suggested a
>> zinc-based primer. What are your views? My primary concern is to
>> inhibit rust, of course.
>
>> I once read the results of an experiment which seemd to conclude that
>> Hemmerite was one of the best rust inhibitors of all, but I don't know
>> how suitable Hammerite would be in this type of application...
>
> Hammerite is a con...
Thanks for the responses. It's funny, but I've always thought etching
primer to be a con. I used to use it when I was doing a lot of refinishing
work in a certain factory in the 1980s. I found that after it was cured,
you could scratch it off as easily as most other paints and primers. OK, it
might roughen the surface of the steel very slightly, on a microscopic
level, but any abrasive paper does that far more effectively.
I think (not sure) it was Which Magazine that tested a number of rust
inhibitors, many years ago, and found Hammerite to be exceptionally
effective. I've found it to be good too, but have never used it of car body
repairs as a primer.
Al
news:52c3702...@davenoise.co.uk:
>
> A decent acid etch primer. I like Upol.
>
>> I know there are various Jenolite-type products, and someone suggested a
>> zinc-based primer. What are your views? My primary concern is to
>> inhibit rust, of course.
>
>> I once read the results of an experiment which seemd to conclude that
>> Hemmerite was one of the best rust inhibitors of all, but I don't know
>> how suitable Hammerite would be in this type of application...
>
> Hammerite is a con...
primer to be a con. I used to use it when I was doing a lot of refinishing
work in a certain factory in the 1980s. I found that after it was cured,
you could scratch it off as easily as most other paints and primers. OK, it
might roughen the surface of the steel very slightly, on a microscopic
level, but any abrasive paper does that far more effectively.
I think (not sure) it was Which Magazine that tested a number of rust
inhibitors, many years ago, and found Hammerite to be exceptionally
effective. I've found it to be good too, but have never used it of car body
repairs as a primer.
Al
AL_n
Aug 23, 2012, 7:58:09 AM8/23/12
to
Andy Dingley <din...@codesmiths.com> wrote in news:38fb4cbf-b4e6-489c-
9db7-5d7...@e29g2000vbm.googlegroups.com:
> For priming under paint, then a zinc-based primer over that. Davids
> 182 is good.
Thanks.. What about red oxide primer? Most people used to swear that was
the best primer to inhibit rust. Is zinc-based now considered better?
Al
9db7-5d7...@e29g2000vbm.googlegroups.com:
> For priming under paint, then a zinc-based primer over that. Davids
> 182 is good.
the best primer to inhibit rust. Is zinc-based now considered better?
Al
Dave Plowman (News)
Aug 23, 2012, 8:58:52 AM8/23/12
to
In article <XnsA0B882E9...@130.133.4.11>,
as regards adhesion, that would need to be checked very much later, rather
than just after it's cured.
> I think (not sure) it was Which Magazine that tested a number of rust
> inhibitors, many years ago, and found Hammerite to be exceptionally
> effective. I've found it to be good too, but have never used it of car
> body repairs as a primer.
I painted a wrought iron fence in sections using Black Hammerite,
Smoothrite and ordinary Wicks gloss - all direct to the steel. The Wicks
gloss lasted longer - and of course was very much cheaper.
You might also have problems getting car paint to stick to Hammerite -
without using a sealer coat. And of course the rough finish it produces is
exactly what you don't want for a decent final finish.
--
*A hangover is the wrath of grapes.
AL_n <fgdf...@fghfghfg.com> wrote:
> Thanks for the responses. It's funny, but I've always thought etching
> primer to be a con. I used to use it when I was doing a lot of
> refinishing work in a certain factory in the 1980s. I found that after
> it was cured, you could scratch it off as easily as most other paints
> and primers. OK, it might roughen the surface of the steel very
> slightly, on a microscopic level, but any abrasive paper does that far
> more effectively.
It's what most pro body shops use on bare metal these days, I'm told. But
> Thanks for the responses. It's funny, but I've always thought etching
> primer to be a con. I used to use it when I was doing a lot of
> refinishing work in a certain factory in the 1980s. I found that after
> it was cured, you could scratch it off as easily as most other paints
> and primers. OK, it might roughen the surface of the steel very
> slightly, on a microscopic level, but any abrasive paper does that far
> more effectively.
as regards adhesion, that would need to be checked very much later, rather
than just after it's cured.
> I think (not sure) it was Which Magazine that tested a number of rust
> inhibitors, many years ago, and found Hammerite to be exceptionally
> effective. I've found it to be good too, but have never used it of car
> body repairs as a primer.
Smoothrite and ordinary Wicks gloss - all direct to the steel. The Wicks
gloss lasted longer - and of course was very much cheaper.
You might also have problems getting car paint to stick to Hammerite -
without using a sealer coat. And of course the rough finish it produces is
exactly what you don't want for a decent final finish.
--
*A hangover is the wrath of grapes.
djornsk
Aug 23, 2012, 10:06:14 AM8/23/12
to
30 years ago some purists swore by it for old vehicle restorations.
A quick search produced
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SD98LDc0GAI
so I bet it is still going and still worth a mention when someone is
looking to do a lasting repair.
j
NT
Aug 23, 2012, 11:53:25 AM8/23/12
to
On Aug 23, 12:53 pm, "AL_n" <fgdfg...@fghfghfg.com> wrote:
> "Dave Plowman (News)" <d...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote innews:52c3702...@davenoise.co.uk:
I once took Which seriously too.
NT
> "Dave Plowman (News)" <d...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote innews:52c3702...@davenoise.co.uk:
NT
fred
Aug 23, 2012, 12:22:16 PM8/23/12
to
In article <XnsA0B882E9...@130.133.4.11>, AL_n
<fgdf...@fghfghfg.com> writes
branded products. They do make a rust treatment solution that I have
seen but have no experience of, I saw it supplied in concentrate form in
a 2l or so container and the instructions required it to be diluted 10:1
with water. It was used to dissolve rust on parts by long term
immersion. No idea what the ingredients are but perhaps the usual
phosphoric acid base of other similar products.
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .
Dave Plowman (News)
Aug 23, 2012, 1:28:24 PM8/23/12
to
In article <HJ7xeCR4ilNQFwDK@y.z>,
their name.
--
*I don't know what your problem is, but I'll bet it's hard to pronounce
fred <n...@for.mail> wrote:
> I think a few may be mixing up hammerite paint with other hammerite
> branded products. They do make a rust treatment solution that I have
> seen but have no experience of, I saw it supplied in concentrate form in
> a 2l or so container and the instructions required it to be diluted 10:1
> with water. It was used to dissolve rust on parts by long term
> immersion. No idea what the ingredients are but perhaps the usual
> phosphoric acid base of other similar products.
IIRC Hammerite (now) own Jenolite. But seem to be re-branding that to
> I think a few may be mixing up hammerite paint with other hammerite
> branded products. They do make a rust treatment solution that I have
> seen but have no experience of, I saw it supplied in concentrate form in
> a 2l or so container and the instructions required it to be diluted 10:1
> with water. It was used to dissolve rust on parts by long term
> immersion. No idea what the ingredients are but perhaps the usual
> phosphoric acid base of other similar products.
their name.
--
*I don't know what your problem is, but I'll bet it's hard to pronounce
RJS
Aug 23, 2012, 3:11:56 PM8/23/12
to
On Thursday, August 23, 2012 12:53:52 PM UTC+1, AL_n wrote:
>
> > Hammerite is a con...
>
>
>
> Thanks for the responses. It's funny, but I've always thought etching
>
> primer to be a con. I used to use it when I was doing a lot of refinishing
>
> work in a certain factory in the 1980s. I found that after it was cured,
>
> you could scratch it off as easily as most other paints and primers. OK, it
>
> might roughen the surface of the steel very slightly, on a microscopic
>
> level, but any abrasive paper does that far more effectively.
>
>
>
> I think (not sure) it was Which Magazine that tested a number of rust
>
> inhibitors, many years ago, and found Hammerite to be exceptionally
>
> effective. I've found it to be good too, but have never used it of car body
>
> repairs as a primer.
>
>
>
> Al
Never (ever) found Hammerite to be worth a toss. The best rust inhibitor/primer is Bonda Primer. Not easy to find but Google BondaGlass Voss for details of the maker. I painted my trailer with it over 1o years ago and there is NO rust on it.
>
> > Hammerite is a con...
>
>
>
> Thanks for the responses. It's funny, but I've always thought etching
>
> primer to be a con. I used to use it when I was doing a lot of refinishing
>
> work in a certain factory in the 1980s. I found that after it was cured,
>
> you could scratch it off as easily as most other paints and primers. OK, it
>
> might roughen the surface of the steel very slightly, on a microscopic
>
> level, but any abrasive paper does that far more effectively.
>
>
>
> I think (not sure) it was Which Magazine that tested a number of rust
>
> inhibitors, many years ago, and found Hammerite to be exceptionally
>
> effective. I've found it to be good too, but have never used it of car body
>
> repairs as a primer.
>
>
>
> Al
For lots of info on car repair look at Frost http://www.frost.co.uk
The Other Mike
Aug 23, 2012, 6:07:18 PM8/23/12
to
On 23 Aug 2012 11:53:52 GMT, "AL_n" <fgdf...@fghfghfg.com> wrote:
> It's funny, but I've always thought etching
>primer to be a con. I used to use it when I was doing a lot of refinishing
>work in a certain factory in the 1980s. I found that after it was cured,
>you could scratch it off as easily as most other paints and primers. OK, it
>might roughen the surface of the steel very slightly, on a microscopic
>level, but any abrasive paper does that far more effectively.
A number of car manufacturers, in conjunction with their preferred paint
> It's funny, but I've always thought etching
>primer to be a con. I used to use it when I was doing a lot of refinishing
>work in a certain factory in the 1980s. I found that after it was cured,
>you could scratch it off as easily as most other paints and primers. OK, it
>might roughen the surface of the steel very slightly, on a microscopic
>level, but any abrasive paper does that far more effectively.
supplier, specify the complete paint process for bodywork. Etching primers
figure in a lot of them - for instance all the vehicles with 'galvanised'
bodywork such as Porsche and Audi from the mid 90's required etching primers or
the subsequent layers fell off. If I recall correctly the only surface
preparation allowed was an extremely fine grade of Scotchbrite and a wipe on
wipe off solvent. Normal abrasive paper was off limits and panels were
completely replaced rather than part repaired.
--
Andrew Gabriel
Aug 25, 2012, 2:58:39 PM8/25/12
to
In article <XnsA0B7C1D3...@130.133.4.11>,
mini some decades ago, so I had plenty of rust repairs to do. ;-)
I used Zinc primer (Davids Zinc 182, since I still have a can of it),
on the basis that it was as near to galvanising the steel as I could
do. Then on top of that went filler (if I was using any, or for small
areas to be filled, I just built up with the Zinc primer, sanding back
all except the last coat).
I never had one of these areas rust again. OTOH, I had previously
found the red lead oxide paint to be useless as preventing re-rusting,
which is why I looked for something else.
> I once read the results of an experiment which seemd to conclude that
> Hemmerite was one of the best rust inhibitors of all, but I don't know how
> suitable Hammerite would be in this type of application...
No presonal experience, although I've heard it's good to paint on
when you haven't managed to get rid of all the rust.
--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
"AL_n" <fgdf...@fghfghfg.com> writes:
>
> There seems to be a lot of conflicting opinions on this, but I'd eppreciate
> your views on what is the best way to treat bare steel, pror to applying
> filler-primer, when affecting a bodywork repair on a car, (having removed
> rust from an area and having abraded it, as far as possible, down to bare,
> steel).
>
> I know there are various Jenolite-type products, and someone suggested a
> zinc-based primer. What are your views? My primary concern is to inhibit
> rust, of course.
It's a long time since I've had to do this, but I used to own a
>
> There seems to be a lot of conflicting opinions on this, but I'd eppreciate
> your views on what is the best way to treat bare steel, pror to applying
> filler-primer, when affecting a bodywork repair on a car, (having removed
> rust from an area and having abraded it, as far as possible, down to bare,
> steel).
>
> I know there are various Jenolite-type products, and someone suggested a
> zinc-based primer. What are your views? My primary concern is to inhibit
> rust, of course.
mini some decades ago, so I had plenty of rust repairs to do. ;-)
I used Zinc primer (Davids Zinc 182, since I still have a can of it),
on the basis that it was as near to galvanising the steel as I could
do. Then on top of that went filler (if I was using any, or for small
areas to be filled, I just built up with the Zinc primer, sanding back
all except the last coat).
I never had one of these areas rust again. OTOH, I had previously
found the red lead oxide paint to be useless as preventing re-rusting,
which is why I looked for something else.
> I once read the results of an experiment which seemd to conclude that
> Hemmerite was one of the best rust inhibitors of all, but I don't know how
> suitable Hammerite would be in this type of application...
when you haven't managed to get rid of all the rust.
--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
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