"unable to verify account name or password"

[Mark]

Out of the blue I'm getting the above error on my three (Gmail) desktop
Mail accounts - they've gone offline. I can log in with Safari, and
Mail app & Gmail app are A-OK on the iPhone.... I tried the saved
passwords from 1Password but just get the same (I used the same
password to log in on desktop Safari instead of autofill to check). The
error shows in Mail or Internet Accounts. No updates etc done recently.

The only thing I can think of is that I let my housemate log in to her
Gmail account using mobile Safari yesterday, and after I'd finished I
selected 'log out of all acoounts' (or similar, I think). But I've used
desktop Mail between now and then...

Help!


--
Cheers ... Mark

[Chris]

Are you aware of the 2FA/OAuth changes at the end of last month?
https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/6010255

Essentially they've disabled username/password only access to gmail.
You'll need to update how you access your email via Mail.

[Mark]

It suggests that because I'm using Mail on Mojave (both now being too
'old') I can't use a username/password?

From 30th May - but this happened today? Also, my fourth gmail account
is ok - although in Internet Accounts it has the square google icon net
to it, instead of the square blue Internet Account icon.

Also 'when signing in'... I don't sign in - I'm always already signed in.

And, this all seems to refer to a 'password incorrect'error message,
not "unable to verify account name or password"

Lordy, I'm confused!
--
Cheers ... Mark

[Chris]

Mark <captai...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2022-06-07 16:21:22 +0000, Chris <ithi...@gmail.com> said:
>
>> On 07/06/2022 16:29, Mark wrote:
>>> Out of the blue I'm getting the above error on my three (Gmail) desktop
>>> Mail accounts - they've gone offline. I can log in with Safari, and
>>> Mail app & Gmail app are A-OK on the iPhone.... I tried the saved
>>> passwords from 1Password but just get the same (I used the same
>>> password to log in on desktop Safari instead of autofill to check). The
>>> error shows in Mail or Internet Accounts. No updates etc done recently.
>>>
>>> The only thing I can think of is that I let my housemate log in to her
>>> Gmail account using mobile Safari yesterday, and after I'd finished I
>>> selected 'log out of all acoounts' (or similar, I think). But I've used
>>> desktop Mail between now and then...
>>
>> Are you aware of the 2FA/OAuth changes at the end of last month?
>> https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/6010255
>>
>> Essentially they've disabled username/password only access to gmail.
>> You'll need to update how you access your email via Mail.
>
> It suggests that because I'm using Mail on Mojave (both now being too
> 'old') I can't use a username/password?
>
> From 30th May - but this happened today?

But you logged out of all your email accounts yesterday. It probably reset
some login credentials.

> Also, my fourth gmail account
> is ok - although in Internet Accounts it has the square google icon net
> to it, instead of the square blue Internet Account icon.

Are they all POP or IMAP accounts?

> Also 'when signing in'... I don't sign in - I'm always already signed in.
>
> And, this all seems to refer to a 'password incorrect'error message,
> not "unable to verify account name or password"
>
> Lordy, I'm confused!

Do you have 2FA set on your gmail? That's the main thing that needs to be
enabled.

[Mark]

On 2022-06-07 19:44:13 +0000, Chris <ithi...@gmail.com> said:

> Mark <captai...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 2022-06-07 16:21:22 +0000, Chris <ithi...@gmail.com> said:
>>
>>> On 07/06/2022 16:29, Mark wrote:
>>>> Out of the blue I'm getting the above error on my three (Gmail) desktop
>>>> Mail accounts - they've gone offline. I can log in with Safari, and
>>>> Mail app & Gmail app are A-OK on the iPhone.... I tried the saved
>>>> passwords from 1Password but just get the same (I used the same
>>>> password to log in on desktop Safari instead of autofill to check). The
>>>> error shows in Mail or Internet Accounts. No updates etc done recently.
>>>>
>>>> The only thing I can think of is that I let my housemate log in to her
>>>> Gmail account using mobile Safari yesterday, and after I'd finished I
>>>> selected 'log out of all acoounts' (or similar, I think). But I've used
>>>> desktop Mail between now and then...
>>>
>>> Are you aware of the 2FA/OAuth changes at the end of last month?
>>> https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/6010255
>>>
>>> Essentially they've disabled username/password only access to gmail.
>>> You'll need to update how you access your email via Mail.
>>
>> It suggests that because I'm using Mail on Mojave (both now being too
>> 'old') I can't use a username/password?
>>
>> From 30th May - but this happened today?
>
> But you logged out of all your email accounts yesterday. It probably reset
> some login credentials.

Does "logging out of all accounts" on the Gmail web interface log me
out of Gmail on the desktop? I didn't realise that. I'm sure I've done
that before without issue.

>
>> Also, my fourth gmail account
>> is ok - although in Internet Accounts it has the square google icon net
>> to it, instead of the square blue Internet Account icon.
>
> Are they all POP or IMAP accounts?

Two POP, one IMAP. Plus I have a fourth Gmail account which is ok.

Also, my main Gmail account (one of the ones with the error) workd ok
on my other laptop.

>
>> Also 'when signing in'... I don't sign in - I'm always already signed in.
>>
>> And, this all seems to refer to a 'password incorrect'error message,
>> not "unable to verify account name or password"
>>
>> Lordy, I'm confused!
>
> Do you have 2FA set on your gmail? That's the main thing that needs to be
> enabled.

No - just username/password.


--
Cheers ... Mark

[Mark]

On 2022-06-07 20:21:46 +0000, TimS <timst...@greenbee.net> said:

> Your email client will log in , get mail, and then logout.
>
> Read this:
>
> What I have found is that one can continue with the existing client setup by
> using something called an app-specific password. I'm doing this and it seems
> to work. Here's how.
>
> Firstly, you'll need to logon to your gmail account, and under "Manage
> account", choose "Security". Then, choose to enable Two-step-verification, or
> 2SV as they call it (also known as 2FA, or "two factor authentication"). This
> will take you through a sequence where you signup your smart phone to receive
> a code to enter, in addition to your password, at your sign in to Google from
> a device you've not signed in from previously.
>
> Having done this, return to your Security page, and in the part on "Signing in
> to Google", you'll see the section about "App Passwords". Expand that section
> next. Where you see "Select device" in that section, choose your device type.
> Then, where it says "Select App", choose "Other" and enter "iLetter". Now you
> can click "Generate". This will put up a pane with a password in large type
> that you need to copy (with ctrl/cmd-c or similar) to the clipboard.
>
> Now switch to you email client and open the Preferences. Choose your gmail
> account, highlight the password field, and paste (with ctrl/cmd-v or similar)
> the password you copied above into the password field. Then click Save.
>
> Job done.

Seems rather involved! I wonder what 'iLetter' is? My other laptop
Mail/Gmail account is ok (one of the three with errors on main laptop),
and my 4th Gmail account is ok on my main laptop. Odd.

I'll work through your suggestion. Thanks.
--
Cheers ... Mark

[Mark]

Ahhhhh.... 'iLetter' is an email client. I'd assume Mail is available
at the 'Select App' stage.
--
Cheers ... Mark

[Chris Ridd]

Deliberately so, I suspect, because it means your app is using weakened
security.

I hope that Apple's (re?) discovery of webauthn/FIDO in Ventura/iOS 16
will accelerate the number of sites and services that no longer rely on
usernames and passwords. At the moment, not even many websites support it.

--
Chris

[Chris]

You probably don't want to do this, but a full logout would verify
whether it truly is unaffected.

>>> Also 'when signing in'... I don't sign in - I'm always already signed
>>> in.
>>>
>>> And, this all seems to refer to a 'password incorrect'error message,
>>> not "unable to verify account name or password"
>>>
>>> Lordy, I'm confused!
>>
>> Do you have 2FA set on your gmail? That's the main thing that needs to be
>> enabled.
>
> No - just username/password.

Google are enforcing stronger security so in order to access gmail with
third party apps you need to at least have 2FA enabled.

I suspect any gmail account you have that is currently still working
will fail as credentials expire or logins reset.

[Mark]

You're right - I don't (at least, for now)!

>
>>>> Also 'when signing in'... I don't sign in - I'm always already signed in.
>>>>
>>>> And, this all seems to refer to a 'password incorrect'error message,
>>>> not "unable to verify account name or password"
>>>>
>>>> Lordy, I'm confused!
>>>
>>> Do you have 2FA set on your gmail? That's the main thing that needs to be
>>> enabled.
>>
>> No - just username/password.
>
> Google are enforcing stronger security so in order to access gmail with
> third party apps you need to at least have 2FA enabled.
>
> I suspect any gmail account you have that is currently still working
> will fail as credentials expire or logins reset.

Even (up-to-date) Mail on the iPhone?
--
Cheers ... Mark

[Michael Phillips]

References: <t7nqs5$p7k$1...@gioia.aioe.org> <t7ntu3$44h$1...@dont-email.me> <jg9qaq...@mid.individual.net> <t7ocm9$1c7g$1...@gioia.aioe.org> <jgb7ae...@mid.individual.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=fixed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
User-Agent: Usenapp for MacOS
X-Usenapp: v1.21/d - Full License

I was having the same problem with my POP Gmail account and Mail
(Catalina). I followed TimS's instruction and all now seems ticketyboo.
So thanks TimS.

--
mhphillips at gmail dot com

[Chris]

Yup. The client doesn't matter. The only exception is the gmail app.
Unsurprisingly.

[Mark]

Suppose at least there’s that till things get sorted out here!

--
Cheers ... Mark

[David Kennedy]

I've been through it with three accounts and what a pain it is/was with the
constant requests for passwords to prove how security minded they are...

Of course, it also allows them to harvest more data...

[David Kennedy]

On 08/06/2022 07:22, Chris Ridd wrote:

>
> Deliberately so, I suspect, because it means your app is using weakened security.
>

I doubt that. Google trying hard to convince people that they have the only
safe pair of hands...

I've mostly dumped them for searches I suppose now I need to look around at
email providers.

[Chris]

As they say, if the service is free then the product is you.

[David Kennedy]

Very True!

[Mark]

Well, after all that i finally got enough courage to sort this out (I'm
always petrified of email/iCloud/Notes getting disconnected in some way
between devices - plus I'm still hazy on the whole POP/IMAP thing).

I started by deleting the accounts in Sys Prefs -> Internet Accounts
(there were two of each - the one with the Gmail icon (inactive) and
one with the Mail icon, although neither 'worked'). Simply re-adding
those accounts there worked, although I was bounced to Safari/Gmail for
each to sign in.

And that's it. My Notes seem ok (thank god) - but I'll have to go
through sorting out those emails marked as read/not read - but apart
from that, phew. My phone seems ok, but on my other laptop my main
account is fine (but then it was before), while another account is
still not working. Maybe I need to delete/re-add it from there?

I know it's partly me, but the POP/IMAP/iCloud/Gmail/Mail conncting
multiple devices thing seems like one of the less 'user friendly'
aspects of Apple's ecosystem.

Cheers ... Mark

[Graham J]

Alan B wrote:

[snip]

> Ages ago having a mix of POP and IMAP for an account accessed over multiple
> devices I found very confusing. So it’s IMAP all the time now. I don’t
> think Apple can be entirely blamed!

There's virtually no justification for using POP these days. Possible
excuses are:

1. Very old m/c & client (as for Liz Tuddenham).

2. You use only one email client on just one machine.

3. Non-availability of IMAP on your mail server (sometimes a limitation
of ISP's which only provide internet connectivity).

4. Very limited storage on your mail server, so POP has to be used to
download & remove mails from server (which is its normal configuration).
You can of course configure your client to behave that way for IMAP -
this may be beyond the capabilities of the naive user.

Another problem is the inability of the user to delete old/read/unwanted
emails. I've seen 50GB mail server storage spaces fill up in a matter
of months for non-technical users such as solicitors. Such users need
to employ a full-time IT support person, who archives such emails as may
be legally necessary.


--
Graham J

[Mark]

I think my first email address was a .ru domain with a Russian ISP back
in the early 90s. Just the one POP account. That lasted several years,
then I had a Madasafish account in the early 00s. I'd heard about IMAP
but the whole email thing was a bit of a mystery to me, so it was 'if
it aint broke, don't fix it'.

Eventually went with Gmail (after Hotmail & Yahoo briefly - and my own
domain), but still didn't really understand the protocols & didn't make
the effort to find out. And here we are.
--
Cheers ... Mark

[John Hill]

On 20 Jun 2022 at 16:57:41 BST, "Alan B"

<alanrich...@nospamgmail.com.invalid> wrote:

> Ages ago having a mix of POP and IMAP for an account accessed over multiple
> devices I found very confusing. So it’s IMAP all the time now. I don’t
> think Apple can be entirely blamed!

This prompts me to raise a problem that has bothered me for some time.

I thought - and still think - that all mail in an IMAP account was supposed to
be equally available on all devices accessing the account.

Mail on my iPad doesn't work that way. "Read" Mail soon disappears from the
inboxes and other folders when it is clearly visible in Mail on my iMac, and I
can find no way of accessing or retreiving it.

How can this be? What do I need to do to put this right?

John.

--
Classic computing: Computers do what you tell them to do, not what you want them to do.
Modern computing: Computers do what they want to do, no matter what you tell them to do.

[Graham J]

John Hill wrote:
> On 20 Jun 2022 at 16:57:41 BST, "Alan B"
> <alanrich...@nospamgmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Ages ago having a mix of POP and IMAP for an account accessed over multiple
>> devices I found very confusing. So it’s IMAP all the time now. I don’t
>> think Apple can be entirely blamed!
>
> This prompts me to raise a problem that has bothered me for some time.
>
> I thought - and still think - that all mail in an IMAP account was supposed to
> be equally available on all devices accessing the account.

That is correct.

> Mail on my iPad doesn't work that way. "Read" Mail soon disappears from the
> inboxes and other folders when it is clearly visible in Mail on my iMac, and I

> can find no way of accessing or retrieving it.

>
> How can this be? What do I need to do to put this right?

Does the iPad have the option to set up its mail client to use POP, and
have you done that in error? If you send a message from the iPad, does
it appear in the "Sent" folder that is visible to other clients and via
Webmail? If not, this may confirm that the iPad is using POP.

It may be that your iPad Mail client has a filter to hide "Read"
messages. Possibly you set this up without understanding it.

It may go further and mark these messges on the server as having been
"read" by this client, so that even if you delete the account on the
client and re-create it those messages will not be re-delivered to the
client.

Can you try creating this account on a different iPad? Does that get
all the messages?



--
Graham J

[John Hill]

On 21 Jun 2022 at 08:51:10 BST, "Alan B"
<alanrich...@nospamgmail.com.invalid> wrote:

> If you don’t mind using a sledge hammer to crack a nut and you’re using
> IMAP, then deleting the account and recreating it should null any “dodgy”
> settings without losing any messages!

Tried that, without effect.

But I have found the solution; if I go to Settings/Mail/Accounts and select
the account, there is at the bottom a selector marked Days to Sync or some
such. There is no explanation and it is set by default to "One month". Turns
out that this cuts off the sync at a month back, not that it is the time
between syncs. Set it to No Limit, and all the missing posts appear.

A little explanation would have helped.

Presumably this is intended to limit the amout of space taken up by old mails.

John.

--
An infinitely complex system can fail in an infinite number of ways.

[Graham J]

John Hill wrote:

[snip]

>
> But I have found the solution; if I go to Settings/Mail/Accounts and select
> the account, there is at the bottom a selector marked Days to Sync or some
> such. There is no explanation and it is set by default to "One month". Turns
> out that this cuts off the sync at a month back, not that it is the time
> between syncs. Set it to No Limit, and all the missing posts appear.
>
> A little explanation would have helped.
>
> Presumably this is intended to limit the amout of space taken up by old mails.

Is this only on the iPad's Mail client, not on other iThings?


--
Graham J

[Andy Hewitt]

Interesting. I've Checked this on my iPad, iPhone and iMac, but cannot
see such an option on any of them, in any type of account (iCloud, Gmail
or Plusnet).

(goes to DuckDuckGo...)

Ah, seems this was removed as an option around iOS14.

Although I've only found that you simply keep scrolling down the list of
messages to keep downloading older ones that are stored on the server.

--
Andy H

[John Hill]

I haven't looked on my iPhone, but it is certainly there in iPadOS 15.5 for
Outlook and Exchange accounts. It is NOT there on my iCloud account, and
may well not be there for Gmail, which is odd in so many ways. Mail on the
iMac is different from Mail on an iPad, I don't think any such option
exists. Since IMHO it is to enable an iPad user to economise on space,
there's probably no need to have it on an iMac.

J.

--
Today is the tomorrow we worried about yesterday,and all is well.

[Andy Hewitt]

Right, from the searches I've done, it seems that's correct.

It only appears contextually on any service that supports the function.
It seems that Apple have removed the function, after having removed the
'Never' option at some point (a few years ago), and Gmail never had it.
Exchange does support it, so it should show up for that.

My iPad Pro, with 512GB storage, does look like it downloads complete
folders of messages. Although just checking my iPhone, so is that - both
are showing messages going back at least two years.

The iMac just stores everything.

My guess, and it really is a guess, is that Apple may have made this
storage dependent. As it does for the 'Optimised' setting in Photos,
where it automatically stores or purges depending on the available spare
storage space.

Other apps look like they might be able to force the function, I saw the
option was in BlueMail.

But, it does look like it's a server side function that may or may not
be supported by the mail client.

--
Andy H