68K Linux on a BBC Micro
Paul Ryan
be possible using one of those 68K CPU add ons.
Paul
Matthew Garrett
wrote:
> I've just had an idea on how to get Linux on a BBC Micro! I think it would
> be possible using one of those 68K CPU add ons.
Did any of them have MMUs?
--
Matthew Garrett | mjg59-uk.co...@srcf.ucam.org
Tony Hoyle
> I've just had an idea on how to get Linux on a BBC Micro! I think it
> would be possible using one of those 68K CPU add ons.
>
It depends on what 68K the addon is... You'll need at least a 68020 AFAIK as
that's the first one with a memory manager. Plus a few MB of memory, of
course.
Tony
John Winters
Paul Ryan <prya...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I've just had an idea on how to get Linux on a BBC Micro! I think it would
>be possible using one of those 68K CPU add ons.
How about one of those original ARM 1 2nd processors?
John
--
The Linux Emporium - the source for Linux in the UK
See http://www.linuxemporium.co.uk/
We had a woodhenge here once but it rotted.
Matthew Garrett
The 68020 only had an external MMU (the 68851). Technically the 68010
would probably do - Sun shipped machines based on it using an external MMU
from some other supplier, and NetBSD runs on them. The 68000 isn't capable
of restoring state fully after a trap.
--
Matthew Garrett | mjg59-uk.co...@srcf.ucam.org
Justin
>
> The 68020 only had an external MMU (the 68851). Technically the 68010
> would probably do - Sun shipped machines based on it using an external MMU
> from some other supplier, and NetBSD runs on them. The 68000 isn't capable
> of restoring state fully after a trap.
>
I really can't fathom how you could possbly pick that up or why (in the
name of sanity) you'd remember it, let alone be able to recall it. Those
BBC Micros are over 20 years old, don't you have any useful things to
keep in that head of yours?!
--
Justin the goldfish, failing to recall anything that happened more
than 2 minutes ago.
Paul Ryan
> >I've just had an idea on how to get Linux on a BBC Micro! I think it
would
> >be possible using one of those 68K CPU add ons.
>
> How about one of those original ARM 1 2nd processors?
There's an idea!
Paul
Rob Summers
> Those BBC Micros are over 20 years old, don't you have any useful things to
> keep in that head of yours?!
There's a brand new (floppy disk sized) model out:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/rpsprowson/bbc/minib.htm
Cheers
Rob
Paul Ryan
>
> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/rpsprowson/bbc/minib.htm
That's cool.
Paul
Peter Christy
> I really can't fathom how you could possbly pick that up or why (in the
> name of sanity) you'd remember it, let alone be able to recall it. Those
> BBC Micros are over 20 years old, don't you have any useful things to
> keep in that head of yours?!
Don't knock it! I had some specialist software for the BBC that I *still* can't
find a decent PC replacement for 20 years on! Under either Linux OR windoze!
As they said of the old DC-3 airliner - The only replacement for a DC-3 is
another DC-3...........!
--
Pete
chr...@attglobal.net
Paul Ryan
can't
> find a decent PC replacement for 20 years on! Under either Linux OR
windoze!
>
> As they said of the old DC-3 airliner - The only replacement for a DC-3 is
> another DC-3...........!
Indeed the BBC Micro was, and still is, a superb computer.
Paul
Tony Houghton
Peter Christy <chr...@attglobal.net> wrote:
> Don't knock it! I had some specialist software for the BBC that I
> *still* can't find a decent PC replacement for 20 years on! Under
> either Linux OR windoze!
How about an emulator?
--
TH * http://www.realh.co.uk
Peter Christy
>
> How about an emulator?
>
Do you know of a good one? I've seen plenty of emulators for the Spectrums,
Vics, etc, but not one for the Beeb.
As I understand it, the ROM is still under copyright protection, and the rights
holders won't release it into the public domain.......
Of course, I've still got my old Beeb with the rom in it, but I'm not sure how
I'd get it across into the PC - not even the disk formats are compatible.....!
--
Pete
chr...@attglobal.net
Paul Ryan
>
> >
> > How about an emulator?
> >
>
> Do you know of a good one? I've seen plenty of emulators for the
Spectrums,
> Vics, etc, but not one for the Beeb.
>
> As I understand it, the ROM is still under copyright protection, and the
rights
> holders won't release it into the public domain.......
BeebEm. ROMS are easy to get off the net too.
Paul
Tony Houghton
Peter Christy <chr...@attglobal.net> wrote:
> Tony Houghton wrote:
>
>>
>> How about an emulator?
>>
>
> Do you know of a good one? I've seen plenty of emulators for the Spectrums,
> Vics, etc, but not one for the Beeb.
The best is probably 6502em, but it's commercial, and you'd need an
Archimedes emulator to run it on!
Roger Leigh
> Of course, I've still got my old Beeb with the rom in it, but I'm
> not sure how I'd get it across into the PC - not even the disk
> formats are compatible.....!
If you do some playing with setfdprm(1) after reading fdutils.info,
you can probably read the disk in a modern 5.25" PC floppy drive (with
dd or the like).
The disk is probably (I'm assuming here) in a CP/M format, or some
other ancient format. I don't know how you'll read that, but the BBC
firmware should include the code for this, if you can call it. It's
probably simple enough that you could find the files with a hex
editor. My ZX Spectrum +2A had a complete disk operating system (+3
DOS) in its firmware, which was basically the low-level CP/M hardware
control and filesystem code--which you could use with a bit of machine
code to jump to it.
--
Roger Leigh
Printing on GNU/Linux? http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net/
GPG Public Key: 0x25BFB848 available on public keyservers
Ian
> In article <nV0_9.1789$T03.6...@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net>, Paul Ryan
> wrote:
>
>> I've just had an idea on how to get Linux on a BBC Micro! I think it would
>> be possible using one of those 68K CPU add ons.
>
> Did any of them have MMUs?
Dunno, but there was also a 8086 co processor with 512k of RAM for running
DOS apps so that could probably be adapted but then its not really a BBC
micro running the OS, its a PC with a BBC handling some I/O stuff. Make
your BBC into a thin client terminal as there was certainly support for
this with BSD on the R140s back in about 1989. I had one running X-desktop
in 4 Meg of RAM from a 56 meg hard drive and it ran like a drain :-). I
think Felsted school in Essex use BBCs still as text terminals for E-mail
to their BSD network but I might be mistaken about that.
--
IanL
ZMS Ltd - Education Management Consultants
WWW.thelearningmachine.co.uk
WWW.theINGOTs.org
Paul Ryan
> DOS apps so that could probably be adapted but then its not really a BBC
> micro running the OS, its a PC with a BBC handling some I/O stuff. Make
> your BBC into a thin client terminal as there was certainly support for
> this with BSD on the R140s back in about 1989. I had one running X-desktop
> in 4 Meg of RAM from a 56 meg hard drive and it ran like a drain :-). I
> think Felsted school in Essex use BBCs still as text terminals for E-mail
> to their BSD network but I might be mistaken about that.
I forgot about the posibility of using the an 8086 co pro. The one for the
Master would be great. Should be able to get a version of Elks on that.
I'm also thinking of using a Micro or Master as a terminal.
Paul
Paul Ryan
> you can probably read the disk in a modern 5.25" PC floppy drive (with
> dd or the like).
>
> The disk is probably (I'm assuming here) in a CP/M format, or some
> other ancient format. I don't know how you'll read that, but the BBC
> firmware should include the code for this, if you can call it. It's
> probably simple enough that you could find the files with a hex
> editor. My ZX Spectrum +2A had a complete disk operating system (+3
> DOS) in its firmware, which was basically the low-level CP/M hardware
> control and filesystem code--which you could use with a bit of machine
> code to jump to it.
BBC's didn't use CP/M unless they had the Z80 Second Processor.
Paul
Nick Battle
> Do you know of a good one? I've seen plenty of emulators for the Spectrums,
> Vics, etc, but not one for the Beeb.
Try something from http://bbc.nvg.org/emulators.php3
I've used PCBBC (Windoze), but there's a long list there and several
claim to be Unix/X emulators.
--
Cheers,
-nick
John Kenyon
"Paul Ryan" <prya...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:WtZ_9.114$RM1.1...@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net...
A ROM copy of Commstar should turn your Beeb into a serial terminal, however
9600baud would be as far as you could push it reliably.
As far as networking is concerned, you might have fun designing an Ethernet
interface
to plug into the Master's Econet module sockets, plus the joys of devising a
TCP/IP
stack for the 6502 processor and the client software to do something useful
:)
/john
John Kenyon
"Ian" <ian.l...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.02.01....@ntlworld.com...
> On Thu, 30 Jan 2003 08:11:11 +0000, Matthew Garrett wrote:
>
> > In article <nV0_9.1789$T03.6...@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net>, Paul
Ryan
> > wrote:
> >
> >> I've just had an idea on how to get Linux on a BBC Micro! I think it
would
> >> be possible using one of those 68K CPU add ons.
> >
> > Did any of them have MMUs?
>
> Dunno, but there was also a 8086 co processor with 512k of RAM for running
> DOS apps so that could probably be adapted but then its not really a BBC
> micro running the OS, its a PC with a BBC handling some I/O stuff. Make
> your BBC into a thin client terminal as there was certainly support for
> this with BSD on the R140s back in about 1989. I had one running X-desktop
> in 4 Meg of RAM from a 56 meg hard drive and it ran like a drain :-). I
> think Felsted school in Essex use BBCs still as text terminals for E-mail
> to their BSD network but I might be mistaken about that.
Their i386 BSD machine has an Econet card fitted with some daemon which
allows telnet connections from BBC micros.
A TCP/IP-over-Econet stack does exist for the BBC, however it isn't
compatible
with the most recent DCI4 stack used by Archimedes machines, not to mention
(not surprisingly) a complete dearth of suitable software, not even a telnet
client!
The closest I've got to a telnet session on a Beeb was to run !beebframe on
my
A3020 which gives a RiscOS session on the BBC, and then run a command line
telnet client on the A3020 to access my Linux server.
My attempts to do anything Linux or BSD like on my 4Mb A3020 seem to be
doomed - work on ArmLinux & NetBSD/acorn26 for the A30x0 series
seems to have stopped a couple of years back.
BTW the Master 512 co-processor had an 80186 processor, not an 8086,
and it ran a patched version of CP/M-86 IIRC.
/john
John Winters
John Kenyon <etl...@gmx.net> wrote:
[snip]
>A ROM copy of Commstar should turn your Beeb into a serial terminal, however
>9600baud would be as far as you could push it reliably.
Somewhere lurking on a shelf I have two copies of a software package which
was designed to allow BBC micros act as terminals to an R140 (Acorn
UNIX box) over Econet. I never got around to using them because I couldn't
source the Econet cabling and clock box at a price I could justify.
Presumably one could still do something like this with an R140 acting as
an Econet/Ethernet gateway.
Robert Pearce
<jus...@masonsmusic.co.uk> writes
>On 30 Jan 2003 09:04:50 GMT, Matthew Garrett
><mjg59-uk.co...@srcf.ucam.org> wrote:
>>
>> The 68020 only had an external MMU (the 68851). Technically the 68010
>> would probably do - Sun shipped machines based on it using an external MMU
>> from some other supplier, and NetBSD runs on them. The 68000 isn't capable
>> of restoring state fully after a trap.
>>
>justin@spirit:~# nice -n +20 /usr/local/bin/mind --boggle &
>
>I really can't fathom how you could possbly pick that up or why (in the
>name of sanity) you'd remember it, let alone be able to recall it. Those
>BBC Micros are over 20 years old, don't you have any useful things to
>keep in that head of yours?!
>
until about three years ago I was working on systems using the 68396
embedded micro, which has a CPU32 core. This is somewhere in between a
68000 and a 68010 but with a few added bits.
--
Rob Pearce
The "from" must be wrong, nothing that helpful ever comes from the TAN team!
Robert Pearce
<${roger}@invalid.whinlatter.uklinux.net.invalid> writes
>
>The disk is probably (I'm assuming here) in a CP/M format, or some
>other ancient format.
ISTR the BBC disk format is far cruder than CP/M. At least CP/M made
some effort to cope with file fragmentation due to having two files open
for writing at once. The BBC format relies on all files being entirely
contiguous on the disk.
Paul Ryan
however
> 9600baud would be as far as you could push it reliably.
I've got Commstar and Commstar+. What terminals do they emulate? No disks
came with mine, and it seems the terminal types were loaded in, but it's
been a long time since I ran them.
Paul
John Winters
Robert Pearce <news_...@bdt-home.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <87smv84...@whinlatter.uklinux.net>, Roger Leigh
><${roger}@invalid.whinlatter.uklinux.net.invalid> writes
>>
>>The disk is probably (I'm assuming here) in a CP/M format, or some
>>other ancient format.
>
>ISTR the BBC disk format is far cruder than CP/M. At least CP/M made
>some effort to cope with file fragmentation due to having two files open
>for writing at once. The BBC format relies on all files being entirely
>contiguous on the disk.
The later ADFS file system addressed that problem but yes, with DFS
it was a major limitation.
John Kenyon
I've just checked out my copy of the Commstar (without the +) manual.
Like you said, it looks like the emulations had to be loaded in from
disc/tape etc.
Looks like its effectively a "glass teletype" emulation.
/john