Keyboard layouts

[Chris Ridd]

While perusing the configuration pages for the new MBPs, I noticed that
the store still gives you a keyboard layout option.

Obviously most of the options are great if you're usually writing in
other languages.

But if you're writing Engish, you can choose between "British",
"International English" and "US English". Has anyone ever chosen the
latter two, and if so why?

--
Chris

[Graeme Wall]

I suspect many Americans choose the US English option.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

[Chris]

I suspect the question was directed to UK purchasers given the name of this
ng.

[Graeme Wall]

There are quite a few Americans living here for one reason or another.

[Mark]

But why are they here? I am suspicious...
--
Cheers ... Mark

[Bruce Horrocks]

On 19/10/2021 17:14, Chris Ridd wrote:

Two reasons, neither of which are particularly compelling: 1) I learned
to type on teletypes with US layouts and there is a certain familiarity.
2) Despite using UK layouts at work and so on for years, I've never
really become comfortable with the double height enter key: extra width
on the key is more useful to me than extra height for typing more
quickly. (There's a reason the space bar is long not tall!)

--
Bruce Horrocks
Surrey, England

[Diesel / Gremlin]

If Silver Slimer calls getting his ass *kicked hard* like an idiot for years
on end by Michael Glasser AKA Snit (and completely ruining his reputation
and any reason for advocates to believe anything he has to say - until the
cows come home) effective 'trolling', then yeah... he is a magnificent troll.
I do not personally go along with that definition, I use another term. I
call him a total imbecile.

That's our Silver Slimer, though, no need for morals and such. Believes
if your desktop/port list is online, he's got the right to use your CPU cycles,
whether you agree or not. Socks that Silver Slimer can not prove are mine.
Why would I, or anyone, need socks to reveal what we all often say about
Silver Slimer?

Which regular knows Python, is a web developer, has hacked Michael Glasser
AKA Snit's ID, has an obsession and is a colossal tantrum throwing loser
who, when he gets a bad case of narcissistic rage/injury going, posts lie
after lie after lie even when he's _not_ flooding... AND... who struggles
to blame everything he is doing on "Michael Glasser AKA Snit" and has for
his whole life?

I am not going to pretend Michael Glasser AKA Snit did not give me good
advice on my network and I am indebted to him for his service. Silver Slimer
has Michael Glasser AKA Snit as an example and could learn to appear like
he is not just making things up from now on... but he screwed up when he
trolled Michael Glasser AKA Snit.

When I was being honest, I wanted to be equitable and nonjudgemental. I
gave Silver Slimer more than a rational person could be expected to.

--
This broke the Internet!
Automate Google Groups https://groups.google.com/forum/#!search/Petruzzellis$20or$20Carroll
Narcissistic Bigot Steve Carroll

[Chris Ridd]

On 19/10/2021 19:02, Chris wrote:

> Graeme Wall <ra...@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 19/10/2021 17:14, Chris Ridd wrote:
>>> While perusing the configuration pages for the new MBPs, I noticed that
>>> the store still gives you a keyboard layout option.
>>>
>>> Obviously most of the options are great if you're usually writing in
>>> other languages.
>>>
>>> But if you're writing Engish, you can choose between "British",
>>> "International English" and "US English". Has anyone ever chosen the
>>> latter two, and if so why?
>>>
>>
>> I suspect many Americans choose the US English option.

Yes, that would be an obvious thing for them to choose.

> I suspect the question was directed to UK purchasers given the name of this
> ng.

Exactly.

--
Chris

[Chris Ridd]

I've noticed that vmware gets itself into a bit of a mess with UK
keyboards - on important things like the backslash/pipe key.

Left-pondians get a wider left shift key and the displaced
back-tick/tilde key moves to the top left and replaces the rather
strange plus-minus/section key.

Given that I'm likely to be given a new work laptop at some point with a
British keyboard I wonder if choosing a different one for home is going
to cause headaches..

--
Chris

[Ian McCall]

On 20 Oct 2021, Alan B wrote
(in article<skoct7$non$1...@alanrichardbarker.eternal-september.org>):

> I can’t speak for Windows VMs but with Linux VMs I only seem to have
> problems with the grave/tilde and section/+- keys being transposed. So I’ve
> created a startup script which calls up xmodmap to correct things. The
> > /.Xmodmap file I created contains:
>
> keycode 49 = grave asciitilde
> keycode 94 = section plusminus

I -never- get my keyboards working properly under Linux VMs. Partly because I
don’t know what to pick - is it a Macintosh keyboard layout? A ‘normal’
one because VMware already translates? UK etc.?

Never works fully and drives me up the wall.

Cheers,
Ian

[Dustin the dude with the stuck floppy]

LOL!

Obviously, since programmers can call vallor out (repeatedly), he's lied;
otherwise everyone else must be lying be about him, and I don't think vallor's
willing to claim it is mass accusation of himself and demand that's even
possible.

Snit Glasser's computer has more scripts than vallor's. Snit Glasser wins.
vallor loses. So take that, vallor.

I've been scanning a bit from some of those old threads he was previously
shown to be bragging about degrees he does not have. I noticed that many
of those he would go out of his way to frequently attack had extensive high-
tech knowledge. I didn't find many who were also proficient in the circuitry
side of things, or were also trained as an electrician along with various
aspects of IS; with the diplomas to back it all up, too. The one skill vallor
learned fully is to try to guilt Snit Glasser into back peddling and if that
doesn't work, shout him down or subtly change the goalpost.

-
Puppy Videos!
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/108-Warrior-Dr-Kingsport-TN-37663/42459578_zpid/
http://www.phmc.state.pa.us/bah/dam/rg/di/r11_089_BirthIndexes/Birth_1909/M.PDF
Dustin Cook the functional illiterate fraud

[STALKING_TARGET_97]

Can you cease begging for my attention? And given how regularly it seems
that Snit sock Sockboy's .sig file is some exaggeration of a comment Apd
made which had been a beating on Snit sock Sockboy for something he did
which was insane/dishonest/etc... its clearly a daily gesture of Snit sock
Sockboy's ever-present distress for having been so repeatedly humiliated:
Snit sock Sockboy is obviously unable of taking heat. Um -- in Snit sock
Sockboy's 'brain', that a site has been published is "proof" that Apd built
it now? Of course my earliest statement stands accurate and correct.


--
Curious how these posts are made? Email: fretw...@gmail.com

[Basil Jet]

On 19/10/2021 21:42, Alan B wrote:

> Selling chlorinated chickens?
>

Unless they're selling them in dollars, they'd still be better off with
a British keyboard.

--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
2007 - Natural - Mekons

[Ian McCall]

On 20 Oct 2021, Basil Jet wrote
(in article <skp0ia$guf$2...@dont-email.me>):

> Unless they're selling them in dollars, they'd still be better off with
> a British keyboard.

What -is- International English anyway? British English I get, US I
get...International? I would have thought the other English-speaking markets
would have their own layout, not least for currency symbols.

Cheers,
Ian

[Snit Michael Glasser]

Usenet is a free phenomenon based on shared ethics that DBD lacks. Now
that nobody is replying to DBD, he's making it sound like he's proved
he knows Malwarebytes -- when in fact, people are just finally wisening
up to his crap. From what I've seen it looks like the trolling nonsense
is breaking down. Snit created at least 20 KVMS in the last year or so.
I am sure he and the herd are proud.

Did he think that was clever?

Honestly, what lie?


--
What Every Entrepreneur Must Know!
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=%22FUNCTIONAL+ILLITERATE+FRAUD%22
https://youtu.be/hYQ4Tg0r0g0
Dustin Cook the functionally illiterate fraud

[Chris Ridd]

The physical layout is identical to the British layout. The difference
is that the 2 and 3 keys use the US layout keycaps: there's no € on the
former key cap, and the latter key cap has # instead of £.

--
Chris

[Chris Ridd]

On 20/10/2021 10:04, Alan B wrote:

> I normally choose English (UK, Macintosh) when going through the Linux installation setup. Also (and I should have mentioned this earlier), in VMware Fusion Preferences under Keyboard & Mouse -> Key Mappings, I uncheck Enable Key Mappings and Enable Language Specific Key Mappings. This just leaves me to put right the grave/asciitilde and section/plusminus keys problem I mnetioned earlier.
>

I still couldn't get Windows right. Microsoft have a keyboard layout
editor tool thing, and despite getting all the right symbols on all the
right keys, when I hit the "§/±" key I still got "`/~". FFS.

Linux seems to have different tools per distro, because why not.
Centos's localectl didn't fix things for me.

--
Chris

[Martin S Taylor]

On Oct 19, 2021, Chris Ridd wrote
(in article <skmqtb$r5r$1...@dont-email.me>):

> But if you're writing Engish, you can choose between "British",
> "International English" and "US English". Has anyone ever chosen the
> latter two, and if so why?

I use a US English keyboard.

I was born in 1956, which means I am within the roughly two-year age bracket
where men were taught to touch-type. Any older and "typing is a woman's job".
Any younger and keyboards were so common that everyone was left to teach
themselves.

Anyhow, my hands are used to a US keyboard layout, and I'd find it very hard
to switch back. I'd especially miss the wide Shift key on the left.

(It's hard enough using the keyboard which came with my iMac Pro; I do use
it, although it's slightly narrower than my previous Apple Bluetooth
keyboard, and when my little finger leaps up to the Delete key, it still,
occasionally, can't find its way back to the home position.)

The "International English" keyboard is the same physical keyboard as one of
the other two (I can't remember which) but with different labels on the keys.

MST

[Chris]

I wonder if the British layout will shortly remove the €?

[Chris Ridd]

On 21/10/2021 09:39, Alan B wrote:

> Chris Ridd <chri...@mac.com> wrote:
>> I still couldn't get Windows right. Microsoft have a keyboard layout
>> editor tool thing, and despite getting all the right symbols on all the
>> right keys, when I hit the "§/±" key I still got "`/~". FFS.
>

> I gave up with trying to configure Mac keyboards for Windows VMs having
> played around with probably the same tool as you.

Does Bootcamp come with some Apple written keyboard layout for Windows?

> Mac keyboards for Ubuntu running either directly on Mac hardware or in a VM
> seem particularly easy, often working immediately if English (UK,
> Macintosh) is selected. As I indicated previously, keyboard mapping in
> VMware Linux VMs seems to need a bit of tweaking though.

I wonder if ARM Linuxes will have the same problems.

--
Chris

[Chris Ridd]

On 21/10/2021 09:18, Martin S Taylor wrote:
> On Oct 19, 2021, Chris Ridd wrote
> (in article <skmqtb$r5r$1...@dont-email.me>):
>
>> But if you're writing Engish, you can choose between "British",
>> "International English" and "US English". Has anyone ever chosen the
>> latter two, and if so why?
>
> I use a US English keyboard.
>
> I was born in 1956, which means I am within the roughly two-year age bracket
> where men were taught to touch-type. Any older and "typing is a woman's job".
> Any younger and keyboards were so common that everyone was left to teach
> themselves.
>
> Anyhow, my hands are used to a US keyboard layout, and I'd find it very hard
> to switch back. I'd especially miss the wide Shift key on the left.

How do you type € and £ - just option-2 and option-3?

--
Chris

[Jaimie Vandenbergh]

On 21 Oct 2021 at 14:36:20 BST, "Chris Ridd" <chri...@mac.com> wrote:

> On 21/10/2021 09:39, Alan B wrote:
>> Chris Ridd <chri...@mac.com> wrote:
>>> I still couldn't get Windows right. Microsoft have a keyboard layout
>>> editor tool thing, and despite getting all the right symbols on all the
>>> right keys, when I hit the "§/±" key I still got "`/~". FFS.
>>
>> I gave up with trying to configure Mac keyboards for Windows VMs having
>> played around with probably the same tool as you.
>
> Does Bootcamp come with some Apple written keyboard layout for Windows?

It does. I extracted it from the driver bundle and keep it to hand. I
vaguely recall that it doesn't work right in a VM Windows though.

I just opened up my Parallels (on Intel) and the keymap works perfectly
in Win10 there. Going to Win10's settings for the Keyboard and it's
"English (United Kingdom) - United Kingdom (Apple) - Parallels" so
they've done it themselves now.

Cheers - Jaimie
--
There's no limit to the amount of work someone can do,
provided it's not the work they're supposed to be doing.

[Martin S Taylor]

On Oct 21, 2021, Chris Ridd wrote
(in article <skrr1r$m65$2...@dont-email.me>):

> > Anyhow, my hands are used to a US keyboard layout, and I'd find it very hard
> > to switch back. I'd especially miss the wide Shift key on the left.
>
> How do you type € and £ - just option-2 and option-3?

€ Is option-2

£ is Shift-3

# is option-3

That's how it works when you select a British keyboard in Keyboard> Input
Sources, but the physical thing in front of you is a US keyboard.

MST

[Chris Ridd]

Which is exactly the same as the British physical keyboard. Good to
hear, thanks Martin.

--
Chris

[nospam]

In article <skshes$flj$1...@dont-email.me>, Chris Ridd <chri...@mac.com>
wrote:

> >>> Anyhow, my hands are used to a US keyboard layout, and I'd find it very
> >>> hard
> >>> to switch back. I'd especially miss the wide Shift key on the left.
> >>
> >> How do you type ¤ and £ - just option-2 and option-3?
> >
> > ¤ Is option-2
> >
> > £ is Shift-3
> >
> > # is option-3
> >
> > That's how it works when you select a British keyboard in Keyboard> Input
> > Sources, but the physical thing in front of you is a US keyboard.
>
> Which is exactly the same as the British physical keyboard. Good to
> hear, thanks Martin.

the input source is what matters.

it's best if the physical keyboard matches so you get the characters
you expect, but that's not required.

if they don't, it's easily fixed with a keyboard cover that matches the
input source. there are also keyboard covers for apps that have a lot
of keyboard shortcuts (photoshop, final cut, etc.).

[Bruce Horrocks]

I'm not quite sure why Martin has a US keyboard layout but sets input
mode to British? Aren't @ and " swapped over?

Just as easy to use US keyboard, in which case:

€ is shift option 2 (option 2 is ™)
£ is option 3
# is shift 3

[Chris Ridd]

On 22/10/2021 00:05, Bruce Horrocks wrote:
> On 21/10/2021 21:10, Chris Ridd wrote:
>> On 21/10/2021 20:59, Martin S Taylor wrote:
>>> On Oct 21, 2021, Chris Ridd wrote
>>> (in article <skrr1r$m65$2...@dont-email.me>):
>>>
>>>>> Anyhow, my hands are used to a US keyboard layout, and I'd find it
>>>>> very hard
>>>>> to switch back. I'd especially miss the wide Shift key on the left.
>>>>
>>>> How do you type € and £ - just option-2 and option-3?
>>>
>>> € Is option-2
>>>
>>> £ is Shift-3
>>>
>>> # is option-3
>>>
>>> That's how it works when you select a British keyboard in Keyboard>
>>> Input
>>> Sources, but the physical thing in front of you is a US keyboard.
>>
>> Which is exactly the same as the British physical keyboard. Good to
>> hear, thanks Martin.
>>
>
> I'm not quite sure why Martin has a US keyboard layout but sets input
> mode to British? Aren't @ and " swapped over?

Well he gets the physically bigger left shift and sideways return key too.

It looks like " is on the same comma key on both keyboards.

> Just as easy to use US keyboard, in which case:
>
> € is shift option 2 (option 2 is ™)
> £ is option 3
> # is shift 3

That's workable. I type # more than I type £, and if I feel inclined
otherwise I can set the logical layout to British.

--
Chris

[Martin S Taylor]

On Oct 22, 2021, Chris Ridd wrote
(in article <sktogs$tal$1...@dont-email.me>):

> > I'm not quite sure why Martin has a US keyboard layout but sets input
> > mode to British? Aren't @ and " swapped over?
>
> Well he gets the physically bigger left shift and sideways return key too.
>
> It looks like " is on the same comma key on both keyboards.

Yes, I think Bruce is confusing PC keyboards, which do have the " on the 2
key, and the @ somewhere near the Return.

>
>
> > Just as easy to use US keyboard, in which case:
> >
> > € is shift option 2 (option 2 is ™)
> > £ is option 3
> > # is shift 3

But more of a strain on the memory. I need € more often than I need ™.

MST

[Chris]

That's why I use the Australian layout. Identical to British except the £
and # are swapped and € is gone.

[Martin S Taylor]

On Oct 22, 2021, Chris wrote
(in article <sku33c$s7$1...@dont-email.me>):

> That's why I use the Australian layout. Identical to British except the £
> and # are swapped and € is gone.

What's in place of the € ?

MST

[J. J. Lodder]

Alan B <alanrich...@nospamgmail.com.here> wrote:

> If BJ has his way, then probably ;)

He's in charge of Apple too?

Jan

[Chris]

Sorry that should have been the euro symbol. And I lied it is not gone it
is opt+shift 2 rather than just opt+2

[Chris Ridd]

On 21/10/2021 16:19, Jaimie Vandenbergh wrote:
> On 21 Oct 2021 at 14:36:20 BST, "Chris Ridd" <chri...@mac.com> wrote:
>> Does Bootcamp come with some Apple written keyboard layout for Windows?
>
> It does. I extracted it from the driver bundle and keep it to hand. I
> vaguely recall that it doesn't work right in a VM Windows though.

I downloaded the "windows support" files from Bootcamp, and it does seem
to contain several keyboard-related things.

Didn't make any difference.

> I just opened up my Parallels (on Intel) and the keymap works perfectly
> in Win10 there. Going to Win10's settings for the Keyboard and it's
> "English (United Kingdom) - United Kingdom (Apple) - Parallels" so
> they've done it themselves now.

It sounds like Parallels is doing a better job making their VMs usable
on the Mac.

--
Chris

[SM]

My British layout on this MBP has been boycotting the € (here copied and
pasted from line above) for a while. Option-2 makes a bonk sound but no
symbol. Option-shift-2 gives ™.

Strange.


--
Cheers, Stuart

[Graham J]

SM wrote:

[snip]

>>
>> I wonder if the British layout will shortly remove the €?
>
> My British layout on this MBP has been boycotting the € (here copied and
> pasted from line above) for a while. Option-2 makes a bonk sound but no
> symbol. Option-shift-2 gives ™.
>
> Strange.

Your computer is infected with the Brexit virus ...


--
Graham J

[Graeme Wall]

You must have the Brexit version.


--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

[Chris Ridd]

Check that crashing programs don't spray raw sewage everywhere.

--
Chris

[SM]

On 26 Oct 2021 at 21:22:47 BST, "Graeme Wall" <ra...@greywall.demon.co.uk>
wrote:

>> My British layout on this MBP has been boycotting the € (here copied and
>> pasted from line above) for a while. Option-2 makes a bonk sound but no
>> symbol. Option-shift-2 gives ™.
>>
>> Strange.
>>
>
> You must have the Brexit version.

Our dear leader would probably impress upon me at length that it's a Great
British Bonk.

However, I'd like the € back. Anyone got an idea where to look? Looking in the
keyboard control panel pressing option shows € in the layout. All the others
eg. option-1, option-5 work as expected.

--
Cheers, Stuart

[Jaimie Vandenbergh]

What does System Prefs, Keyboard, Input sources show on the left?

Cheers - Jaimie
--
C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot; C++
makes it harder, but when you do, it blows away
your whole leg.
-- Bjarne Stroustrup

[Jaimie Vandenbergh]

On 27 Oct 2021 at 12:22:36 BST, "Jaimie Vandenbergh"

<jai...@usually.sessile.org> wrote:

> On 27 Oct 2021 at 07:50:05 BST, "SM" <john...@myemail.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 26 Oct 2021 at 21:22:47 BST, "Graeme Wall" <ra...@greywall.demon.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>> My British layout on this MBP has been boycotting the € (here copied and
>>>> pasted from line above) for a while. Option-2 makes a bonk sound but no
>>>> symbol. Option-shift-2 gives ™.
>>>>
>>>> Strange.
>>>>
>>>
>>> You must have the Brexit version.
>>
>> Our dear leader would probably impress upon me at length that it's a Great
>> British Bonk.
>>
>> However, I'd like the € back. Anyone got an idea where to look? Looking in the
>> keyboard control panel pressing option shows € in the layout. All the others
>> eg. option-1, option-5 work as expected.
>
> What does System Prefs, Keyboard, Input sources show on the left?

I should say mine just says "British". If you hit the + you'll get a
list of different Englishe, although only "British - PC" also has the
word British in it.

Cheers - Jaimie

--
Homographic homophonic autantonyms: "They're words
that do their job in the most sullen, passive-aggressive
way possible, and they totally get away with it!"
-- http://www.qwantz.com/index.php?comic=1104

[SM]

On 27 Oct 2021 at 12:27:37 BST, "Jaimie Vandenbergh"

<jai...@usually.sessile.org> wrote:

> On 27 Oct 2021 at 12:22:36 BST, "Jaimie Vandenbergh"
> <jai...@usually.sessile.org> wrote:
>
>> On 27 Oct 2021 at 07:50:05 BST, "SM" <john...@myemail.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 26 Oct 2021 at 21:22:47 BST, "Graeme Wall" <ra...@greywall.demon.co.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> My British layout on this MBP has been boycotting the € (here copied and
>>>>> pasted from line above) for a while. Option-2 makes a bonk sound but no
>>>>> symbol. Option-shift-2 gives ™.
>>>>>
>>>>> Strange.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You must have the Brexit version.
>>>
>>> Our dear leader would probably impress upon me at length that it's a Great
>>> British Bonk.
>>>
>>> However, I'd like the € back. Anyone got an idea where to look? Looking in the
>>> keyboard control panel pressing option shows € in the layout. All the others
>>> eg. option-1, option-5 work as expected.
>>
>> What does System Prefs, Keyboard, Input sources show on the left?
>
> I should say mine just says "British". If you hit the + you'll get a
> list of different Englishe, although only "British - PC" also has the
> word British in it.
>
> Cheers - Jaimie

The only input source is British - that's where pressing option shows the 2
key change to € on the keyboard graphic on the right hand pane.

I just noticed that as I pressed option-2 the symbol didn't appear but the
Usenap page scrolled to the bottom, making the typed sentence jump up a couple
of lines - hmm...

--
Cheers, Stuart

[SM]

On 27 Oct 2021 at 14:28:59 BST, "SM" <john...@myemail.invalid> wrote:

>>> What does System Prefs, Keyboard, Input sources show on the left?
>>
>> I should say mine just says "British". If you hit the + you'll get a
>> list of different Englishe, although only "British - PC" also has the
>> word British in it.
>>
>> Cheers - Jaimie
>
> The only input source is British - that's where pressing option shows the 2
> key change to € on the keyboard graphic on the right hand pane.
>
> I just noticed that as I pressed option-2 the symbol didn't appear but the
> Usenap page scrolled to the bottom, making the typed sentence jump up a couple
> of lines - hmm...

It was one of Brett Terpstra's keybindings that used option-2 - the € is back!

--
Cheers, Stuart