Squash Windows?

[Davey]

I am looking for a new laptop, and came across the Dell Inspiron 15
5000. Although a link leads to the various OSs, amongst which is
Ubuntu, they don't actually offer it on that model. They suggested a
workstation, but that is over £3000, which is not in the same league.
If I chose the 15 5000 with built-in Win. 10, is it possible to shrink
it so that most of the system can then be filled with Ubuntu, but
leaving the Windows system still functioning? I did this with a Win. 7
PC, but I know that Win. 10 is a lot more 'sophisticated'.

Thanks for any help.

--
Davey.

[Schmitty]

I am currently looking for a Linux laptop as well, I think I will go for
one of these:

https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en/Linux-Hardware/Linux-Notebooks/15-16-inch/TUXEDO-Book-Pulse-15-Gen1.tuxedo#

https://configurelaptop.eu/

https://kde.slimbook.es/

--thomas.

[Martin Gregorie]

Will that machine take a second SATA disk or SSD drive, or an M2 format
SSD? If so, it should be possible to make the existing disk
/dev/sdb and the new one /dev/sda, make grub on /dev/sda the primary
bootloader an configure that so it can boot either Linux or Windows.

-----

FWIW I'm a fan of the Lenovo laptops as Linux machines. I have a fairly
old R61i and a T440, both running Fedora Linux with the XFCE desktop.
Both 'just work' and pretty much all Lenovo laptops are Linux-friendly:
they should be since their ancestral IBM ThinkPads were.

I've had the R61i from new (around 2005) and have replaced the fan
(twice), screen and disk over that time. Its still a nice machine to use,
but faster than before since I fitted an SSD. That was because the R61i's
hardware disk interface can't handle a disk of more than 250GB and, when
its original disk, a 120GB Toshiba, went bang in 2017, disks smaller than
320GB were no longer available. So, I dropped a 128GB Samsung SDD into it
and got a decent speed increase as a bonus. Its currently going like a
train, folding proteins 24/7.

I got the T440 in 2017 (£300 off eBay), when I thought the R61I wasn't
going to be recoverable. Its been my regular workhorse ever since and is
easily the fastest computer I've owned.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

[Davey]

On Mon, 1 Mar 2021 14:44:18 -0000 (UTC)
Martin Gregorie <mar...@mydomain.invalid> wrote:

> On Mon, 01 Mar 2021 15:09:19 +0100, Schmitty wrote:
>
> > Davey schrieb am 01.03.2021 um 14:08:
> >> I am looking for a new laptop, and came across the Dell Inspiron 15
> >> 5000. Although a link leads to the various OSs, amongst which is
> >> Ubuntu, they don't actually offer it on that model. They suggested
> >> a workstation, but that is over £3000, which is not in the same
> >> league. If I chose the 15 5000 with built-in Win. 10, is it
> >> possible to shrink it so that most of the system can then be
> >> filled with Ubuntu, but leaving the Windows system still
> >> functioning? I did this with a Win. 7 PC, but I know that Win. 10
> >> is a lot more 'sophisticated'.
> >>
> >> Thanks for any help.
> >>
> >>
> > I am currently looking for a Linux laptop as well, I think I will
> > go for one of these:
> >

snip

> I got the T440 in 2017 (£300 off eBay), when I thought the R61I
> wasn't going to be recoverable. Its been my regular workhorse ever
> since and is easily the fastest computer I've owned.
>
>

Thanks, both of you. Food for thought there.

--
Davey.

[Adrian Caspersz]

On 01/03/2021 14:44, Martin Gregorie wrote:
>
> I've had the R61i from new (around 2005) and have replaced the fan
> (twice), screen and disk over that time. Its still a nice machine to use,
> but faster than before since I fitted an SSD. That was because the R61i's
> hardware disk interface can't handle a disk of more than 250GB and, when
> its original disk, a 120GB Toshiba, went bang in 2017, disks smaller than
> 320GB were no longer available. So, I dropped a 128GB Samsung SDD into it
> and got a decent speed increase as a bonus. Its currently going like a
> train, folding proteins 24/7.

I've got the same machine, from memory (faulty) it was a cut down from
the T60/T61 series. I put an alternative "Middleton's BIOS" to get SATA2
support, just before installing an SSD. Didn't have much luck upgrading
the CPU further, and with Windows 7 the machine is currently a bit dormant.

So the R61i is gonna get a Linux build for portable video editing one
day, but I have five other thinkpads (mix of T400 and T500) that all
share the same dock which is convenient. I'm a bit of a collector.

These are very cheap now (<£100) and are my "dock-in" preference to
working with different operating systems than doing dual boot (unless I
drag the server iron out).

Docking stations are available for less than £10 on eBay. I buy old
'bios locked' machines on there for next to nothing. There are guides on
YouTube how to get out of that predicament with mostly tweezers.

Great keyboards, solid, well built, reliable but approaching 10 years
old, and some are heavy. These are however good workhouses for
programmers. They have to be branded ThinkPad and be part of that
family, not some junk from the Lenovo consumer division.

Linux support is brilliant and anything before Windows 10.

However I have the T500 on Windows 10 Insider with 8GB, it is a bit of a
slouch with a 5400rpm drive - there is an SSD on my desk waiting for me
to stop wibbling on usenet and get on with its installation.

This guy runs a good YouTube channel on the ThinkPad family, and has
some good pointers to more modern machines available cheaply.

Sebi's Random Tech
https://www.youtube.com/user/SebisGameReviews

Also recommend,

Wolfgang's Channel
https://www.youtube.com/c/WolfgangsChannel

--
Adrian C






--
Adrian C

[William Unruh]

On 2021-03-01, Davey <da...@example.invalid> wrote:
> I am looking for a new laptop, and came across the Dell Inspiron 15
> 5000. Although a link leads to the various OSs, amongst which is
> Ubuntu, they don't actually offer it on that model. They suggested a
> workstation, but that is over £3000, which is not in the same league.
> If I chose the 15 5000 with built-in Win. 10, is it possible to shrink
> it so that most of the system can then be filled with Ubuntu, but

It can be done with Windows 10 as well (I have) Unfortunately Win10
stuffs some system stuff into the middle of the (large) C: drive,
limiting the amount of shrinkage that you can do. I think there are ways
around that, but do not remember them.

[Grant Taylor]

On 3/1/21 9:25 AM, William Unruh wrote:
> Unfortunately Win10 stuffs some system stuff into the middle of the
> (large) C: drive, limiting the amount of shrinkage that you can do. I
> think there are ways around that, but do not remember them.

There are multiple ways around this.

- Some utilities; e.g. JkDefrag / MyDefrag and maybe contig, have the
ability to move things to one end or the other of the drive.
- Drive / partition image utilities can copy a drive / partition to a
different size target and lay things out in the smaller space.



--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

[Chris Green]

I'm not sure if I've said this in this thread but another vote for
t4xx series from Lenovo here. I had a t430, I now have a t470, both
excellent.

--
Chris Green
·

[Theo]

William Unruh <un...@invalid.ca> wrote:
> On 2021-03-01, Davey <da...@example.invalid> wrote:
> > I am looking for a new laptop, and came across the Dell Inspiron 15
> > 5000. Although a link leads to the various OSs, amongst which is
> > Ubuntu, they don't actually offer it on that model. They suggested a
> > workstation, but that is over £3000, which is not in the same league.
> > If I chose the 15 5000 with built-in Win. 10, is it possible to shrink
> > it so that most of the system can then be filled with Ubuntu, but
>
> It can be done with Windows 10 as well (I have) Unfortunately Win10
> stuffs some system stuff into the middle of the (large) C: drive,
> limiting the amount of shrinkage that you can do. I think there are ways
> around that, but do not remember them.

If it's a new machine I'd be looking at wiping the drive then installing
Windows from an ISO into an appropriately-size partition. That way you
don't get the various 'free trials' and other shovelware that tend to come
with new consumer laptops (plus bonus malware sometimes).

Depending on what spec you want, you may also find it cheaper to buy the
model with the smallest SSD and fit a blank, new, larger one in its place.
Keep the original SSD as a backup in case you sell the machine or need to
return it.

Theo

[Andy Burns]

Davey wrote:

> If I chose the 15 5000 with built-in Win. 10, is it possible to shrink
> it so that most of the system can then be filled with Ubuntu, but
> leaving the Windows system still functioning?

Do you actually want to dual boot between Linux and Win10, or is this a
"keep it just in case" option?

If the latter, then once Windows is activated you can remove it
completely and always re-install at a later time on the same machine ...

[Davey]

I had excluded Lenovo after a friend of mine suffered from whatever it
was that they messed up a few years ago, there was some stuff on the
drive that seemed to take control. However, enough of you are impressed
with them that I will take a look.

--
Davey.

[William Unruh]

It is not a question of defragging. It is a brand new installation of
Windows. I also used the Windows tool, because ntfs, being a proprietary
and secret (no details have ever been published by MS) system it is far
too easy for an open source program to screw it up. And the MS software
does not give any way of moving those bits.

>
>
>

[William Unruh]

On 2021-03-01, Theo <theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> William Unruh <un...@invalid.ca> wrote:
>> On 2021-03-01, Davey <da...@example.invalid> wrote:
>> > I am looking for a new laptop, and came across the Dell Inspiron 15
>> > 5000. Although a link leads to the various OSs, amongst which is
>> > Ubuntu, they don't actually offer it on that model. They suggested a
>> > workstation, but that is over £3000, which is not in the same league.
>> > If I chose the 15 5000 with built-in Win. 10, is it possible to shrink
>> > it so that most of the system can then be filled with Ubuntu, but
>>
>> It can be done with Windows 10 as well (I have) Unfortunately Win10
>> stuffs some system stuff into the middle of the (large) C: drive,
>> limiting the amount of shrinkage that you can do. I think there are ways
>> around that, but do not remember them.
>
> If it's a new machine I'd be looking at wiping the drive then installing
> Windows from an ISO into an appropriately-size partition. That way you
> don't get the various 'free trials' and other shovelware that tend to come
> with new consumer laptops (plus bonus malware sometimes).

Except the windows installer purposely knows nothing about other OS, and
tends to grab the whole disk for itself.

[Grant Taylor]

On 3/1/21 3:21 PM, William Unruh wrote:
> It is not a question of defragging.

I didn't mean to imply that it was.

I was referring to tools that move files around the file system. Defrag
utilities just happen to be common tools for doing that.

> It is a brand new installation of Windows. I also used the Windows
> tool, because ntfs, being a proprietary and secret (no details have
> ever been published by MS) system it is far too easy for an open
> source program to screw it up. And the MS software does not give any
> way of moving those bits.

Well, seeing as how JkDefrag / MyDefrag uses Microsoft provided APIs to
move files you should be perfectly fine. Seriously, go read the
documentation. JkDefrag / MyDefrag use the same APIs that Microsoft's
defrag uses.

I've been using many different open source utilities on NTFS for 25
years and have yet to have a problem when they are used properly.
Mostly, don't turn things off or disconnect drives improperly and you're
fine.

[Grant Taylor]

On 3/1/21 3:23 PM, William Unruh wrote:
> Except the windows installer purposely knows nothing about other OS,
> and tends to grab the whole disk for itself.

The installer recognizes partitions.

And that's also why you slap the crap out of the installer and tell it
to install where /you/ want it to go. It is beholden to you, not the
other way around.

[Adrian Caspersz]

On 01/03/2021 19:32, Davey wrote:
>
> I had excluded Lenovo after a friend of mine suffered from whatever it
> was that they messed up a few years ago, there was some stuff on the
> drive that seemed to take control. However, enough of you are impressed
> with them that I will take a look.
>

Pre-packaged root-kit virus?

Today's problem with Lenovo is that they are trying (badly) to ape Apple
on their recent products, and this wanting has strayed from their
consumer line (avoid) to their business Thinkpad line.

I'm not a fan of non-removable batteries, chiclet keyboards,
compromising thermals in small cases, all Apple innovations they copied.

--
Adrian C

[Davey]

On Tue, 2 Mar 2021 09:26:26 +0000
Adrian Caspersz <em...@here.invalid> wrote:

> On 01/03/2021 19:32, Davey wrote:
> >
> > I had excluded Lenovo after a friend of mine suffered from whatever
> > it was that they messed up a few years ago, there was some stuff on
> > the drive that seemed to take control. However, enough of you are
> > impressed with them that I will take a look.
> >
>
> Pre-packaged root-kit virus?
>

Yes, that was it. My friend was ready to throw the whole thing in the
river.

> Today's problem with Lenovo is that they are trying (badly) to ape
> Apple on their recent products, and this wanting has strayed from
> their consumer line (avoid) to their business Thinkpad line.
>
> I'm not a fan of non-removable batteries, chiclet keyboards,
> compromising thermals in small cases, all Apple innovations they
> copied.
>

A Non-removable battery would be a killer for me. Is that described on
the website, I wonder?

--
Davey.

[Martin Gregorie]

Does this recent article in El Reg tell you what you want to know?

https://www.theregister.com/2021/02/24/lenovo_refreshes_thinkpad_line/

[Davey]

Not really, no, but thanks anyway.

--
Davey.

[William Unruh]

Depends on what "non-removeable" means. On old laptops the battery was
in a separate package that you mated to the laptop. Ie, easily
removeable. Also heavy prone to electrical connection problems.
Removeable could also mean that you have to open up the case (10 screws)
to get at the battery. Which removable do you mean? If your laptop is
something you have on your desk and never move it, weight does not
matter. If you are constantly lugging it around, it does. The difference
between 1Kg and 2Kg is a lot when you are running 1km through an airport.
That demands an internal battery, and yes, it does make cooling more of
a challenge for the designer.
Ie, perhaps the reason they "copied" was not fashion, but consumer
demand.
>

[Martin Gregorie]

On Tue, 02 Mar 2021 10:15:39 +0000, Davey wrote:

> A Non-removable battery would be a killer for me. Is that described on
> the website, I wonder?
>

There's some stuff about a rather bulbous removable, which I think is
used as an optional extra to the internal battery. Can't remember which
model that was, though.

My T440 has an easily removable internal battery - I haven't tried taking
it off, but a glance at the underside shows a couple of inset sliding
catches at the edges of what's obviously the battery. The only things
sticking out of the base are four support pads.

Enen battery in the T440 is pretty light - 1.75 kg according to my
kitchen scales.

[Theo]

Yes, the installer will allow you to partition a blank drive.
You do need to create the partitions and tell it to use them.

Theo

[Theo]

William Unruh <un...@invalid.ca> wrote:
> Depends on what "non-removeable" means. On old laptops the battery was
> in a separate package that you mated to the laptop. Ie, easily
> removeable. Also heavy prone to electrical connection problems.
> Removeable could also mean that you have to open up the case (10 screws)
> to get at the battery. Which removable do you mean?

Many business laptops have 'removable' batteries - with screwdrivers.

They're not 'swappable', in the sense of being able to do it while the
machine is powered up. But the solution for that today is a USB-C external
power bank, not expecting to pull the battery.

Some laptops have batteries held in with glue (bad) or pull-tabs (ok but
annoying). They can also be troublesome in terms of getting inside - if you
have to hot-air to remove the screen, for example.

Lenovo are quite good in providing part replacement videos:
https://support.lenovo.com/gb/en/solutions/ht505031-parts-removal-and-replacement-videos-pcs-and-smart-devices

> If your laptop is something you have on your desk and never move it,
> weight does not matter. If you are constantly lugging it around, it does.
> The difference between 1Kg and 2Kg is a lot when you are running 1km
> through an airport. That demands an internal battery, and yes, it does
> make cooling more of a challenge for the designer. Ie, perhaps the reason
> they "copied" was not fashion, but consumer demand.

Indeed, laptops are have pushed the limits of their physical form a lot
lately. Every one is a solution point to a set of tradeoffs of size,
weight, performance, thermals, power, price, expandability, repairability.
Optimise for one thing and you'll have to compromise on something else.

Theo

[Chris Green]

Theo <theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> William Unruh <un...@invalid.ca> wrote:
> > Depends on what "non-removeable" means. On old laptops the battery was
> > in a separate package that you mated to the laptop. Ie, easily
> > removeable. Also heavy prone to electrical connection problems.
> > Removeable could also mean that you have to open up the case (10 screws)
> > to get at the battery. Which removable do you mean?
>
> Many business laptops have 'removable' batteries - with screwdrivers.
>
> They're not 'swappable', in the sense of being able to do it while the
> machine is powered up. But the solution for that today is a USB-C external
> power bank, not expecting to pull the battery.
>

I'm not sure about other Lenovo laptops but the T470 has two
batteries, one is 'swappable' and the other is 'internal' This allows
you to change the swappable one as the T470 can continue to run off
the 'internal' one.


--
Chris Green
·

[Grant Taylor]

On 3/2/21 2:45 PM, Theo wrote:
> Yes, the installer will allow you to partition a blank drive.

The installer will also allow you to delete existing partitions.

> You do need to create the partitions and tell it to use them.

Yep.

[Davey]

So what happened?

--
Davey.

[William Unruh]

On 2021-04-04, Davey <da...@example.invalid> wrote:
> On Mon, 1 Mar 2021 15:09:19 +0100
> Schmitty <Thomas.Hein...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>> Davey schrieb am 01.03.2021 um 14:08:
>> > I am looking for a new laptop, and came across the Dell Inspiron 15
>> > 5000. Although a link leads to the various OSs, amongst which is
>> > Ubuntu, they don't actually offer it on that model. They suggested a
>> > workstation, but that is over £3000, which is not in the same
>> > league. If I chose the 15 5000 with built-in Win. 10, is it
>> > possible to shrink it so that most of the system can then be filled
>> > with Ubuntu, but leaving the Windows system still functioning? I
>> > did this with a Win. 7 PC, but I know that Win. 10 is a lot more
>> > 'sophisticated'.

Having done it at least twice, the answer is yes. Windows 10 has a
partition shrinking utility. Use that. Then install on the freed space.

[Davey]

Thanks for the information, much appreciated. But I was actually asking
about the new laptop!

--
Davey.

[Davey]

On Mon, 1 Mar 2021 13:08:06 +0000
Davey <da...@example.invalid> wrote:

> I am looking for a new laptop, and came across the Dell Inspiron 15
> 5000. Although a link leads to the various OSs, amongst which is
> Ubuntu, they don't actually offer it on that model. They suggested a
> workstation, but that is over £3000, which is not in the same league.
> If I chose the 15 5000 with built-in Win. 10, is it possible to shrink
> it so that most of the system can then be filled with Ubuntu, but
> leaving the Windows system still functioning? I did this with a Win. 7
> PC, but I know that Win. 10 is a lot more 'sophisticated'.
>

> Thanks for any help.
>

I had narrowed my search down to:

HP 255 G7, from CPC, for £660, but made in China.
Dell New Inspiron 15 5000, for £711, made in USA.
PC Specialist Initia 15.6", for £764, made in UK?.

Then I saw that the Dell, the favourite of the three, does not have an
integral RJ-45 port, you need a dongle, which rather ruins the point of
having a laptop.

So, still looking, including at those suggested downthread.

--
Davey.

[Adrian Caspersz]

On 07/04/2021 10:30, Davey wrote:
> On Mon, 1 Mar 2021 13:08:06 +0000
> Davey <da...@example.invalid> wrote:
>
>> I am looking for a new laptop, and came across the Dell Inspiron 15
>> 5000. Although a link leads to the various OSs, amongst which is
>> Ubuntu, they don't actually offer it on that model. They suggested a
>> workstation, but that is over £3000, which is not in the same league.
>> If I chose the 15 5000 with built-in Win. 10, is it possible to shrink
>> it so that most of the system can then be filled with Ubuntu, but
>> leaving the Windows system still functioning? I did this with a Win. 7
>> PC, but I know that Win. 10 is a lot more 'sophisticated'.
>>
>> Thanks for any help.
>>
>
> I had narrowed my search down to:
>
> HP 255 G7, from CPC, for £660, but made in China.
> Dell New Inspiron 15 5000, for £711, made in USA.
> PC Specialist Initia 15.6", for £764, made in UK?.

All parts made in China, assembled in whereever. There is a movement to
show traceability of manufacture, but that is possibly for them with
high security concerns above everything else.

Made in US? HPE Trusted Supply Chain Server Teardown Where is it Really Made
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAF5prb9Hh0

---

PC Specialist are configuring laptops made by Clevo. A Taiwan ODM.

A review.

The CRAZY laptop manufacturer you've never heard of...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJRkSCf3dms

Consumer oriented, for game playing & multimedia creation (well, that one)

>
> Then I saw that the Dell, the favourite of the three, does not have an
> integral RJ-45 port, you need a dongle, which rather ruins the point of
> having a laptop.

The Inspiron range is consumer oriented, it will have wireless over
Ethernet. Use an external ethernet adaptor, or a USB Docking Station
solution.

Business laptops like the HP will have ethernet, a better build quality
for getting moved about, battery life, a real service manual and
available parts etc...

--
Adrian C

[Davey]

Politically, I would prefer Taiwan over China!

> A review.
>
> The CRAZY laptop manufacturer you've never heard of...
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJRkSCf3dms
>
> Consumer oriented, for game playing & multimedia creation (well, that
> one)
>
>
>
> >
> > Then I saw that the Dell, the favourite of the three, does not have
> > an integral RJ-45 port, you need a dongle, which rather ruins the
> > point of having a laptop.
>
> The Inspiron range is consumer oriented, it will have wireless over
> Ethernet. Use an external ethernet adaptor, or a USB Docking Station
> solution.
>

I can do without wireless on the PC, as long as the router has it. And
I don't want a docking station, for over £200, instead of an RJ-45
port, and the USB-LAN dongle looks large and ungainly.

> Business laptops like the HP will have ethernet, a better build
> quality for getting moved about, battery life, a real service manual
> and available parts etc...
>

Maybe I'll go back and look at the HP again...although the PC
Specialist one is good value, except I'm not sure about the integral
battery. A dual setup is another £50. When the integral battery fails,
do you have to send the whole thing back home to get it replaced? now
we are over £800.

Too much choice!

--
Davey.

[Theo]

Davey <da...@example.invalid> wrote:
> Maybe I'll go back and look at the HP again...although the PC
> Specialist one is good value, except I'm not sure about the integral
> battery. A dual setup is another £50. When the integral battery fails,
> do you have to send the whole thing back home to get it replaced? now
> we are over £800.

On most laptops, apart from 'thin and light', especially those made by Apple
or Microsoft, the battery can be replaced by unscrewing the bottom cover and
then the battery, possibly with some disassembly to get to it depending on
what else is in the way. Look up battery replacement videos for your chosen
model to see what's involved.

It is also worth looking into availability of replacement batteries - at the
cheaper end there is not much spares support, so in 3-4 years when you need
a new battery you might not be able to buy one (or only a dodgy Chinese
knockoff that doesn't work properly). It's worth thinking about buying a
replacement ahead of time.

Theo

[Martin Gregorie]

On Mon, 01 Mar 2021 16:21:39 +0000, Adrian Caspersz wrote:

> I've got the same machine, from memory (faulty) it was a cut down from
> the T60/T61 series. I put an alternative "Middleton's BIOS" to get SATA2
> support, just before installing an SSD. Didn't have much luck upgrading
> the CPU further, and with Windows 7 the machine is currently a bit
> dormant.
>
I got mine new. IIRC I booted it into Windows as part of workin gout how
to fiddle with the BIOS, found it a bit sluggish, and immediately shut it
down, a rebooted off the Fedora installation CD before completely wiping
the HDD and repartitioning for Linux: I like to have a root,usr and swap
partitions. A straight forward install later, It the up and feeling
faster and more responsive than it did in the brief Windows interlude.

That was 2005 IIRC, so would have been XP replaced by Fedora 4.

FWIW both my R61i and my T440, which are generally run off the mains,
still have their original batteries installed. It seems that the
batteries in both laptops are Duracell OEM.

[Adrian Caspersz]

On 07/04/2021 12:57, Davey wrote:
> On Wed, 7 Apr 2021 11:24:18 +0100
> Adrian Caspersz <em...@here.invalid> wrote:

>>
>> PC Specialist are configuring laptops made by Clevo. A Taiwan ODM.
>>
> Politically, I would prefer Taiwan over China!

:)

>>> Then I saw that the Dell, the favourite of the three, does not have
>>> an integral RJ-45 port, you need a dongle, which rather ruins the
>>> point of having a laptop.
>>
>> The Inspiron range is consumer oriented, it will have wireless over
>> Ethernet. Use an external ethernet adaptor, or a USB Docking Station
>> solution.

eBay has a few USB 3.0 port replicators for less than 30 quid (and some
much less if you can source their 'missing' power supplies). They are
useful in that it's just one small USB cable to attach, and you have
network / display / decent keyboard and mouse all connected in one fell
swoop.

If you want to walk around and connect to network points in random
locations then yeah, that's not for you.

>
> Too much choice!
>

Yeah, ain't it fun? :)

--
Adrian C

[Davey]

My last two laptops have kept their original batteries, but they don't
hold a charge; unplug the power feed, and they die. For this, my
current 10-year old laptop (due to be replaced!), I have a second
battery, which gets installed once per month, then fully charged, run
down to empty, and then recharged. So far this seems to be a working
process.
The other old laptop is there as a backup, it is slower than molasses,
but works if needed. As I found out once some years, one day, your PC
will greet you with a blank screen, and you need an alternative device.
All modified files are backed up every night, of course.

--
Davey.

[William Unruh]

On 2021-04-07, Davey <da...@example.invalid> wrote:

....

>>
>
> I had narrowed my search down to:
>
> HP 255 G7, from CPC, for £660, but made in China.
> Dell New Inspiron 15 5000, for £711, made in USA.
> PC Specialist Initia 15.6", for £764, made in UK?.
>
> Then I saw that the Dell, the favourite of the three, does not have an
> integral RJ-45 port, you need a dongle, which rather ruins the point of
> having a laptop.

Well, no. You need a dongle anyway for an RF45 port-- it is called a Cat
5/6 ethernet cable. IF you are going to use a wired connection you had
better carry a cable with you, or you are going to discover that many
places (hotels, etc) that have ethernet ports as well as wireless, do
NOT have cables for you (they tend to walk away with the guests). So it
is not clear to me why you would regard this as a severe impediment.

[William Unruh]

On 2021-04-07, Davey <da...@example.invalid> wrote:

> On Wed, 7 Apr 2021 11:24:18 +0100
> Adrian Caspersz <em...@here.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 07/04/2021 10:30, Davey wrote:

....
>>
> I can do without wireless on the PC, as long as the router has it.i
What router? You are not going to carry a router with you are you? And
you cmplain about a dongle?

>And
> I don't want a docking station, for over £200, instead of an RJ-45
> port, and the USB-LAN dongle looks large and ungainly.

I agree about tthe docking station, but you can buy a dongle for 5
pounds (USB-c to RJ45) which works well. Much smaller than the Dell
multipurpose dongle, which I had trouble getting to work with Linux.

> Specialist one is good value, except I'm not sure about the integral
> battery. A dual setup is another £50. When the integral battery fails,
> do you have to send the whole thing back home to get it replaced? now
> we are over £800.

Well, either you have to be willing to go into the innards and replace
the battery after 4 or 5 years, or take it to a shop to do so.
Almost all laptops now have an internal battery. Saves money, weight,
for the manufacturer. Usually they are fairly easily replaceable, but
it depends on the manufacturer.

[Martin Gregorie]

On Wed, 07 Apr 2021 15:58:00 +0100, Davey wrote:

> My last two laptops have kept their original batteries, but they don't
> hold a charge; unplug the power feed, and they die.
>

Interesting: I just pulled leads on my two laptops for 5 mins or so. The
15 year old Lenovo r61i showed 95% on disconnect and after 5 mins said
"recharging from 93%" when I reconnected external power, so could
probably do with a new battery if I was planning to cart it about much.

The T440 (which I've had for 4 years) and was disconnected a little
longer, said it was still fully charged on reconnection.

Unsupported guess: how long your batteries remain usable depends on who
made them, and some laptop makers get their batteries from cheap
suppliers: who would have known!

[Davey]

The vast majority of the time, my PC acts just like a desktop, and is
connected via the modem/router to my Humax, my printer, and the CCTV
PC. I use wireless as little as possible, preferring a cable
connection. When I travel, it is usually to one specific place near
London, and then I use a wireless dongle. Since the pandemic started,
that has not happened.
The location where my PC sits does not provide room for the Dell
dongle. Yes, I could re-arrange my study, but I don't want to, it works
for me fine the way it is.
So, just going to prove that it is dangerous to generalise, what may
be sensible advice for the majority of folks is not necessarily
relevant to all.

--
Davey.

[William Unruh]

On 2021-04-07, Davey <da...@example.invalid> wrote:
> On Wed, 7 Apr 2021 15:22:25 -0000 (UTC)
> William Unruh <un...@invalid.ca> wrote:
>
>> On 2021-04-07, Davey <da...@example.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> ....
>> >>
>> >
>> > I had narrowed my search down to:
>> >
>> > HP 255 G7, from CPC, for £660, but made in China.
>> > Dell New Inspiron 15 5000, for £711, made in USA.
>> > PC Specialist Initia 15.6", for £764, made in UK?.
>> >
>> > Then I saw that the Dell, the favourite of the three, does not have
>> > an integral RJ-45 port, you need a dongle, which rather ruins the
>> > point of having a laptop.
>>
>> Well, no. You need a dongle anyway for an RF45 port-- it is called a
>> Cat 5/6 ethernet cable. IF you are going to use a wired connection
>> you had better carry a cable with you, or you are going to discover
>> that many places (hotels, etc) that have ethernet ports as well as
>> wireless, do NOT have cables for you (they tend to walk away with the
>> guests). So it is not clear to me why you would regard this as a
>> severe impediment.
>>
>>
>
> The vast majority of the time, my PC acts just like a desktop, and is
> connected via the modem/router to my Humax, my printer, and the CCTV

Uh, but them why the complaint about a dongle?

> PC. I use wireless as little as possible, preferring a cable
> connection. When I travel, it is usually to one specific place near
> London, and then I use a wireless dongle. Since the pandemic started,
> that has not happened.
> The location where my PC sits does not provide room for the Dell
> dongle. Yes, I could re-arrange my study, but I don't want to, it works
> for me fine the way it is.

I find that hard to believe. The dongle is small ( and other dongles are
even smaller)

[#Paul]

Davey <da...@example.invalid> wrote:
> HP 255 G7, from CPC, for ?660, but made in China.

My work laptop is an HP probook 430 G7 which has some sort
of combined keyboard/touchpad hardware, so that even new
kernels cannot find/use the touchpad (I haven't re-checked
that recently though). You might wish to check against that
possibility for the 255 G7 you are thinking about.

> PC Specialist Initia 15.6", for ?764, made in UK?.

As a tangent, I know someone with one of the PC Specialist's
Lafite Pro models, which is (afaik) a rebadged Clevo.

#Paul

[Davey]

On Wed, 07 Apr 2021 22:22:43 +0100
news20k...@threeformcow.myzen.co.uk (#Paul) wrote:

> > PC Specialist Initia 15.6", for ?764, made in UK?.
>
> As a tangent, I know someone with one of the PC Specialist's
> Lafite Pro models, which is (afaik) a rebadged Clevo.
>
> #Paul

What does he/she think of it?

--
Davey.

[AnthonyL]

My laptop has a readily removable battery which is removed nearly all
the time I'm at the desk. It still has reasonable charge despite
being a 10yr old machine.

If I'm doing something critical I'll put the battery in, but then if
it's a major update I'll run an ethernet cable to the router as well.
We only get occasional power glitches though a couple of years ago we
had 11hrs 40min - they pay compensation if over 12hrs. If we'd all
given up a fiver to the workers and told them to take a tea break we'd
have been well off.


--
AnthonyL

Why ever wait to finish a job before starting the next?

[Theo]

Davey <da...@example.invalid> wrote:
> The location where my PC sits does not provide room for the Dell
> dongle. Yes, I could re-arrange my study, but I don't want to, it works
> for me fine the way it is.

I don't know what dongle you're thinking of, but you're going to need a cat5
cable anyway. So just keep something like one of these on the end:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Anker-AK-A7611011-USB-Ethernet-Network-Card-Adaptor/dp/B00PC0P2DI
(USB-C versions also available)
and plug that into your laptop rather than the RJ45.

If the couple of square inches of desk space is a concern, buy one with a
longer USB cable so you can hang it off the desk where the cat5 presumably
already hangs.

Theo

[Davey]

On 08 Apr 2021 16:06:32 +0100 (BST)

That one looks physically more suitable than the one offered by Dell,
but theirs has several other ports available at the same time. Swings
and roundabouts.

Thanks, another path to follow.

--
Davey.

[William Unruh]

As I siad, I found that Dell's did not work on Mageia Linux. Now that
was about 5 or 6 years ago so things may have changed. But you are
constantly changing the goals. First you berated the machine for having
no rj45 port. Now suddenly you want not only that but an usb/video/.....
port as well (the Dell dongle), instead of buying an rj45 dongle, but
also complain that it is too large.

>
> Thanks, another path to follow.

Note that that is similar to ( but more expensive than) the ethernet
dongles I suggested a while ago. Here (Canada) at least I can buy them
(Linke brand) for half that price.

Or
https://www.amazon.co.uk/USB-3-0-Hub-Aluminum-ChromeBook-Black/dp/B0792S3SMB
which gives three usb ports , a gigabit ethernet port to usb-3 or C
adapter. for 16 pounds.


>

[#Paul]

Davey <da...@example.invalid> wrote:

> On Wed, 07 Apr 2021 22:22:43 +0100 #Paul wrote:
>
>> > PC Specialist Initia 15.6", for ?764, made in UK?.
>>
>> As a tangent, I know someone with one of the PC Specialist's
>> Lafite Pro models, which is (afaik) a rebadged Clevo.
>

> What does he/she think of it?

It's a very nice lightweight machine and the hardware wasn't
too exotic so a newish kernel was fine (it's on debian stretch
so needed an upgrade, but that's not too hard to do)

I'd very much like to recommend it, but have to mention
this...

It does have one fault, which is that the connector from the
battery to the mainboard slowly walks loose and needs re-seating;
I'm not clear why (thermal cycles during charge/discharge?). This
presented as what looked like a battery failure, and it wasn't
til a replacement battery was eventually sent out that the machine
got opened and the true problem was revealed. It's done it once
more since; I'm assuming it will happen again. I presume that
this is not common, and this particular machine is just unlucky.
with connector tolerances or somesuch.

I guess it could be sent back for repair but that would mean no
laptop for a non-trivial time; and if you do not mind opening the
thing then the fix is simple enough. (The battery is not quite
glued in, iirc, it is mounted on adhesive strips; we never got
as far as testing how easy it was to remove/swap)

#Paul

[Davey]

Thanks, that's very helpful, especially as I am tilting towards the PC
Specialist machine. When I asked them about the Integral battery, they
replied that they have no problem with customers opening up their PCs to
do troubleshooting, change batteries, etc, so presumably in such a case
as you describe, an e-mail to them describing the problem, and a
willingness to fix it, would work ok.

Very good, thanks.

--
Davey.

[Theo]

Davey <da...@example.invalid> wrote:
> That one looks physically more suitable than the one offered by Dell,
> but theirs has several other ports available at the same time. Swings
> and roundabouts.

Another route is a 'docking station' which connects to ethernet, monitor,
charger, audio, storage, keyboard, whatever you want. You mount the docking
station somewhere out of the way (eg on a shelf or behind the monitor) and
plug in a single cable into the laptop.

That keeps all the cable mess off the desk and means the laptop only has a
single wire going to it. If you need to take the laptop away, just unplug
it. When you come back you just need to plug in that single wire.

Docking stations are available in USB and Thunderbolt versions (the latter
more performant if your machine supports Thunderbolt).

Theo

[Davey]

On 09 Apr 2021 12:57:12 +0100 (BST)

Ah, thanks. To me, a docking station was a heavy fixed desktop device
into which one inserted the laptop, not one that could sit remotely. I
had one at work some years ago. Things move on.

I am pretty much set on the PC Specialist machine.

--
Davey.