New base unit on a budget?
Janner
to £500 :(
Is this enough to build something that will be worth the investment
and will last me for another 3-4 years?
Ideally, I would like the system to be based around an Asus P5B-E,
Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 and 1GB of Corsair DDR2, but that all eats up a
large amount of my budget.
The system won't be used for gaming, so graphics isn't a major issue,
although I would want to be able to run Vista (which means support for
DirectX9).
I don't need a monitor, so my budget is just for the base unit.
However, from what is left after the MB, CPU and memory, I still need
a case, PSU, hard drive (320GB would be good), a graphics card, DVD
writer, and ... ?
Can I get anywhere close to this for £500, or should I just hope that
Santa is good to me this year ;-)
Janner
Having just reread my post, I do make myself look horribly like one of
those people who has done nothing for themselves, and is expecting
somebody else to do all the hard work of searching for answers ...
doh!
So, yes, I have done lots of reading ... honest!
I do have a fair awareness of prices, but where I always fall down is
with the case, PSU, cooling and graphics. I always end up feeling
rather dizzy from the amount of choice, variations and combinations.
Certainly not my areas of expertise, so I would be very grateful for
specific advice on what would be the best options ... on a budget.
Thanks :-)
Jeff Gaines
Janner wrote:
>I don't need a monitor, so my budget is just for the base unit.
>However, from what is left after the MB, CPU and memory, I still need
>a case, PSU, hard drive (320GB would be good), a graphics card, DVD
>writer, and ... ?
I think a Core 2 Duo and a P5B would make a very good base that will last
a few years - is there any way at all of stretching to the E6600 with the
bigger cache?
I have just put a system together for my daughter and I used a Thermaltake
Mambo (from Novatech) which is a nice looking case and it went together OK.
You could try uk.adverts.computer for a graphics card and the other
peripherals, don't whatever you do get a cheap PSU, there have been
reports in here of them damaging boards.
--
Jeff Gaines Damerham Hampshire UK
There are 10 types of people in the world,
those who do binary and those who don't.
Janner
<jgaines...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>I think a Core 2 Duo and a P5B would make a very good base that will last
>a few years - is there any way at all of stretching to the E6600 with the
>bigger cache?
I think that might be pushing things a little too far, and I am not
sure that the cost to benefit ratio is justifiable for my needs.
At the moment, my shopping basket looks like this:
Asus P5B Skt 775 Intel P965 Core2 Extreme / Core2 Duo 1066FSB PCI-E
x16 SATA RAID Giga LAN 8 ch. Audio ATX Motherboard - £84.54 Inc VAT
Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 2.13GHz 1066FSB LGA775 2MB cache Retail inc.Fan
(3yr Manufacturers Warranty) - £ 139.81 Inc VAT
Corsair® Value Select 1Gb DDR2 PC4200 Kit (2 x 512MB) (VS1GBKIT533D2)
- £ 71.09 Inc VAT
250GB Samsung SP2504C SATA 7200rpm 8MB cache HDD oem - £47.24 Inc VAT
Pioneer DVR-111D 16X DVD +/-R/RW 8x +/- DL IDE oem (Drive only) - £
23.85 Inc VAT
Total: £366.53
That leaves me with just £130 for case, PSU, cooling, graphics card,
an internal card reader and delivery (and whatever else I have
forgotten?). Not too much really, and I don't want to get it wrong
with any of those items.
Thanks for the pointer on the case, I'll check that one out.
Peter Coulson
Janner <Janner>
on Mon, 11 Dec 2006 03:25:56 -0600 Spake thus:
>SNIP
> Total: £366.53
> That leaves me with just £130 for case, PSU, cooling, graphics card,
> an internal card reader and delivery (and whatever else I have
> forgotten?). Not too much really, and I don't want to get it wrong
> with any of those items.
This is of great interest to me also, as I might lose this PC in a
couple of months and will build a new one.
This one is nearly 3 years old and is working well (just checked the HDD
(Maxtor 80G) and no faults).
I'm also interested in Core 2 Duo and have done quite a bit of research
on MoBos.
What does the team reckon to be the best manufacturer of MoBos? Mine's
an Asus, but Gigabyte and MSI look OK. BTW, saw some where that Intel's
boards and nVidia chipsets don't get on too well.
Case and PSU: you need reasonable cooling and an ATX2.* PSU; quiet as
well. Looking on OCUK and considering Antec cases (seem to be good
quality and value), the Antec SLK1650B Black Quiet Mini Tower Case -
350W SmartPower PSU should be OK for your config., unless the graphics
card is a big 'un!
Now, yes, the graphics card. This has to be the biggest question
(there's good sound on a lot of boards, so no need for a separate card).
Assuming that you don't want to play the latest games :-( then good 2D,
some 3D, DVI connector and NO FAN!! It's actually getting difficult to
find a competent card that's not too gimmicky. If you're not running
apps that need a lot of memory, you can afford to share some of the RAM,
so that reduces the cost of the card.
Where we need expert help is with the complexity: different makers,
chipsets, what's enabled etc. (some cards seem to have the same model
nos. but very different abilities). In some cases an integrated MoBo
seems almost as good.
Using the Intel CPU is expensive for the chip and the MoBo; looks as if
AMD will have a 'proper' dual processor soon.
Peter.
Daniel James
> I'm looking to replace my aging Shuttle system, but funds are limited
> to £500 :(
>
> Is this enough to build something that will be worth the investment
> and will last me for another 3-4 years?
It should be, depending on your requirements.
> Ideally, I would like the system to be based around an Asus P5B-E,
> Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 and 1GB of Corsair DDR2, but that all eats up a
> large amount of my budget.
The P5B is a good series of boards. If you can make do with the micro-ATX
format you could get the P5B-VM which has on-board VGA and save a few
pounds (you did say you weren't a gamer). The "sweet spots" in the Core 2
range seem to be the E6300 (slowest Allendale) and E6600 (slowest Conroe),
you pay disproportionately more for a modest increase in performance with
the other models. However, the difference between the 6300 and 6400 isn't
much (about 20% more money for 15% more speed, at typical prices).
> The system won't be used for gaming, so graphics isn't a major issue,
> although I would want to be able to run Vista (which means support for
> DirectX9).
Just about everything supports DX9 nowadays ... and not much yet supports
DX10. I've run Vista RC2 on a 3GHz P4 in an Asus P4P800-VM ("integrated
intel extreme graphics") and Vista is a bit sniffy about the graphics
performance -- giving it a "performance index" (or whatever they call it)
of 1 out of 5 -- but everything works as far as I can see. It is, however,
both faster and IMHO better looking if you turn the eye-candy OFF.
> I don't need a monitor, so my budget is just for the base unit.
> However, from what is left after the MB, CPU and memory, I still need
> a case, PSU, hard drive (320GB would be good), a graphics card, DVD
> writer, and ... ?
.. enough left over for a pint?
You don't have to spend a fortune on a case (my P4 is in a £9.99 case from
eBuyer) but you *do* need a decent PSU -- Go for quality rather than
insanely high power rating -- you may expect to spend around £40. If you
get the -VM mobo you don't need a graphics card. A 320GB HDD won't cost you
much more than about £65. A DVD-writer £25 (unless you go for Blu-Ray which
will blow your whole budget) ...
> Can I get anywhere close to this for £500, or should I just hope that
> Santa is good to me this year ;-)
I think it's doable ... but prices may fall after xmas ... or not.
Dual-core CPU prices will certainly fall when quad-core CPUs start to
appear at prices normal mortals can afford (but who knows when that will
be). I'm tempted to suggest that your best bet might be to get an E6300
system for now, but upgrade the CPU to a Conroe (or quad core) when prices
drop ... but that would go against my own rule of NEVER buying for
upgradability -- if you can afford it, buy the system you want NOW (or
after xmas) rather than buying a half-way-house and expecting to upgrade.
Experience has shown me that by the time I feel I'm ready upgrade I can't
because the thing I want to upgrade to isn't compatible with the rest of my
system.
Cheers,
Daniel.
Janner
<waste...@nospam.aaisp.org> wrote:
>The P5B is a good series of boards. If you can make do with the micro-ATX
>format you could get the P5B-VM which has on-board VGA and save a few
>pounds (you did say you weren't a gamer). The "sweet spots" in the Core 2
>range seem to be the E6300 (slowest Allendale) and E6600 (slowest Conroe),
>you pay disproportionately more for a modest increase in performance with
>the other models. However, the difference between the 6300 and 6400 isn't
>much (about 20% more money for 15% more speed, at typical prices).
I must admit that I hadn't considered the onboard graphics option. So,
going with the P5B-VM would save a few pounds on a dedicated graphics
card, and that saving could possibly be put towards the E6600. But,
would that need to be matched with faster (hence spendier) memory?
For those who throw their hands up in despair at the thought of
onboard graphics, my needs in that area are so low that my Shuttle's
onboard graphics has been more than adequate for the past 3-4 years.
So, P5B-VM + E6600 ... do others think this is a good pairing?
Jeff Gaines
Janner wrote:
>I must admit that I hadn't considered the onboard graphics option. So,
>going with the P5B-VM would save a few pounds on a dedicated graphics
>card, and that saving could possibly be put towards the E6600. But,
>would that need to be matched with faster (hence spendier) memory?
Have a look at www.crucial.com/uk for memory, I'm not convinced that
anything except benchmarks can tell the difference between same speed
rated memory.
>For those who throw their hands up in despair at the thought of
>onboard graphics, my needs in that area are so low that my Shuttle's
>onboard graphics has been more than adequate for the past 3-4 years.
You can always add a graphics card later if you get hooked on games.
>So, P5B-VM + E6600 ... do others think this is a good pairing?
I think so, I've just built one around the Intel BadAxe board and an E6600
and it's running the Vista RTM nicely. The Intel board is 975X and the
Asus 965X but I suspect I would have been just as happy with 965X.
davie
<Janner> wrote in message news:ni0qn2durdp49gtqk...@4ax.com...
You could try this http://www.komplett.co.uk/k/ci.asp?sku=10093
if you remove the O/S it comes in at under £500
Janner
>You could try this http://www.komplett.co.uk/k/ci.asp?sku=10093
>
>if you remove the O/S it comes in at under £500
I have to admit, that looks a very tempting alternative to building my
own (I guess I must be getting older, as the 'pleasures' of poking
around inside a PC case seem to have faded over the past few years ...
;-) ).
There seems to be quite a high degree of customisaton available on
that system. so I shall see if it still looks as tempting when I have
'tweaked' with the options.
Anybody have an opinion on their default MB choice - MSI P965 NEO-F,
P965, Socket-775, ATX, SATAII, GbLAN, DDR2, PCI-Ex16 - is this a
stable and reliable board?
Synapse Syndrome
news:xn0euu9d4...@news.individual.net...
> On 11/12/2006 in message <n9gqn2h50n2afa115...@4ax.com>
> Janner wrote:
>
>>I must admit that I hadn't considered the onboard graphics option. So,
>>going with the P5B-VM would save a few pounds on a dedicated graphics
>>card, and that saving could possibly be put towards the E6600. But,
>>would that need to be matched with faster (hence spendier) memory?
>
> Have a look at www.crucial.com/uk for memory, I'm not convinced that
> anything except benchmarks can tell the difference between same speed
> rated memory.
>
>>For those who throw their hands up in despair at the thought of
>>onboard graphics, my needs in that area are so low that my Shuttle's
>>onboard graphics has been more than adequate for the past 3-4 years.
>
> You can always add a graphics card later if you get hooked on games.
>
>>So, P5B-VM + E6600 ... do others think this is a good pairing?
>
> I think so, I've just built one around the Intel BadAxe board and an E6600
> and it's running the Vista RTM nicely. The Intel board is 975X and the
> Asus 965X but I suspect I would have been just as happy with 965X.
Hi Jeff. Seen you around the Vista newsgroup.
I have an E6600 and Asus P5W DH Deluxe, which has the 975X northbridge as
well. This is great for overclocking, which i have no interest in. I
actually regret not getting a P5B Deluxe instead, as it has the ICH8
southbridge with loads more SATA ports at the expense of ATA (there is
always another controller included for ATA anyway). The ICH7 on my board
has only 4 SATA ports, one of which is used for the hardware Sil RAID
controller. This makes the P5W DH Deluxe a weird mess of a board.
PS. The 2MB cache Core 2 Duos aren't Allendales after all
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Core_2#Allendale
ss.
Jeff Gaines
wrote:
>I have an E6600 and Asus P5W DH Deluxe, which has the 975X northbridge as
>well. This is great for overclocking, which i have no interest in. I
>actually regret not getting a P5B Deluxe instead, as it has the ICH8
>southbridge with loads more SATA ports at the expense of ATA (there is
>always another controller included for ATA anyway). The ICH7 on my board
>has only 4 SATA ports, one of which is used for the hardware Sil RAID
>controller. This makes the P5W DH Deluxe a weird mess of a board.
Hi SS :-)
I had problems with streaming music from a board with the nForce4 chipset
(a DFI board) so I went for something absolutely 'bog standard' - the
Intel board. Now the media manager won't run under Vista!!! It's early
days though, it'll all catch up in the end I guess.
The BadAxe has 4 unusable SATA ports - they only support s/w RAID and not
individual drives, so waste of space.
Daniel James
> I have an E6600 and Asus P5W DH Deluxe, which has the 975X northbridge as
> well. This is great for overclocking, which i have no interest in. I
Personally, I'd probably go for the P5W for its ability to use ECC RAM.
I know the chance of getting a RAM corruption from a stray cosmic ray is
astronomically small -- no it's more than that, I only wrote that for the
pun -- but it's better to be safe than sorry. Data loss through RAM
corruption is *avoidable* data loss, so why risk it?
.. and I understand there's a lot of stray Polonium around these days ...
> ... makes the P5W DH Deluxe a weird mess of a board.
Yeah, that it is ... but I'd value the extra IDE connections. Lots of SATA
is good but I don't think the world is yet ready -- or, at least, *I'm* not
ready -- for a board that doesn't have at least four IDE connections.
Cheers,
Daniel.
John Jordan
>
> I know the chance of getting a RAM corruption from a stray cosmic ray is
> astronomically small -- no it's more than that, I only wrote that for the
> pun -- but it's better to be safe than sorry. Data loss through RAM
> corruption is *avoidable* data loss, so why risk it?
>
Alpha radiation won't penetrate a DRAM package :-)
--
John Jordan
johannes
Daniel James wrote:
>
> In article news:<L-OdncyY_9r...@bt.com>, Synapse Syndrome wrote:
> > I have an E6600 and Asus P5W DH Deluxe, which has the 975X northbridge as
> > well. This is great for overclocking, which i have no interest in. I
> > actually regret not getting a P5B Deluxe instead, ...
>
> Personally, I'd probably go for the P5W for its ability to use ECC RAM.
>
> I know the chance of getting a RAM corruption from a stray cosmic ray is
> astronomically small -- no it's more than that, I only wrote that for the
> pun -- but it's better to be safe than sorry. Data loss through RAM
> corruption is *avoidable* data loss, so why risk it?
Not so astronomically small. PC Guru Scott Mueller is concerned about it
and has a nice article in his famous book series. The impact of cosmic
rays on memory has been investigated by IBM researchers, and it is not
legible, well worth having ECC for anything mission critical. Beware
that not all motherboards recognises ECC memory as ECC.