two hour drive & two hours' drive.. which is correct?
Steve Howard
It is correct to say
- It's two hour drive away from here.
--------------
or
- It's two hours' drive away from here.
----------------
I am not sure which one is correct because I've heard both
expressions. Or is it OK to use either of them?
It got me thinking because of the recent movie "Two weeks' notice". Is
it ok to say
"He gave me a two week notice." or should it be said "He gave me a two
week's notice.".
Mike Stevens
I'd say either "It's two hours' drive from here" or "It's a two-hour
drive from here". (The "away" is redundant.)
The one about notice is almost always "He gave me two weeks' notice."
--
Mike Stevens, narrowboat Felis Catus II
Web site www.mike-stevens.co.uk
No man is an island. So is Man.
Einde O'Callaghan
>
> Hi there
>
> It is correct to say
>
> - It's two hour drive away from here.
It's a two-hour drive from here.
> --------------
> or
>
> - It's two hours' drive away from here.
This is correct.
> ----------------
>
> I am not sure which one is correct because I've heard both
> expressions. Or is it OK to use either of them?
>
> It got me thinking because of the recent movie "Two weeks' notice". Is
> it ok to say
> "He gave me a two week notice." or should it be said "He gave me a two
> week's notice.".
Neither - in this context "notice" is uncountable, i.e. it doesn't take
the indefinite article, so it's "He gave me two weeks' notice". (Note
the position of the apostrophe.)
Regards, Einde O'Callaghan
Phil C.
<einde.oc...@planet-interkom.de> wrote:
>Neither - in this context "notice" is uncountable, i.e. it doesn't take
>the indefinite article, so it's "He gave me two weeks' notice". (Note
>the position of the apostrophe.)
Now I wouldn't use an apostrophe there because I don't see "two weeks"
as being possessive of the notice but as qualifying it - rather like
"ten years hard labour" or "three days time"(?) I wouldn't like to say
I'm right, though.
--
Phil C.
________________________________________
philandwoody*at*meem*dot*freeserve*dot*co*dot*uk
Einde O'Callaghan
>
> On Thu, 20 Feb 2003 12:41:34 +0100, Einde O'Callaghan
> <einde.oc...@planet-interkom.de> wrote:
>
> >Neither - in this context "notice" is uncountable, i.e. it doesn't take
> >the indefinite article, so it's "He gave me two weeks' notice". (Note
> >the position of the apostrophe.)
>
> Now I wouldn't use an apostrophe there because I don't see "two weeks"
> as being possessive of the notice but as qualifying it - rather like
> "ten years hard labour" or "three days time"(?) I wouldn't like to say
> I'm right, though.
I'm afraid that according to all my grammar books you're wrong - in all
the cases you mention.
Sorry.
Regards, Einde O'Callaghan
Phil C.
<einde.oc...@planet-interkom.de> wrote:
>"Phil C." wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, 20 Feb 2003 12:41:34 +0100, Einde O'Callaghan
>> <einde.oc...@planet-interkom.de> wrote:
>>
>> >Neither - in this context "notice" is uncountable, i.e. it doesn't take
>> >the indefinite article, so it's "He gave me two weeks' notice". (Note
>> >the position of the apostrophe.)
>>
>> Now I wouldn't use an apostrophe there because I don't see "two weeks"
>> as being possessive of the notice but as qualifying it - rather like
>> "ten years hard labour" or "three days time"(?) I wouldn't like to say
>> I'm right, though.
>
>I'm afraid that according to all my grammar books you're wrong - in all
>the cases you mention.
>
>Sorry.
On reflection I'm sure that's logically right in cases where we'd use
the possessive in the singular - "one day's time", "one week's notice".
And we often use the singular in plural adjectival phrases - "a two week
holiday" as distinct from "two weeks' holiday".
A quick Google search for phrases is interesting - "months notice",
"days time", "years hard labour" etc. (But hard to judge just by count
as Google doesn't distinguish apostrophes well). It looks like a battle
lost. How far does a rule have to fall into disuse before it ceases to
be? Bearing in mind that the apostrophe was invented as an artificial
conceit of grammarians, I can't say I'm sorry to see the vox pop.
triumph.
--
Phil C.
________________________________________
philandwoody*at*meem*dot*freeserve*dot*co*
Mike Stevens
> On reflection I'm sure that's logically right in cases where we'd use
> the possessive in the singular - "one day's time", "one week's
> notice". And we often use the singular in plural adjectival phrases -
> "a two week holiday" as distinct from "two weeks' holiday".
I'd prefer to see your penultimate example written as "a two-week
holiday". To my way of thinking, "two-week" in that case is a compound
adjective and benefits from the hyphen [1], as opposed to your last
example which, means "two weeks of holiday". I think "a two-weeks
holiday" is also just about acceptable, if not very usual.
[1] I would. I'm a one-man campaign for the greater use of the hyphen
as an aid to clarity.
Alan Jones
[...]
> I would. I'm a one-man campaign for the greater use of the
> hyphen as an aid to clarity.
Not "one-man" - I've enlisted alongside you.
Alan Jones
Molly
Sat, 22 Feb 2003, Mike Stevens <mike...@which.net> wrote:
>[1] I would. I'm a one-man campaign for the greater use of the hyphen
>as an aid to clarity.
A hundred gets you thirty that this thread will be Fawthropped in a
moment :-)
--
Molly
Sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person
who doesn't get it.
Dave Fawthrop
wrote:
| In article <b36eho$1jkdio$1...@ID-170573.news.dfncis.de> at 00:00:06 on
| Sat, 22 Feb 2003, Mike Stevens <mike...@which.net> wrote:
|
| >[1] I would. I'm a one-man campaign for the greater use of the hyphen
| >as an aid to clarity.
|
| A hundred gets you thirty that this thread will be Fawthropped in a
| moment :-)
So nice of you to invite me Molly. :-\
For more information on hyphens hard and soft read,
Hyphenation by Ronald C McIntosh.
http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/book/BOOK-ED3.HTM
Dave F
Brian {Hamilton Kelly}
nob...@nowhere.co.uk "Phil C." writes:
> A quick Google search for phrases is interesting - "months notice",
> "days time", "years hard labour" etc. (But hard to judge just by count
> as Google doesn't distinguish apostrophes well).
You surely don't accept the incompetent ramblings that people put into
their web-sites (and newsgroup postings) as being indicative of any sort
of "correctness", do you?
(I recall about a year ago that a colleague told me that he'd reset a
password to "doppelganger". So I used that word, and it didn't work; it
turned out that he'd spelt it "doppleganger". When I asked him just HOW
he'd managed to get that incorrect spelling, he admitted that he wasn't
wuite sure how to spell the word, so conducted a Google search for only
his incorrect spelling, and was rewarded with some thousands of matches.
From this, he assumed that his guess had been correct. I then
demonstrated to him that there was a larger number of hits for the
correct spelling, but moreover justified the latter with a dictionary.
[Not that the misspelt word is a bad choice for a password: indeed it
could be argued that it's better than the "correct" one; except for when
passing on the information orally.])
Since a significant proportion of those who post to Usenet and/or write
web pages are illiterate or otherwise demonstrate our "dumbed down"
modern educational systems, one cannot rely upon any information found
therein without supporting evidence.
(Out of interest, I've just reGoogled for doppleganger and found just
under 18k matches. Moreover, Google has obviously improved since my
colleague coducted his "research", because it now asks "Did you mean
doppelganger?". The latter makes around 56k matches.)
--
Brian {Hamilton Kelly} b...@dsl.co.uk
"We can no longer stand apart from Europe if we would. Yet we are
untrained to mix with our neighbours, or even talk to them".
George Macaulay Trevelyan, 1919
Phil C.
Kelly}) wrote:
>In article <d06c5v0ng8aq4pk3p...@4ax.com>
> nob...@nowhere.co.uk "Phil C." writes:
>
>> A quick Google search for phrases is interesting - "months notice",
>> "days time", "years hard labour" etc. (But hard to judge just by count
>> as Google doesn't distinguish apostrophes well).
>
>You surely don't accept the incompetent ramblings that people put into
>their web-sites (and newsgroup postings) as being indicative of any sort
>of "correctness", do you?
I think the issue of prescriptive and descriptive language has been
aired quite often enough already, but others can follow it up if they
wish.
I. Colby
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