W O T - G O V E R N M E N T R I P O F F F U E L T A X E S ?
Kelly and Sandy
= ~ =
(`~0~0~')
-------ooO-(_)-Ooo--------
W O T G O V E R N M E N T
R I P O F F
F U E L T A X E S ?
MrCHAD thinks that The Government is ripping off the peoples of Britain.
The Taxes on fuel are NOT Taxes they are extortion to pay for Government
folly.
Fuel is an essential of every day life for those who NEED it and it costs
EVERYONE MORE because of the extortionate amount the Government is ripping
off on every Gallon.
The food you buy costs money to deliver and the Government skims a profit
from the fuel used thus adding to YOUR food bill.
Pensioners are ripped off by the government by the Government levying
extortionate taxes on fuel to heat and fuel used for deliveries.
The NHS is a major fuel user and the Government rips off The NHS by
extorting money on fuel wouldnt you rather that money was spent on
Nurses, Doctors & Primary Health.
Schools are major fuel users, wouldnt you rather the money ripped off in
fuel taxes was spent on EDUCATION, EDUCATION, EDUCATION.
Police are major fuel users and the budget for solving crime is SLASHED
because of the Government tax rip off on fuel.
The list of people RIPPED OFF by the Governments extortionate tax on fuel
includes EVERY citizen in Britain.
MrCHAD has found out that The Government rips off the peoples of Britain to
the value of approximately 2 MILLION POUNDS AN HOUR on the tax on fuel
alone.
MrCHAD believes that the ONLY way that this Government will listen to the
people of Britain is via PROTEST.
Do YOU want lower fuel tax Rip Off by The Government, are you a pensioner,
trucker, farmer, sales rep., office worker, housewife, unemployed, are you a
member of society who wants to pay less for food and other goods, have
better policing, education, health services?
There is a way of protesting & MrCHAD does NOT want YOU to break ANY laws or
be inconvenienced in ANY way. MrCHAD asks YOU to help bring down fuel
prices:
1) Put MrCHAD in the back windscreen of your car wherever
you go to keep an eye out for rip off fuel prices.
2) Show YOU care by joining the Resistance support MrCHAD
and he will help YOU.
3) Boycott Pumps @ British Petroleum
4) Buy YOUR fuel at ANY fuel Station other than British
Petroleum
5) Persuade your friends to Boycott Pumps @ British
Petroleum
6) Make sure your friends have MrCHAD with them in their
vehicles.
7) Make sure MrCHAD NEVER Buys Fuel @ British Petroleum
8) At other Fuel Stations say MrCHAD wants me to ask the
price in Gallons
9) Tell ALL The other fuel Stations MrCHAD is supporting
them and Boycotting Pumps @ BP
10) Ask for YOUR receipt in GALLONS
MrCHAD is certain that if YOU Boycott Pumps @ British Petroleum and we ALL
stand together and spread the word NO ONE will have to break any laws, no
one will have to picket, no one will be inconvenienced BUT as this starts to
tighten and truckers, ambulances, salesmen, police, taxi firms, salesmen,
office workers, housewives, farmers and the public in general stand together
BP will increasingly feel the pain even 10percent drop in turnover will
start to hurt BP.
BPs franchised stations will start to bring pressure on BP, BP will shave
their prices to BUY BACK business which MrCHAD will not give in to, with
YOUR help. BP will then be forced to go to the Government and the Government
will be IMPOTENT to act because NO LAW IS BEING BROKEN.
WHEN supporters of MrCHAD wont buy ONE Pint of fuel at BP then BP will lean
hard on the Government to reduce the extortionate taxes. BP has MORE muscle
with Government than all the individuals in Britain who can be divided and
ruled by Government!!
IF BP fail to force the Government to stop RIPPING OFF The British Peoples
then perhaps we shall have to consider extending the boycott to Esso or
Shell or Total and MrCHAD suggests that we all steadily tighten the screws
on the Government to stop the Government Ripping us Off by extorting money
on fuel which is an essential commodity it todays world.
Support MrCHAD and help MrCHAD to help the people of Britain:
Boycott Pumps @ British Petroleum
-\\|//-
= ~ =
(`~0~0~')
-------ooO-(_)-Ooo--------
Regards
M rC H A D
------------ ----------- ----------- ------------
www.SilentMajority.co.UK/MrCHAD
www.MrCHAD.co.UK
0 1 2 9 1 - 62 65 62
10.30hrs > 23.59hrs
G. M. T.
GREAT BRITAIN
Chris Croughton
<ju...@almide.demon.co.uk> wrote:
(Well, at least their email address says it all...)
>MrCHAD thinks that The Government is ripping off the peoples of Britain.
Tell us something we don't know.
>The Taxes on fuel are NOT Taxes they are extortion to pay for Government
>folly.
Tell us something we don't know.
>Fuel is an essential of every day life for those who NEED it and it costs
>EVERYONE MORE because of the extortionate amount the Government is ripping
>off on every Gallon.
Tell us something we don't know.
>MrCHAD believes that the ONLY way that this Government will listen to the
>people of Britain is via PROTEST.
No, just have a hung parliament. By the neck.
>1) Put MrCHAD in the back windscreen of your car wherever
>you go to keep an eye out for rip off fuel prices.
I rather think that I can see them better than a piece of paper.
>2) Show YOU care by joining the Resistance support MrCHAD
>and he will help YOU.
How?
>3) Boycott Pumps @ British Petroleum
Nope.
>4) Buy YOUR fuel at ANY fuel Station other than British
>Petroleum
No, I will buy at the cheapest place, whoever that is. BP makes no more
profit from petrol than anyone else, they are all taxed equally. I
boycott expensive fuel, I don't buy it somewhere more expensive just
because a company has 'British' in the name.
>7) Make sure MrCHAD NEVER Buys Fuel @ British Petroleum
I think that's easy, burn "Mr. Chad" instead of the fuel.
>8) At other Fuel Stations say MrCHAD wants me to ask the
>price in Gallons
Why? Because you can't look at "77.9p" and "79.9p" and tell the
difference?
>10) Ask for YOUR receipt in GALLONS
It would make my calculation of the fuel consumption of my car a little
easier, agreed, but then I'd have to find something else to occupy my
mind while driving to work. Multiplying by 4.55 isn't exactly difficult
anyway.
(Yes, multiplying. I calculate miles per litre and then multiply by the
number of litres per gallon, instead of trying to calculate gallons.)
>IF BP fail to force the Government to stop RIPPING OFF The British Peoples
>then perhaps we shall have to consider extending the boycott to Esso or
>Shell or Total and MrCHAD suggests that we all steadily tighten the screws
>on the Government to stop the Government Ripping us Off by extorting money
>on fuel which is an essential commodity it todays world.
Far better to boycott all of them when they charge more. Boycott the
ones who pay the government the most tax. That way we pay less tax from
the start and the fuel companies are encouraged to have a price war,
reducing it further.
Chris C
Kelly and Sandy
Ian Black and Michael White in Gothenburg
EU leaders fear wrath of the people
Europe's leaders were last night forced to consider slowing down their
"great debate" about the future of the continent in the face of growing
evidence of "a widespread sense of disconnection" between the EU and its
citizens.
As hundreds of anti globalisation rioters offered tangible proof of
alienation in violent clashes on the streets of Gothenburg, the 15 heads
of government attending the Swedish summit were warned that ordinary
people remain frustrated by their remoteness and lack of democratic
accountability.
Anarchist riots forced them to cancel a planned dinner at a restaurant in
the city centre and stay instead in the heavily guarded conference centre.
Britain's low election turnout has deeply unsettled ministers. But the
catalyst for yesterday's agonising was an unusually outspoken public
intervention by Bertie Ahern, the Irish prime minister.
Mr Ahern told colleagues that Ireland's shock rejection of the Nice
treaty, which paves the way for EU expansion up to 27 members, underlined
a "widespread sense of disconnection" between the union and its people.
"There is frustration at what is seen as an absence of clarity, openness
and responsiveness in how the union goes about his business," he added.
"There is a real and urgent need to focus on how we make the union more
meaningful to our citizens and on how its democratic accountability can be
strengthened."
The Irish No is unlikely to kill the treaty or prevent enlargement of the
EU to the south and east by 2004. Mr Ahern will seek a Yes vote in another
referendum, but not until next year.
But anxiety with the 54% to 46% voter rejection of Nice in Ireland was
barely concealed by some summiteers.
And it prompted Tony Blair and fellow leaders to admit to second thoughts
as to whether the time is right to launch a potentially divisive debate
about the future constitutional direction of Europe.
Outside the summit venue hundreds of anti-capitalist activists clashed
with police, throwing sticks and cobble stones and erecting burning
barricades. Protesters, many wearing black hoods, smashed several shop
front windows, including two McDonald's hamburger restaurants.
Mr Blair denounced the violence in which up to 37 people, including 10
police officers, were injured. "The protests are a complete outrage. To
result in this violence is not just entirely wrong, but also completely
misguided."
The Belgians, who take over the EU presidency from Sweden next month, are
due to launch the debate over the future shape of Europe.
"The EU should not proceed too fast," said the Austrian chancellor,
Wolfgang Schussel, who has experienced voter alienation in the shape of
Joerg Heider's far-right Freedom party. "Nice has not yet been ratified
and we are already talking about new goals."
But the gloom looked set to kill off Swedish hopes of speeding up the
process.
Goran Persson, the Swedish prime minister and summit host, had hoped to
issue a more precise target date for the entry of countries such as Poland
and Hungary, which lead the 12 applicants queueing up to join the club.
EU leaders repeated that the bitterly contested Nice treaty, which
includes a long-overdue overhaul of creaking institutional machinery,
cannot be renegotiated and that enlargement - the biggest ever undertaken
- must go ahead.
The first newcomers are expected in 2004. Ireland is the only EU state
which requires a popular vote, but all 15 members have to ratify it for it
to become law.
Spain's conservative prime minister, Jose-Maria Aznar, made the same
argument in favour of a new slowly-slowly approach.
Mr Blair is also likely to welcome this since he fears the divisive
abstractions of constitutional debate as he contemplates Britain's crucial
decision on a euro referendum.
Gerhard Schroder, the German chancellor and his foreign minister, Joschka
Fischer, last year sparked a wide debate about the future of Europe as it
enlarges in advance of new treaty talks in 2004.
But Mr Schroder appeared to be backing down in the aftermath of the Irish
vote, which some now fear could come to prove as difficult as the Danish
rejection of the Maastricht treaty in 1992.
"The debate about the final shape of Europe must not be conducted under
time pressure," he said, acknowledging Dublin's point that was important
to involve the wider public in planning the EU's future.
"Its an extremely important debate," Mr Persson said. "We have to move
closer to our electorates."
Mr Ahern is likely to negotiate an opt-out on parts of the treaty that
Irish voters dislike - notably provisions for setting up an EU rapid
reaction force which opponents of Nice claimed would breach Ireland's
treasured neutrality.
Ireland's rejection of the treaty came just as negotiations with the
candidate countries - Estonia, Hungary, the Czech Republic, Poland,
Slovenia, Cyprus, Malta, Bulgaria, Romania, Slovakia, Latvia and Lithuania
- were making good progress after an ugly row with Spain over future
regional funding.
Leaders of the 12 candidates are joining EU leaders for the last day of
the summit today.
======================
*** NOTICE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material
is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest
in receiving the included information for research and educational
purposes. Feel free to distribute widely but PLEASE acknowledge the
original source. ***
Kelly and Sandy
Loblaws orders GMO-free labels removed
By KEVIN COX and INGRID PERTIZ
From Wednesday's Globe and Mail
Loblaws, Canada's largest grocery retailer, has ordered its suppliers to
remove or cover by Sept. 1 any labels that identify food as being free of
genetically modified ingredients.
The move has angered many of the organic food processors that market their
breakfast cereals, pastas and other products in the store's health food
department as being free of chemical additives and genetically modified
material.
Nature's Path Foods Inc., a British-Columbia-based company that produces
organic breakfast cereals, said some Canadian grocery chains pressed the
company to alter the labels on its products destined for their shelves.
The part of the label that says the products are made without genetically
modified organisms has been blacked out with a felt pen.
Spokesman Arran Stephens said some large grocery chains warned the company
that its products would be yanked from shelves if it didn't remove the
reference to genetically modified organisms.
"We've sort of been bullied into this. We feel it's very important that
consumers know if their food has been genetically tampered," Mr. Stephens
said, but the company didn't want to risk cutting production and laying
off employees.
Mr. Stephens noted that independent food stores and grocery chains in the
United States welcome the GMO-free labels. "They're pretty disappointed
that we decided to bow to pressure."
Many suppliers are afraid to criticize the giant grocery chain publicly
because they fear losing shelf space. But they say privately that they are
facing major expense to change labels and could lose sales because
consumers won't be able to tell if they are getting GMO-free foods.
In a memo sent to suppliers in late January, Jamie Cooney, director of
procurement of health food for Loblaws, said the products of distributors
who didn't remove the non-GMO labels could be removed from the grocery
chain's shelves.
"It is our position that until such time as a government and-or
industry-supported definition of genetic modification exists in Canada we
will not support product packaging containing non-GMO claims," the letter,
dated Jan. 29, said.
No one was available to comment for Loblaws Tuesday.
In some Loblaws stores across the country the non-GMO stickers have been
blacked out or covered by other stickers.
Nadege Adam, health protection director for the Council of Canadians, said
she was not aware of other grocery chains taking this position.
"There is absolutely no reason for them [Loblaws] to do this," Ms. Adam
said in an interview. "There are no laws preventing anybody from putting a
GMO-free claim as long as they can prove it's GMO-free. Loblaws is
preventing people from doing this. They are not the government; they have
no right to do this."
The federal government has yet to establish a standard or a labelling
policy for genetically modified foods, those that come from plants altered
to resist pests or herbicides or to produce greater yields.
Ottawa suffered a setback Tuesday in one of its attempts to control
labelling of GMO foods when a Quebec judge quashed its bid for an
injunction that would stop a beer maker from labelling and advertising its
product as "certified GMO-free" by the Canadian Food Inspection Agency.
While the agency regulates genetically modified crops, it doesn't label or
test consumer products for the presence of GMOs.
Unibroue Inc. has said that a manufacturer's certificate signed by a
government food inspector proved that the CFIA says its product is
GMO-free.
The head of the Canadian Health Food Association said Tuesday that the
Loblaws policy leaves consumers in the dark about whether they are eating
foods containing genetically modified ingredients.
Donna Herringer said the association has been lobbying the federal
government for two years to come up with mandatory labelling of foods that
contain genetically modified ingredients.
Instead, Agriculture Minister Lyle Vanclief asked a committee to come up
with recommendations for voluntary labelling of foods that contain
genetically modified ingredients.
Ms. Herringer said that approach will not work because food distributors
and retailers won't voluntarily label their products as containing
genetically modified material.
"So Canadian consumers continue to be in the dark," Ms. Herringer said in
an interview from Vancouver.
======================
*** NOTICE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material
is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest
in receiving the included information for research and educational
purposes. Feel free to distribute widely but PLEASE acknowledge the
source. ***
Kelly and Sandy
-\\|//-
= ~ =
(`~0~0~')
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MrCHAD has heard that BRITISH Airways
Are aiming to betray BRITAIN.
IF B.A. manage to pass a resolution, at their AGM on July 17th., Betraying
Britain & the peoples of Britain MrCHAD believes that ALL British people
should BOYCOTT B.A. and demand they rebadge, denied the right to use BRITISH
in their title.
BA is asking their share holders to vote on 10 resolutions at their AGM. 9
out of 10 of these resolutions are fair and legitimate decisions on which BA
should ask its shareholders to vote however ONE item is NOT a Commercial
Decision it is purely POLITICAL.
MrCHAD has been shown the voting form by an incensed Share Holder and notes
that:
Resolution #9 asks share holders to vote For or Against:
EU Political Expenditure.
It is outrageous in MrCHADs opinion that a British National Carrier Airline
which inherits the proud tradition and assets of B.O.A.C. should ask its
share holders to contribute ONE Pound to supporting the EU which has done
Briatin so much damage.
B.A. is betraying not only the British and Commonwealth soldiers who gave
their lives to prevent European Union between 1914 & 1919 AND 1939 & 1946,
but also those British citizens who have been crushed and destroyed by the
EU and its policies since Fishermen, Farmers, Miners, Steel Workers, Ship
Builders, Motor Manufacturers, Slaughterhouses and 1,000s of small
businesses crushed by the increasing burden of crass EU bureaucratic
legislation and taxes.
How can B.A. even contemplate asking their shareholders to contribute to the
EU which already costs them 1,800,000 Pounds PER HOUR just for membership of
a corrupt organization less than 25percent of the British Peoples wish to
participate in.
MrCHAD believes that if this disgracefull resolution is passed any British
citizen using B.A. would be joining in the betrayal and therefore calls on
ALL British citizens to act honourably and with integrity and BOYCOTT B.A.
-\\|//-
= ~ =
(`~0~0~')
-------ooO-(_)-Ooo--------
Regards
M rC H A D
------------ ----------- ----------- ------------
www.SilentMajority.co.UK/MrCHAD
www.MrCHAD.co.UK
0 1 2 9 1 - 62 65 62
10.30hrs > 23.59hrs
G. M. T.
GREAT BRITAIN
/* C A U T I O N E X P L O S I V E B O L T S
-- REMOVE BEFORE ENGAGING REPLY
//
// Kelly and Sandy Anderson <kel...@explosive-alma-services-bolts.co.uk>
// (alternatively kelsan_odoodle at ya who period, see oh em)
// Alexander (Sandy) 1B5A DF3D A3D9 B932 39EB 3F1B 981F 4110 27E1 64A4
// Kelly 673F 6751 6DBA 196F E8A8 6D87 4AEC F35E E9AD 099B
// Homepages http://www.explosive-alma-services-bolts.co.uk/
*/
Jim Webster
Kelly and Sandy wrote in message ...
and if I ever buy my groceries in Canada I will doubtless remember this
information with gratitude
Jim Webster
Reality Facilitator
Jim Webster
may I suggest you x post to a politics group where people actually welcome
this sort of thing. Note that asking people of uba to boycott BA is about as
meaningful as asking them to boycott New York art Dealers
Jim Webster
Reality Facilitator
Jim Webster
posting even slightly relevant to FMD or British agriculture
thank you for your future consideration
Jim Webster
Reality Facilitator
Kelly and Sandy
system;
Or see the article in BusinessWeek at;
http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/jun2001/nf20010614_991.htm
Bill Gates's Other Passion
He's a major biotech investor. Whether driven by philanthropic intent or
the search for more riches, Gates is a player to watch
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An exhausted Bill Gates once flew home to Seattle from Washington after a
grueling day defending Microsoft (MSFT ) in its landmark antitrust trial.
How did he unwind? By attending the shareholders' meeting of Icos Corp.,
(ICOS ) a Seattle-area biotech company in which Gates holds a 15% stake and
a seat on the board.
He spent four hours after the meeting talking to management about Icos'
pipeline of drugs, recalls George Rathmann, the company's founder and a
biotech pioneer who is a longtime friend of Gates. "He's tough on you....
If you do clinical trials on a promising compound and then don't get the
results you were looking for, he wants to know why," says Rathmann, now the
chairman of Hyseq (HYSQ ) in Sunnyvale, Calif. "He's saying, 'There must be
something wrong here with the approach we're taking.'"
Whether it's due to his philanthropic interests or another example of Gates
using his tech expertise to spot the next blockbuster industry, it's
intriguing that the co-founder of the world's most powerful software
company has such an abiding involvement in the biotech field. In some
cases, those two motivations are tied hand-in-hand. In others, friends and
business colleagues suggest that Gates is driven to find a cure for the
cancer that killed his mother at age 64 in 1994 and struck Microsoft co-
founder Paul Allen in 1983. But part of it, of course, is that the richest
person in the U.S., if not the world, diversifying his fortune and
solidifying his legacy.
MOST PROFITABLE PICK. On his Web site (www.microsoft.com/billgates), the
man who was instrumental in making Windows the most-used PC operating
system in the world alludes to a deep personal interest in biotechnology.
He doesn't fully explain his motivations, but clearly, Gates has earned the
respect of many of the top scientists in the area. And given his interest
in drug discovery, investors might want to keep a closer eye on Gates's
biotech dabbling. With his profound curiosity and boundless intellectual
energy, he seems to have a better shot than most at spotting a biotech
miracle.
His interests in medical research fall into separate categories, says
Rathmann: the pure investments, handled through his private investment
adviser, Michael Larson of Cascade Investments in Seattle; and the
charitable efforts, focused on vaccine research and cures for Third World
diseases. Rathmann puts Icos in a third category, because Gates sits on the
board and for many years has played a role in the company's direction. Back
in the early '90s, when Icos was just getting started, Rathmann convinced
Gates to join the board and later buy millions of shares in two separate,
secondary stock offerings.
Icos is by far Gates's largest and most profitable biotech play to date.
It's now one of the nation's largest biotech companies, with a market
capitalization of $3.3 billion, and Gates has helped shepherd it through
difficult periods of growth since he joined the board in 1990. His 15%
stake represents one of his first leaps into the field.
The investment is paying off. Icos is awaiting regulatory approval for
Cialis, a drug for male impotence that will most likely encroach on a
market dominated by Pfizer's blockbuster Viagra. And Icos has projects in
many other branches of medicine, from cancer to psoriasis to arthritis. The
stock has climbed from $40 a share to $63 in the last year, representing a
$120 million gain for Gates's 5.3 million shares, which are now valued at
$330 million.
CHARITABLE DRIVE. Where else has he invested? Not surprisingly, given his
personal history, in cancer research. Gates acquired 3.5 million shares of
Seattle Genetics (SGE ), which held an initial public offering in March.
The company has three cancer drugs in clinical trials already. With the
stock trading near its IPO price of $7 a share, Gates's 12% stake is worth
$24 million.
More recently, Gates has enjoyed a surge in Corixa Corp. (CRXA ), a Seattle
biotech company researching drugs for cancer and infectious diseases. He
has $50 million invested in Corixa preferred stock through a private trust,
according to company reports. In addition, the Bill & Melinda Gates
Foundation last year dropped $15 million into Corixa through a joint
venture with a nonprofit research institute. The donation is for research
into a vaccine to treat leishmaniasis, a parasitic skin disease endemic in
several parts of the Third World.
Following a broad seven-month decline in the sector that lasted until
April, Corixa and many other biotech companies have enjoyed a recovery of
late. It closed at $20 a share on June 12, up from $6.35 in April, although
far below its high of $54 in September, 2000. It's unclear how much Gates's
Corixa stake has grown, but the preferred shares are tied to the value of
the common stock.
"Bill has a fundamental interest in biotechnology," says Corixa Chief
Executive Steven Gillis. And his interest in Corixa no doubt relates in
part to the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation's quest for new vaccines to
treat Third World childhood illnesses. The foundation has donated more than
$2 billion so far to vaccine development, AIDS research, and other human-
health efforts.
CONVERGENCE STRATEGY. Not all of Gates's investments have proven winners.
He invested in Darwin Molecular, a Seattle company co-founded by
distinguished microbiologist Leroy Hood, back in 1991, before anybody had
heard of genomics. The company later became Celltech, which merged with
Britain's Chiroscience in 1999. But the science never fully panned out.
Rathmann says the company was ahead of itself, but it gave Gates one of his
initial exposures to the developing industry.
"Bill Gates recognized very early and very clearly the importance of the
biotech/info-tech convergence that is transforming biology and medicine,"
says Hood, also a founder of the nonprofit Institute for Systems Biology in
Seattle. Hood went on to become the first William Gates III Professor of
Biomedical Sciences at the University of Washington -- an endowment that
itself speaks volumes about Gates's desire to be recognized for his
interests in medicine. "Biotechnology is intimately tied to the field in
which Bill has made so many vital contributions," adds Hood, who has known
Gates for years.
Gates also invested in Targeted Genetics (TGEN ), a gene-therapy research
company in Seattle, when it spun out of Immunex (IMNX ) in 1992. Gene
therapy is an experimental treatment that alters the basic units of
heredity found in cells. In early cancer studies with gene therapy,
researchers have tried to improve the body's natural ability to fight the
disease or to make a tumor more sensitive to drug treatment.
So far, the treatments either haven't worked or have proven dangerous. The
area remains shrouded in controversy, following the death of 18-year-old
Jesse Gelsinger during a gene-therapy experiment in 1999. Targeted Genetics
had nothing to do with that case, but its stock nonetheless has done
poorly, declining from $15 to $5 a share over the past year.
FOLLOW THE MONEY. Gates got out of Targeted long ago, but he remains tied
to Pain Therapeutics (PTIE ), according to filings with the Securities &
Exchange Commission. In 2000, he acquired 2 million shares, or 7% of the
company, valued at $16 million. South San Francisco-based Pain Therapeutics
is developing refined forms of narcotic painkillers. However, the company
is burning through cash and doesn't have a drug in late-stage clinical
trials. Its stock has slid from a high of $26 a share in 2000 to around $6
now.
Certainly, biotech investing isn't only about picking immediate winners.
The trick is finding an Icos to hang your hat on. So far, Gates, has done
fairly well for himself, but his interests don't always appear to be aimed
at making money. With a wife and son and a $50 billion fortune, the 45-
year-old Gates is at a different stage in his life than he was in the
decades in which he was building Microsoft into a software monolith. Now
that CEO Steve Ballmer has taken some of the load from Gates's shoulders,
he may think it's time to burnish his image as a philanthropist.
Gates couldn't be reached for this article, but as computer technology and
disease research increasingly converge in the genomics revolution, his
interest in biotech seems ever more prescient. Like Paul Allen, who has
made significant biotech investments of his own over the years, Gates could
have a profound impact on many companies for years to come. He has enough
personal wealth to move markets. And people pay attention to his
investments. After all, they figure, he must know a thing or two about the
science if he's willing to invest or donate some of that Microsoft money.
By David Shook in New York
Edited by Beth Belton
-----------------------------------------------------------
Fair Use
--
Let the buyer freeware.
Anon anon anon.
Michael Saunby
"Kelly and Sandy" <ju...@almide.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:AE7rmJAI...@almide.demon.co.uk...
> Bill Gates has a few bugs in the bonnet, as well as in his operating
> system;
>
Sandy (I expect, though you didn't sign)
By all accounts William Gates isn't a complete fuckwit. There, now I've
got your attention. It has been shown over several weeks now, that the only
discussions you'll enter those that involve nothing more than personal
abuse. There is no evidence that you read messages in threads other than
those you originate on these two newsgroup. All you do is post long
articles taken from elsewhere, some like this having content of no relevance
to these newsgroup. These long postings are very poor material for the start
of a discussion, have you tried this technique in a pub or during a lunch
break at work? Perhaps you have and regular punch on the nose is starting
to hurt.
In short you are abusing these groups for gods know what purpose, and in the
process irritating the hell out of regular posters. What is it that you
want us to call you? And when do you propose to actually use this wonderful
facility for the intended purpose, or perhaps just go away?
If you really do want to discuss William Gates and his business empires why
not post in a place where a greater proportion of posters will have a strong
interest in the issue? If you like I'll even join in. But not here, it's not
an appropriate place for such a discussion. Indeed if you'd bothered to
look at how others post in these groups you'd have realised that this isn't
even an appropriate place for your newsflashes and calls for action.
Please grow up.
Regards,
Michael Saunby
Oz
>Sandy (I expect, though you didn't sign)
>
>Please grow up.
Lost cause, I am afraid.
You might just as well ask that of a truculent 10 year old.
Hmmm
Mind you they probably ARE truculent 10 year olds.
--
Oz Farming looks mighty easy when your plow is a pencil, and you're a
thousand miles from the cornfield. [Dwight D. Eisenhower]
{Using a smoothwall router}
Jim Webster
Kelly and Sandy wrote in message ...
. YOUR Government has destroyed the
>respect rural Britain has for their Police,
tricky that one, when did anyone last see a policeman in a rural area. :-((
snip
No not content with
>this the Government has debased our army to the brave role of shooting
>sheep, killing piglets with shovels and massacring pigs as they gave
>birth.
amazing how the BNP story keeps doing the rounds isn't it.
Shredded back in April but they still keep pushing it. Tell a big enough lie
and people believe it I suppose.
rest of rant snipped
Jim Webster
Reality Facilitator
Rich_John
smashed locks. We get a few in upper Stainland because it's just off the
motorway. I rang at 8 am and no one has come yet. I don't count us as rural
--
Rich John
"Jim Webster" <Jim.W...@new.address.to.avoid.harassment> wrote in message
news:9hbsfi$82a$1...@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
ma...@trudgill.org
<Jim.W...@new.address.to.avoid.harassment> wrote:
>
>amazing how the BNP story keeps doing the rounds isn't it.
>Shredded back in April but they still keep pushing it. Tell a big enough lie
>and people believe it I suppose.
>
>rest of rant snipped
>
>Jim Webster
>
>Reality Facilitator
>
Having grown up with 18 years of Tory spin and 5 or so years of
er..old tory spin, I find that most if not all political stories are
infact based on truth.
Whether the truth of the matter is headline or buried away in a small
paragraph under reams of retoric depends on their own agenda.
Just because a story purports to be from the BNP doesn't make it
anyless reliable than if it came out of Millbank or central office.
Personally my eyes glazed over after about the 3rd paragraph, so
didn't get to the bit about piggies, but how do you know it's all
lies, were you there, or are you taking some official government spin
as gospel?
Jim Webster
ma...@trudgill.org wrote in message <3b3b0b46...@news.ntlworld.com>...
>On Wed, 27 Jun 2001 06:53:47 +0100, "Jim Webster"
><Jim.W...@new.address.to.avoid.harassment> wrote:
>
>>
>>amazing how the BNP story keeps doing the rounds isn't it.
>>Shredded back in April but they still keep pushing it. Tell a big enough
lie
>>and people believe it I suppose.
>>
>>rest of rant snipped
>>
>>Jim Webster
>>
>>Reality Facilitator
>>
>Having grown up with 18 years of Tory spin and 5 or so years of
>er..old tory spin, I find that most if not all political stories are
>infact based on truth.
look a little further back and read about the concept of "the big lie". It
is attitudes like yours which mean that you can sell any lie you want to
some people
>Whether the truth of the matter is headline or buried away in a small
>paragraph under reams of retoric depends on their own agenda.
>Just because a story purports to be from the BNP doesn't make it
>anyless reliable than if it came out of Millbank or central office.
Whether it is reliable or not due to the source is irrelevant. Back in April
the evidence presented was checked and found to be just not there. It was a
piece of fabrication.
>Personally my eyes glazed over after about the 3rd paragraph, so
>didn't get to the bit about piggies, but how do you know it's all
>lies, were you there, or are you taking some official government spin
>as gospel?
back in April we checked out details. There was a limited number of farms in
the area. There were even less with pigs and sheep (a relatively rare
combination) so finding out who it had to be was pretty easy. It was also a
matter of a few moments to check to see if anyone (like the environment
agency) had had any reports of carcasses washing down rivers.
Sod theory, just check the facts
Jim Webster
Reality Facilitator
>
Glynn Bradley
<ri...@john.as> writes
> I rang for a policeman to attend an abandoned car, engine running and
>smashed locks. We get a few in upper Stainland because it's just off the
>motorway. I rang at 8 am and no one has come yet. I don't count us as rural
>
--
Ol' pedlar of wares 'n' trinkets
http://www.puwer98.com Get your wood working machines serviced here.
http://www.ezinfocenter.com/1216506
http://www.euphony.demon.co.uk For information on credit union's
Jim Webster
Kidney John <kidneyj...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:qbihktsd7mreerlrr...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 8 Jul 2001 21:09:02 +0100, Kelly and Sandy
> <ju...@almide.demon.co.uk> wrote > >
> >Mar. 23, 2001
> >
>
>http://www.faz.com/IN/INtemplates/eFAZ/docinfocus.asp?rub={C96AF76E-E589-11
D
> >4-B99E-009027BA226C}&doc={941A4B62-1F72-11D5-A3B5-009027BA22E4
>
><http://www.faz.com/IN/INtemplates/eFAZ/docinfocus.asp?rub=%7BC96AF76E-E589
-
> >11D4-B99E-009027BA226C%7D&doc=%7B941A4B62-1F72-11D5-A3B5-009027BA22E4> }
>
> Interesting.
and back in March it was even current
--
Jim Webster
Reality Facilitator
Kidney John
Surely it still is.
Michael Saunby
No, Kelly and Sandy are old news. Or do you mean something else?
Michael Saunby
Jim Webster
no, it is four months out of date, the UK no longer has 500 cases, the Dutch
and Germans no longer discuss vaccination and the vaccination issue has been
long resolved. Queen Anne is Dead
Kelly and Sandy
<kidneyj...@hotmail.com> writes
>Surely it still is.
Gosh darn right it is! I've been listening to it on the phone-ins
on Radio York all morning.
I feel certain that Jim Webster (and the others like him) is some
kind of lackey for... someone. I dread to contemplate what it would
mean about Britain if he were NOT a paid up lackey for the DEFRA maffia,
or whoever, in _some_ manner. Anyway, they effectively act in accord
with what MAFF/DEFRA are systematically doing to British Farming. This
newsgroup has died out and dispersed because of them.
If you do a search for "Jim Webster" using the newsgroup archives at
Google,
http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search
(as I had to do a month or so back) you start to get a picture of his
track record.
Sandy
Jim Webster
Kelly and Sandy <ju...@almide.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:XY5BlXAM$ZS7...@almide.demon.co.uk...
> In article <scnhkts8gtlmunuu3...@4ax.com>, Kidney John
> <kidneyj...@hotmail.com> writes
>
> >Surely it still is.
>
>
> Gosh darn right it is! I've been listening to it on the phone-ins
> on Radio York all morning.
ah yes, Radio York, where all truth is to be found
>
> I feel certain that Jim Webster (and the others like him) is some
> kind of lackey for... someone. I dread to contemplate what it would
> mean about Britain if he were NOT a paid up lackey for the DEFRA maffia,
> or whoever, in _some_ manner. Anyway, they effectively act in accord
> with what MAFF/DEFRA are systematically doing to British Farming. This
> newsgroup has died out and dispersed because of them.
>
which news group, you are spamming six
I also note that rather than admit you posted stuff four months old as
current, you turn to personal abuse.
> If you do a search for "Jim Webster" using the newsgroup archives at
> Google,
>
> http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search
>
> (as I had to do a month or so back) you start to get a picture of his
> track record.
>
you also find at least four different Jim Websters but our two clowns
probably never twigged
--
Jim Webster
"The pasture of stupidity is unwholesome to mankind"
'Abd-ar-Rahman b. Muhammad b. Khaldun al-Hadrami'
Jill Bowis
see
and as Jim has been around UBA for a heck of a lot longer than you and will
pobably be so for much longer after you have gone to your next conspiracy
theory - and we will still - including Jim - be farmers...
Jill
--
http://www.poultryscotland.co.uk http://www.henhouses.co.uk
http://www.kintaline.co.uk http://www.hardyplantcentre.co.uk
http://homepages.tesco.net/~welshcottage
Kelly and Sandy wrote in message ...
Ray Milne
The views of the EU are, and have been stated numerous times before.
ANY animals vaccinated against FMD are NO longer able to be EXPORTED, or
even moved outside the country which they are in.
That means the Germans CANNOT sell,give away or otherwise dispose of ANY
animals with FMD /vaccinated against same.
THAT IS AN EU DIRECTIVE. They have to stay within Germany, mind you some of
the members of the EU choose which rules to obey and which to ignore.
So the Germans want to change the rules because it doesn't suit them, shame.
--
Ray
Life is like a sewer,
What you get out of it depends on what
you put in it.
"Kelly and Sandy" <ju...@almide.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:XY5BlXAM$ZS7...@almide.demon.co.uk...
---
Ray's mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.264 / Virus Database: 136 - Release Date: 02-07-01
Mike Swift
<ray....@btinternet.com> writes
>THAT IS AN EU DIRECTIVE. They have to stay within Germany, mind you some of
>the members of the EU choose which rules to obey and which to ignore.
>So the Germans want to change the rules because it doesn't suit them, shame.
>--
Some of the E.U. members, I get the distinct impression most of them do.
Mike
Not an E.U. fan.
--
Michael Swift We do not regard Englishmen as foreigners.
Kirkheaton We look on them only as rather mad Norwegians.
Yorkshire Halvard Lange
'46 M Y++ L+ U KQ+ c B+ P99S P00S p+ Sh++ S(Benetton) R(HD5)
Jim Webster
>
> Pedigree herd in danger of slaughter
> ------------------------------------
>
> ONE of the country's oldest and most important herds of pedigree beef
> shorthorn cattle - considered to be a blood line of international
> importance - is under threat as foot and mouth disease continues to
> spread in North Yorkshire.
>
> The Upsall Herd was founded in 1909 by Sir Edmund Turton, great-
> uncle of the present owner, former Sheriff of North Yorkshire and North
> Yorkshire county councillor Gerald Turton, who farms at Upsall Castle,
> near Thirsk on the western edge of the North York Moors.
>
> He has said he will use every means possible, including court action
> if necessary, to defend his championship bulls, 80 cows and another 120
> followers, after receiving a Ministry "D" notice
good grief, if only we had realised early, court action keeps away the
virus.
fancy that
why were we not told earlier
it is all a conspiracy I tell you
fred
Newsgroup in danger of being swamped by cross-posts.
Due to people posting excessively cross-posted trolls the newsgroup
uk.local.yorkshire is being swamped with the inane chit-chat of
people on other groups.
Could I point out that it violates the charter of uly to cross-post
to more than four groups and ask you to please remove uk.local.yorkshire
from the newsgroups line before replying to any articles in this thread
or any other cross-posted threads started by the same person on the same
subject.
--
ô
õçîd
Jill Bowis
Kelly and Sandy spouted again
FARMER URGED TO DEFY CULL AS
> ----------------------------
> OUTBREAK TIGHTENS GRIP
> ----------------------
>
> Stuart Mackintosh
> Wednesday 11 June 2001
>
>
> Three new outbreaks were revealed in North Yorkshire, taking the
>total in the beleaguered county to 106 and forcing a pressure group to
>urge farmers to refuse to cooperate with the Government's slaughter
>policy.
>>>THE FOOT-AND-MOUTH CRISIS showed no sign of loosening its grip on the
>region last night, as more cases were confirmed in a stricken rural
>area.
Considering the latter sentance - could you two - or any of your cohorts -
please explain why this action will reduce the spread of FMD
I am afraid I do not understand how this works
> Ground Force is working with leading solicitors to advise landowners
>on how to legally blockade their premises and deny access to slaughter
>teams carrying out contiguous culls.
Why does this help the prevetnion of the spread of this disease?
>
> The organisation said 16 farmers in the Vale of York - where a new
>cluster of cases has emerged since the weekend - had sought its advice
>and were prepared to challenge any attempts to slaughter livestock.
Since the disease is presetn in the locality - what is the scientific - from
any source - that this is a good idea?
> The Nether Silton case is the fifth in the major farming belt
>between Thirsk and Helmsley, and will increase fears that the epidemic
>could soon hit Britain's main pig production area.
>
As all scientific evidence is that the worst horror in animal welfare terms
seems to be if this horrendous disease should enter a pig farm - let alone a
pig farming area - why is preventing the contiguous cull a good practise?
> As the epidemic continued to march through the region, Ground Force
>national coordinator Greg Lance-Watkins attacked the Government's policy
>of contiguous culls and said farmers had a legal right to turn officials
>away.
What sort of farm does Mr Greg Lance Waatkins have - out of interest - and
where does he live?
> "Our aim is to save as many animals as possible from unnecessary
>culling
Will that also be the case if this disease gets in amongst pig farms>
>
> "Foot-and-mouth is coming down the A19 and North Yorkshire is a
>nightmare at the moment. The farmers will stand against the Government
>for as long as they can."
How will this prevetn the movement of the disease ?
Sorry for what to you may be fool questions but I am afraid I do not
understand the logic of it?
Jill
Michael Saunby
"Jill Bowis" <kintali...@sol.co.uk> wrote in message
news:9iiar7$7ce$1...@phys-ma.sol.co.uk...
>
> What sort of farm does Mr Greg Lance Waatkins have - out of interest - and
> where does he live?
>
I don't expect it's anywhere we've heard of, probably one of those distant
planets with digits in its name.
Michael Saunby
James
i agree that people like Jim WEbster and Michael SAuby seem to be paid
lackys, or at least to have some sort of hidden agenda - their bias
and illogic is so blatant. Then again many people really are that
stupid and nasty these days.
I've heard that some farmers expect to be able to buy up big as a
result of mahy others being driven to the wall by this (in my opinion
manufactured) crisis. Maybe they belong to that heartless and
parasitic class? More complimentary would be the alternative that they
are just unintelligent and belligerent conformists.
Kelly and Sandy
<jimmyh...@yahoo.com> writes
>i agree that people like Jim WEbster and Michael SAuby seem to be paid
>lackys, or at least to have some sort of hidden agenda - their bias
>and illogic is so blatant. Then again many people really are that
>stupid and nasty these days.
>I've heard that some farmers expect to be able to buy up big as a
>result of mahy others being driven to the wall by this (in my opinion
>manufactured) crisis. Maybe they belong to that heartless and
>parasitic class? More complimentary would be the alternative that they
>are just unintelligent and belligerent conformists.
Dear James,
Nice to hear from a fellow human being for a change!
I'm glad to hear stuff from someone else for a change, that "people
are stupid and nasty these days". As to farmers buying up big, and
manufactured crisis, well, I echo that with an extremely interesting
article below.
I think a things are going to get far, far worse before things
change.
(Yesterday, and today there's been this terrible ominous howling
wind -- like something out of Macbeth -- the same strong winds that
killed those people at that open air concert in France, sheltering under
that "plain" tree, and which have also caused havoc in Russia... and you
start to think, "How long is it going to be before the weather system
breaks, and we no longer have the Gulf Stream in Britain?")
With kind regards,
Sandy
Italian directors to film G8 summit in Genoa
--------------------------------------------
by Philip Willan in Rome
Thirty leading Italian film directors will turn their lenses on the G8
summit in Genoa next month, and on the assorted anti-globalisation
movements in town to register their protest.
The collective film of the event is being coordinated by the
director Francesco Maselli to give a voice to dissident opinions which
may not receive a hearing from the mainstream media.
"Only directors with long experience behind a camera can do justice
to the particularity and complexity of an event like the one in Genoa,"
Maselli told the leftwing daily L'Unita yesterday.
Among the directors supporting the project are the veteran Gillo
Pontecorvo, Gabriele Salvatores, Ricki Tognazzi, Carlo Lizzani and
Pasquale Scimeca.
"It is our duty to roll up our sleeves and work with others on such
an important occasion, when the quality of life of the future is being
decided," said Pontecorvo, the director of 'The Battle of Algiers'.
He does not expect to record the same scenes of violence as in his
classic film on the Algerian war of independence, but believes that
cinema enjoys an editorial freedom that is lacking in Italian television
today.
"All the major Italian film directors have a past in documentary-
making. We will be reviving the habit of our youth," he said.
Pontecorvo said he expected the film to be shown in cinemas and
broadcast on television. Most of the project's directors have leftwing
sympathies, so he does not anticipate problems in harmonising their
diverse accounts of the event, which takes place from July 20 to 22.
"The editing will be the crucial moment, which will set the tone and
determine the substance of the thing," he said.
The veteran director Luigi Magni has pledged his support for the
project, although he said he would not be braving the streets of Genoa
in what is likely to be torrid summer heat.
"The issue of globalisation should involve everyone," he said.
"They have to realise that the world cannot be destroyed for profit,
to take account of the conditions of life in Africa and Asia, of hunger,
drought and the destruction of the polar ice-caps. What are we going to
do with the world? That's the real question."
The director Carlo Lizzani told L'Unita: "I am supporting the
initiative because I completely agree with those who say that the world
is not just the G8, but is also another two billion people who are not
represented and who have the right to be. It seems obvious to me that
cinema should be on their side."
The government has launched a charm offensive to stifle any
potential anarchist violence at the summit through a strategy of
attention.
The chief of police, Gianni De Gennaro, has been sent to Genoa to
meet leaders of the 700 protest movements represented in the Genoa
Social Forum.
Renato Ruggiero, the foreign minister and a former chairman of the
World Trade Organisation, has offered to transmit a document expressing
the views and wishes of the protesters to all the world leaders
attending the summit.
The government hopes its assurances that dissent will enjoy a high
visibility in Genoa will eliminate the protesters' desire to drive home
their point with violence.
(The Guardian, Wednesday June 27, 2001)
Kelly and Sandy
Michael Saunby
Hello, hello, anybody home?
You're quick to criticise when I or someone else gets a little sarcastic in
a response to one of your news postings, or should I say "news dumps". I'm
quite sure you'll not bother explaining, but just in case you have finally
grasped the slightest of clues. Please explain why you see fit to dump long
postings taken from websites, newspapers, etc. apparently containing
material dear to your heart, sharing with every group with even the
slightest connection, and then failing to actually do what others come here
for, i.e. debate the issues???
It's just possible that you, and a few like minded geniuses are so fucking
inspired that all you need to do to communicate is post a few quotes from
here, there and everywhere and follow with a line or two of "how true" and
"anyone who disagrees is working for Them". Have you never considered that
there might be rather more to this discussion thing?
Then again, thinking back, when you did post using what may have been your
own words no one could make much sense of it, so perhaps this is the
compromise we've come to. You post unwanted material to groups you don't
read, and any follow-ups are just going to be from others telling you to go
away, or from you and like minded geniuses saying "we've told you what's
happening, you haven't killed a policeman yet, so you clearly don't care
about humanity, so we won't speak to you."
Come on, please, one last try. In your own words, what would you like to
talk about (other than Bill Gates billions, or a similar off topic thing)
broadly in the area of agriculture, uk rural life, farming, etc. perhaps in
Yorkshire. Or if a narrower topic then perhaps trim a few groups.
I might be stupid, but I'm not a snob, I'll discuss pretty much anything,
with anyone, but it's damned hard to be civil when all that you send is
stuff I could (and often do) read in the newspapers.
Michael Saunby
Jim Webster
> In article <37e55b3c.01071...@posting.google.com>, James
> <jimmyh...@yahoo.com> writes
>
> >i agree that people like Jim WEbster and Michael SAuby seem to be paid
> >lackys, or at least to have some sort of hidden agenda - their bias
> >and illogic is so blatant. Then again many people really are that
> >stupid and nasty these days.
> >I've heard that some farmers expect to be able to buy up big as a
> >result of mahy others being driven to the wall by this (in my opinion
> >manufactured) crisis. Maybe they belong to that heartless and
> >parasitic class? More complimentary would be the alternative that they
> >are just unintelligent and belligerent conformists.
>
>
> Dear James,
>
>
> Nice to hear from a fellow human being for a change!
translation
nice to hear from someone who shares my particular world view.
>
> I'm glad to hear stuff from someone else for a change, that "people
> are stupid and nasty these days".
well you have been saying it so long we all took to including you in
"people" or perhaps you aren't "people"
As to farmers buying up big, and
> manufactured crisis, well, I echo that with an extremely interesting
> article below.
which is the same article he posted to the groups 14 minutes later
>
> I think a things are going to get far, far worse before things
> change.
>
one change, I cut the yorkshire local group from the replay because at least
one of their number specificially asked not to be included in massive x
postings. (However are these were merely people you probably ignored them)
> (Yesterday, and today there's been this terrible ominous howling
> wind -- like something out of Macbeth -- the same strong winds that
> killed those people at that open air concert in France. sheltering under
> that "plain" tree, and which have also caused havoc in Russia... and you
> start to think, "How long is it going to be before the weather system
> breaks, and we no longer have the Gulf Stream in Britain?")
just a hint, gulf stream is an ocean current, wind is air currents. The
current wind is nothing unusual, look back at the records
oops sorry, don't bother, they might conflict with your preconceptions
Jill Bowis
Kelly and Sandy wrote in message ...
Derek Moody
As I understand it (from a uk.business.agriculture standpoint) it violates
the charter of uk.politics.animals to post to fewer than 6 groups in one
troll.
Followups set.
Cheerio,
--
Ray Milne
but once it has been confirmed I'm afraid I'm with the culling.
AND, another group jumping on the money bandwagon, I can't see them
assisting for free, can you?.
--
Ray
Life is like a sewer,
What you get out of it depends on what
you put in it.
"Michael Saunby" <msa...@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:994926816.3156.0...@news.demon.co.uk...
Ray Milne
INCLUDE THE TRUTH, and relies solely on their interpretation of old facts,
which they continually regurgitate.
When anyone disagrees with them they are immediately labelled "lackeys" etc.
Oh well, it's the way of the world I suppose.
--
Ray
Life is like a sewer,
What you get out of it depends on what
you put in it.
"Jim Webster" <j...@websterpagebank.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:9ikn7o$u4l$1...@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
David P
> Dear Jim, I'm afraid that K&S seem to have their own agenda, which DOES
NOT
> INCLUDE THE TRUTH, and relies solely on their interpretation of old facts,
> which they continually regurgitate.
Yes, I think most folks on UBA killfiled them waaayyy back.
Jim has to have his fun though....<VBG>
--
David
www.farm-direct.co.uk
local and national farmgate sales and farming information.
Kelly and Sandy
From Corporate Watch:
http://www.corpwatch.org/news/2001/0144.html
Italy: Body Bags Stockpiled for G-8 Summit
BBC News Online June 21, 2001
Italian authorities have ordered 200 body bags as they step up
preparations for a violent confrontation at next month's G8 summit
in Genoa, say Italian media reports.
A room at the city's hospital will also be set aside as a temporary
mortuary, said Italian news agency ANSA.
The reports come amid growing concern that the G8 summit will
witness even worse confrontation than last weekend's European
meeting in Gothenburg. Tens of thousands of protesters - from
anarchists to Basque separatists - are expected to head for Genoa.
As well as the threat of street unrest, Italian authorities have
been warned that attempts may be made on the lives of some of the
world leaders present.
One threat passed on to Italy by the German secret service is of
an assassination plan by Saudi dissident Osama bin Laden, aimed at
US President George W Bush. Militant supporters of Bin Laden are
said to planning a possible bomb attack.
President Putin's personal security will also be stepped up because
of a possible threat from Chechen rebels, say his bodyguards.
Mr Putin's bodyguards have already visited Genoa and met the heads
of special services from nearly all the countries being represented
there, said Russian security chief Yevgeny Murov, head of the FSO.
"Each special service works out its own method of providing security
these days. Russia's Foreign Intelligence Service renders enormous
assistance to us, and we are in a permanent contact with them," he
said in an interview with the Russian newspaper Komsomolskaya
Pravda.
He said his agency was aware of the Bin Laden threat, and was making
its Genoa preparations in the light of them.
"We view the threats as totally serious, but hope that with joint
efforts we can solve all the problems," said Murov.
Leaders from Italy, France, Canada, the UK, Japan and Germany will
also be at the two-day summit, which starts on 20 July.
Italian authorities are preparing a huge force of 20,000 police
and soldiers, backed by the threat of tear gas, water cannon and
a formidable array of military hardware.
A "ring of steel" will be imposed on the city. Railway stations
and motorway junctions will be closed, and flights into Genoa
diverted.
In the city itself, the streets around the summit venue have been
declared as a "red zone", and will be blocked off by dozens of
armoured vehicles. Outside the red zone, some areas will be set
aside for protesters to make their views known.
Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi has said he wants dialogue
with the protesters, and stresses the legimitate right of people
to make their views known, but he has warned them that violent
extremists will be "isolated and not be allowed to do harm".
Aircraft Carriers
As the security operation continues to build up, some organisers
are still reported to be keen to switch the summit venue to a cruise
ship, which would be moored safely out at sea somewhere along the
Italian Riviera.
At least two conference leaders - President Bush and French President
Jacques Chirac - are already planning waterborne accommodation.
Both will stay on aircraft carriers while attending the summt.
Concern about security has deepened since events in Gothenburg,
when Swedish police appeared to be overwhelmed by the scale and
depth of violence.
A lavish dinner had to be cancelled and some delegations had to
switch hotels after police said they could no longer guarantee
their safety.
Three protesters were shot and dozens of police officers were hurt.
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James
> "Kelly and Sandy" <ju...@almide.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:FoTFJJAj...@almide.demon.co.uk...
>
> Hello, hello, anybody home?
>
> You're quick to criticise when I or someone else gets a little sarcastic in
> a response to one of your news postings, or should I say "news dumps". I'm
> quite sure you'll not bother explaining, but just in case you have finally
> grasped the slightest of clues. Please explain why you see fit to dump long
> postings taken from websites, newspapers, etc. apparently containing
> material dear to your heart, sharing with every group with even the
> slightest connection, and then failing to actually do what others come here
> for, i.e. debate the issues???
>
bigots who are merely trying to squash dissent, and when it goes on
and on pointlessly with these bigots trying to obfuscate the issue at
every opportunity, it is much worse than pointless, and dilutes the
original points.
James
likely to be too many from Hollywood) - another potential alternative
media along with the internet.
Michael Saunby
"James" <jimmyh...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:37e55b3c.01071...@posting.google.com...
One man's bigot is another's realist. It still doesn't excuse chucking
unwanted material at people it you're not willing to defend and discuss it.
If you can't stand a debate with people holding different views then don't
expect any thanks for spewing propaganda. Why not just put the stuff on a
web site and perhaps post a URL from time to time, rather than spamming?
The "original" points tend to lose most of their value when the poster is
either unable, or unwilling to discuss. It's rather like sticking your head
through the door of a pup and shouting "you're all fascists!" and running
away. How much value do you think that might have? (Other than giving you
an adrenaline rush)
Michael Saunby
Jim Webster
> Come on locktite Britain, wakey, wakey...
>
> From Corporate Watch:
> http://www.corpwatch.org/news/2001/0144.html
>
> Italy: Body Bags Stockpiled for G-8 Summit
>
> BBC News Online June 21, 2001
>
> Italian authorities have ordered 200 body bags as they step up
> preparations for a violent confrontation at next month's G8 summit
> in Genoa, say Italian media reports.
interesting. A city the size of genoa which doesn't have body bags already
in store in its main hospitals.
This is obvious a matter of extreme importance to uk rural and agricultural
news groups
Jim Webster
> >
> > You're quick to criticise when I or someone else gets a little sarcastic
in
> > a response to one of your news postings, or should I say "news dumps".
I'm
> > quite sure you'll not bother explaining, but just in case you have
finally
> > grasped the slightest of clues. Please explain why you see fit to dump
long
> > postings taken from websites, newspapers, etc. apparently containing
> > material dear to your heart, sharing with every group with even the
> > slightest connection, and then failing to actually do what others come
here
> > for, i.e. debate the issues???
> >
> It's all very well to debate issues, but when the debate is with
> bigots who are merely trying to squash dissent, and when it goes on
> and on pointlessly with these bigots trying to obfuscate the issue at
> every opportunity, it is much worse than pointless, and dilutes the
> original points.
exactly, now you understand how frustrated people get when dealing with
people like K&S who just spam newsgroups and cannot if they are queried,
they either ignore the points or bluster
Tim Jones
<j...@websterpagebank.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
>Kelly and Sandy <ju...@almide.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:z2wo+JAs...@almide.demon.co.uk...
>> Come on locktite Britain, wakey, wakey...
>>
>> From Corporate Watch:
>> http://www.corpwatch.org/news/2001/0144.html
>>
>> Italy: Body Bags Stockpiled for G-8 Summit
>>
>> BBC News Online June 21, 2001
>>
>> Italian authorities have ordered 200 body bags as they step up
>> preparations for a violent confrontation at next month's G8 summit
>> in Genoa, say Italian media reports.
>
>interesting. A city the size of genoa which doesn't have body bags already
>in store in its main hospitals.
>This is obvious a matter of extreme importance to uk rural and agricultural
>news groups
Oooooh I don't know if the Genoan authorities are going to "cull" a
few extremists we will probably all be better off ;))))
Tim
Apprentice Troll
Chris Croughton
<t.j...@farmline.com> wrote:
>Oooooh I don't know if the Genoan authorities are going to "cull" a
>few extremists we will probably all be better off ;))))
Or if the extremists 'cull' a few politicians. Either way we'd be
better off (and just think, fewer bodies to cause Global Warming and say
loads of stuff which takes trees to print, culling them has to be a good
idea, I reckon they should withdraw the police and let both sides fight
it out)...
Chris C
Hamish Macbeth
"Tim Jones" <t.j...@farmline.com> wrote in message
news:3b5033be...@news.lineone.net...
Jim Webster
> few extremists we will probably all be better off ;))))
>
> Tim
> Apprentice Troll
you are really going to have to work on your trolling :-))
Kelly and Sandy are the clowns who were saying DEFRA was going to kill every
sheep on Exmoor the day after the general election. Now they expect us to
believe this.
they may have been born yesterday but...........
Tim Jones
<j...@websterpagebank.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
>Tim Jones <t.j...@farmline.com> wrote in message >
>> Oooooh I don't know if the Genoan authorities are going to "cull" a
>> few extremists we will probably all be better off ;))))
>>
>> Tim
>> Apprentice Troll
>
>you are really going to have to work on your trolling :-))
>
>Kelly and Sandy are the clowns who were saying DEFRA was going to kill every
>sheep on Exmoor the day after the general election. Now they expect us to
>believe this.
>
>they may have been born yesterday but...........
Don't worry I've seen enough to know it takes a far better person than
me to get a decent reply from this pair of clowns ;)
Tim
Richard Webb
Richard Webb
Brian {Hamilton Kelly}
t.j...@farmline.com "Tim Jones" writes:
I'd rather they culled the fuckwit duo "Kelly and Sandy". If those two
morons don't stop posting substantively identical articles to multiple
groups soon, there's going to be some real complaints to their ISP.
--
Brian {Hamilton Kelly} b...@dsl.co.uk
"We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one of
distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being incr-
easingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs
David G. Bell
b...@dsl.co.uk "Brian {Hamilton Kelly}" wrote:
> In article <3b5033be...@news.lineone.net>
> t.j...@farmline.com "Tim Jones" writes:
>
> > On Sat, 14 Jul 2001 07:06:32 +0100, "Jim Webster"
> > <j...@websterpagebank.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> > >
> > >interesting. A city the size of genoa which doesn't have body bags already
> > >in store in its main hospitals.
> > >This is obvious a matter of extreme importance to uk rural and agricultural
> > >news groups
> >
> > Oooooh I don't know if the Genoan authorities are going to "cull" a
> > few extremists we will probably all be better off ;))))
>
> I'd rather they culled the fuckwit duo "Kelly and Sandy". If those two
> morons don't stop posting substantively identical articles to multiple
> groups soon, there's going to be some real complaints to their ISP.
Off-topic posts too. Anyone want to nominate a suitable example to
complain about?
--
David G. Bell -- Farmer, SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.
If I were to go back to my schooldays, knowing what I know now, I would
pack cheese sandwiches for lunch.
Jim Webster
> On Sat, 14 Jul 2001 18:42:25 +0100, "Jim Webster>
> me to get a decent reply from this pair of clowns ;)
>
> Tim
don't let it get you down. You know when you have them on the run because
they resort to vulgar abuse and insult, basically because they haven't the
knowledge of background to provide rational argument
so get yourself really slagged off by them and you'll move from apprentice
to journeyman :-))
Jim Webster
Richard Webb <gri...@crux.u-net.com> wrote in message
news:3b516024...@news.u-net.com...
> Maybe the Caribineri are better shots than the Gothenburg Police...
>
>
should be, I think they still get the paramilitary training they used to.
--
Jim Webster
"The pasture of stupidity is unwholesome to mankind"
'Abd-ar-Rahman b. Muhammad b. Khaldun al-Hadrami'
>
> Richard Webb
Steve Rawlings
GMT<995141...@dsl.co.uk>
> I'd rather they culled the fuckwit duo "Kelly and Sandy". If those two
> morons don't stop posting substantively identical articles to multiple
> groups soon, there's going to be some real complaints to their ISP.
Power to yer elbow mate, go for it!
Steve Rawlings
www.dexterbeef.co.uk
Jim Webster
"David G. Bell" <db...@zhochaka.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:20010715.11...@zhochaka.demon.co.uk...> b...@dsl.co.uk "Brian {Hamilton Kelly}" wrote> > I'd rather they
culled the fuckwit duo "Kelly and Sandy". If those two
> > morons don't stop posting substantively identical articles to multiple
> > groups soon, there's going to be some real complaints to their ISP.
>
> Off-topic posts too. Anyone want to nominate a suitable example to
> complain about?
>
If this is the same Kelly and Sandy Anderson who post to various programming
language group (see Google) then lost of ISP might be embarassing
--
Jim Webster
"The pasture of stupidity is unwholesome to mankind"
'Abd-ar-Rahman b. Muhammad b. Khaldun al-Hadrami'
>
Kelly and Sandy
Missiles to protect summit leaders
----------------------------------
by Rory Carroll in Rome
Italy has installed a missile defence system at Genoa's airport to deter
airborne attacks during next week's G8 summit, fuelling hysteria about
looming violence. A land-based battery of rockets with a range of nine
miles and an altitude of 5,000 feet has been positioned in the latest
security measure against perceived threats from terrorists and
protesters.
Unidentified planes, helicopters and balloons risk being shot down
should they drift too close to the heads of state from the group of
seven leading industrialised nations and Russia.
Colonel Alberto Battaglini, of the ministry of defence, said the
precaution was not exces sive. "The measure, which was planned by the
previous government, may seem open to criticism, but in reality it is
merely to act as a deterrent against any aerial incursion during the
summit.
"They are little missiles ... which only have a deterrent function
to discourage any aerial-led attack and they do not present any danger
to the residents of the city," he said.
The missile system, dubbed Spada, was erected along Italy's Adriatic
coast during Nato's 1999 bombing of Yugoslavia.
More than 100,000 anti-globalisation demonstrators are expected to
converge on the northern port city during the July 20-22 summit.
Keen to avoid the chaos of Gothenburg, Prague and Seattle, the
Italians will strive for maximum control by deploying thousands of riot
police, snipers and bomb disposal teams.
Yesterday Otto Schilly, Germany's interior minister, said Italy
would resurrect internal European Union border controls to block
protesters from entering the country. "I presume Italy will abandon the
Schengen accord during the G8 summit to prevent the arrival of
troublemakers."
Authorities have reportedly ordered 200 body bags, established a
temporary morgue at a hospital and arranged counselling for potentially
traumatised police officers.
The airport, port and access roads will be sealed off and some
leaders will be hosted on ships in case street battles threaten their
safety.
Most of the groups of activists - whose causes include environment
and debt forgiveness for poor countries - have pledged peaceful tactics
but the authorities are nervous. Fringe groups have pledged violence and
street clashes appear inevitable.
Unsourced stories of terrorist weapon hoards and sachets of HIV-
infected blood have appeared in the Italian media, stoking an atmosphere
of doom.
The millionaire terrorist, Osama bin Laden, has been linked to an
alleged plot to assassinate the US president, George Bush.
Italy's prime minister, Silvio Berlusconi, has inspected Genoa twice
and declared himself satisfied with the security.
( The Guardian, Wednesday July 11, 2001 )
http://www.guardian.co.uk/globalisation/story/0,7369,519925,00.html
FCS
>
> Missiles to protect summit leaders
> ----------------------------------
(snip)
Leaders for the various protest organisations planning for this event said
"Ahh, but that's what we were expecting them to do, the plan is coming
together"!
John
Michael Saunby
"Andrew Oakley" <andrew@spam_me_not_oakley.net> wrote in message
news:3b52fee1....@reader-00.news.insnet.cw.net...
> On Mon, 16 Jul 2001 12:21:20 +0100, Kelly and Sandy
>
> Why is this toxic waste particularly bad? What is toxic about it? Is
> it worse than various other gunk we regularly see dumped in the
> countryside? How do you measure this? Where is your evidence? How does
> this toxic waste compare to existing commercial and domestic landfill
> sites in Gloucestershire such as Stoke Orchard?
>
If they're digging it up it presumably is too dangerous for the countryside.
Perhaps it will be taken to cities for the construction of new schools and
hospitals.
Michael Saunby
Jill
Kelly and Sandy wrote in message ...
nothing relevant
FCS
news:9iv22k$djt$2...@phys-ma.sol.co.uk...
>
> Kelly and Sandy wrote in message ...
> nothing relevant
>
Actually, since there are a few activists about the newsgroups who might be
sufficiently wound up enough to want to go, a warning.
Having been to Italy during an organised riot by the Italian Police, it's
going to hurt big time.
John
welsh witch
--
"Kelly and Sandy" <ju...@almide.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:uvq$YLAYBu...@almide.demon.co.uk...
>
I shall be watching the US website http://www.freespeech.org
Jill
nothing relevant
Kelly and Sandy
Christopher Booker's Notebook
-----------------------------
(Filed: Sunday 15 July 2001)
Bat Battle - LAW AND DISORDER - Weight watchers - BLOOD MONEY
---------------- -----------
Bat Battle
----------
IN a Somerset council chamber last Tuesday, one of the strangest and
longest bureaucratic sagas I have ever reported entered a new phase
when, with the backing of David Attenbrough, David Bellamy and a bevy of
eminent conservationists, Tony Graham, an Australian-born engineer, came
to do battle for the right to turn a 19th-century ironworks into his
retirement home.
It was 16 years ago in 1985 that Mr Graham, who runs a Midlands
engineering firm and is a keen industrial conservationist, bought what
he thought would be his dream home: a solid pre-Victorian office
building, standing romantically behind a mill pool in a wooded gorge
near Mells, surrounded by the overgrown ruins of its disused ironworks.
Mr Graham bought the building with planning permission for a house
and was ready to start work when he was suddenly converged on from all
sides by conservationists. Bat-lovers, headed by a council "species
officer", discovered that the roof space of his house was a major
breeding site for rapidly vanishing Greater Horseshoe bats.
They designated it as a Site of Special Scientific Interest and said
the building must be left uninhabited and exactly as it was. But the
building was then listed and the Victorian Society said it must be
restored to its original condition.
Industrial archaeologists lighted on the nearby ruins and said they
must be stripped of all vegetation. Fern-lovers found rare ferns
growing on them and said the vegetation must not be touched. Mendip,
the local council, refused to allow Mr Graham to do anything until it
had formed its own view of what should happen.
In 1987 Mr Graham called a site meeting and told the various
conservationists that if only they could come up with an agreed
compromise between all their conflicting demands, he would happily
comply.
But a year later, as the impasse continued, two local boys went
splashing in the mill pool, lit a fire in the building to dry their
clothes and within hours it had been reduced to a roofless and batless
ruin.
No one knew where the bats had gone but, at public expense, a new
roost was built on the hill above the gorge. This soon filled with
Lesser Horseshoe bats but was shunned by the Greater Horseshoe variety,
which were eventually found roosting uncomfortably in the underground
ruins.
With all these delays, Mr Graham's planning consent ran out of time,
and as the council continued through the 1990s to resist any solution
that would allow him to rebuild his home, the structure continued to
decay. When its sluice gate finally decayed, the mill pool vanished
downstream.
But at least he was determined to win over the bat-lovers and, as
the site was eventually put forward for European status as a Special
Area of Conservation, Mr Graham assembled a galaxy of leading
conservationists, including Lord Attenborough, David Bellamy, Bob Corns,
the chief bat expert for English Nature and, as his own consultant, one
of Britain's leading bat experts, Dr Robert Stebbings, to support his
plans to rebuild the house including an ideal bat roost.
Not only did the council planners remain adamant in their
opposition, but when an inspector last week opened her inquiry into Mr
Graham's appeal against their third refusal of planning consent, yet
more objectors were on hand.
Local residents complained that, if Mr Graham were allowed to live
there, it would spoil their walks down the bridle path through the
gorge. A group of enthusiasts suggested that, since the ironworks was
now a scheduled Ancient Monument, Mr Graham's house would make a perfect
industrial archaeology study centre.
Yet another resident suggested the ruins should just be allowed to
continue crumbling picturesquely away. No one seemed to have any
thought of how Mr Graham might be deprived of his property, let alone
that it might be necessary to compensate him.
Meanwhile Mr Graham has been told by the Environment Agency that, if
he wishes to recreate his mill pool, he must pay them 2,000 for a report
on its effect on river flow, even though all he wants to do is reinstate
the pool to what it was 10 years ago.
Faced with all the clamant demands of the conservation-crazy modern
world, that inspector has certainly got a nice little riddle on her
hands.
Law and disorder
----------------
IF doubts have been raised over the conduct of West Yorkshire police
towards the Asian community in Bradford, another Bradford resident with
similar reason for scepticism is Dr Richard North, a research director
in the European Parliament (with whom I have co-written two books on
overmighty officialdom).
Dr North, as I reported last November, had a run-in with the West
Yorkshire constabulary after he was given a fixed penalty of 30 pounds
for
using a mobile phone while driving. Since this is not in itself an
offence, he refused to pay and wrote to the chief constable about the
officer's conduct.
When bailiffs came to his house to remove his 12,000 pound Mercedes
for a debt of 90 pounds (including costs), he sat in the car and
prevented them. They summoned six hefty policemen who arrested Dr North
for refusing to allow the bailiffs to take his car, marched him in
handcuffs to their own vehicle, held him for five hours in the police
station and charged him with obstructing them in their duty.
Dr North's defence was that neither he nor the policemen had been
shown any warrant from a court authorising them to remove the car. The
police claimed in a signed statement that both he and they had been
shown the warrant. Only after repeated requests by North's solicitors
to see this warrant was it finally produced last month. The warrant
specifically excluded the right to take vehicles. Dr North has now
heard from the Crown Prosecution Service that a prosecution would not be
"in the public interest".
As a stickler for the increasingly unfashionable principle that
policemen and officials should act within the law, Dr North now
contemplates legal action of his own.
Weight watchers
---------------
THE great metrication battle has taken an uglier turn. On Friday
magistrates in Sutton, Surrey became the first actually to deprive a man
of his livelihood for refusing to obey the EU directive that shopkeepers
may sell goods only by metric measures.
Instead of prosecuting Peter Collins, a market trader, for
continuing to sell his fruit in pounds and ounces, Sutton council tried
to do it by the back door, by withdrawing his licence to trade.
Mr Collins claimed it contravened the European Convention on Human
Rights not to allow him to earn a living by selling in the only weights
his customers understand.
The magistrates disagreed, telling Mr Collins they would order him
to pay the council's costs of 13,500 pounds if he was rash enough to
join his case to the appeal to be made later this year by the Metric
Martyrs Fund (www.metricmartyrs.com).
Outside the courtroom the fund's organiser, Neil Herron, asked a
Sutton trading standards official why they were not prosecuting Tesco
and Asda for selling milk in plastic cartons by the pint (Brussels
allows sale of milk by the pint but British regulations permit this only
when it is in glass bottles).
The official said that if a complaint was received, it would be
investigated. Mr Herron replied that he was hereby making that
complaint, and could they please get on with it. Watch this space.
Blood money
-----------
THE fact that foot and mouth is no longer regarded as news does not mean
it has gone away.
From a well-placed source I learn that the Department of the
Environment, Food and Rural Affairs now has 1,600 vets under contract
(700 more than MPs were recently told by the Secretary of State,
Margaret Beckett) and most contracts run to next May.
The vets receive 260 pounds a day, plus 22 quid meals allowance
(even though they have free board and lodging, including breakfast and
dinner) and a further 20 quid a day "stress allowance".
This equates to 78,000 pounds a year, which until five years ago was
the salary of the prime minister. Meanwhile there is of course no
"stress allowance" for the thousands of farming families who remain
trapped on their farms by movement restrictions, without income, and
whose plight is no longer considered "news".
( Sunday Telegraph, 15 July 2001 )
Jim Webster
>
> Christopher Booker's Notebook
> -----------------------------
> (Filed: Sunday 15 July 2001)
Selly and Kandy might not have realised, but the Sunday Telegraph is a news
paper widely available throughout the UK. I actually purchased a copy. So
can others. That way we ensure that Christopher Booker gets paid for his
researches. If the company puts his article up on their site this is because
they want to attract people to the site
If freeloaders keep posting it to the ng, rather than merely posting a url
this undermines the funding of people like CB.
I suspect these two clowns are too thick to grasp this
Jim Webster
>
> VETS' FURY AT FARMS CRISIS 'FAILURE'
> ------------------------------------
>
>
> YORKSHIRE VETS in the frontline of the battle against foot and mouth
> last night launched a blistering attack on DEFRA over the way it has
> handled the crisis.
>
> They accused the Government department formed last month out of the
> ashes of the old Ministry of Agriculture of lack of communication,
standard MAFF/Defra problem since 1980s
> confusion and an abject failure to co-ordinate a strategy to stem the
> disease.
>
defra cannot set policy, Treasury sets policy
> And they claimed it had kept them in the dark about key developments
> in the crisis, allowing the rumour mill to work overtime so ratcheting
> up psychological and emotional pressure on farmers already traumatised
> by the impact of the disease.
>
absolutely true, but then farmers are merely untermensch that can be slagged
off and personally insulted without thought. After all Kelly and Sandy do it
> Representatives of 26 veterinary practices across North Yorkshire
> have spoken out after months of frustration over the failure of the
> Department for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, and its
> predecessor, to deal effectively with the emergency.
>
> They warned that the rural economy was in freefall and there was a
> danger that many farms might not only be unable to produce anything this
> year, but also next.
rural economy has been in free fall for several years, where were you then
kelly and sandy?
note that apparently uk local yorkshire has a limit on 4 cross postings. K &
S might be too ignorant to cope with this but I am not so have reduced the x
postings
Jim Webster
>
> Farmers in Blockade over 11 million pound disease bill
> ------------------------------------------------------
> by David Brown
> Agriculture Editor
>
>
> FARMERS blockaded Government offices in Worcester with tractors
> yesterday to demand 11.5 million pounds in payment for work to clear
> farms hit by foot and mouth disease.
>
> Thirty farmers representing 600 members of Farm Assist, an
> organisation commissioned by the Government to clear more than 100,000
> carcasses from 200 farms, protested that they had not been paid what
> they were owed for four months' work.
not merely farmers, slaughterers, vets etc have not been paid. This is
normal for MAFF which is something you were perfectly happy with for many
years. why are you getting excitable about it now?
MAFF always paid two thirds, six months late and the rest in three
installments over the next two years. But it didn't matter because it was
only farmers.
Note also that will K&S are too stupid to realise that most groups dislike
multiple x postings I am not so have cut them.
--
Jim Webster
"The pasture of stupidity is unwholesome to mankind"
'Abd-ar-Rahman b. Muhammad b. Khaldun al-Hadrami'
Kelly and Sandy <ju...@almide.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:EJDVB9A$m4U7...@almide.demon.co.uk...
>
> Farmers in Blockade over 11 million pound disease bill
> ------------------------------------------------------
> by David Brown
> Agriculture Editor
>
>
> FARMERS blockaded Government offices in Worcester with tractors
> yesterday to demand 11.5 million pounds in payment for work to clear
> farms hit by foot and mouth disease.
>
> Thirty farmers representing 600 members of Farm Assist, an
> organisation commissioned by the Government to clear more than 100,000
> carcasses from 200 farms, protested that they had not been paid what
> they were owed for four months' work.
not merely farmers, slaughterers, vets etc have not been paid. This is
normal for MAFF which is something you were perfectly happy with for many
years. why are you getting excitable about it now?
MAFF always paid two thirds, six months late and the rest in three
installments over the next two years. But it didn't matter because it was
only farmers.
Note also that will K&S are too stupid to realise that most groups dislike
multiple x postings I am not so have cut them.
Ivan...@rope.freeserve.co.uk
<ju...@almide.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>That is why MrCHAD has been told, by another friend, that in St.
>Braivels in The Forest of Dean they are NOW digging up the buried ash
>from the burn pyre.
Some corrections...
1. It's 'St Briavels', not St Braivels.
2. There are no grounds for treating pyre ash as 'Toxic Waste'. To be
classed as Special Wastes, the ash would need to meet certain
criteria. It does not meet these. It is simply being landfilled for
the same reason that you'd landfill most ash from a fire (or would
you scatter the contents of your fire on your garden?), namely that
clinker and ash aren't terribly good for the soil. This doesn't make
them 'Toxic', however.
3. This is being undertaken following advice from the Environment
Agency. It's sod all to do with your local EH dept.
4. The locals (I'm one) aren't terribly concerned. If you knew what
had been historically buried around the Forest of Dean, then you'd
agree that pyre ash is of little significance in the great scheme of
things.
Sorry to let facts get in the way of sensationalism.
Ivan
welsh witch
--
"Jim Webster" <j...@websterpagebank.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:9isndp$mmb$3...@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
I saw a film recently and i wonder if they really do need body bags in
Genoa.The film was about the war and they herded every one into the
cattacombs (The Germans that is) shot them all in there and closed the
mouth of the cave....The TV cameras are being stopped too by the looks
of it so how will we know and how many of the Bilderberg Group will be
thee?
http://www.walk-wales.org.uk
http://www.rogerdean.com
http://www.walk-wales.org.uk
http://www.rogerdean.com
>
>
FCS
news:+fs70KAF...@almide.demon.co.uk...
(snip)
> o feels the government has been doing an excellent job and the
> current policy is absolutely the right policy and they have
> evidence to submit why this is the case
You may wish to reword this part as those who believe the current policy is
absolutely right might not feel the Government has been doing an excellent
job.
John
Michael Saunby
<Ivan...@rope.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3b54cfbf...@news.freeserve.net...
>
> 2. There are no grounds for treating pyre ash as 'Toxic Waste'. To be
> classed as Special Wastes, the ash would need to meet certain
> criteria. It does not meet these. It is simply being landfilled for
> the same reason that you'd landfill most ash from a fire (or would
> you scatter the contents of your fire on your garden?), namely that
> clinker and ash aren't terribly good for the soil. This doesn't make
> them 'Toxic', however.
>
Actually I'd say that the rural tradition is to simply throw ash from fires
on to the garden. Rural rubbish collection are a very, very recent thing
and indeed in many households ash just gets thrown on the garden even now. I
have to carry any rubbish I want to go to land fill to the end of the lane,
this is true for many farms and other rural properties in the UK. I'm not
going to carry ash or anything that will rot, there's no point.
When I'm digging and encounter an old midden, about all that remains is
glass, pottery, and sometimes a few pairs of leather boots, and this is
from a time, perhaps are recently 50 years ago when no waste was collected
from this farm. The waste from centuries of living is slowly rotting away on
this farm, and thousands of others.
Michael Saunby
Ivan...@rope.freeserve.co.uk
<msa...@despammed.com> wrote:
>Actually I'd say that the rural tradition is to simply throw ash from fires
>on to the garden. Rural rubbish collection are a very, very recent thing
>and indeed in many households ash just gets thrown on the garden even now. I
>have to carry any rubbish I want to go to land fill to the end of the lane,
>this is true for many farms and other rural properties in the UK. I'm not
>going to carry ash or anything that will rot, there's no point.
Indeed. However, coal ash isn't terribly good for the soil - heavy
metals and all that.
>
>When I'm digging and encounter an old midden, about all that remains is
>glass, pottery, and sometimes a few pairs of leather boots, and this is
>from a time, perhaps are recently 50 years ago when no waste was collected
>from this farm. The waste from centuries of living is slowly rotting away on
>this farm, and thousands of others.
Quite. Agricultural waste still isn't classified as controlled waste,
and the practice is still widespread. Unfortunately, todays wastes are
less innocuous than those of a few hundred years ago. I've seen
half-filled pesticide containers, OP sheepdip, old fridges, car
engines, tyres etc. on farm dumps. There are moves afoot shortly to
bring this waste under the same control as all other wastes.
Ivan
Jim Webster
welsh witch <welsh...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:9j3heg$hnc$1...@uranium.btinternet.com...
> I saw a film recently and i wonder if they really do need body bags in
> Genoa.The film was about the war and they herded every one into the
> cattacombs (The Germans that is) shot them all in there and closed the
> mouth of the cave....The TV cameras are being stopped too by the looks
> of it so how will we know and how many of the Bilderberg Group will be
> thee?
standard technique. The US troops used it in the pacific. If you get trouble
from people in a cave, just throw in enough explosives to quieten things
down and perhaps even bring down the mouth of the cave. Talking to men of my
grandfathers generation it was a popular enough technique in the great war
when faced with an enemy bunker.
I don't think that the current Authorities in Genoa are the lineal
descendants of the German Nazi party,
--
Jim Webster
"The pasture of stupidity is unwholesome to mankind"
'Abd-ar-Rahman b. Muhammad b. Khaldun al-Hadrami'
Ixt
extremist just a very caring 19yo who is trying to stop some of the
horror and can find people who feel the same at these protests they
don't have the answers in a nutshell they just know that things need
to change and are prepared to risk being beaten and shot to keep the
pressure on .
I hope you watched John Pilger last night "The New Rulers of the World
"on Indonesia.
If anyone wants to track the protest in genoa you can find news and
radio stations at indiemedia like
http://clients.loudeye.com/imc/italy/genetotal.mp3
Kelly and Sandy
<stop_the_...@hotmail.com> wrote
While we were walking our puppies on the beach at Whitby the other
day, we met a boy, a young man, coming the other way who was collecting
stones. He was unusual in that from 200 yards away, you felt that here
was someone you could come up to and talk with.
He turned out to be on holiday, and had just had a (teenage) row
with his family who were all on holiday. Come September, he was on his
way to Cambridge University to do an Arts subject. He wanted really to
act, but the "actor's life" today is as conformist as everything else,
and he was a rare enough individual to allow us to know he knew it, and
was apologetic about not feeling 100% earnest at the moment in pursuing
that ambition.
We spent an hour all told, watching the roaring seas and the puppies
on the sand, and talking and throwing stones, and at the end of it --
his family saloon arrived back -- we had all realized that the most
productive, worthwhile and purposeful thing for him to do would be to
chuck all the tramlines that are being laid down for his generation, and
go to Genoa and the like, putting his energies into that pariah sphere.
. . . . .
It's only at odd rare moments like this that you realize just how
clapped out and finished the modern world is.
With kind regards,
Sandy
/* C A U T I O N E X P L O S I V E B O L T S
-- REMOVE BEFORE ENGAGING REPLY
//
// Kelly and Sandy Anderson <kel...@explosive-alma-services-bolts.co.uk>
// (alternatively kelsan_odoodle at ya who period, see oh em)
// Alexander (Sandy) 1B5A DF3D A3D9 B932 39EB 3F1B 981F 4110 27E1 64A4
// Kelly 673F 6751 6DBA 196F E8A8 6D87 4AEC F35E E9AD 099B
// Homepages http://www.explosive-alma-services-bolts.co.uk/
*/
peaceful
"Michael Saunby" <msa...@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:995447480.23179.0...@news.demon.co.uk...
Jim Webster
peaceful <peac...@whenwillulearn.death> wrote in message
news:9jnlq6$35b$1...@plutonium.btinternet.com...
> >
> Even that many diseased animals?
>
after so long clinker is only clinker
Michael Saunby
"peaceful" <peac...@whenwillulearn.death> wrote in message
news:9jnlq6$35b$1...@plutonium.btinternet.com...
(BIG SNIP)
> Even that many diseased animals?
?
FCS
It may surprise you but apparently Churchill considered turning Germany into
something so toxic nothing would be living there today.
John
"Kelly and Sandy" <ju...@almide.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:XR8R3KA2...@almide.demon.co.uk...
>
> Future terrorists may use
> -------------------------
> foot-and-mouth as biological weapon
> -----------------------------------
>
>
> Zoologists in Vienna have warned foot-and-mouth disease could be used as
> a biological weapon.
>
> They say socio-economic biological weapons would be more effective
> than either bombs or bullets.
>
> Terrorists or aggressive nations could weaken an enemy's economy
> just by spreading the virus.
>
> Writing in the journal Science Johannes Rath and Jochen Buergel say:
> "Today's agriculture is characterised by mass production, live animal
> transports and division of work.
>
> "That is a situation causing numerous problems when it comes to
> controlling catalysts such as that of the foot-and-mouth epidemic."
>
> They say the recent effects on the UK agriculture and tourism
> industries shows how devastating such a tactic could be.
>
>
> Story filed: 15:54 Tuesday 31st July 2001
>
>
>
>
> http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_364121.html
Brian {Hamilton Kelly}
> Sorry to disappoint you but this was thought about before I was born.
>
> It may surprise you but apparently Churchill considered turning Germany into
> something so toxic nothing would be living there today.
What, you mean something like Usenet since the advent of Kelly & Sandy?
--
Brian {Hamilton Kelly} b...@dsl.co.uk
"We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one of
distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being incr-
easingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs
Cliff Morrison
<joh...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> Sorry to disappoint you but this was thought about before I was born.
>
> It may surprise you but apparently Churchill considered turning Germany into
> something so toxic nothing would be living there today.
Anthrax.
Jim Webster
Kelly and Sandy <ju...@almide.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:XR8R3KA2...@almide.demon.co.uk...
>
> Future terrorists may use
> -------------------------
> foot-and-mouth as biological weapon
> -----------------------------------
why do you think so much is known about fmd, especially among US defence
experts. FMD was apparently the first virus crystallised and because of its
virulence and virtual total safety toward humans it has been regarded as a
potential economic war weapon for generations.
multiple x postings cut
Doug
Cliff Morrison <cli...@post.almac.co.uk> writes
I have said many times, - The people who should be in the forefront of
the investigations into the present outbreaks of Foot and Mouth disease
in this Country should be,
MI6, MI5, The Police.
In that order.
Doug.
Jim Webster
J B <i.don...@my.email.address.invalid> wrote in message
news:SAP97.17712$ip4.4...@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...
> "Rev T. N. Nurse" <tnn...@XYZ.usa.net> wrote in message
> news:tnnurse-ya0235800...@130.209.34.15...
> <about selly&kandy>
> > 1] This article is copyright to Horse and Hound. You have their
permission
> to
> > use it?
> > 2] This article exceeds the crossposting limits for many of the groups
you
> are
> > posting it to. The BI limit is 20. Exceeding that can result in a
> formal
> > complaint to your ISP. See news.admin.net-abuse.usenet for more
> details.
> > 3] This article, rather than being a new article, is simply an
appendment
> to
> > an entirely different thread but with all the old text replaced by
new
> > but retaining the original references in the header. This, of course,
> > means that the threading will be incorrect and is contrary Internet
> > standard RFC1036 - Standard for Interchange of USENET Messages.
> > I understand that Demon, your ISP (ab...@demon.net), take a very dim
view
> > of this sort of net abuse. Perhaps you should take some time to learn to
> > post properly. I believe that your ISP has some very helpful
documentation
> > on this.
>
> Look you lot ........ either do what I do (killfile them), or complain to
> their ISP, and stop posting yer complaints here for nobody to take notice
> of!
actually it does at least give you chapter and verse to use when you lauch
your complain, and even ensures that you know who to email
x postings cut to a manageable level
>
>
> --
> J B
>
>
Jeremy
news:XR8R3KA2...@almide.demon.co.uk...
>
> Future terrorists may use
> -------------------------
> foot-and-mouth as biological weapon
> -----------------------------------
>
>
> Zoologists in Vienna have warned foot-and-mouth disease could be used as
> a biological weapon.
This would only work as a weapon used against a country ruled by the NFU.
cordially,
Jeremy.
Chris Croughton
<tnn...@XYZ.usa.net> wrote:
>> ( Horse & Hound, page 83, Thursday 5 July 2001 )
>
>1] This article is copyright to Horse and Hound. You have their permission to
> use it?
If they do, they've never responded to questions about copyright for
what they post. Assume therefore that they don't have permission and
send their article to the H&H people.
>2] This article exceeds the crossposting limits for many of the groups you are
> posting it to. The BI limit is 20. Exceeding that can result in a formal
> complaint to your ISP. See news.admin.net-abuse.usenet for more details.
Actually, the Briedbart Index is used to justify auto-cancelling spam,
and they aren't exceeding it anyway. However, they /are/ not only
exceeding the x-posting limits for several of the groups but they are
also posting to both a .misc and a named group in the same hierarchy
(uk.politics).
>3] This article, rather than being a new article, is simply an appendment to
> an entirely different thread but with all the old text replaced by new
> but retaining the original references in the header. This, of course,
> means that the threading will be incorrect and is contrary Internet
> standard RFC1036 - Standard for Interchange of USENET Messages.
>
>I understand that Demon, your ISP (ab...@demon.net), take a very dim view
>of this sort of net abuse. Perhaps you should take some time to learn to
>post properly. I believe that your ISP has some very helpful documentation
>on this.
Please report them to ab...@demon.net for this. I have done but have
had nothing except an automated reply so far, if many people complain
then perhaps they will take action.
Chris C
Chris Mead
from ch...@keristor.org (Chris Croughton) contains these words:
Complaints to abuse about Jules and Sandy.
> Please report them to ab...@demon.net for this. I have done but have
> had nothing except an automated reply so far, if many people complain
> then perhaps they will take action.
> Chris C
Demon told me that the complaint I sent was not justified under their rules.
--
Chris Mead, Hilborough, Norfolk
chris...@zetnet.co.uk or chris...@farm-direct.co.uk
Visit http://www.farm-direct.co.uk/ to find your local farm gate outlets
Visit http://www.birdcare.com/birdon for bird information
David G. Bell
chris...@zetnet.co.uk "Chris Mead" wrote:
> The message <slrn9mgc0e...@dayspring.firedrake.org>
> from ch...@keristor.org (Chris Croughton) contains these words:
>
> Complaints to abuse about Jules and Sandy.
>
> > Please report them to ab...@demon.net for this. I have done but have
> > had nothing except an automated reply so far, if many people complain
> > then perhaps they will take action.
>
> > Chris C
>
> Demon told me that the complaint I sent was not justified under their rules.
I didn't even get that.
--
David G. Bell -- Farmer, SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.
If I were to go back to my schooldays, knowing what I know now, I would
pack cheese sandwiches for lunch.
FCS
"Cliff Morrison" <cli...@post.almac.co.uk> wrote in message
news:cliffm-0108...@th-gt148-253.pool.dircon.co.uk...
Sometimes it does take the scientific community a bit of time to catch up
with what's going on in the World.
Still, now they know it wasn't an amazing discovery.
John
FCS
news:unJbCWAf...@yarlside.demon.co.uk...
It's about this time that Pat chips in with who the Government sends round
to visit you.
John
FCS
news:3b685dd3...@news.btconnect.com...
(snip)
> FMD is utterly underwhelming in its impact when you realise that (a)
> mass vaccination is cheap, feasible and effective and (b) it is only
> really an economic ailment, and a small one at that, not a serious
> hazard.
Those are interesting statements but you haven't backed them up with
anything, and your opening statements appear to contradict what you are
saying here.
However, if you truly have found the answers the World has been waiting for,
please do not keep them to yourself.
A hell of a lot more than you are currently providing us, just to prove you
fully understand the issues, and the impact your plan is going to have on
them is required. If you've got something there are plenty of people
watching who can fill in the blanks and can analyse the impact on the issues
you didn't know about.
Don't be shy.
John
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Am I really the only libertarian republican atheist eurosceptic...?
> http://www.euangray.com
>
> Remove nospam to reply
Dal
possibly been introduced into Britain maliciously?
Dal.
Brian {Hamilton Kelly}
> "Euan Gray" <eu...@nospameuangray.com> wrote in message
> news:3b685dd3...@news.btconnect.com...
>
> (snip)
>
> > FMD is utterly underwhelming in its impact when you realise that (a)
> > mass vaccination is cheap, feasible and effective and (b) it is only
> > really an economic ailment, and a small one at that, not a serious
> > hazard.
>
> Those are interesting statements but you haven't backed them up with
> anything, and your opening statements appear to contradict what you are
> saying here.
>
> However, if you truly have found the answers the World has been waiting for,
> please do not keep them to yourself.
There was a very cogent report in the Daily Telegraph soon after the
start of the present outbreak, which described the actions of some peer
of the realm who had a large estate (with, IIRC, many rare breeds) during
an earlier outbreak (possibly pre-WWII).
The said peer had observed that the Masai (or the Zulu, or some other
tribe) in a part of Africa in which FMD was *endemic*, used to treat the
symptoms for the comfort of animals, and that eventually they recovered.
The peer put this husbnadry into practice (having had to ask for special
dispensation rather than pursue the slaughter route), and 90+% of his
cattle recovered.
AIUI, this alternative of treatment is vastly more expensive than the
slaughter route, which is why ANY cheapskate government is going to
enfore the latter.
Jeremy
> What is being said here? Is it being suggested that FMD has
> possibly been introduced into Britain maliciously?
> Dal.
Mostly by British farmers, it appears.
cordially,
Jeremy.
Rev T. N. Nurse
<môgådöñjøhñ20...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 1 Aug 2001 19:12:28 +0100, "J B"
> <i.don...@my.email.address.invalid> wrote:
>
> >"Chris Croughton" <ch...@keristor.org> wrote in message
> >news:slrn9mgc0e...@dayspring.firedrake.org...
> >
> >> Please report them to ab...@demon.net for this. I have done but have
> >> had nothing except an automated reply so far, if many people complain
> >> then perhaps they will take action.
> >
> ><< Thank you for your correspondence - your message :
> > [Demon Internet ABUSE #110208] kelly & sandy
> >has been received and assigned incident number: 110208. >>
>
> Lovely, the netKKKops strike again.
That's right. If people refuse to comply with the rules agreed for the
orderly running of a newsgroup and wilfully break them despite being
advised of their error, they will be reported. That's why the mechanism
is there in the first place. Run along now, little child.
--
Note new signature
Jim Webster
Brian {Hamilton Kelly} <b...@dsl.co.uk> wrote in message
news:996712...@dsl.co.uk...
> In article <9k9qtp$9c8$1...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk> joh...@my-deja.com "FCS"
writes:
>
> > "Euan Gray" <eu...@nospameuangray.com> wrote in message
> > news:3b685dd3...@news.btconnect.com...
> >
> > (snip)
> >
> > > FMD is utterly underwhelming in its impact when you realise that (a)
> > > mass vaccination is cheap, feasible and effective and (b) it is only
> > > really an economic ailment, and a small one at that, not a serious
> > > hazard.
> >
> > Those are interesting statements but you haven't backed them up with
> > anything, and your opening statements appear to contradict what you are
> > saying here.
> >
> > However, if you truly have found the answers the World has been waiting
for,
> > please do not keep them to yourself.
>
> There was a very cogent report in the Daily Telegraph soon after the
> start of the present outbreak, which described the actions of some peer
> of the realm who had a large estate (with, IIRC, many rare breeds) during
> an earlier outbreak (possibly pre-WWII).
>
yes, if I remember the numbers he had two staff per milk cow and merely
quarantined his entre estate. With that number of staff he could do a lot.
However those were in the days before the minimum wage and working hours
directive, and back then food was worth a lot more compared to wages. Now,
if you locked up one person with one cow, in two weeks their wage would cost
more than the cow was worth.
> The said peer had observed that the Masai (or the Zulu, or some other
> tribe) in a part of Africa in which FMD was *endemic*, used to treat the
> symptoms for the comfort of animals, and that eventually they recovered.
> The peer put this husbnadry into practice (having had to ask for special
> dispensation rather than pursue the slaughter route), and 90+% of his
> cattle recovered.
note that endemic and epidemic are very different indeed. Most livestock in
an area where the disease is endemic pick up some resistance due to contact
with weakened strains
>
> AIUI, this alternative of treatment is vastly more expensive than the
> slaughter route, which is why ANY cheapskate government is going to
> enfore the latter.
>
it is not merely more expensive, it is impossible. There are no longer the
number of people available to do the work. Are we going to conscript
stockmen? there is no longer the proportion of the population who know
anything about livestock handling
Jim Webster
Jeremy <jeremy...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a57e49c6.01080...@posting.google.com...
wouldn't care to explain how would you?
FCS
> start of the present outbreak, which described the actions of some peer
> of the realm who had a large estate (with, IIRC, many rare breeds) during
> an earlier outbreak (possibly pre-WWII).
>
> The said peer had observed that the Masai (or the Zulu, or some other
> tribe) in a part of Africa in which FMD was *endemic*, used to treat the
> symptoms for the comfort of animals, and that eventually they recovered.
> The peer put this husbnadry into practice (having had to ask for special
> dispensation rather than pursue the slaughter route), and 90+% of his
> cattle recovered.
>
> AIUI, this alternative of treatment is vastly more expensive than the
> slaughter route, which is why ANY cheapskate government is going to
> enfore the latter.
1) Farmers and businesses have rights which we all rely upon. Scrap the foot
and mouth plan and farmers/businesses have every right to enforce their
rights. Even the lowest of the low in the land would expect the farmers to
enforce their rights because if they don't it may effect them.
The only trouble with this plan is that every farmer would effectively go
out of work overnight and end up with nothing. Somebody along the way might
end up with something, but the effect on the economy as a whole would be
total disaster. We would effectively have to go to war to rescue the
situation. Steal another country's livestock, and we'd do it.
2) Vaccination. Due to foreseeable problems with allowing farmers to self
regulate vaccination this would have to be enforced by law. Since
vaccination is not the wonderdrug we are looking for, it isn't effective,
the Government would still have to compensate the farmer for loss of stock
due to vaccination breakdown because it is enforced by law. End result quick
death of farming due to lower prices and huge annual compensation bill to
the Government. There are environmental consequences to consider as well.
You're back at one.
3) Treatment. With or without vaccination. Does treatment of a highly
contagious disease make good sense when such infection can spread to next
door's herd/flock? Smart drugs might be able to overcome this problem, but I
don't know that. You're back at one.
4) Slaughter. A well thought out policy which guarantees the rights of the
farmer to compensation as opposed to one, which guarantees bankruptcy
immediately or in the short term. This is also the cheapest option for the
taxpayer. There are even rights of appeal for the farmer included.
Effectively, even though it is out of the public purse, all the civil rights
that everyone in this country relies upon are protected. It's the closest
you can get to how the situation would be if there was no legislation with
the exception that farming, a basic need of everybody, at least has a chance
to survive. We cheated in order to produce the best possible result. This is
the happiest everyone could ever be in the circumstances.
5) A new New World Order. Scrap the entire legal system, Government,
everything and replace it with something else. With what? Would the general
public want their civil rights back? If you could get complete global
co-operation for two and three above you might be onto something, but why
should a country that can have huge gaps between outbreaks be forced to
suffer regular outbreaks as a result of vaccination breakdown? Surely no
vaccination is the cheapest option for them?
6) Eradication. What everybody wants. Global co-operation assured. Doesn't
exist. Can be worked towards in the meantime through sensible use of
regulations within the farming industry and not dismantling necessary
safeguards to prevent infection and the spread of the disease.
Human Beings. A peculiar creature that exists, eats, drinks, and makes more
human beings but has delusions concerning their right to happiness. Nobody
guaranteed them this right and they are taught from a very early age that
God kicked their kind out of paradise a long time ago, but still they expect
it. This despite a history of inflicting harm and suffering on each other
since being kicked out of paradise and is something they are still very good
at today. Often referred to as human nature.
Farmers. Have a recent history of using slaves to work their land thus
inflicting suffering on human beings. As we can see with the above
definition of human beings this type of behaviour is in keeping with that of
a human being. Farmers can now be considered human beings. Now unhappy and
crying that they are being used as slaves. Guess what? It's the same for
everybody! Welcome to the real World.
Which of you is going to cry "I'm Spartacus" first?
Bottom line is if I'm hungry, unable to afford food, I would steal your
stock to feed myself, kill you if you got in my way, and hang for it if I
got caught. I don't have a problem with war, civil, nuclear, or otherwise, I
would do it. I'd fight to the last drop of your blood and mine if necessary.
It's in my nature.
Human beings have the right to suffer only, and this can and is going to be
inflicted upon you by the powers that be in your lifetime. Nature dictates
this to us.
All your beliefs in happiness and well being for all are social constructs
and therefore fundementally flawed. Our civilised attempt at denying nature.
The best you can hope for is to endure less suffering than the next man and
allow others to think of ways of preventing unnecessary suffering or the
suffering a wrong. They'll usually find other ways of making you suffer
unnecessarily instead because it's in their nature and therefore not a
wrong!
If you are happy with suffering that's your choice and you have a right to
it. Nobody asked to be born.
The current legislation is the least worst for everybody and everybody
suffers.
Foot and mouth is a virus, what the hell did you expect?
If there was any practical use of the Zulu's treatment it would have been
developed by now and be actively marketed by the pharmaceuticals.
John
Steve Rawlings
-0700<a57e49c6.01080...@posting.google.com>
> > What is being said here? Is it being suggested that FMD has
> > possibly been introduced into Britain maliciously?
>
> Mostly by British farmers, it appears.
Another resident from under a bridge?
Steve Rawlings
www.dexterbeef.co.uk