Classics
corin-slocombe@bridith.freeserve.co.uk j.corin-slocombe
with English spelling or grammar and would have less difficulty in
determining what words meant. What does does the group think?
ps I am now signing off to watch a film. The Train on (I think it is on
Channel 4 at 9 pm)
Kind regards
Judith
Benjamin Lukoff
split infinitives.
Actually, though, it is good training. It will certainly help with your
vocabulary. As for spelling and grammar, I'm not so sure. Spelling
especially.
j.corin-slocombe <j corin-s...@bridith.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8170pk$esj$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
Dave Aspinall
about
> split infinitives.
> Actually, though, it is good training. It will certainly help with your
> vocabulary. As for spelling and grammar, I'm not so sure. Spelling
> especially.
Hmmm, it may help people learning a foreign language. I am learning Spanish,
and am often being told such and such a thing is obselete in English - one
example being the Subjunctive mood. Can anyone give me some examples of how
the subjunctive used to be used in English?
Cheers
Faith Myers
> I am often told that if I had studied classics I would not have problems
> with English spelling or grammar and would have less difficulty in
> determining what words meant.
further education (Teacher Training College) which included New Testament
Greek have definitely aided me in recognising the possible meanings of
unknown words.
As to spelling and grammar...........who knows?
I suspect not, since both Latin & Greek have fairly structured syntax while
English does not.
(Short hiatus while I duck and put on my tin helmet! - Graham, have you
found us yet??)
Faith
(still looking for a new sig)
<j
corin-s...@bridith.freeserve.co.uknews:8170pk$esj$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk.
..
Jezza
corin-s...@bridith.freeserve.co.uk> posted this:
>:I am often told that if I had studied classics I would not have problems
>:with English spelling or grammar and would have less difficulty in
>:determining what words meant. What does does the group think?
>:
I studied French & Latin in my formative years. I think that having
to learn a new language from scratch may have focussed the importance
of grammar, spelling etc.
>:ps I am now signing off to watch a film. The Train on (I think it is on
>:Channel 4 at 9 pm)
Great film. I have recorded it to watch on another occasion.
--
Jezza: <http://www.hotwells.freeserve.co.uk/>
uk.culture.arts.theatre is the the new UK theatre
discussion group.
DJC
<da...@aspy.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Hmmm, it may help people learning a foreign language. I am learning Spanish,
>and am often being told such and such a thing is obselete in English - one
>example being the Subjunctive mood. Can anyone give me some examples of how
>the subjunctive used to be used in English?
If it _were_ obsolete this sentence would not say what I intend. If,
on the other hand, it _was_ alive then clearly the previous sentence
is in the subjunctive mood and this one is not.
--
Replies to the address above will be presumed spam.
Any intelligence, artificial or otherwise, worth
my attention should be capable of finding me at:
David Clark,Uni.Warwick, England
geoff
don't let it turn you into a pedant
j.corin-slocombe <j corin-s...@bridith.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8170pk$esj$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
> with English spelling or grammar and would have less difficulty in
> determining what words meant. What does does the group think?
>
> Channel 4 at 9 pm)
> Judith
>
>
Benjamin Lukoff
immensely when it came to learning Spanish.
Dave Aspinall <da...@aspy.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:943139813.7445.0...@news.demon.co.uk...
> > I don't know...it might turn you into one of those people who rant on
> about
> > split infinitives.
> > Actually, though, it is good training. It will certainly help with your
> > vocabulary. As for spelling and grammar, I'm not so sure. Spelling
> > especially.
>
> Hmmm, it may help people learning a foreign language. I am learning
Spanish,
> and am often being told such and such a thing is obselete in English - one
> example being the Subjunctive mood. Can anyone give me some examples of
how
> the subjunctive used to be used in English?
>
> Cheers
>
>
Annabel Smyth
>I am often told that if I had studied classics I would not have problems
>with English spelling or grammar and would have less difficulty in
>determining what words meant. What does does the group think?
>
I don't know. I did Latin to A level, but I'm not sure whether it was
that, or the two other languages I did (French and German) that
helps. What I do know is I can travel over nearly all of Europe and
not have too much trouble with the language!
>ps I am now signing off to watch a film. The Train on (I think it is on
>Channel 4 at 9 pm)
And? Oh, I suppose if you're on a university link that makes a
difference; those of us with dial-up accounts may well only download
news and mail once or twice a day.
--
Annabel Smyth mailto:Ann...@amsmyth.demon.co.uk
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 24 October 1999
Annabel Smyth
>Hmmm, it may help people learning a foreign language. I am learning
>Spanish,
>and am often being told such and such a thing is obselete in English - one
>example being the Subjunctive mood. Can anyone give me some examples
>of how
>the subjunctive used to be used in English?
>
It isn't particularly obsolete. "I wonder if I might..." is using the
subjunctive, as is "If only it were so easy".....
Molly
Aspinall <da...@aspy.demon.co.uk> writes
>
>Hmmm, it may help people learning a foreign language. I am learning Spanish,
>and am often being told such and such a thing is obselete in English - one
>example being the Subjunctive mood. Can anyone give me some examples of how
>the subjunctive used to be used in English?
>
--
Molly (change nospam to orbs to email me)
Visit http://www.thehungersite.com for a totally free and simple way
to donate food to the hungry. (Go on, try it!)
nightjar
j.corin-slocombe > wrote in message
<8170pk$esj$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>...
>I am often told that if I had studied classics I would not have
problems
>with English spelling or grammar and would have less difficulty in
>determining what words meant. What does does the group think?
Spelling was drummed into me at Primary School. I believe that now it is
thought that forcing children to adopt a uniform standard of spelling
inhibits their ability to express themselves freely.
My knowledge of English grammar I owe to our O level English Languages
teacher. The examination structure was such that full marks in the
grammar section virtually guaranteed a minimum level pass. He therefore
devoted almost all of the year leading up to the examination to the
teaching of grammar.
I am not aware that a knowledge of Latin helped me greatly with either,
although it might have helped me to work out the meanings of a few
words. I now think that I would have found it more useful to study
another modern language instead.
Colin Bignell
Susannah Smit
if I'm wrong.
Molly <mo...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:dcQ6zRA$oGO4...@orbs.demon.co.uk...
George van den Driessche
news:819vid$n8r$1...@tesla.a2000.nl...
> God save the Queen is a subjunctive form, I believe, but please correct me
> if I'm wrong.
It is, as are "Long live the Queen" and "So be it".
--
George van den Driessche
<gr...@bigfoot.com>
Liz & Andy
j.corin-slocombe <j corin-s...@bridith.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8170pk$esj$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
> with English spelling or grammar and would have less difficulty in
> determining what words meant. What does does the group think?
>
vocabulary than in grammar. Classical languages can be very succinct, with
the result that one has to pay more attention to grammar. Consequently, the
teaching of Latin and Greek tend to emphasise this and the knowledge can be
usefully applied to English.
Those points aside, learning the Classics opens up the some of the most
beautiful and influential literature in the western world :)
Liz
corin-slocombe@bridith.freeserve.co.uk j.corin-slocombe
great books. I never did classics but I one day I may venture into that
field of study.
Judith
Liz & Andy <lizn...@liznandy.freeNOSPAMTAserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:81c2ps$afk$1...@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
Liz & Andy
> Oooh you are making me feel envious. I am sure that I am missing out on
> great books. I never did classics but I one day I may venture into that
> field of study.
> Judith
On the bright side, the translation of Latin and Greek lit. has attracted
some of the most gifted poets and writers in history; even in translation it
can blow your socks off!
Liz
> >
> >
>
>
njet
>some of the most gifted poets and writers in history; even in translation
it
>can blow your socks off!
I would recommend the translation.
I studied Latin in "humaniora" (Belgian/flemish schoolsystem for those aged
from 12 to 18 years old) and I never got to learn it (vocabularium not such
a big problem, but grammar, oh no!). But then I was really the worst of my
class. The translations I made for my examinations must have been very
enjoyable for my teachers to read. I always would end up with quite another
story than the original text. It didn't help neither for my learning of
french : I started that at the age of 11 (so before I started to learn
Latin), and I did even worse for french then I did for Latin. I learned
English at school between the age of 15 and 18, but I already knew it from
television and popsongs (most of my vocabularium, and the building of
sentences). And for English, I did quite well at school (but I was not a
primus). I learned German at school for two years (age 17-18) for one hour a
week, and that was terrible experience !
At this moment I can understand French quite well, and I can speak it
reasonably well (but still with a lot of errors, especially concerning the
gender of the words). This is so because I already work a few years with
especially french-speaking co-workers. When I started working with them my
knowledge of the French language was zero (despite my learning of it at
school).
Because I AM interested in language (despite my lack of any "feeling" for
the roman grammar, and the fact I despised the lessons french, german and
latin at school), I started to learn Spanish (by correspondence), restarted
to learn French (by correspondence; now I feel I have a real base to
re-learn it, and I have enough conversation at work), and I also started
with the learning of Russian (two hours a week in evening-school).
Now, for the learning of Russian, Latin can help, but then only because of
the notion of accusatief/genitief/datief/ablatief (I'm using the dutch terms
here). Now, these "verbuigingen" (not all of them) exists also in German.
And this was/is one of my major problems I think : I don't get the feeling
of it. So I guess I will never get to master Russian quite well neither (but
if it's enough to make a trip to St.-Petersburg or Moscow, I'll be glad
enough).
So, to make a long story short :
Try Latin or German or Russian, but if you feel you really can't master the
changes of the nouns or other awkward grammatical issues, don't invest too
much time in it : only the aces will be able to read
Ovidius/Goethe/Dostoyevski in their original language after a few years of
study.
In this way, English grammar is really more simple (in the daily use of a
language, I mean). French does not have these changes of nouns neither.
Dutch only very seldom.
Better is to -after you learned the basics- to take a bath in a foreign
language (Spanish television, holidays in France, Russian co-workers,
Italian newsgroups, Dutch au-pairs in house, German beer-parties, Swedish
saunas, Arabian popmusic, but you won't find any old Greek nowadays, though
:).
Greetings,
njet
Susannah Smit
njet <nj...@njet.com> wrote in message news:81ce6a$2e7$1...@nickel.uunet.be...
Why would I want to find any old Greek when I can have a Mercedes Mercouri
lookalike?
>
>
Matthew M. Huntbach
> Hmmm, it may help people learning a foreign language. I am learning Spanish,
> and am often being told such and such a thing is obselete in English - one
> example being the Subjunctive mood. Can anyone give me some examples of how
> the subjunctive used to be used in English?
It's hanging on with "were" for singular objects rather than "was" in the
subjunctive mood. "If I were a rich man", "Were he only to know" etc.
However, even here it has a slightly formal/archaic ring. It's often not
used in conversational English, and is not always usd in written English.
Matthew Huntbach
Mike Dowling
>about
>> split infinitives.
>> Actually, though, it is good training. It will certainly help with your
>> vocabulary. As for spelling and grammar, I'm not so sure. Spelling
>> especially.
>
>and am often being told such and such a thing is obselete in English - one
>example being the Subjunctive mood. Can anyone give me some examples of how
>the subjunctive used to be used in English?
If the subjunctive were obsolete, then why do so many people use it?
Cheers,
Mike Dowling
--
My email address mi...@moocow.math.tu-bs.de above is a valid email address.
It is, in fact, a sendmail alias; the digit 'N' is incremented regularly.
Spammed aliases will be deleted. Currently, mike[1-2,5,7-10,12-14,16-21]
have been deleted. If email to mikeN bounces, try mikeN+1.
Torkel Franzen
>If the subjunctive were obsolete, then why do so many people use it?
The use of "were" in the above sentence is merely strange. But the
proper subjunctive "were" is indeed still in use, and particularly in
American English the "mandative subjunctive" ("demanded that it be
returned" etc) is often used. But apart from that, subjunctive forms
survive in English only in some set phrases.
Frank Peelo
j.corin-slocombe <j corin-s...@bridith.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:81c4ge$ntg$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
> Oooh you are making me feel envious. I am sure that I am missing out on
> great books. I never did classics but I one day I may venture into that
> field of study.
> Judith
I never read any of these great books, but I did come across "Asterix
Gallus" -- a translation of the French comic strip into Latin so that the
Roman protagonists could understand it --delirant isti Romani!
Frank
Jeremy Nation
: mi...@MooCow.math.nat.tu-bs.de (Mike Dowling) writes:
: American English the "mandative subjunctive" ("demanded that it be
: returned" etc) is often used. But apart from that, subjunctive forms
: survive in English only in some set phrases.
I thought "if" clauses like the following were considered to be
subjunctive, also:
"What would you do if I told you you had a turnip in your ear?"
"If only he'd seen the train coming..."
"He wouldn't hate you if you hadn't hit him."
They seem to refer to a state of alternate reality, which I thought was the
basis for the whole subjunctive form.
--Jeremy
----
"And you may ask yourself, 'How do I work this?'..."
--Talking Heads, Once in a Lifetime
----
Torkel Franzen
>I thought "if" clauses like the following were considered to be
>subjunctive, also:
>
>"What would you do if I told you you had a turnip in your ear?"
>"If only he'd seen the train coming..."
>"He wouldn't hate you if you hadn't hit him."
>
>They seem to refer to a state of alternate reality, which I thought was the
>basis for the whole subjunctive form.
It may seem arbitrary, but grammatically speaking the subjunctive is
used in "If he were to come here, I would kick him out" but not in "If
he came here, I would kick him out". This is because "subjunctive"
refers to the form used, not to the semantics of a statement.
Gordon Harris
writes
>}
>}If the subjunctive were obsolete, then why do so many people use it?
>
>
Contextually off-topic, it has always puzzled me that people who make
the mistake of substituting "was" for "were" and vice versa, do it with
such consistency that it would seem that they ought to have just as
easily learned the correct grammar.
eg "We was going shopping and it were raining" is an error which seems
to be very common in the Lancs/Yorks border area, so can it be
considered part of the local dialect?
--
Gordon
Jeremy Nation
: It may seem arbitrary, but grammatically speaking the subjunctive is
: used in "If he were to come here, I would kick him out" but not in "If
: he came here, I would kick him out".
:
This seems arbitrary, too, but the second sentence doesn't sound right.
I would say "If he comes here, I will kick him out."
: This is because "subjunctive"
: refers to the form used, not to the semantics of a statement.
:
Good point. I think, though, that the form _does_ carry some semantic
value.
Consider these:
"If he comes here, I will kick him out."
?"If he came here, I would kick him out."
"If he were to come here, I would kick him out."
Note that the marked sentence is understandable, but I don't think it
sounds quite right. Modals in the dominant clause seem to only work with
subjunctive in the subordinate clause. Any thoughts on this?
Jeremy Nation
: Contextually off-topic, it has always puzzled me that people who make
: the mistake of substituting "was" for "were" and vice versa, do it with
: eg "We was going shopping and it were raining" is an error which seems
: to be very common in the Lancs/Yorks border area, so can it be
: considered part of the local dialect?
Do they say "I were going" or "he were going"? I've heard "We was going"
all my life (Southern Indiana, USA) but never the other way around.
Another construction that follows that one is "There is/are/was/were
[some-number-of-things] on the table." It's so common to use the
contraction "There's" that it's starting to override the plural form.
Liz & Andy
Frank Peelo <fpe...@indigo.ie> wrote in message
news:81emeo$r2m$1...@ezekiel.eunet.ie...
remember who they're by but they gain something in the translation!
Liz
Matti Lamprhey
news:819vid$n8r$1...@tesla.a2000.nl...
> God save the Queen is a subjunctive form, I believe, but please correct me
> if I'm wrong.
Let's assume you're wrong. What sort of correction do you have in mind?
Matti
Susannah Smit
Matti Lamprhey <ma...@polka.bikini> wrote in message
news:383c1...@news.netdirect.net.uk...
A spanking good one, perhaps.
>
>
Torkel Franzen
> Consider these:
> "If he comes here, I will kick him out."
> ?"If he came here, I would kick him out."
> "If he were to come here, I would kick him out."
>
> Note that the marked sentence is understandable, but I don't think it
> sounds quite right.
That's an odd view. After all, such sentences are quite common. "If
I knew her name (which I don't) , I wouldn't have to ask", "If he came
here (which he won't), I would kick him out".
Jeremy Nation
: jna...@sherrill.kiva.net (Jeremy Nation) writes:
I see what you're saying. I swear it looked strange to me when I typed
it!! :)
--
Gordon Harris
<jna...@sherrill.kiva.net> writes
>Do they say "I were going" or "he were going"?
Yes.
> I've heard "We was going"
>all my life (Southern Indiana, USA) but never the other way around.
>
>Another construction that follows that one is "There is/are/was/were
>[some-number-of-things] on the table." It's so common to use the
>contraction "There's" that it's starting to override the plural form.
>
That, too.
--
Gordon
Annabel Smyth
>eg "We was going shopping and it were raining" is an error which seems
>to be very common in the Lancs/Yorks border area, so can it be
>considered part of the local dialect?
Apparently a teacher in the 1940s was asked if she noticed much
difference in her class now that they had returned from evacuation.
"No," she said. "They went away saying 'we was'; and they came
back saying 'us be'."
Chris Croughton
<lizn...@liznandy.freeNOSPAMTAserve.co.uk> wrote:
>Frank Peelo <fpe...@indigo.ie> wrote in message
>news:81emeo$r2m$1...@ezekiel.eunet.ie...
>>
>> I never read any of these great books, but I did come across "Asterix
>> Gallus" -- a translation of the French comic strip into Latin so that the
>> Roman protagonists could understand it --delirant isti Romani!
I would like to know where these can be found, as my local shops don't
stock them.
>Or of course, there's "Winnie Ille Pu" and "Domus Angulari Puensis" - can't
>remember who they're by but they gain something in the translation!
I have both, and they are great fun. I can't unforget who did the
translations either, but it was a good job.
Chris C
Chris Croughton
<Gor...@g3snx.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <81h1ug$hl$1...@topsy.kiva.net>, Jeremy Nation
><jna...@sherrill.kiva.net> writes
>>Gordon Harris (Gor...@g3snx.demon.co.uk) wrote:
>>
>>: eg "We was going shopping and it were raining"
>
>>Do they say "I were going" or "he were going"?
>
>Yes.
In which case that is part of the local dialect, as is the north Essex
form "I wouldn't have went if I'd have knowed". (Incidentally I love
the Essex term for crossroads, "fourwentways", there is even a town with
that name...)
Chris C
Matti Lamprhey
news:slrn83ppdr...@ccserver.keris.org...
My gazetteer doesn't have it -- where exactly? It's biting me, because I
know I've seen this somewhere.
Matti
Matti Lamprhey
news:81h4md$f36$1...@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
> message
> > news:81c4ge$ntg$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
> > > Oooh you are making me feel envious. I am sure that I am missing out
on
> > > great books. I never did classics but I one day I may venture into
that
> > > field of study.
> > > Judith
> >
> > Gallus" -- a translation of the French comic strip into Latin so that
the
> > Roman protagonists could understand it --delirant isti Romani!
> >
can't
> remember who they're by but they gain something in the translation!
Or the /Fabula de Petro Cuniculo/ which sits on my own shelf.
Matti
Liz & Andy
Frank Peelo <fpe...@indigo.ie> wrote in message
news:81emeo$r2m$1...@ezekiel.eunet.ie...
>
> j.corin-slocombe <j corin-s...@bridith.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
message
> news:81c4ge$ntg$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
> > Oooh you are making me feel envious. I am sure that I am missing out on
> > great books. I never did classics but I one day I may venture into that
> > field of study.
> > Judith
>
> I never read any of these great books, but I did come across "Asterix
> Gallus" -- a translation of the French comic strip into Latin so that the
> Roman protagonists could understand it --delirant isti Romani!
My mum tried to get me to learn French by buying Asterix and Tintin in the
French, which meant that my conversational French ran to "Oh no! It's the
Gauls!" and "I will crush you like a miserable spider!", both of which have
since come in handy.
Liz
qb
| Gallus" -- a translation of the French comic strip into Latin so that the
| Roman protagonists could understand it --delirant isti Romani!
|
|
Going through some of my boyfriends old school stuff I found a copy of
"Asterix et Cleopatra" in Latin which they used in their Latin classes here
in Switzerland. Unfortunately, Latin doesn't figure very large on Australian
school curricula (is that right, all you Latin speakers?), so I understood
very little of it but I thought it was great! I have enjoyed Asterix and
Obelix all my life and continue to do so... Vive, la Gaulle!
Eva
qb
qb <qbp...@iname.comREMOVETHIS> wrote in message
news:81jnpo$piu$1...@bw107zhb.bluewin.ch...
| Going through some of my boyfriends ....
Yikes! I missed an apostrophe! I humbly ask for your apologies and will keep
a more "eagle eye" on things in future :-)
Peter Duncanson
qb <qbp...@iname.comREMOVETHIS> wrote in message
Yes, but where does the apostrophe go!
boyfriend's or boyfriends' ? ! :-)
Peter D
qb
Peter Duncanson <P.Dun...@qub.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:81jqcu$7rk$1...@news.qub.ac.uk...
Hah! You foiled my little plan... Actually, this is an easy one but I won't
claim certainty, I have done that too often in the past and found myself in
an uncomfortable position because of it, since I hate having to admit I am
wrong, especially if someone can prove that I am! However, since, to the
best of my knowledge, I have only *one* boyfriend, I would tend toward
writing "boyfriend's". Is that correct, Sir? :-)
Eva
Peter Duncanson
qb <qbp...@iname.comREMOVETHIS> wrote in message
>
<snip>
> Hah! You foiled my little plan... Actually, this is an easy one but I
won't
> claim certainty, I have done that too often in the past and found myself
in
> an uncomfortable position because of it, since I hate having to admit I am
> wrong, especially if someone can prove that I am! However, since, to the
> best of my knowledge, I have only *one* boyfriend, I would tend toward
> writing "boyfriend's". Is that correct, Sir? :-)
>
> Eva
I believe that your boyfriend has his apostrophe in the correct position,
Madam! :-)
Peter
Annabel Smyth
>My mum tried to get me to learn French by buying Asterix and Tintin in the
>French, which meant that my conversational French ran to "Oh no! It's the
>Gauls!" and "I will crush you like a miserable spider!", both of which have
>since come in handy.
>
The trouble with Asterix, at any rate - I don't know Tintin well enough
to comment - is the puns. It took me many years to realise what I
was missing since first discovering them at the age of 15 or so.
c o jones
> My mum tried to get me to learn French by buying Asterix and Tintin in the
> French, which meant that my conversational French ran to "Oh no! It's the
> Gauls!" and "I will crush you like a miserable spider!", both of which
have
> since come in handy.
>
> Liz
>
We had a French Jew stay at our rented house once. He spoke very little
English and I only spoke English and some Spanish. He wanted to tell me
something and lokked through his Hebrew-English Phrase book. He got very
excited when he found a phrase and kept shouting out "I want you to show me
the dead sea Potassium Factory !"
I never really did find out what he'd wanted to say
coj
Chris Croughton
<ma...@polka.bikini> wrote:
>> In which case that is part of the local dialect, as is the north Essex
>> form "I wouldn't have went if I'd have knowed". (Incidentally I love
>> the Essex term for crossroads, "fourwentways", there is even a town with
>> that name...)
>
>My gazetteer doesn't have it -- where exactly? It's biting me, because I
>know I've seen this somewhere.
Go up the M11 past Stanstead airport, I think it's the next junction
(about 10 miles north as I recall), come off there and go east a couple
of miles. You may find it in a list of Little Chef restaurants, I'm not
absolutely certain but I know that there's some kind of cafe' there.
(Quite how much of a town is left I'm not certain, it's been quite a
time since I was last there and it was probably a village rather than a
town anyway - or, as Americans would say, a city...)
Chris C
Molly
nandy.freeNOSPAMTAserve.co.uk> writes
>
>Or of course, there's "Winnie Ille Pu" and "Domus Angulari Puensis" -
can't
>remember who they're by but they gain something in the translation!
>
as well? I'm sure that I remember reading it in the sixth form, but
that was an *awfully* long time ago ...
--
Molly (change nospam to orbs to email me)
Visit http://www.thehungersite.com for a totally free and simple way
to donate food to the hungry. (Go on, try it!)
Molly
ndy.freeNOSPAMTAserve.co.uk> writes
>
>My mum tried to get me to learn French by buying Asterix and Tintin in the
>French, which meant that my conversational French ran to "Oh no! It's the
>Gauls!" and "I will crush you like a miserable spider!", both of which have
>since come in handy.
>
Philip Powell
"Matti Lamprhey" <ma...@polka.bikini> wrote:
>Chris Croughton <ch...@keris.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:slrn83ppdr...@ccserver.keris.org...
[snip]
>>In which case that is part of the local dialect, as is the north
>>Essex form "I wouldn't have went if I'd have knowed".
>>(Incidentally I love the Essex term for crossroads,
>>"fourwentways", there is even a town with that name...)
>
>My gazetteer doesn't have it -- where exactly? It's biting me,
>because I know I've seen this somewhere.
Don't know about Essex but there is a "Four Wents" in Kent - about 6
miles ese of Sevenoaks. Looks more like a hamlet than a town though.
--
Philip Powell
Looking north across the Derwent Valley and Northumberland
to The Cheviot
Chris Croughton
<ann...@amsmyth.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>The trouble with Asterix, at any rate - I don't know Tintin well enough
>to comment - is the puns. It took me many years to realise what I
>was missing since first discovering them at the age of 15 or so.
The puns still exist in the translations, although not always the same
ones. I was amazed to find that when reading them in German I still
found them funny, even though my German is not very fluent I was able to
see the puns there. Of course, I probably missed a lot of them as
well...
Chris C
Janet McKnight
: On Sat, 20 Nov 1999 23:19:44 -0000, "Dave Aspinall"
: <da...@aspy.demon.co.uk> wrote:
: >Hmmm, it may help people learning a foreign language. I am learning Spanish,
: >and am often being told such and such a thing is obselete in English - one
: >example being the Subjunctive mood. Can anyone give me some examples of how
: >the subjunctive used to be used in English?
:
: If it _were_ obsolete this sentence would not say what I intend. If,
: on the other hand, it _was_ alive then clearly the previous sentence
: is in the subjunctive mood and this one is not.
*sigh* Would that the subjunctive would die out in English! (Not really, I
just like saying it)
I was taught when I studied for RSA/CELTA (English Language teaching
qualification) that there was no subjunctive in English. Most people just
accepted this blindly, but when I tried to debate the point the teacher
admitted that *he* knew this wasn't the case, it was just easier not to
teach it. I was horrified that people are actually deliberately
contributing to the extinction of the subjunctive! However, it isn't
generally used any more, I have to admit, except in the case of "If I were
you"... only by quite *precise* (nice?) users/abusers of English. Were I
to be one such, I would use the subjunctive, of course. :-)
Jan x
--
Janet McKnight
Escaped from Pembroke College, Oxford
"nice and accurate"
Chris Smith
<pemb...@sable.ox.ac.uk> writes
>DJC (bi...@lostcause.co.uk) wrote:
>: On Sat, 20 Nov 1999 23:19:44 -0000, "Dave Aspinall"
>: <da...@aspy.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>:
>
> snip...
the subjunctive! However, it isn't
>generally used any more, I have to admit, except in the case of "If I
were you"... only by quite *precise* (nice?) users/abusers of English.
Were I to be one such, I would use the subjunctive, of course. :-)
>
>I would use, if I *were* in charge of the country, because this simply
isn't going to happen. If the event *was* likely, I would use was. As
in, if I *was* to send my apologies someone else would have to take
notes. I seem to have been taught this a very long time ago (b1947) and
would appreciate comments.
ps As I am not the Chris Smith in the cabinet the first example need not
be taken as a lack of ambition!
>
--
Chris Smith
Paul Herzberg
There is this page:
http://www.aunet.org/thaths/asterix/
Asterix Annotations that goes through the puns and what have you in the
English versions. I don't know if there is a French equivalent, however.
Even if you think you understand all the jokes in Asterix, though, this site
is worth a look.
Cheers
Paul Herzberg
George van den Driessche
news:slrn83u09c...@ccserver.keris.org...
> On Thu, 25 Nov 1999 17:24:43 +0000, Annabel Smyth
> <ann...@amsmyth.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >The trouble with Asterix, at any rate - I don't know Tintin well enough
> >to comment - is the puns. It took me many years to realise what I
> >was missing since first discovering them at the age of 15 or so.
>
> The puns still exist in the translations, although not always the same
> ones. I was amazed to find that when reading them in German I still
> found them funny, even though my German is not very fluent I was able to
> see the puns there. Of course, I probably missed a lot of them as
> well...
>
I don't know whether I am missing a whole lot, but having read Asterix first
in English and then in French, I was disappointed to find that the jokes in
it seem much more sparse in French. The French versions of the names aren't
even relevant to their characters, for example. So I think in the case of
the English translations, the puns have been more than preserved.
--
George van den Driessche
<gr...@bigfoot.com>
Chris Croughton
<gr...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>I don't know whether I am missing a whole lot, but having read Asterix first
>in English and then in French, I was disappointed to find that the jokes in
>it seem much more sparse in French. The French versions of the names aren't
>even relevant to their characters, for example. So I think in the case of
>the English translations, the puns have been more than preserved.
I've never seen the French ones. The puns in Germans seem to be about
the same in number as in the English version, although some of the names
are not so obviously puns (but that could be my lack of fluency in
German; I was most surprised to find that I found them funny at all).
I do want to obtain some of the Latin ones, I find the idea of
translating Asterix into Latin to be highly amusing in itself...
Chris C
Tom Joyce
}In article <81h4md$f36$1...@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>, Liz & Andy <liznandy@liz
}nandy.freeNOSPAMTAserve.co.uk> writes
}>
}>Or of course, there's "Winnie Ille Pu" and "Domus Angulari Puensis" -
}can't
}>remember who they're by but they gain something in the translation!
}>
}And didn't somebody translate "The Hunting of the Snark" into Latin,
}as well? I'm sure that I remember reading it in the sixth form, but
}that was an *awfully* long time ago ...
When I were lad</yorkshire> a friend and I translated the Parrot
Sketch and Lumberjack Song onto Latin... I wish I still had copies as
my Latin is far too rusty now.
By the way, have I mentioned that I could have been a judge...
--
toodle pip,
Tom
hanc psitticam est psitticam mortus!
non est! dormit.
Terry Boon
Hash: SHA1
Tom Joyce <t.m....@dunelm.org.uk> wrote:
> Also sprach Molly <mo...@nospam.demon.co.uk>:
> }In article <81h4md$f36$1...@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>, Liz & Andy <liznandy@liz
> }nandy.freeNOSPAMTAserve.co.uk> writes
> }>
> }>Or of course, there's "Winnie Ille Pu" and "Domus Angulari Puensis" -
> }can't
> }>remember who they're by but they gain something in the translation!
"Winnie Ille Pu" was translated by Alexander Lenard (copyright 1960),
while "Domus Anguli Puensis" was translated by Brian Gerrard Staples.
I also have on my bookshelf "Fabula de Petro Cuniculo" ("Olim erant
quattuor cuniculi parvi, et eorum nomina erant -- Flopsa, Mopsa, Cauda
Linea, Petrus") translated by E Perot Walker (copyright 1962).
And Keith Lim has collected on his web site
(http://www.pair.com/~keithlim) a collection of c.58 translations of
"Jabberwocky" (as well as other commentaries and parodies of the poem).
[Now it's off to www.deja.com to find out what this thread was
originally about, my ISP's news-server having lost interesting-looking
chunks.]
Best wishes,
Terry Boon
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Chris Croughton
<t.m....@dunelm.org.uk> wrote:
>When I were lad</yorkshire> a friend and I translated the Parrot
>Sketch and Lumberjack Song onto Latin... I wish I still had copies as
>my Latin is far too rusty now.
When I was in Germany and wanted to buy a light bulb I started (on the
bus down into Ulm) translating the Parrot Sketch into German (but about
the poor dead lamp in my room). Fortunately I gave up...
>By the way, have I mentioned that I could have been a judge...
Not prior to the message to which I am replying, I think...
Chris C
Faith Myers
> By the way, have I mentioned that I could have been a judge...
No, but do tell. If you'd been a miner would you now be retired????????
Talk about showing one's age!!!
I've just had a thought.......he's the original PC!!
Puts a whole new slant on things.
Faith
(still looking for a sig)
Tom Joyce
}On Mon, 06 Dec 1999 21:30:20 GMT, Tom Joyce
} <t.m....@dunelm.org.uk> wrote:
}>By the way, have I mentioned that I could have been a judge...
}
}Not prior to the message to which I am replying, I think...
I didn't have the Latin for the rigourous judging exams...
--
toodle pip,
Tom
Today, however, the average Web user is more of a neophyte...
Judge Thomas Penfield Jackson, 1999/11/05