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bram...@aol.com
Jun 15, 2013, 4:35:49 AM6/15/13
to
we recently bought a home which at the rear of the garden and attached is a 2 acre grassed area surrounded by a circa 20ft drainage dyke or ditch,the area had for years been a virtual scrapyard with derelic cars,engins etc,the sellers father in law was a scrap dealer so you can imagine,the only access is through our garden.there is a stable block on the land and we believe it has been there for many years and was floor to ceiling in car parts.
We are slowly bringing it all back to a really nice standard,removing many tonnes of oil soaked soil and 61 tonnes of inspection pit which was filled and grassed over,the paddock has been harrowed and fed and looks good,we would like to plant a few fruit trees and now the stables are cleaned and treated we would like to use them as a summerhouse for nice days,we have no intention of building on the land but have been told we would have to apply for change of use,neighbors have told us it has never been used for agriculture because there is no access except over our garden and it has always been an eyesore at least for the last 50 yrs,has anyone any advice or views about this,they would be very welcome,thanks in advance,Bob
We are slowly bringing it all back to a really nice standard,removing many tonnes of oil soaked soil and 61 tonnes of inspection pit which was filled and grassed over,the paddock has been harrowed and fed and looks good,we would like to plant a few fruit trees and now the stables are cleaned and treated we would like to use them as a summerhouse for nice days,we have no intention of building on the land but have been told we would have to apply for change of use,neighbors have told us it has never been used for agriculture because there is no access except over our garden and it has always been an eyesore at least for the last 50 yrs,has anyone any advice or views about this,they would be very welcome,thanks in advance,Bob
Pat Gardiner
Jun 15, 2013, 2:12:30 PM6/15/13
to
On Sat, 15 Jun 2013 01:35:49 -0700 (PDT), bram...@aol.com wrote:
>we recently bought a home which at the rear of the garden and attached is a 2 acre grassed area surrounded by a circa 20ft drainage dyke or ditch,the area had for years been a virtual scrapyard with derelic cars,engins etc,the sellers father in law was a scrap dealer so you can imagine,the only access is through our garden.there is a stable block on the land and we believe it has been there for many years and was floor to ceiling in car parts.
> We are slowly bringing it all back to a really nice standard,removing many tonnes of oil soaked soil and 61 tonnes of inspection pit which was filled and grassed over,the paddock has been harrowed and fed and looks good,we would like to plant a few fruit trees and now the stables are cleaned and treated we would like to use them as a summerhouse for nice days,we have no intention of building on the land but have been told we would have to apply for change of use,neighbors have told us it has never been used for agriculture because there is no access except over our garden and it has always been an eyesore at least for the last 50 yrs,has anyone any advice or views about this,they would be very welcome,thanks in advance,Bob
I think the answer is to write to your local authority, carefully
>we recently bought a home which at the rear of the garden and attached is a 2 acre grassed area surrounded by a circa 20ft drainage dyke or ditch,the area had for years been a virtual scrapyard with derelic cars,engins etc,the sellers father in law was a scrap dealer so you can imagine,the only access is through our garden.there is a stable block on the land and we believe it has been there for many years and was floor to ceiling in car parts.
> We are slowly bringing it all back to a really nice standard,removing many tonnes of oil soaked soil and 61 tonnes of inspection pit which was filled and grassed over,the paddock has been harrowed and fed and looks good,we would like to plant a few fruit trees and now the stables are cleaned and treated we would like to use them as a summerhouse for nice days,we have no intention of building on the land but have been told we would have to apply for change of use,neighbors have told us it has never been used for agriculture because there is no access except over our garden and it has always been an eyesore at least for the last 50 yrs,has anyone any advice or views about this,they would be very welcome,thanks in advance,Bob
preserving the copies, and follow their instructions/advice.
The reason for being so careful is not obvious.
If you cut some corners, you may well get away with it...
...until, many years forward, when you come to sell, someone buying
queries the whole issue.
Then you have a crisis on your hands at a time when you least need it.
I'm not going to defend the current system: it is bonkers. But
sometimes it is better to go along with it.
--
Regards
Pat Gardiner
Release and independently audit the results of testing British pigs
for MRSA, C.Diff and Hepatitis E now!
http://animal-epidemics.blogspot.com/
Old Codger
Jun 15, 2013, 3:45:36 PM6/15/13
to
However, if you don't intend to build anything, significantly alter or
demolish the stables what is the worst that the authority could do?
They are unlikely to require to to reinstate a scrap yard. Should a
potential purchaser start getting difficult just suggest you could
easily return it to scrap yard status. In any event, after a certain
time (12 years?) it becomes accepted by default if no objections have
been raised.
If you want a better class of response, post to uk.legal.moderated. One
or two of the posters are lawyers and many are knowledgeable.
--
Old Codger
e-mail use reply to field
What matters in politics is not what happens, but what you can make
people believe has happened. [Janet Daley 27/8/2003]
Message has been deleted
Old Codger
Jun 15, 2013, 5:31:53 PM6/15/13
to
On 15/06/2013 21:11, Malcolm wrote:
>
> In article <51bcc464$0$1096$5b6a...@news.zen.co.uk>, Old Codger
> <m...@privacy.net> writes
> Our local authority here in Scotland has a system called a
> Pre-application Enquiry. Essentially, if you are unsure if you need
> planning permission, you fill in a form with the details and this is
> then considered by the planning department and they let you know whether
> you can go ahead or whether you need to submit a full planning
> application. You should check whether your local authority has such a
> system. If not, planners are usually very approachable and are able to
> discuss things informally, i.e. without you having to make an actual
> application.
>
> I used this system regarding an addition to my house, I filled in the
> form and sent it off together with a simple, hand-drawn plan, and the
> planning officer responded quite quickly requesting a little more detail
> about sizes, distances to neighbouring boundaries, etc., and when I had
> answered these, I got the go-ahead. It saves time and money for both
> parties.
>
> You don't say who told you that you had to apply for change of use, but
> as you have only recently bought the place, I would suggest you could go
> back to your solicitor and check what he knows from examining the deeds
> at the time of purchase.
>
Assuming use as a scrapyard had been authorised then it is likely that a
change back to agriculture or domestic would, officially, require a
formal application. Of course, if the previous use had just developed
through neglect of a domestic garden then a return to domestic garden
should not present any official problems.
Some years ago my neighbours purchased the field at the bottom of their
garden from the farmer, to keep sheep and ponies. However much later
they extended their garden into the field, making a new veg plot. A
local parish councillor, who had a good view of this development,
commented to me that it required planning permission but that he would
keep quiet. There have been no repercussions.
Recently a developer purchased the farm house, when the farmer retired,
and developed the farm yard. He also sold a strip of land for residents
to add to their gardens, giving the remainder of that field to the
parish. The planning authority came down hard on the residents telling
them they they could not even fence the land. They eventually relented
but no other changes have been allowed, not even planting trees.
Since the OP is intending to turn an eyesore into a garden I suspect he
will have little trouble, but some planners can be tyrants.
>
> In article <51bcc464$0$1096$5b6a...@news.zen.co.uk>, Old Codger
> <m...@privacy.net> writes
> Pre-application Enquiry. Essentially, if you are unsure if you need
> planning permission, you fill in a form with the details and this is
> then considered by the planning department and they let you know whether
> you can go ahead or whether you need to submit a full planning
> application. You should check whether your local authority has such a
> system. If not, planners are usually very approachable and are able to
> discuss things informally, i.e. without you having to make an actual
> application.
>
> I used this system regarding an addition to my house, I filled in the
> form and sent it off together with a simple, hand-drawn plan, and the
> planning officer responded quite quickly requesting a little more detail
> about sizes, distances to neighbouring boundaries, etc., and when I had
> answered these, I got the go-ahead. It saves time and money for both
> parties.
>
> You don't say who told you that you had to apply for change of use, but
> as you have only recently bought the place, I would suggest you could go
> back to your solicitor and check what he knows from examining the deeds
> at the time of purchase.
>
Assuming use as a scrapyard had been authorised then it is likely that a
change back to agriculture or domestic would, officially, require a
formal application. Of course, if the previous use had just developed
through neglect of a domestic garden then a return to domestic garden
should not present any official problems.
Some years ago my neighbours purchased the field at the bottom of their
garden from the farmer, to keep sheep and ponies. However much later
they extended their garden into the field, making a new veg plot. A
local parish councillor, who had a good view of this development,
commented to me that it required planning permission but that he would
keep quiet. There have been no repercussions.
Recently a developer purchased the farm house, when the farmer retired,
and developed the farm yard. He also sold a strip of land for residents
to add to their gardens, giving the remainder of that field to the
parish. The planning authority came down hard on the residents telling
them they they could not even fence the land. They eventually relented
but no other changes have been allowed, not even planting trees.
Since the OP is intending to turn an eyesore into a garden I suspect he
will have little trouble, but some planners can be tyrants.
Derek Moody
Jun 15, 2013, 10:16:01 AM6/15/13
to
In article <8415d968-19e7-424e...@googlegroups.com>,
<URL:mailto:bram...@aol.com> wrote:
<Snipped and reflowed>
> we recently bought a home which at the rear of the garden and attached is
> a 2 acre grassed area surrounded by a circa 20ft drainage dyke or ditch
Romney Marsh style? You need to check the level of the water table...
> standard,removing many tonnes of oil soaked soil and 61 tonnes of
> inspection pit which was filled and grassed over,the paddock has been
> harrowed and fed and looks good,we would like to plant a few fruit trees
...before planting trees. Two reasons, most tree roots run much deeper than
grass and there may yet be an oil residue lifting out from deeper soil. Your
clean-up efforts suggest you should be OK legally on the pollution front but
if oil seeps into your ditches and so into local waterways the river/water
authorities would want to be kept informed.
> and now the stables are cleaned and treated we would like to use them as a
> summerhouse for nice days,we have no intention of building on the land but
> have been told we would have to apply for change of use, neighbors have
cultivation probably did take place. Why not take a look at some old maps?
The local record centre and museums might have useful records too.
Ianal so the change of use application is out of my ken, you'd need to get
legal advice but I'd guess that reverting to a previous use should be easier
than an apparent new direction.
Cheerio,
--
>> de...@farm-direct.co.uk
>> http://www.farm-direct.co.uk/
<URL:mailto:bram...@aol.com> wrote:
<Snipped and reflowed>
> we recently bought a home which at the rear of the garden and attached is
> a 2 acre grassed area surrounded by a circa 20ft drainage dyke or ditch
> standard,removing many tonnes of oil soaked soil and 61 tonnes of
> inspection pit which was filled and grassed over,the paddock has been
> harrowed and fed and looks good,we would like to plant a few fruit trees
grass and there may yet be an oil residue lifting out from deeper soil. Your
clean-up efforts suggest you should be OK legally on the pollution front but
if oil seeps into your ditches and so into local waterways the river/water
authorities would want to be kept informed.
> and now the stables are cleaned and treated we would like to use them as a
> summerhouse for nice days,we have no intention of building on the land but
> told us it has never been used for agriculture because there is no access
> except over our garden and it has always been an eyesore at least for the
> last 50 yrs,
Stables imply a previous use and the area is enough that some sort of
> except over our garden and it has always been an eyesore at least for the
> last 50 yrs,
cultivation probably did take place. Why not take a look at some old maps?
The local record centre and museums might have useful records too.
Ianal so the change of use application is out of my ken, you'd need to get
legal advice but I'd guess that reverting to a previous use should be easier
than an apparent new direction.
Cheerio,
--
>> de...@farm-direct.co.uk
>> http://www.farm-direct.co.uk/
buddenbrooks
Jun 16, 2013, 1:50:24 AM6/16/13
to
"Old Codger" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:51bcdd4d$0$1107$5b6a...@news.zen.co.uk...
sell and may deter buyers not willing to wait.
Can't see why there should be a problem as it is a clear improvement.
greymausg
Jun 16, 2013, 4:12:11 AM6/16/13
to
On 2013-06-15, Old Codger <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>
> However, if you don't intend to build anything, significantly alter or
> demolish the stables what is the worst that the authority could do?
> They are unlikely to require to to reinstate a scrap yard. Should a
> potential purchaser start getting difficult just suggest you could
> easily return it to scrap yard status. In any event, after a certain
> time (12 years?) it becomes accepted by default if no objections have
> been raised.
In the present economic climate, 12 years is a long time. Neighbour
>
> However, if you don't intend to build anything, significantly alter or
> demolish the stables what is the worst that the authority could do?
> They are unlikely to require to to reinstate a scrap yard. Should a
> potential purchaser start getting difficult just suggest you could
> easily return it to scrap yard status. In any event, after a certain
> time (12 years?) it becomes accepted by default if no objections have
> been raised.
put in stables in a former hay shed, and never applied for anything,
but had to sell shortly after. Those stables held up the closing
of the sale for a good while. (This example is Irish, but shows that
details have to be researched.
>
> If you want a better class of response, post to uk.legal.moderated. One
> or two of the posters are lawyers and many are knowledgeable.
>
--
.
.
...
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