meaning of "cunning"
J. Vassiliou
--
J.Vassiliou
Molly Mockford
<1g6i3u9.1y2vpk0vf4745N%jh...@yahoo.co.uk>:
>Is the meaning of the word "cunning" different in England or the U.S.?
Yes, very much so. In UK English, cunning means clever, knowing - but
with a pejorative aspect. "Cunning like the fox" is the best example.
In US English, it's a compliment - "What a cunning little hat!"
In much the same way, "cute" took on the same meaning in the US, whereas
its original sense (acute) was sharp, aware, intelligent.
--
Molly Mockford
I think I've been too long on my own, but the little green goblin that
lives under the sink says I'm OK - and he's never wrong, so I must be!
(My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.)
John Hall
J. Vassiliou <jh...@yahoo.co.uk> writes:
>Is the meaning of the word "cunning" different in England or the U.S.?
>
>
say "England and the US", rather than "England or the US".
--
John Hall
"Banking was conceived in iniquity and born in sin"
Sir Josiah Stamp, a former president of the Bank of England
Phil C.
<nos...@mollymockford.me.uk> wrote:
>On Thu, 25 Dec 2003, J. Vassiliou <jh...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in
><1g6i3u9.1y2vpk0vf4745N%jh...@yahoo.co.uk>:
>
>>Is the meaning of the word "cunning" different in England or the U.S.?
>
>Yes, very much so. In UK English, cunning means clever, knowing - but
>with a pejorative aspect. "Cunning like the fox" is the best example.
>In US English, it's a compliment - "What a cunning little hat!"
FWIW, historically cunning just meant wise. The local
herbalist/witch/quack was known as a cunning woman or man. As I
recall, it was a cunning woman who was jealous of a rival that kicked
off the great East Anglian witch hunts of the C17th.
It does also retain a less pejorative sense in UK English as
"ingenious"- a cunning plan or, erm, stunt. I assume it has some
etymological link to "ken" (as well as "can") but this isn't clear in
my dictionaries.
I wonder if UK and US audiences interpret the Janacek opera title "The
Cunning Little Vixen" in different ways.
--
Phil C.
Dave Fawthrop
| It does also retain a less pejorative sense in UK English as
| "ingenious"- a cunning plan or, erm, stunt. I assume it has some
| etymological link to "ken" (as well as "can") but this isn't clear in
| my dictionaries.
I always assumed that the etymological link was to "cunt" which makes an
odd sort of sense. This would account for the pejorative element.
Dave F
Molly Mockford
<h6jluvoc0pub9kp3g...@4ax.com>:
>It does also retain a less pejorative sense in UK English as
>"ingenious"- a cunning plan or, erm, stunt. I assume it has some
>etymological link to "ken" (as well as "can") but this isn't clear in
>my dictionaries.
As a Scot, I had always assumed cunning=kenning, although bearing
different baggage.
>I wonder if UK and US audiences interpret the Janacek opera title "The
>Cunning Little Vixen" in different ways.
Never thought of that! :-)
J. Vassiliou
> Molly has answered your question, so I'll merely point out that we would
> say "England and the US", rather than "England or the US".
Thank you all for your answers, I couldn't hope for more. John thanks
for pointing that out for me; in fact I thought there was something
wrong with it as I was writing it.
Happy Holidays to everyone.
--
J.Vassiliou
Molly Mockford
<1g6l6fd.1gfzcmnesloseN%jh...@yahoo.co.uk>:
>Happy Holidays to everyone.
And to you. However, since this is the UK, not the US, we say "Happy
Christmas" and "Happy New Year" rather than "Happy Holidays".
David
Molly Mockford <nos...@mollymockford.me.uk> wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Dec 2003, J. Vassiliou <jh...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in
> <1g6l6fd.1gfzcmnesloseN%jh...@yahoo.co.uk>:
> >Happy Holidays to everyone.
> And to you. However, since this is the UK, not the US, we say "Happy
> Christmas" and "Happy New Year" rather than "Happy Holidays".
Surely it's "Merry Christmas" and "Happy New Year"?
--
http://www.dacha.freeuk.com/ada/08-0.htm
Since giving birth to our fifty-seventh child,
my wife has gone off connubial relations.
Molly Mockford
<4c66f3e...@dacha.freeuk.com>:
>In article <WkyTgOF3QG7$Ew...@molly.mockford>,
> Molly Mockford <nos...@mollymockford.me.uk> wrote:
>> And to you. However, since this is the UK, not the US, we say "Happy
>> Christmas" and "Happy New Year" rather than "Happy Holidays".
>
>Surely it's "Merry Christmas" and "Happy New Year"?
I think both "Happy Christmas" and "Merry Christmas" are usual. However,
if one says "Merry New Year" instead of "Happy New Year", one is assumed
to be making jocular reference to the about of drink to be consumed.
David
<nos...@mollymockford.me.uk> wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Dec 2003, David <da...@dacha.freeuk.com> wrote in
> <4c66f3e...@dacha.freeuk.com>:
> >In article <WkyTgOF3QG7$Ew...@molly.mockford>, Molly Mockford
> > <nos...@mollymockford.me.uk> wrote:
> >> And to you. However, since this is the UK, not the US, we say
> >> "Happy Christmas" and "Happy New Year" rather than "Happy
> >> Holidays".
> >
> >Surely it's "Merry Christmas" and "Happy New Year"?
> I think both "Happy Christmas" and "Merry Christmas" are usual.
> However, if one says "Merry New Year" instead of "Happy New Year",
> one is assumed to be making jocular reference to the
> about of drink to be consumed.
^^^^^
Or the about already consumed ?:-)
Hope you're having a good time!
--
http://www.dacha.freeuk.com/yds/9rc-0.htm
The Yorkshire Dialect Society: Records & Cassetes
Molly Mockford
>In article <$1qJkAGWKH7$Ew...@molly.mockford>, Molly Mockford
><nos...@mollymockford.me.uk> wrote:
>> However, if one says "Merry New Year" instead of "Happy New Year",
>> one is assumed to be making jocular reference to the
>> about of drink to be consumed.
> ^^^^^
>
>Or the about already consumed ?:-)
>
>Hope you're having a good time!
Only water so far today, although I'm about to pour myself a
gin'n'tonic. Tanqueray gin, my Christmas treat. Yesterday I had some
champagne (3 bottles between 4 of us) and a very nice bottle of Pouilly
Fouisse, so today I'm cooling it slightly.
Mike Stevens
"David" <da...@dacha.freeuk.com> wrote in message
news:4c66f3e...@dacha.freeuk.com...
> In article <WkyTgOF3QG7$Ew...@molly.mockford>,
> Molly Mockford <nos...@mollymockford.me.uk> wrote:
> > On Fri, 26 Dec 2003, J. Vassiliou <jh...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in
> > <1g6l6fd.1gfzcmnesloseN%jh...@yahoo.co.uk>:
>
> > >Happy Holidays to everyone.
>
> > And to you. However, since this is the UK, not the US, we say
"Happy
> > Christmas" and "Happy New Year" rather than "Happy Holidays".
>
> Surely it's "Merry Christmas" and "Happy New Year"?
Or else the other way about, I'm never sure. Are you? (as for camels).
--
Mike Stevens, narrowboat Felis Catus II
web site www.mike-stevens.co.yk
Old grammarians never die, they simply parse away.
Mike Stevens
news:$1qJkAGWKH7$Ew...@molly.mockford...
> However,
> if one says "Merry New Year" instead of "Happy New Year", one is
assumed
> to be making jocular reference to the about of drink to be consumed.
And, perhaps, to the verbal confusion which is likely to ensue,
especialy amount the about of drink involved.
--
Mike Stevens, narrowboat Felis Catus II
web site www.mike-stevens.co.uk
"Million-to-one chances come up nine times out of ten." (Terry
Pratchett)
Matthew Huntbach
> On Fri, 26 Dec 2003, David <da...@dacha.freeuk.com> wrote:
> > Molly Mockford <nos...@mollymockford.me.uk> wrote:
>>> And to you. However, since this is the UK, not the US, we say
"Happy
>>> Christmas" and "Happy New Year" rather than "Happy Holidays".
>> Surely it's "Merry Christmas" and "Happy New Year"?
> I think both "Happy Christmas" and "Merry Christmas" are usual. However,
> if one says "Merry New Year" instead of "Happy New Year", one is assumed
> to be making jocular reference to the about of drink to be consumed.
My understanding is that in the US (at least until political
correctness caused "happy holidays" to be invented) it has to be
"Merry Christmas" but in the UK "Happy Christmas" is fine. Indeed,
"Merry Christmas" has always struck me as an Americanism, though
Dickens used it, didn't he, so it can't always have been.
Matthew Huntbach