Those poor Firemen!
Andra T
Today's economy puts the average house price at over £100,000. 3.5x 21000
doesn't get you anywhere near that. Come to think of it neither does a Amb
Service workers wage.
Don't you think you are worth more team. Train Driver £28000, cop-£27500.
See your union whoever they are.
Wouldn't I be right in saying that you knocked back your first pay offer
this year too.
Andrew T
"anon" <an...@anon.com> wrote in message
news:prj3oucr53e5cr655...@4ax.com...
> Can we show our support for those poor firemen please. We know they
> have it rough, so lets hope they get that 40% rise.
>
> ;-)
>
>
> Colin
SA
comfy warm beds when they get a shout...
BOLLOCKS.... they don't deserve any more than anybody else..
My heart bleeds for them..............
"Andra T" <andrew.t...@spamntlwo.rld.com> wrote in message
news:TXTc9.17839$5g6.3...@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net...
Dave Blowers
I feel that the firemen are making a good point by striking. Why aren't we
doing the same, though? It's a bloody disgrace that we are being less than
the bloke who fixed my water tank the other week? No offence, but aren't we
worth more than that? Why doesn't the union get off its arse and do
something. The one thing that this strike threat has done is brought to the
public attention that public sector workers don't want poxy pay, poxy
working conditions and poxy career prospects. Good luck, firemen! I'll be
supporting you.
--
Dave
To email me, remove the spamtrap
"SA" <sl> wrote in message
news:3d74dfdd$0$1291$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com...
Tim Webber
> I feel that the firemen are making a good point by striking. Why aren't we
> doing the same, though? It's a bloody disgrace that we are being less than
> the bloke who fixed my water tank the other week? No offence, but aren't
we
> worth more than that? Why doesn't the union get off its arse and do
> something. The one thing that this strike threat has done is brought to
the
> public attention that public sector workers don't want poxy pay, poxy
> working conditions and poxy career prospects. Good luck, firemen! I'll be
> supporting you.
Perhaps it would be better to try and cut the wages of the plumber?
Yes fire/ambulance/doctors are more socially deserving than plumbers (or
lawyers) but if every deserving case had a huge pay rise then things get
silly.
"why does the bloke who drives the fire engine get more than a teacher? =>
give the teachers a pay rise, but now they get paid more than the people who
fix the computerised XRAY/CT scanners (who also 'help save lives') => give
the technicians a pay rise, but now they get paid more than the people
who... etc etc etc.
Darren
"Dave Blowers" <david.blo...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:nT9d9.22727$5g6.5...@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net...
> Cynical though your point is, it is nevertheless well made.
>
> I feel that the firemen are making a good point by striking. Why aren't we
> doing the same, though? It's a bloody disgrace that we are being less than
> the bloke who fixed my water tank the other week? No offence, but aren't
we
> worth more than that? Why doesn't the union get off its arse and do
> something. The one thing that this strike threat has done is brought to
the
> public attention that public sector workers don't want poxy pay, poxy
> working conditions and poxy career prospects. Good luck, firemen! I'll be
> supporting you.
We don't go on strike because the vast majority of ambulance staff
believe that it is morally wrong to withdraw an emergency service,
one that caters for the most vulnerable members of society, from
the public in an attempt to gain more money for themselves. That
fire-fighters are willing to do so is disappointing, but it is their choice.
Me, I manage and until society changes it's value perspectives I'll
keep going out to wipe Mrs.Jones bum.
DFF
Dave Oliver
John Edwards
who will be next?.....the ambulance staffs?.......there is only so many
slices the cake can be cut into, and although a good case could be made for
many sections of the health service and other public services for a better
deal, who is going to pay for it?
My own believe is that a paramedic is worth at least as much in salary as a
leading fireman, and that then goes down the line to techs, and not
forgetting control staff (not your favourite subject i guess) and PTS staff.
But once you start increasing these guys levels of pay, then officers would
want a greater increase to maintain differentials, and so onward we go.
As i say, this could get very silly.
"Tim Webber" <t...@ccls.illegaldomain.co.uk.eu> wrote in message
news:Asad9.9687$4N6.74...@news-text.cableinet.net...
Houdi Elbow
that department then we have no hope of getting a decent wage.
The Ambulance Service NOT being an Emergency service is the biggest insult
we have had. According to the way society uses us as a crutch and pick them
up when they've fallen, we certainly are more than a utility !!!!!!!
I support the Firemen as their cause highlights how crazy society has
become - recently there was a job in our local paper . It was an Ethnic
minority support worker to help ethnic minorities to stop smoking . THIS IS
NOT A WIND UP EITHER. This position's salary was starting at £23,000 !! i'm
sorry but going on the wage, this indicates it's considered more important
than an Ambulance wage.
The emergency services are taken for granted as the population know all they
have to do is dial 999 and someone will come running to them no matter how
trivial the problem.
"Dave Oliver" <swind...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:3d75d1c3$0$8508$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com...
Blippie
>believe that it is morally wrong to withdraw an emergency service,
You could look at the bottom line like this: If FF strike for a day, cats
get left up trees and cars dumped by joyriders burn out in fields. Perhaps,
someone will suffer, may be someone will die.
If A&E crews strike for a day people *will* suffer and some people *will*
die.
The Ambulance Services have a bigger impact on people's lives than, by and
large, the Fire Brigade.
Cheers
Blippie
--
Visit the alt.aviation.safety FAQ online at www.blippie.org.uk
James Grove
david.blo...@ntlworld.com says...
> Cynical though your point is, it is nevertheless well made.
>
> I feel that the firemen are making a good point by striking. Why aren't we
> doing the same, though? It's a bloody disgrace that we are being less than
> the bloke who fixed my water tank the other week? No offence, but aren't we
> worth more than that? Why doesn't the union get off its arse and do
> something. The one thing that this strike threat has done is brought to the
> public attention that public sector workers don't want poxy pay, poxy
> working conditions and poxy career prospects. Good luck, firemen! I'll be
> supporting you.
Hi Dave,
If you are a Paramedic or EMT i will support any claim you
make for better pay, i think your pay is a disgrace.
--
James Grove
www.planet-images.com
ja...@jamesgrove.co.uk
James Grove
says...
> Absolutely....as soon as the Government give us the respect we deserve in
> that department then we have no hope of getting a decent wage.
>
> The Ambulance Service NOT being an Emergency service is the biggest insult
> we have had. According to the way society uses us as a crutch and pick them
> up when they've fallen, we certainly are more than a utility !!!!!!!
>
> I support the Firemen as their cause highlights how crazy society has
> become - recently there was a job in our local paper . It was an Ethnic
> minority support worker to help ethnic minorities to stop smoking . THIS IS
> NOT A WIND UP EITHER. This position's salary was starting at £23,000 !! i'm
> sorry but going on the wage, this indicates it's considered more important
> than an Ambulance wage.
>
> The emergency services are taken for granted as the population know all they
> have to do is dial 999 and someone will come running to them no matter how
> trivial the problem.
Some of the best comments i have ever read on the scale of the pay
issues.
I, as a Firefighter, would gladly support any claim that the
Ambulance crews make for a pay rise.
They play on the fact that it eats our conscience about takking
stike action, the government know it and they use it to there advantage,
the only loosers are you and me, the ground floor workers.
fred
1, we don't attend those calls of old lady with cat in tree.
Joy riders just burn the cars out in open ground?? I wish they did that in
my area, If it is in open ground let it burn out by itself. I will not out
a car fire in open ground, waste my crew's time and for what??
Yes some one will die, be it in a fire or a special service call, remember
that fires are now a small proportion to the special service calls that we
attend.
Where do you get this statement, the amby has a bigger impact on peoples
lives than the fire service.
so the persons house has just burn't down, where do you have a bigger
impact, do you salavage their goods, help in telling them how / what service
to contact, get them advise leafets, only leave when their place is secure!
What about accident prevention, do you actively call on doors giving advice,
house risk assessments, call on schools doing fire awareness. The reason for
the number of fires being reduced is due to
our proactive work.
DO YOU THINK YOU LINE OFF WORK IS PRO or REACTIVE???
Dave Oliver
that. But I work near a fire station and they had all afternoon yesterday to
pose for the tv and newspaper cameras with reference to September 11, they
marked the occasion with the two minute silence, unfortunately we were still
serving the public following 999 calls. We are non stop. We also noted
something that really pissed all of us off yesterday, they [fire brigade]
did FAKE blue light runs for the camera. Just to prove they are busy and
they know how to switch on the blue lights. It really annoyed us cos it
gives the public the vision that the FB actually DESERVE the 40% pay rise.
I deserve you do a good job, but admit that we are busier than you, the
police are busier than you and the AA are busier than you. Do you really
think 40% is WARRANTED? DESERVED? EARNED? Honestly? You sleep at night...
Sleep! We hardly get to see the station, let alone sleep!!! Come to our
station and you won't find one single bed....! We work!!
You think your downtime should be used for training?! Well, when do we get
chance for training?? We get ON THE ROAD, ON THE JOB training with REAL
PEOPLE in REAL SITUATIONS. We don't have enough time to train cos we do the
job 24/7 we are not quiet enough to FORGET OUR SKILLS!!!
Just a pause for thought!!
Dave
EMT
"fred" <fred.th...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:OPLe9.3103$Lp.1...@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net...
Blippie
advice,
>house risk assessments, call on schools doing fire awareness. The reason
for
>the number of fires being reduced is due to
>our proactive work.
Whoa! You have hit the nail on the head with one of the big flaws of the
Ambulance Service.
The Police promote crime prevention.
The FB promote fire awareness.
Because "health" falls into the remit of so many different agencies, the
Ambulance Services isn't, by and large, proactive.
There are small scale first aid promotions, www.999whereareyou.org ,
education aimed at young people, but nothing like the large scale and, by
golly, effective, life-saving work the FB does.
Blippie
>lives than the fire service.
Take my example, and try to follow what I was saying:
The FB and the AS strike for one day.
In just one of the 30-odd Ambulance services:
- 300 999 calls will not be answered.
- 150 patients will not be admitted to hospital for urgent cases.
- 800 patients will not make their routine appointments.
- 200 NHS Direct calls won't be answered.
- 25 out-of-hours District Nurse requests won't be processed.
- 5 patinets won't be transferred on long distance, inter-hospital
transfers.
That's already 1,475 people directly affected. Now add their relatives and
carers - the people whose lives we also touch whilst dealing with their
loved ones.
(Ambulance staff also assist hospital staff with procedures - such as log
rolls, transfers, monitoring, cannulation, resus, etc. - It's not our job
but we want to help the staff and the patients.)
The Fire Brigade strikes for one day.
- accident prevention
- call on doors giving advice
- house risk assessments
- call on schools doing fire awareness (... those are your examples,
remember ...)
- plus the "front line", reactive stuff - to be fair, unlikely to be more
than 50 jobs a day for an average city.
How many people do you "touch" in those 50 jobs?
Another way of looking at it:
Grab the first person you see.
Have they, their family, or anybody they know been a client of the FB?
Have they, their family, or anybody they know been a client of an Ambulance
Service?
You'll have more answers for the second question.
My point was, in your words "the amby has a bigger impact on peoples lives
than the fire service." I stand by that - and that is why the Ambulace
Services haven't had strike action for nearly 20 years - we wouldn't get
public support, and it would be morally difficult to justify.
I hope you see what I was trying to get across.
James Grove
swind...@dsl.pipex.com says...
> I agree that fire fighting is only a small part of your job now, I accept
> that. But I work near a fire station and they had all afternoon yesterday to
> pose for the tv and newspaper cameras with reference to September 11, they
> marked the occasion with the two minute silence, unfortunately we were still
> serving the public following 999 calls. We are non stop. We also noted
> something that really pissed all of us off yesterday, they [fire brigade]
> did FAKE blue light runs for the camera. Just to prove they are busy and
> they know how to switch on the blue lights. It really annoyed us cos it
> gives the public the vision that the FB actually DESERVE the 40% pay rise.
>
> I deserve you do a good job, but admit that we are busier than you, the
> police are busier than you and the AA are busier than you. Do you really
> think 40% is WARRANTED? DESERVED? EARNED? Honestly? You sleep at night...
> Sleep! We hardly get to see the station, let alone sleep!!! Come to our
> station and you won't find one single bed....! We work!!
>
> You think your downtime should be used for training?! Well, when do we get
> chance for training?? We get ON THE ROAD, ON THE JOB training with REAL
> PEOPLE in REAL SITUATIONS. We don't have enough time to train cos we do the
> job 24/7 we are not quiet enough to FORGET OUR SKILLS!!!
I would have expected a better comment from a fellow 999 worker,
in all the years i have been a FF its only been the Police that have
ever given us grief. No it seems that you are, i hope that doesnt go for
all Paramedics and Ambulance crews.
I really doubt they did it to proove they were busy, what a
pathetic comment to make. We all know that Ambulance crews are streched,
but there are not fires all the time, sorry. Over the years we (FF`s)
have actively reduced the numbers of fires by pusihing legislation
forward and informing the public of how they can be fire safe.
Sleep.Sleep.Sleep thats all i ever hear from the Police, the fact
that they sleep in the cars is beside the point. Take the beds away
then, we`ll stay up all night instead, i have no problem with that.
Instead of just makking brash of the wall comments, try and
undertsand our job, i do not know a great deal about the work of a
Paramedic or EMT, so i cant criticise or praise anyone, becuase i dont
know. So please do some investigation first.
Instead of bickering amoungst each other, why not approach your union to
get better pay, after all you deserve it.
Dave Oliver
> that they sleep in the cars is beside the point. Take the beds away
> then, we`ll stay up all night instead, i have no problem with that.
But the Amb Service doesn't sleep on nights... we are always either on 999,
urgent jobs or pro-active standby.
I was at an incident last week where the chief fire officer on scene told us
that they don't have target times to meet like the Police and Ambulance
Service. You have to remember we have 8 minutes to get a Category A job. 8
minutes! Regardless of where it is! 8 minutes any time of the day or night!
> Instead of just makking brash of the wall comments, try and
> undertsand our job, i do not know a great deal about the work of a
> Paramedic or EMT, so i cant criticise or praise anyone, becuase i dont
> know. So please do some investigation first.
But I work so close to a main town centre fire station, I can see if they
are out or not when I pass their station or when I am on my own station,
they are 95% time on station or out the back of the station cleaning the
appliance. How often would you see all our ambulances on station? Rarely!!
> Instead of bickering amoungst each other, why not approach your union to
> get better pay, after all you deserve it.
But we won't get it! We are part of the NHS and not, like you, the Home
Office. We simply would not even get Trust Board time! So it's not worth the
hassle!
Dave Oliver
In this county we are having a JOINT SERVICES CONTROL & COMMAND CENTRE; yes
the Police, Fire and Ambulance controls all in one building. Great you may
ask! In theory YES! But lets tell you about the Fire Brigade "requests" for
the building....
They wanted EXTRA sound proofing
They wanted a BEDROOM built for their control staff to sleep in at night
They didn't want disturbing by the other agencies
Extra Sound Proofing.... Because they don't want to hear how busy we are?!
BEDROOMS! BEDROOMS! That is just a joke I thought, but no! It's serious! FB
control staff do sleep at night! Amazing but true!
The FB didn't want to join in the joint building cos it would just show to
the other two agencies how quiet their service really is!!
If proof were needed......!!
I am NOT doubting for a single moment that you do a life-saving job when you
get them, it's just you have to admit that you are the QUIETEST service and
it's you wanting a 40% pay rise!! Can you REALLY TRULY HONESTLY justify it?
Rgds,
Dave
Houdi Elbow
considered a qualified frontline crew would get the message across rather
than an a 1st aid trainer ) , those attending were students who needed a
1st aid qualification to pass their college course. What a bunch of lazy,
degenerate , un motivated , ignorant bas*ards !!!!!!
They obviously think yawning loudly with their feet on the table reading a
paper mid CPR lesson was funny , ' being rebellious ' and the street cred
thing to do.
I never had so much satisfaction failing course members before...........
"Blippie" <blip.remov...@tiscali.co.u.k> wrote in message
news:3d813...@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
James Grove
swind...@dsl.pipex.com says...
> > Sleep.Sleep.Sleep thats all i ever hear from the Police, the fact
> > that they sleep in the cars is beside the point. Take the beds away
> > then, we`ll stay up all night instead, i have no problem with that.
>
> But the Amb Service doesn't sleep on nights... we are always either on 999,
> urgent jobs or pro-active standby.
>
> I was at an incident last week where the chief fire officer on scene told us
> that they don't have target times to meet like the Police and Ambulance
> Service. You have to remember we have 8 minutes to get a Category A job. 8
> minutes! Regardless of where it is! 8 minutes any time of the day or night!
Then that CFO should be sacked we do have response times based on
the building risk, which range from A to E (A being the highest with a
response of 2 1/2 minutes for the first fire engine)
> > Instead of just makking brash of the wall comments, try and
> > undertsand our job, i do not know a great deal about the work of a
> > Paramedic or EMT, so i cant criticise or praise anyone, becuase i dont
> > know. So please do some investigation first.
>
> But I work so close to a main town centre fire station, I can see if they
> are out or not when I pass their station or when I am on my own station,
> they are 95% time on station or out the back of the station cleaning the
> appliance. How often would you see all our ambulances on station? Rarely!!
2 Hours of training and 1 hr of lectures, standard day shift
training. And the point is? Theres less fires, sorry theres nothing we
can do about that. The Army dont get paid less becuase theres no war!
and then spend lots of time cleaning kit.
> > Instead of bickering amoungst each other, why not approach your union to
> > get better pay, after all you deserve it.
>
> But we won't get it! We are part of the NHS and not, like you, the Home
> Office. We simply would not even get Trust Board time! So it's not worth the
> hassle!
Have you told your Union? I am not right in saying earlier this
year your members in NI balloted?
PS: We come under the Office of the DPM not the Home Office.
The government will continue to take the p*ss out of our pay
untill we stand up for our selves, none of us like it, i will be
mortified if we have to take strike action, but if that what it takes to
wake everyone one up to our poor pay, then thats what will have to
happen.
I am not disputing the fact that you are busier than us, its no real
suprise. Over the last 25 years population has increased and those
needed immediate care have tripled have they provided more
Ambulances...No more EMT`s no...
What about Terrorism and Bio and Chemical attacks, we as FF`s and i
would imagine you too have to deal with this, where`s all the xtra money
that the goverment promised...no where to be seen. As FF`s we have to
train for these as we would be used as a first line response before
handing casulaties over to yourselves, did we do this 25 yrs ago no
chance.
This isn't about who des more work than others,,,you could say we do
less, i could say that 1 hr of my work would equal an entire shift for
you in terms of effort and edurance...
The NHS CEO`s and the DPM paying us poor wages becuase they know that
any action would hurt the public and we wouldn`t do that.
EMT`s and Paramedics deserve more money, we as FF`s deserve more money,
thhe sooner they realise this the better.
James Grove
swind...@dsl.pipex.com says...
Oh dear Dave I give up. I take it then that you dont like the Fire
Service....
I wonder what you say about the Army when they arnt at war and
sleeping in there barracks.
What do you hope to achieve with these postings? If its greater
inter service co-operation then I dont think you have the right idea.
Maybe I should also tell you of another review thats taking place,
about training FF`s as EMT and one as a Paramedic with part FF
qualifications? Like it is done in several parts of Europe and in the
US.
I wonder what you colleges think of your comments?
James Grove
says...
> i recently took part in running a 4 day 1st aid course with Hants Am ( they
> considered a qualified frontline crew would get the message across rather
> than an a 1st aid trainer ) , those attending were students who needed a
> 1st aid qualification to pass their college course. What a bunch of lazy,
> degenerate , un motivated , ignorant bas*ards !!!!!!
>
> They obviously think yawning loudly with their feet on the table reading a
> paper mid CPR lesson was funny , ' being rebellious ' and the street cred
> thing to do.
I suggest you read my previous posting about FF`s being trained as
EMT`s then.
Andra T
A
"Houdi Elbow" <sa...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:alslvp$2e3$1...@venus.btinternet.com...
Dave Oliver
my colleague in the Fire and Police Service. They are [most of the time]
there when we need help with an incident. I don't doubt your skills and
training. I have some good friends from the local fire and police services.
I was just generalising! Merely from what I have seen! My own comments. My
own point of view. None of which is intended to be hurtful or spitful. I am
just putting across a point of view.
> Oh dear Dave I give up. I take it then that you dont like the Fire
> Service....
That is certainly NOT the case. I have the greatest respect for you and your
job. For the record, I also don't doubt for a moment that you go into more
life threatening [your own life] situations than we do... but none the less
we are all here to do a job... PROTECT LIFE! I think on the whole we all
work as team (well in the county I work in, we work as a team!! Don't know
about other areas!).
> I wonder what you say about the Army when they arnt at war and
> sleeping in there barracks.
This "discussion" isn't about the Army!! They are paid far more (I believe!)
than we are!
> What do you hope to achieve with these postings? If its greater
> inter service co-operation then I dont think you have the right idea.
For the record and in public, I apologise for any upset caused. It was never
meant to! I wanted to just put my point of view across that was all. I hope
we all continue to build up our good relationships with the other services.
Maybe ALL the 999 services should be paid £30,000 minimum!! Now there's a
thought!!!
> Maybe I should also tell you of another review thats taking place,
> about training FF`s as EMT and one as a Paramedic with part FF
> qualifications? Like it is done in several parts of Europe and in the
> US.
I had heard this!!! But with the greatest respect to you and your job....
and please don't take this the wrong way... but you do your job and we'll do
ours! I disagree with EMT/Paramedics on Fire Engines. You are there to do a
job and we are there to do another job. At the end of the day the public's
safety is paramount, but I wouldn't want to see the 999 services ending
being Jack's of all trades Masters of none! It would be better to keep you
trained as First Aiders [with or without defib training (first responders)].
But advanced training of each others jobs... I think that is a slippery
slop!
Just my humble opinion!!
D x
James Grove
swind...@dsl.pipex.com says...
> > Maybe I should also tell you of another review thats taking place,
> > about training FF`s as EMT and one as a Paramedic with part FF
> > qualifications? Like it is done in several parts of Europe and in the
> > US.
>
> I had heard this!!! But with the greatest respect to you and your job....
Yep thats what we said when they wanted us to train as EMT`s, We
said er Poke it, its not our job, we have enough to learn without adding
all that medical stuff too it!
> and please don't take this the wrong way... but you do your job and we'll do
> ours! I disagree with EMT/Paramedics on Fire Engines.
Are we agree, Cool. I squirt water you fix people.
> You are there to do a
> job and we are there to do another job. At the end of the day the public's
> safety is paramount, but I wouldn't want to see the 999 services ending
Yep i couldnt agree more, but we have been pushed into a corner, and the
FBU wont give in,
Anyway it appears that the Government are going to offer us a deal, to
prevent a stike, more like so they can use the troops in the Gulf.
I would expect to hear something in the next 2 weeks, as i think a deal
may be reached, hopefully.
My boiler just packed in, and its a 3 figure part i need to fix it,
sigh....
Danny Rose
in charge of an appliance without an AEA qualification ( Intermediate Life
Supprt ) and as far as I know regular FF's and new rec's have to pass a
BAA/BAC ( Basic ) . This makes enormous sense when no matter where you go in
the world FF's are at jobs where good/ swift medical intervention is
required and EMS have not arrived on scene / not initially despatched .....
( Not to mention should one of your crew get seriously injured by
accident....)
I agree though that there is a line , where the possibility of sending of
appliances to medical calls is not right. - not your primary role.., but of
course this is my opinion only , my background is a combined service where
fire/ems work from same stations with one command and works well us.
"James Grove" <ja...@jamesgrove.co.uk> wrote in message
news:MPG.17ec61a5...@news-text.blueyonder.co.uk...
James Grove
says...
> Why are you against emt's on fire appliances. In South africa, you cannot be
> in charge of an appliance without an AEA qualification ( Intermediate Life
> Supprt ) and as far as I know regular FF's and new rec's have to pass a
> BAA/BAC ( Basic ) . This makes enormous sense when no matter where you go in
> the world FF's are at jobs where good/ swift medical intervention is
> required and EMS have not arrived on scene / not initially despatched .....
> ( Not to mention should one of your crew get seriously injured by
> accident....)
>
> I agree though that there is a line , where the possibility of sending of
> appliances to medical calls is not right. - not your primary role.., but of
> course this is my opinion only , my background is a combined service where
> fire/ems work from same stations with one command and works well us.
Becuase FF`s have enough training to do and enough stuff to
remmeber without adding medical stuff to it. We have a superb Ambulance
service (even if its under funded) who`s sole role it is to provide that
care.
All FF`s have basic First Aid training and training on what ever
equipment they carry, so areas carry semi and automatic defib`s where as
others carry just a resucitator and neck collars.
I think it would be a bit brash to compare the Fire and Ambulance
service in this country to that of those in South Africa.
We as FF`s give First Aid, if we need an Ambulance and one hasnt
already been sent then we request one. They are experts at there job and
we are experts at ours, thats the way it should stay.
Houdi Elbow
how clever !!!! not actually the course content - hum , ambulance crew &
first aid , seem to be close together in my reckoning ??????
maybe they yawned because they were the sort of dickhead who thinks it's
being really 'hard' showing a total lack of interest. Maybe they yawned
because they are the sort of idiot who thinks the world owes them something
so they don't need to try - yeah, that's more like it !!!!
i tell ya, the best students are the ones with learning disabilities - they
give 110% and want to do the best they can so that says alot for fully
able -bodied people
boring - HA ! check yourself out, maybe you see yourself in your
answer......
"Andra T" <andrew.t...@spamntlwo.rld.com> wrote in message
news:G_og9.4383$QQ3.1...@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net...
Dave Oliver
"Houdi Elbow" <sa...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:alupm2$109$1...@knossos.btinternet.com...
Dave Oliver
incident before us [Ambulance]. We provide advanced life support. There are
generally 6 FF's on an Applicance, there are 6 on an Appliance for a reason,
cos they need that many to deal with the incident, then you are talking
about pulling one or two of them off the Appliance to deal with a
Haemodynmically stable patient... so that adds extra strain to their
colleagues dealing with the incident they are FULLY trained to do. Both the
FF's and the Police are trained in First Aid, they can maintain life, surely
if an incident is that bad; House Fire, Persons Reported; then ALL THREE 999
services are sent. So we are not going to be far behind the Fire Service or
Police!
As James says [I'm glad we are agreeing now!! :-)] we should do our job, the
police do theirs and the fire service do there's. It's getting into
dangerous ground crossing over. We are not trained to put our fires! We are
not trained to arrest someone. Fortunately the other agencies ARE trained in
Basic First Aid [some in Defibrillators too]. That works well.
We have 3 main 999 services... they are there for a reason... if the
Government wanted the FF's to provide paramedical skills then they would
have 2 999 services.
Oooh and you go ahead and squirt your water... I don't like a man with a
full squirting hose in his hand!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-)
Just an opinion!! :-)
Dave
"James Grove" <ja...@jamesgrove.co.uk> wrote in message
news:MPG.17ecf4a88...@news-text.blueyonder.co.uk...
Andra T
"modernisation" agendas. happening already in parts of Devon and Cornwall.news:3d8300ba$0$1288$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com...
James Grove
andrew.t...@spamntlwo.rld.com says...
> Unfortunately the government do want these schemes. Its all in there
> "modernisation" agendas. happening already in parts of Devon and Cornwall.
Umm maybe with automatic defibs, but i personally wont do it, and
i can say thay the FBU would say the same thing. One man One Job.
Andra T
I never said I would do it either and I am very aware of FBU policy on
co-responding. All I am saying is that those in power want co responders
and will inevitably try to get there way.
Andrew
"James Grove" <ja...@jamesgrove.co.uk> wrote in message
news:MPG.17ed77517...@news-text.blueyonder.co.uk...
James Grove
andrew.t...@spamntlwo.rld.com says...
> James,
>
> I never said I would do it either and I am very aware of FBU policy on
> co-responding. All I am saying is that those in power want co responders
> and will inevitably try to get there way.
>
> Andrew
Very true, what i can see and it seems logical is a much more
combined station system, this is working well in the West Midlands.
Scot
I always have a tendency to lean towards the medical side of the argument.
But lets face it......ALL the 999 service need to be paid better...that is
the one thing we do all agree on.
I've worked in several countries as a paramedic & now as a nurse, I've
worked with combined FF/EMT crews, it works well...but it's all relative to
what you are used to...at home in Australia I personally could never see it
working...but then again I'm used to 2 services there.
Fair play to the FF guys....they can strike, fair play to the paras/emts
they do need more pay & the word strike sticks in their throat. Again it's
all relative, nurses in this country won't/can't strike..What we do have to
remember is that we are truly the only people who can empathise with each
others situations
Brothers in Arms etc....feel free to bitch.....but bitch at the bastards who
deserve it....The Government!!.....not each other....lets face it you all
have valid points.
Cheers Lads
All keep fighting the good fight
Scot
(I'm sure I'll be crucified for this one)
Dave Oliver
I agree completely with your comments!!!!!!!!! :-)
The problem we have is, that we CAN'T strike! Who would take over from us
while we were on strike? The FB has the Green Godesses from the Army, we do
we have?? NOTHING to my knowledge! I am aware of the strike nearly 20 years
by ambulance staff, but is was a case of if you had an emergency then you
phoned your nearest ambulance station, therefore urgents and standbys were
not done - only emergencies.
The Government has so many people on it's case for better pay, why is our
job any different to anyone elses? After all, it's only a job! We knew the
pay was crap when we joined. We do the job for the good of public health, if
we did it for the money then there wouldn't be an ambulance service!!
I know our pay is bad for the job we do, we go in to terrible situations and
see some horrendous things, but I am 24 years old, I am a qualified Tech and
£19K for someone my age isn't half bad... we would all like better pay, of
course we would, but I would much prefer better vehicles and better
equipment and generally better working conditions! That is more likely than
a nice pay rise... don't you think??
Just an opinion!!
Dave x
"Scot" <Scot....@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:am0oem$au1$1...@helle.btinternet.com...
SA
"Dave Oliver" <swind...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:3d81d1a1$0$8509$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com...
SA
They can do the 15+ jobs a night (per ambulance....) and we can sleep all
night. Perhaps we would also get chance to eat as well !!!
Fantastic Idea..
"Dave Oliver" <swind...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:3d822903$0$1291$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com...
SA
I've just finished 4 nights, the least number of jobs we did was 12 999'ers,
YES LEAST NUMBER + discharges home for good measure and 20 mins max for my
tea!!! all in 12 hours..
40% rise for ?how may? per shift !!!!!!!!!!!!
"Dave Oliver" <swind...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:3d80e9b3$0$1294$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com...
> I agree that fire fighting is only a small part of your job now, I accept
> that. But I work near a fire station and they had all afternoon yesterday
to
> pose for the tv and newspaper cameras with reference to September 11, they
> marked the occasion with the two minute silence, unfortunately we were
still
> serving the public following 999 calls. We are non stop. We also noted
> something that really pissed all of us off yesterday, they [fire brigade]
> did FAKE blue light runs for the camera. Just to prove they are busy and
> they know how to switch on the blue lights. It really annoyed us cos it
> gives the public the vision that the FB actually DESERVE the 40% pay rise.
>
> I deserve you do a good job, but admit that we are busier than you, the
> police are busier than you and the AA are busier than you. Do you really
> think 40% is WARRANTED? DESERVED? EARNED? Honestly? You sleep at night...
> Sleep! We hardly get to see the station, let alone sleep!!! Come to our
> station and you won't find one single bed....! We work!!
>
> You think your downtime should be used for training?! Well, when do we get
> chance for training?? We get ON THE ROAD, ON THE JOB training with REAL
> PEOPLE in REAL SITUATIONS. We don't have enough time to train cos we do
the
> job 24/7 we are not quiet enough to FORGET OUR SKILLS!!!
>
> Just a pause for thought!!
>
> Dave
> EMT
>
>
> "fred" <fred.th...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:OPLe9.3103$Lp.1...@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net...
> > Blippie
> >
> > 1, we don't attend those calls of old lady with cat in tree.
> >
> > Joy riders just burn the cars out in open ground?? I wish they did that
in
> > my area, If it is in open ground let it burn out by itself. I will not
> out
> > a car fire in open ground, waste my crew's time and for what??
> >
> > Yes some one will die, be it in a fire or a special service call,
remember
> > that fires are now a small proportion to the special service calls that
we
> > attend.
> >
> > Where do you get this statement, the amby has a bigger impact on peoples
> > lives than the fire service.
> >
> > so the persons house has just burn't down, where do you have a bigger
> > impact, do you salavage their goods, help in telling them how / what
> service
> > to contact, get them advise leafets, only leave when their place is
> secure!
> >
> > What about accident prevention, do you actively call on doors giving
> advice,
> > house risk assessments, call on schools doing fire awareness. The reason
> for
> > the number of fires being reduced is due to
> > our proactive work.
> >
> > DO YOU THINK YOU LINE OFF WORK IS PRO or REACTIVE???
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
James Grove
says...
> NO.. put EMT's on fire engines..
>
> They can do the 15+ jobs a night (per ambulance....) and we can sleep all
> night. Perhaps we would also get chance to eat as well !!!
>
> Fantastic Idea..
You need a job in the Home Office. They love that sort of talk,
they can cut back the Ambulance service and the staff and train FF as
EMT`s.
You loose your job and i get an extra qualification. I would
seriouly re-think your posts.
Like it or not, in some areas the Fire Auhtority ARE training FF`s
as EMT`s. This can only mean one think, cuts backs in the Ambulance
Service, or switch staffing at Fire Station that hold Ambulances as
well.
Mezza
I don't think so!
What the government has in mind is using the Fire service to help the
Ambulance trusts out.
In my service alone our 999 calls have increased by 17% in the last two
years. They have been recruiting like hell to try and meet demand.
By the way a pay increase would be nice but lowering the retirement age to
55 and a decent pension would be something to look forward to.
SA
Get back to your bed
"James Grove" <ja...@jamesgrove.co.uk> wrote in message
news:MPG.17eecaf46...@news-text.blueyonder.co.uk...
SA
Keep taking the bait, we'll reel you in !!
"Mezza" <me_zza...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:XRgh9.702$V43....@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net...
James Grove
me_zza...@yahoo.com says...
> I don't think so!
>
> What the government has in mind is using the Fire service to help the
> Ambulance trusts out.
I suggest you read some of the Home Office circulars then.
fred
Are you both techs, cause it seems that the majority of personnel on this NG
and paramedics that I know, that are still in the service supporrt the pay
dispute.
SA, are you continualy out on 999calls, in your 9 - 12hr shift, you never
get any time for food / meals and you never get any sleep on station. But
you will take the meal allowance for missing it???
Training, you always see lots of truama and you don't need to refresh
any of your skills cause you practise them so often and they are never
outdated or the skills never change?? (sounds like old school)
Lets face it, if the ambulance service was not so fragmented with 3 -
4unions and had one, then maybe they would have a voice like the FBU.
The army are going to cover us, so they could cover you if you walked out
too!!
Thankfully there are lots of freindly personnel within the ambulance service
and the old school are fading out(on both services). Then maybe the younger
generation will be able to work and share facilities.
Fred
Whole time FF and State Registered Paramedic !!!
Dave Oliver
Yeah I'm a tech. I have the utmost respect for all my colleagues in the 999
services. I am not old school, since I am only 24! But it is known to be out
for 95% of the shift doing 999 jobs. When it is busy that is what the job
entails. Some shifts we don't get a break, we don't get a proper meal break
on station. We don't sleep on nights cos we are busy doing work! Last night
for example we were out til 0530 before getting back on station (the shift
started at 1915 the previous evening!). Then the early morning chest pains
start coming in on 999!!! So it is manic, it is busy, we don't get mela
breaks (this is a current issue with the JCC!) - frankly we need more
ambulances on the road!! But that is obviously too easy!!!
I thoroughly love my job, it's the best job in the world! I get on with the
other 999 agencies on scene at incidents! I was putting across a personal
opinion and I apologise personally to all those FF's that I may have upset.
I'm sorry! It was not intentional!
Just an opinion
Rgds,
Dave
"fred" <fred.th...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:s4mh9.955$p07....@newsfep1-gui.server.ntli.net...
SA
get a missed meal allowance....
SLEEP??? You must be joking.. On average, the minimum amount of jobs per
shift is 10 (and a job can take an hour) - per vehicle, 4 vehicles at my
station. Vehicle for vehicle, we are one of the most busiest stations in the
country!! And I will not say which..
I fully agree with you, our biggest problem is not having one union.
However, I still don't agree that the FB deserve the 40% that they are
asking for. In the area that I work, we have 6 fire stations, all having
more than 1 appliance. Vehicle for vehicle (amb v's fire) we infinitely out
number the amount of jobs undertaken, so do the police for that matter. OK,
the two jobs are completely different, but, IN MY OPINION, they no way
warrant a 40% increase in pay for what they actually do. Saying that,
neither do we.
Don't take this the wrong way, but a fire is a fire, water and brawn go hand
in hand - yep, no doubt the army can do that, but how much contact has the
army with civilian patients. When was the last time the average soldier
delivered a baby on the bathroom floor or told Mrs Smith that her husband
has just died or.................................... you get my drift? Sure,
this has been mentioned before in this NG, but the impact of the FB striking
and the impact of the AS striking are incomparable.
This discussion will go on and on, I'm sure and as long as it does, I'll
continue to air my opinion against the FB for what they are demanding....
after all, this I the "ambulance" NG..
Love..
Me
"fred" <fred.th...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:s4mh9.955$p07....@newsfep1-gui.server.ntli.net...
Darren
> I would have expected a better comment from a fellow 999 worker,
> in all the years i have been a FF its only been the Police that have
> ever given us grief. No it seems that you are, i hope that doesnt go for
> all Paramedics and Ambulance crews.
<big snip for brevity>
> Instead of bickering amoungst each other, why not approach your union to
> get better pay, after all you deserve it.
> James Grove
Unity is all well and good when you're the 'well off relatives' of the
family.
Sure we could all stick together when it comes to supporting your pay
claim, sadly as has already been pointed out you are considerably better
paid than ambulance staff, with considerably better conditions and with
considerable looser morals when it comes to denying the public an
emergency service.
Unity we can give you, all we ask in return is equality.
DFF
Steve Dawson
Funny you should mention your boiler 'cause Dave does not have a lot of time
for tradesmen . But I'm not getting into that again.
Regards
Steve Dawson
James Grove
stephen...@btclick.com says...
> Funny you should mention your boiler 'cause Dave does not have a lot of time
> for tradesmen . But I'm not getting into that again.
Sorry you`ve lost me on this one, perhaps its best just left as it
is, without explaination?!
Mike Barnard
<d...@poplar-stn.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> Instead of bickering amoungst each other, why not approach your union to
>> get better pay, after all you deserve it.
>> James Grove
>Unity is all well and good when you're the 'well off relatives' of the
>family.
>Sure we could all stick together when it comes to supporting your pay
>claim, sadly as has already been pointed out you are considerably better
>paid than ambulance staff, with considerably better conditions and with
>considerable looser morals when it comes to denying the public an
>emergency service.
>Unity we can give you, all we ask in return is equality.
In my eyes, (FF, West Sussex), you deserve more pay than us. That
doesn't mean we deserve less than others, so I suggest a 50% pay rise
would really do your service good. As much chance as us getting our
40%, I know, but yes, you deserve it.
As for equality, don't ask us for it, ask yourselves for it. Isn't
there a new union designed to become the one union?
Investigate it, join it, spread the word and put up a case. Like wot
we are doing.
--
Regards,
The Pizza Man -UK-
56k rules...
Dave Oliver
tradesmen!!!! :-)
Dave Oliver
Staff to the likes of plumbers, electricians etc. Calling us "tradesmen"...
it was a discussion from a couple of months ago!!!
I disagreed that we were not Tradesmen! And so the argument went on and
on!!!!
Thats all!!!
"James Grove" <ja...@jamesgrove.co.uk> wrote in message
news:MPG.17f045b38...@news-text.blueyonder.co.uk...
Dave Oliver
Hear Hear!!
Nuff said!!
Just an opinion
Regards,
Dave
"SA" <sl> wrote in message
news:3d86120a$0$8514$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com...
James Grove
swind...@dsl.pipex.com says...
> Briefly explained.... certainly people on this NG were comparing Ambulance
> Staff to the likes of plumbers, electricians etc. Calling us "tradesmen"...
> it was a discussion from a couple of months ago!!!
>
> I disagreed that we were not Tradesmen! And so the argument went on and
> on!!!!
>
> Thats all!!!
k, all clear...over...LOL
Dave Oliver
"Andra T" <andrew.t...@spamntlwo.rld.com> wrote in message
news:nrEg9.1320$rO5....@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net...
Blippie
I think the situation varied across the country.
Some local ambulance stations publicised their own 'phone numbers and
therefore staff continued to provide emergency coverage accessed directly by
the public.
The VAS operated in force in some parts of the country, with some
professional staff operating as volunteers for SJA and BRCS, some volunteers
received support from the professional staff, other faced unjust abuse.
In some areas, VAS wagons were crewed by volunteers and police drivers.
Raid your station oldies (if you have any left) for eye witness accounts!
Cheers
Blippie
--
Visit the alt.aviation.safety FAQ online at www.blippie.org.uk
Blippie
and
>see some horrendous things, but I am 24 years old, I am a qualified Tech
and
... The sad thing is, not withstanding inflation, we shall still be
recieving the same salary when we are 65!
Blippie
>ambulances on the road!! But that is obviously too easy!!!
Certainly far too easy.
Let's have more RRVs!
Let's campaign for RRVs to saturation!
Blippie
>and the impact of the AS striking are incomparable.
Absolutely.
At least I was able to get leave to go on the Liberty and Livelihood march!
-snigger-
James Grove
swind...@dsl.pipex.com says...
> Is it true they are getting 20% to stop them from striking???
No, we were going to be offered 15 percent back in June but Two Jags
stopped it.
Blippie
Is it true they are getting 20% so the army boys are free to attack a third
world country?