Insulating a swimming pool

14 views
Skip to first unread message

Mr Sandman

unread,
Jan 23, 2009, 4:54:11 PM1/23/09
to
Obviously popping some polystyrene board down the side of a pool as its
being back filled takes care of the sides, but is there any thing strong
enough to stand the weight of a pool 7 foot deep? I.e., is there a product
that i can install in the hole that i can build the pool on?

any suggestions?

Steve

MikeS

unread,
Jan 23, 2009, 5:05:38 PM1/23/09
to

"Mr Sandman" <sadv...@dcvs.com> wrote in message
news:pqWdncunNbgToefU...@posted.plusnet...

Few layers of Kingspan?


John

unread,
Jan 23, 2009, 5:11:58 PM1/23/09
to

"MikeS" <nos...@home.ta> wrote in message
news:Sarel.24794$Sp5....@text.news.virginmedia.com...
Risky question for DIY.


John

unread,
Jan 23, 2009, 5:19:02 PM1/23/09
to

"MikeS" <nos...@home.ta> wrote in message
news:Sarel.24794$Sp5....@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>

http://www.poolsandtubs.co.uk/supabloc_insulation.php


Mr Sandman

unread,
Jan 23, 2009, 5:29:36 PM1/23/09
to

"MikeS" <nos...@home.ta> wrote in message
news:Sarel.24794$Sp5....@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>

Yes around the side i suppose. Underneath i don't know if it'd handle the
compression. Can anyone work out the compressive load of 2 meters of water?
i.e. using supabloc 7, could it cope with the weight?
http://www.tarmac.co.uk/TopBlock/DuroxSupabloc7.aspx

Steve

Andy Champ

unread,
Jan 23, 2009, 6:18:08 PM1/23/09
to
Mr Sandman wrote:
>
> Yes around the side i suppose. Underneath i don't know if it'd handle
> the compression. Can anyone work out the compressive load of 2 meters
> of water? i.e. using supabloc 7, could it cope with the weight?
> http://www.tarmac.co.uk/TopBlock/DuroxSupabloc7.aspx
>
> Steve

Huh? That's easy. A cubic meter weighs near as dammit a tonne. (varies
with temperature, but not enough to matter) so you are getting 2 tonnes
per square metre, 20KPa or 1/5 of an atmosphere. 3 PSI even.

What? The blocks are in N/mm^2! that's a barsteward unit if ever I saw
one!

One Pascal is one Newton per square metre, so 7.3N/mm^2 is 7.3MPa.
Those blocks are easily strong enough.

Whether they'll still insulate when they've soaked up ground water for a
couple of years I have no idea.

Andy

John

unread,
Jan 23, 2009, 6:36:58 PM1/23/09
to

"Andy Champ" <no....@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:886dnVY9WPeyzefU...@eclipse.net.uk...

Surely a bit dangerous to disregard the forces on the sides. Could lead to a
massive failure.


Message has been deleted

The Medway Handyman

unread,
Jan 23, 2009, 7:24:12 PM1/23/09
to

Isn't earth a reasonable insulator by itself?

Surely the biggest heat loss, and the one most difficult to insulate will be
the top surface?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk


Message has been deleted

John Rumm

unread,
Jan 23, 2009, 8:59:22 PM1/23/09
to
The Medway Handyman wrote:
> Mr Sandman wrote:
>> Obviously popping some polystyrene board down the side of a pool as
>> its being back filled takes care of the sides, but is there any thing
>> strong enough to stand the weight of a pool 7 foot deep? I.e., is
>> there a product that i can install in the hole that i can build the
>> pool on?
>
> Isn't earth a reasonable insulator by itself?

Not compared to PIR foam... 100mm under the floor slab and around the
edges would make a massive difference,

> Surely the biggest heat loss, and the one most difficult to insulate will be
> the top surface?

You can float a thermal cover on top when not in use. It will actually
add to the water temperature on a sunny day. It prevents evaporation
losses (water and more importantly heat) as well.

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

Rod

unread,
Jan 23, 2009, 9:08:14 PM1/23/09
to
m...@privacy.net wrote:
> On 24 Jan,
> "The Medway Handyman" <davi...@nospamblueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Surely the biggest heat loss, and the one most difficult to insulate will
>> be the top surface?
>>
> Evaporation from the surface *is* tha major loss of heat from swimming pools.
> Even bubble wrap will reduce this considerably. Trouble is you can't swim in
> it then.
>
> Air temperature should be maintained 1degC above the water temperature to
> keep the air from saturation. Condensation has ruined the structure of many
> 60s swimming pools (which were designed for lower water temperatures than
> that which has since been used).
>
> I think the temperature regulation system has been bred out of people in the
> last 50 years. Swimming pools 50s, 70F now 86F living rooms 50s, 55-60F now
> 70-77F.
>
I got the impression, possibly erroneously, that it was to be an outdoor
pool. In which case I'd guess keeping the air 1degC higher than the
water could be very expensive... :-)

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
<www.thyromind.info> <www.thyroiduk.org> <www.altsupportthyroid.org>

The Wanderer

unread,
Jan 24, 2009, 2:19:56 AM1/24/09
to
On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 01:59:22 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

> The Medway Handyman wrote:
>> Mr Sandman wrote:
>>> Obviously popping some polystyrene board down the side of a pool as
>>> its being back filled takes care of the sides, but is there any thing
>>> strong enough to stand the weight of a pool 7 foot deep? I.e., is
>>> there a product that i can install in the hole that i can build the
>>> pool on?
>>
>> Isn't earth a reasonable insulator by itself?
>
> Not compared to PIR foam... 100mm under the floor slab and around the
> edges would make a massive difference,
>
>> Surely the biggest heat loss, and the one most difficult to insulate will be
>> the top surface?
>
> You can float a thermal cover on top when not in use. It will actually
> add to the water temperature on a sunny day. It prevents evaporation
> losses (water and more importantly heat) as well.

Yeah, what he said. From memory, mine had a layer of some sort of plastic
foam, about 10-12mm thick across the floor and the sides were covered with
something like extra thick hessian wadding. I think both were put there
more for protection of the liner than insulation. The greatest heat loss is
at the surface, a solar blanket is an absolute must.


--
The Wanderer

Inertia keeps me going!

Mr Sandman

unread,
Jan 24, 2009, 3:45:13 AM1/24/09
to

<m...@privacy.net> wrote in message news:5022624A9E%brian...@lycos.co.uk...
> On 23 Jan,
> 6 feet of water is equivalent of 0.019 kg/mm^2, well within the limits of
> Supabloc7. Expanded Polystyrene or kingspan would be more than adequate
> with >100mm of reinforced concrete slab above it.
>
> The force against the sides at the bottom would be similar.
>

ta for this. So King span is strong enough? cool. Yes it is an out side
pool situated in France. I will be heating it by solar panels and my aim is
to make it useable for as much of the year as possible.

Ok, so i go with king span. Do i go with their thickest sheet or does it
matter much? Obviously i need the pool to be stable over a good few years,
so no movement in the floor is essential. Should i lay them directly on the
bottom of the hole i dig, or add a concrete slab under it as well as the
pool bottom slab over it?

Steve

The Natural Philosopher

unread,
Jan 24, 2009, 4:33:41 AM1/24/09
to
The Medway Handyman wrote:
> Mr Sandman wrote:
>> Obviously popping some polystyrene board down the side of a pool as
>> its being back filled takes care of the sides, but is there any thing
>> strong enough to stand the weight of a pool 7 foot deep? I.e., is
>> there a product that i can install in the hole that i can build the
>> pool on?
>
> Isn't earth a reasonable insulator by itself?
>
> Surely the biggest heat loss, and the one most difficult to insulate will be
> the top surface?
>
>
My thoughts exactly.

The actual m,ass of water in a pool is VAST. it is its own heatbank.

The volume of soil between it and the air is also vast.

Complete waste of time to insulate.

Andrew Gabriel

unread,
Jan 24, 2009, 7:08:48 AM1/24/09
to
In article <BvqdnYnYhte4SOfU...@posted.plusnet>,

"Mr Sandman" <sadv...@dcvs.com> writes:
>
> ta for this. So King span is strong enough? cool. Yes it is an out side
> pool situated in France. I will be heating it by solar panels and my aim is
> to make it useable for as much of the year as possible.
>
> Ok, so i go with king span. Do i go with their thickest sheet or does it
> matter much?

Going from nothing to 25mm generally makes a big difference.
Increasing the insulation above that makes much less difference.

By far the most important area to insulate is the top of the
pool, where the warmer water will tend towards, and heat loss
by evaporation and wind-chill is significant.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Andy Champ

unread,
Jan 24, 2009, 6:07:54 PM1/24/09
to
John wrote:
>
> Surely a bit dangerous to disregard the forces on the sides. Could lead to a
> massive failure.
>
The presence of the insulating blocks (or kingspan!) will have little
effect on the strength of the pool. You'll still need to handle a
lateral force of one tonne (ish) for every running metre of wall length.

I should add I'm not a pool designer, but I do know a _little_ _basic_
physics.

Andy

george (dicegeorge)

unread,
Jan 26, 2009, 7:56:23 PM1/26/09
to

i think the kingspan would get damp and not be much use

[g]

Nigel Rose

unread,
May 20, 2009, 10:27:05 AM5/20/09
to
Check out www.poolinsulation.com they have government grants to insulate old
and new swimming pools, we've just had our's done and got the insulation for
free, they are really helpful our pool heats up so much quicker.

url:http://myreader.co.uk/msg/1391141036.aspx

Grimly Curmudgeon

unread,
May 22, 2009, 1:02:25 AM5/22/09
to
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "Nigel Rose"<nige...@hotmail.com>
saying something like:

>Check out www.wanky-spam.com they have government grants to insulate old

>and new swimming pools, we've just had our's done and got the insulation for
>free, they are really helpful our pool heats up so much quicker.

Spamfucker. Piss off.

Dave Liquorice

unread,
May 22, 2009, 2:42:10 AM5/22/09
to
On Fri, 22 May 2009 06:02:25 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

>> Check out www.wanky-spam.com they have government grants to insulate
>> old and new swimming pools, we've just had our's done and got the
>> insulation for free, they are really helpful our pool heats up so much
>> quicker.
>
> Spamfucker. Piss off.

That's not a very nice thing to call our MP's.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Grimly Curmudgeon

unread,
May 22, 2009, 8:05:52 PM5/22/09
to
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "Dave Liquorice"
<allsortsn...@howhill.com> saying something like:

>> Spamfucker. Piss off.
>
>That's not a very nice thing to call our MP's.

The oik doesn't even have a proper moat.

Dave Liquorice

unread,
May 23, 2009, 7:51:12 AM5/23/09
to
On Sat, 23 May 2009 01:05:52 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

>>> Spamfucker. Piss off.
>>
>>That's not a very nice thing to call our MP's.
>
> The oik doesn't even have a proper moat.

Or even a Duck House, what is the world coming to if one can't have a moat
and duck house?

--
Cheers
Dave.

Owain

unread,
May 23, 2009, 2:35:14 PM5/23/09
to
Dave Liquorice wrote:
> Or even a Duck House, what is the world coming to if one can't have a moat
> and duck house?

It's class envy. You don't hear complaints about pigeon lofts and
whippet kennels.

If the MP didn't have a duck house he'd be lambasted in the press for
making the poor little duckywuckies sleep out in the cold.

Can't find duck houses in the Argos catalogue ...

Owain


Dave Liquorice

unread,
May 23, 2009, 5:12:09 PM5/23/09
to
On Sat, 23 May 2009 19:35:14 +0100, Owain wrote:

>> Or even a Duck House, what is the world coming to if one can't have a
>> moat and duck house?
>
> It's class envy. You don't hear complaints about pigeon lofts and
> whippet kennels.

Has any of our illustrious MPs used any part of their allowances for
pigeon lofts or whippet kennels?

--
Cheers
Dave.

The Natural Philosopher

unread,
May 24, 2009, 2:15:51 AM5/24/09
to
Of course not.

They cant wait to get away from their wurking clarrss roots and pretend
to be toffs.

Owain

unread,
May 23, 2009, 7:22:21 PM5/23/09
to
Dave Liquorice wrote:
> Has any of our illustrious MPs used any part of their allowances for
> pigeon lofts or whippet kennels?

I think pigeons and whippets as acceptable interests for MPs were
abolished by New Labour in 1997 as not being New enough.

The only MP I could find online of the whippet-keeping persuasion is
Canadian.

Owain


kevin jennings

unread,
Jun 12, 2009, 6:15:32 AM6/12/09
to
If you really want to insulate your pool properly and receive a Government
grant too, visit the Thermapool website at www.poolinsulation.com
the research is eye opening and the product is guaranteed for 25yrs, you can
also calculate how much money can be saved by using a calculator which has
been approved by all relevant authorities

url:http://myreader.co.uk/msg/1391141036.aspx

Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages