'I speak good English' or 'I speak English well'?
MS
speak good English' is actally not good English at all and that 'I speak
English well' is the correct way of saying it. Is she correct and, if so, why?
Many thanks and regards, etc.,
MS
Einde O'Callaghan
> A Sunday pub lunch disagreement needs resolving. A friend stated that 'I
> speak good English' is actally not good English at all and that 'I speak
> English well' is the correct way of saying it. Is she correct and, if
> so, why?
>
I have no great problem with either grammatically, but I think people
would usually use these constructions to speak of other people and not
of themselves, e.g. "You speak good English" or "You speak English well".
Regards, Einde O'Callaghan
MS
How would you say this about yourself?
MS
John Briggs
> A Sunday pub lunch disagreement needs resolving. A friend stated that
> 'I speak good English' is actally not good English at all and that 'I
> speak English well' is the correct way of saying it. Is she correct
> and, if so, why?
'I speak English good' is not good English, but neither can 'I speak English
well' be described as well English.
--
John Briggs
John of Aix
> A Sunday pub lunch disagreement needs resolving. A friend stated that
> 'I speak good English' is actally not good English at all and that 'I
> speak English well' is the correct way of saying it. Is she correct
> and, if so, why?
I would say that the latter is a little bit more formal. The first is a
little bit funny to my ear, even, though it is perfectly correct and I
might well say it, but probably I'd avoid the mental difficulty by
saying "I speak excellent English." I don't really know why, it just
feels better.
Einde O'Callaghan
For a start I'd be a bit more modest - I'd probably say something like
"I think my English (or French, or German, or whatever) is quite good".
Regards, Einde O'Callaghan
Tony Mountifield
MS <No.Wa...@No.Spam.Thank.You.com> wrote:
> A Sunday pub lunch disagreement needs resolving. A friend stated that 'I
> speak good English' is actally not good English at all and that 'I speak
> English well' is the correct way of saying it. Is she correct and, if so, why?
To me, there is a slight difference of meaning between the two.
In "I speak good English", "good" is an adjective denoting the quality of the
English being spoken.
In "I speak English well", "well" is an adverb denoting the skill of the
speaker at speaking English.
Ok, it's a subtle distinction. :-)
Is it possible to speak good English badly or bad English well?
Cheers
Tony
--
Tony Mountifield
Work: to...@softins.co.uk - http://www.softins.co.uk
Play: to...@mountifield.org - http://tony.mountifield.org
Aelfrith
or bad, well or ill.
Neil Jones
"Tony Mountifield" <to...@softins.clara.co.uk> wrote in message
news:dsqs7f$uf6$1...@softins.clara.co.uk...
Mike Stevens
> I way always told English is either correct or incorrect, it can't
> be good or bad, well or ill.
To my way of looking at things, you have been misinformed. There has been a
tendency in English since about the middle 18th Century to try to define
"correct" English. However, the language changes (thank goodness) faster
than the pedants can keep up with. There are formal rules of grammar that
are usually regarded as fixed, but good writers can sometimes ignore these
for effect.
Shakespeare wrote
"Full fathom five the father lies,
Of his bones are coral made."
Here he links a plural verb "are" with a singluar (some would say
uncountable) subject "coral". Most people would say that this is
gramatically incorrect, but it would take a very brave person to suggest it
wasn't good English!
Now don't start me on the subject of spelling or I'll quoste
Shakespeare/Shakspear/Shagsberd (all his own spelling, I believe) at you
again.
--
Mike Stevens
narrowboat Felis Catus III
web site www.mike-stevens.co.uk
No man is an island. So is Man.
Paul Burke
> I way always told English is either correct or incorrect, it can't be good
> or bad, well or ill.
>
You were told wrong. English has a large number of gramatically and
syntactically correct ways of expressing any given idea. Some ways are
better than others. They can be more arresting, more elegant, clearer in
language, or more concise (to name a few possibilities). The exact
choice could be better or worse depending on the circumstances. Good
English for a report on local government finance would be bad English
for a best man's speech at a wedding.
Someone else pointed out there is a subtle difference between "speaking
good English" and "speaking English well". If I were praising a
non-native speaker, I would probably use the former, as I would be
praising his ability to communicate, not the elegance (etc.) of his
construction.
Paul Burke
John Briggs
>
> Now don't start me on the subject of spelling or I'll quoste
> Shakespeare/Shakspear/Shagsberd (all his own spelling, I believe) at
> you again.
Don't believe everything you read. His own preferred spelling seems to have
been Shake-speare (a bit like Pitt-Kethley, I suppose).
--
John Briggs
Tony Mountifield
>
> Is it possible to speak good English badly or bad English well?
On thinking about this, the second is certainly possible, particularly
by a good character actor.
Nick Wagg
news:dsqs7f$uf6$1...@softins.clara.co.uk...
> MS <No.Wa...@No.Spam.Thank.You.com> wrote:
> > A Sunday pub lunch disagreement needs resolving. A friend stated that 'I
> > speak good English' is actally not good English at all and that 'I speak
> > English well' is the correct way of saying it. Is she correct and, if
so, why?
>
> To me, there is a slight difference of meaning between the two.
>
> In "I speak good English", "good" is an adjective denoting the quality of
the
> English being spoken.
>
> In "I speak English well", "well" is an adverb denoting the skill of the
> speaker at speaking English.
>
> Ok, it's a subtle distinction. :-)
>
> Is it possible to speak good English badly or bad English well?
I reckon that when Andrew Sachs as Manuel said
"I speak English goood. I come from Barcelona"
he was speaking bad English well.
Thomas Lauer
> In article <cU2If.19508$wl.1...@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
> MS <No.Wa...@No.Spam.Thank.You.com> wrote:
> > A Sunday pub lunch disagreement needs resolving. A friend stated that 'I
> > speak good English' is actally not good English at all and that 'I speak
> > English well' is the correct way of saying it. Is she correct and, if so, why?
>
> To me, there is a slight difference of meaning between the two.
>
> In "I speak good English", "good" is an adjective denoting the quality of the
> English being spoken.
>
> In "I speak English well", "well" is an adverb denoting the skill of the
> speaker at speaking English.
>
> Ok, it's a subtle distinction. :-)
I think you're right. The first in my view deals more with getting right
the "mechanics" of the language, whereas the second clearly projects the
ability to use "good" English in an elegant and "well"-constructed way.
In that sense speaking good English is the (or a) prerequisite for
speaking English well.
--
cheers thomasl
mail: thomas...@virgin.net
web : http://thomaslauer.com/start
John of Aix
> In article <dsqs7f$uf6$1...@softins.clara.co.uk>, I wrote:
>>
>> Is it possible to speak good English badly or bad English well?
>
> On thinking about this, the second is certainly possible, particularly
> by a good character actor.
Surely both for the thespian world.
MS
> In article <cU2If.19508$wl.1...@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
> MS <No.Wa...@No.Spam.Thank.You.com> wrote:
>
>>A Sunday pub lunch disagreement needs resolving. A friend stated that 'I
>>speak good English' is actally not good English at all and that 'I speak
>>English well' is the correct way of saying it. Is she correct and, if so, why?
>
>
> To me, there is a slight difference of meaning between the two.
>
> In "I speak good English", "good" is an adjective denoting the quality of the
> English being spoken.
>
> In "I speak English well", "well" is an adverb denoting the skill of the
> speaker at speaking English.
>
> Ok, it's a subtle distinction. :-)
A subtle but important distinction and an argument winner. The pub
disagreement proceeded on the basis that they were two phrases to
communicate one idea, which they are not. Many thanks for pointing out the
difference between the two.
Bob Cunningham
But despite the grammatical difference and the theoretical
difference in the thought expressed, the two statements are
really conveying the same idea. The speaker is boasting of
his or her ability to speak English as shown by the high
quality of his or her speech.
To a grammarian, the difference is significant; for the
ordinary English user, there is no important difference.
David
I would say that to an ordinary user of the USAmerican form of English
there is no important difference (nor with "I speak English good", I
suppose from viewing many foreign films) but there is certainly a
difference to an ordianry user of English English. Can't say for Welsh
English, etc.
--
David - toro-danyo atcost uku fullstop co fullstop uk
http://www.toro-danyo.uku.co.uk/
Bob Cunningham
Can you really say that whether a person tells you "I speak
English well" or "I speak good English", you're left with
any impression but that the person feels that he or she is
an able speaker of English? It's one thing to know that
there's a theoretical difference between the two. It's
another thing to ask yourself how the person feels about
himself or herself as an English speaker and whether either
statement is a better answer than the other to the question.
The question is answered equally well by either of the two
statements. (To put essentially the same thought another
way, either of the two statements is a good answer to the
question.) And neither of the two tells you anything else
of significance.
With either statement, the person has conveyed the
information that he or she is satisfied with his or her
ability to converse in English. He or she hasn't really
conveyed more significant information than that with either
statement, whether in English English or any other dialect
of English.
David
<exw...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Can you really say that whether a person tells you "I speak English
> well" or "I speak good English", you're left with any impression but
> that the person feels that he or she is an able speaker of English?
[Snip]
For all I know, the person making either of those statements knows no
other English but, given that he does, the fact of him, say, stuttering
(or even "stutterin'") might be some indication of whether his good,
bad, or indifferent English is spoken well.
Nick Wagg
news:3mk7v19ot9umme8jl...@4ax.com...
>
> With either statement, the person has conveyed the
> information that he or she is satisfied with his or her
> ability to converse in English. He or she hasn't really
> conveyed more significant information than that with either
> statement, whether in English English or any other dialect
> of English.
Not so. The person has *expressed the conviction* that he or
she is satisfied with his or her ability to converse in English.
But he or she has also conveyed information about how well or
how poorly they speak English to the discerning listener, perhaps
unwittingly.
Mike Stevens
> Can you really say that whether a person tells you "I speak
> English well" or "I speak good English", you're left with
> any impression but that the person feels that he or she is
> an able speaker of English? It's one thing to know that
> there's a theoretical difference between the two.
I think it's more than a theoretical difference. It's one of nuance, which
is only sometimes relevant. For example somebody with a speech impediment
might very properly say "I don't speak English well, but I do speak good
English."
Bob Cunningham
<michael...@which.net> said:
> Bob Cunningham wrote:
> > Can you really say that whether a person tells you "I speak
> > English well" or "I speak good English", you're left with
> > any impression but that the person feels that he or she is
> > an able speaker of English? It's one thing to know that
> > there's a theoretical difference between the two.
> I think it's more than a theoretical difference. It's one of nuance, which
> is only sometimes relevant. For example somebody with a speech impediment
> might very properly say "I don't speak English well, but I do speak good
> English."
In the situation you postulate, the speaker would say "I
don't speak well, but I do speak good English". If he or
she says "I don't speak English well", that doesn't pertain
to the quality of his or her speech, but to the quality of
his or her English: good, bad, or somewhere in between.
K. Edgcombe
Paul Burke <pa...@scazon.com> wrote:
>Aelfrith wrote:
>> I way always told English is either correct or incorrect, it can't be good
>> or bad, well or ill.
Of course, in the original expression, the English wouldn't be well, it would
be the speaking of it (in other words, well is an adverb not an adjective
here).
I agree with other contributors that there is sometimes a difference of
meaning, and that "I speak good English", though not modest, is perfectly
grammatical and normal.
Katy
neelu...@gmail.com
Don P
>> A Sunday pub lunch disagreement needs resolving. A friend stated that 'I
>> speak good English' is actally not good English at all and that 'I speak
>> English well' is the correct way of saying it. Is she correct and, if so, why?
sentence is correct. Similarly if we parse "well" as an
adverb modifying the verb speak, that sentence is correct.
Nothing in these eight words dictates how we ought to
parse either sentence. Our action of parsing is what classifies
one as either correct (viz. good as adjective) or incorrect
(good as an erroneous adverb.) The correctness of a person
(or a person's opinion) is secondary.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa Canada)
Dev
"Good!"
"I wasn't questioning your morals; I was enquiring about your health."
"That's good, as well." ;-)
--
Dev
Om Namah Shivaya | Om Giri-dhanvine namaha
Whiskers
--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~
occam
question (Feb 2006). I also sincerely hope he is still not in the pub,
waiting for this answer.
My original answer would have been: "If you have to ask, no, you don't
do either"