(Scottish) Crofts and crofting
sarah
facts of (agricultural) life. We daydream of moving to Scotland. In our
wildest daydreams we move to Scotland and build or rebuild a house with
a decent garden/bit of land in (by our standards) a nice place. The few
investigations I've made often reveal land with some/all crofter's
rights and, presumably, some responsibilities too. I know a little of
the history of crofts and the clearances, but I don't know anything of
the modern technicalities. Bearing in mind these are our daydreams, so
not worth too much of your valuable time... are there legal/physical
requirements made of the crofter? (Characterful eccentricity/insanity we
can manage, and we'll assume a sufficiency but no excess of funds.)
regards
sarah
--
Think of it as evolution in action.
Jill.
Crofting law can be quite complex and can impose a wide variety of burdens
[ and some advantages ] on the tenants.
http://www.crofterscommission.org.uk/
Is a very good place to start
as is http://www.crofterscommission.org.uk/a_faq.htm
Some houses within a crofting community may be decrofted but that may mean
you do not have the rights to use the land around you
With the Land reform bill more and more communities are looking at buying
out their lairds so it may get more or less complicated
In different areas the complexities change so another useful contact is a
good crofting solicitor in the area of your choice.
Much depends on the demand for the actual land and the previous land use and
the economy of the area.
Looking at the "Local Plan" of the area you have chosen is another option.
This identifies the land that has been deemed by the local authority as
being somewhere suitable for the next tranch of house building or
development. You don't want development areas as these have to have a
certain number of houses on but the settlement areas can identify places
that you might like. You can then approach the owners of the property to see
what their feelings about selling and building are.
Local Plans are revised every 5 -10 years in general
Good luck with the dream
--
regards Jill Bowis
Pure bred utility chickens and ducks
Housing; Equipment, Books, Videos, Gifts
Herbaceous; Herb and Alpine nursery
Working Holidays in Scotland
http://www.kintaline.co.uk
Jill.
"Linda Sutherland" <linda.su...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3130303032353...@zetnet.co.uk...
> In message <43847fab$0$9464$ed26...@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>
> " Jill." <ne...@REMOVETHISkintaline.co.uk>wrote:
>
> > Crofting law can be quite complex
>
LOL
I "was" trying to be kind -- this is in dreamland -- I did not want to bring
TOO much reality in
>
> I have seen crofts defined as 'pieces of land adrift in a sea of
> legislation' , or something to that effect.
Yup - that sounds familiar
And the legislation's
> currently under review ...
again
:~))
--
regards Jill Bowis
Pure bred utility chickens and ducks
Housing; Equipment, Books, Videos, Gifts
Herbaceous; Herb and Alpine nursery
Working Holidays in Scotland
http://www.kintaline.co.uk
>
> --
> Linda Sutherland
> linda.su...@zetnet.co.uk
Derry Argue
> In message <43847fab$0$9464$ed26...@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>
> " Jill." <ne...@REMOVETHISkintaline.co.uk>wrote:
>
>> Crofting law can be quite complex
>
If you are going to take over a registered croft (i.e. registered with
the Crofters Commission), you have to show that you are a "suitable
person". That would probably mean that you intend to continue to farm
the land and contribute to the local community. As you will be "vetted",
much also depends on the local demand.
Croft land is usually rented from a landlord. But some crofts are
"owner-occipied". If the former, you will probably have to be also
approved by the landlord. You will also buy the house, buildings,
fences, etc. from the crofter as the rent of a croft is usually for the
"bare land". It is the crofter who owns these "improvements".
A native Highlander friend of mine was interested in buying a croft. But
the out-going crofter wanted £30,000 (for his "improvements"). I
couldn't resist having a joke at his expense and telling him the
£30,000 would be the solicitor's fees! These days, it probably isn't far
from the truth.
I think the bottom line is probably to go for it. If there is little or
no local demand, you are in with a good chance. But be prepared for the
worst and the best will look after itself.
There was a TV documentary some years ago about some whizz kid who had
bought a Highland estate. He was telling how he was going to convert all
those derelict cottages into holiday lets! He was convinced that because
he had bought the land, he owned the buildings on it. Not so. Get a good
local solicitor as Jill advises.
BTW, my crofting law is probably about 30 years out of date!<g>
Derry
sarah
> "Linda Sutherland" <linda.su...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:3130303032353...@zetnet.co.uk...
> > In message <43847fab$0$9464$ed26...@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>
> > " Jill." <ne...@REMOVETHISkintaline.co.uk>wrote:
> >
> > > Crofting law can be quite complex
> >
> > Understatement alert!
>
> LOL
>
> I "was" trying to be kind -- this is in dreamland -- I did not want to bring
> TOO much reality in
>
> >
> > I have seen crofts defined as 'pieces of land adrift in a sea of
> > legislation' , or something to that effect.
>
> Yup - that sounds familiar
>
> And the legislation's
> > currently under review ...
>
> again
> :~))
Even more complex than I'd feared. Just as well it is a daydream at this
point; Research seems a very good idea (thanks for the URLs, Jill),
followed if ever appropriate by engaging a solicitor with local
experience of croft law. Thanks for that!
Jim Webster
"Linda Sutherland" <linda.su...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3130303032353...@zetnet.co.uk...
> In message <43847fab$0$9464$ed26...@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>
> " Jill." <ne...@REMOVETHISkintaline.co.uk>wrote:
>
>
>
> I have seen crofts defined as 'pieces of land adrift in a sea of
> currently under review ...
I've heard that quote as well
Jim Webster
Jim Webster
" Jill." <ne...@REMOVETHISkintaline.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4384990e$0$9502$ed26...@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
>
> "Linda Sutherland" <linda.su...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:3130303032353...@zetnet.co.uk...
> > In message <43847fab$0$9464$ed26...@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>
> > " Jill." <ne...@REMOVETHISkintaline.co.uk>wrote:
> >
> > > Crofting law can be quite complex
> >
> > Understatement alert!
>
> LOL
>
> I "was" trying to be kind -- this is in dreamland -- I did not want to
bring
> TOO much reality in
>
> >
> > I have seen crofts defined as 'pieces of land adrift in a sea of
> > legislation' , or something to that effect.
>
> Yup - that sounds familiar
>
> And the legislation's
> > currently under review ...
>
> again
> :~))
>
and Scottish land law at the moment is getting 'a little political'
Jim Webster
sarah
> > In message <43847fab$0$9464$ed26...@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>
> > " Jill." <ne...@REMOVETHISkintaline.co.uk>wrote:
> >
> >> Crofting law can be quite complex
> >
>
> If you are going to take over a registered croft (i.e. registered with
> the Crofters Commission), you have to show that you are a "suitable
> person". That would probably mean that you intend to continue to farm
> the land and contribute to the local community. As you will be "vetted",
> much also depends on the local demand.
I suspected this. It seems reasonable for such small communities. We
might be stuck in town then... :-)))
>
> Croft land is usually rented from a landlord. But some crofts are
> "owner-occipied". If the former, you will probably have to be also
> approved by the landlord. You will also buy the house, buildings,
> fences, etc. from the crofter as the rent of a croft is usually for the
> "bare land". It is the crofter who owns these "improvements".
>
> A native Highlander friend of mine was interested in buying a croft. But
> the out-going crofter wanted £30,000 (for his "improvements"). I
> couldn't resist having a joke at his expense and telling him the
> £30,000 would be the solicitor's fees! These days, it probably isn't far
> from the truth.
Not having bought any property recently, I don't know. But I was
slightly surprised by some of the suggested prices for places I found
listed. We'd need to spend much more time in the area, I think, perhaps
find a medium-term let, find out exactly what the winter's like. I have
a fairly vivid imagination, though, and one shopowners' comment that
January expeditions to Inverness made his village feel like a cemetery
was truly heartfelt.
> I think the bottom line is probably to go for it. If there is little or
> no local demand, you are in with a good chance. But be prepared for the
> worst and the best will look after itself.
>
> There was a TV documentary some years ago about some whizz kid who had
> bought a Highland estate. He was telling how he was going to convert all
> those derelict cottages into holiday lets! He was convinced that because
> he had bought the land, he owned the buildings on it. Not so. Get a good
> local solicitor as Jill advises.
>
> BTW, my crofting law is probably about 30 years out of date!<g>
Never mind, we can't possibly do much more than dream for the next five
years,[1] and even then we'll have to take a long, hard look at the
notion of *retiring* to the most isolated place we can find. Not really
sensible, but then we've been sensible for decades.
regards
sarah
[1] Famous last words?
Jill.
"sarah" <use...@colddrake.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1h6hoke.15pbgab11xe5n0N%
> Not having bought any property recently, I don't know. But I was
> slightly surprised by some of the suggested prices for places I found
> listed.
Which sort of general ball park area are you talking about Sarah?
>We'd need to spend much more time in the area, I think, perhaps
> find a medium-term let, find out exactly what the winter's like.
you might find that difficult too -- sorry
October to April lets are fine and dandy but bearing in mind most properties
are let out through the summer on weekly lets as the income stream is so
much higher
Other lets are 1-2 year minimum in general
> I have a fairly vivid imagination, though, and one shopowners' comment
that
> January expeditions to Inverness made his village feel like a cemetery
> was truly heartfelt.
One thing about winter times is it allows you to find out about the local
vibe. Each community has a completely different one and while the area and
some individuals you get to know in the summer might really appeal things
can change quite a bit out of season.
Places with no pub for instance can be very isolating to the individuals and
you get cliques set up
Very small places with a social club or pub can get so in each others pocket
it is unbearable.
>
> Never mind, we can't possibly do much more than dream for the next five
> years,[1] and even then we'll have to take a long, hard look at the
> notion of *retiring* to the most isolated place we can find. Not really
> sensible, but then we've been sensible for decades.
>
Dreams are what life is about
--
regards Jill Bowis
Pure bred utility chickens and ducks
Housing; Equipment, Books, Videos, Gifts
Herbaceous; Herb and Alpine nursery
Working Holidays in Scotland
http://www.kintaline.co.uk
sarah
> In article <1h6hoke.15pbgab11xe5n0N%use...@colddrake.co.uk>, sarah
> <use...@colddrake.co.uk> writes
> >Derry Argue <ho...@adviegundogs.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >> > In message <43847fab$0$9464$ed26...@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>
> >> > " Jill." <ne...@REMOVETHISkintaline.co.uk>wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Crofting law can be quite complex
> >> >
> >>
> >> If you are going to take over a registered croft (i.e. registered with
> >> the Crofters Commission), you have to show that you are a "suitable
> >> person". That would probably mean that you intend to continue to farm
> >> the land and contribute to the local community. As you will be "vetted",
> >> much also depends on the local demand.
> >
> >I suspected this. It seems reasonable for such small communities. We
> >might be stuck in town then... :-)))
> >
> There have been recent articles in the Scottish press about how high the
> demand for crofts is in some areas, which was blamed (?) on people such
> as yourself, looking to move to the country and take on a bit of land.
'Blame' is fair, in truth. Retirees from Down South can afford to pay
more for the places than can the locals, which drives prices up and
usually means younger people who'd like to stay on in the place they
were born can't afford to -- they can't earn enough That's one of the
reasons I'm hesitant about doing it. Another is that the smaller
communities actually *need* couples with children who'll make use of
schools and other facilities. Having said that, if we found something no
one else wanted (too isolated/run down/whatever), we might be considered
better than nothing :-) I don't mean that quite as it reads, but I think
you know what I mean.
regards
sarah
sarah
> "sarah" <use...@colddrake.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:1h6hoke.15pbgab11xe5n0N%
>
> > Not having bought any property recently, I don't know. But I was
> > slightly surprised by some of the suggested prices for places I found
> > listed.
>
> Which sort of general ball park area are you talking about Sarah?
hmm. Remembering it's a dream -- Torridon/Gairloch and points north,
anywhere within an hour of the sea and west of the watershed.
> >We'd need to spend much more time in the area, I think, perhaps
> > find a medium-term let, find out exactly what the winter's like.
> you might find that difficult too -- sorry
> October to April lets are fine and dandy but bearing in mind most properties
> are let out through the summer on weekly lets as the income stream is so
> much higher
> Other lets are 1-2 year minimum in general
That might be feasible. Long enough to find out what it's like. In
theory we could rent this place for enough to pay for somewhere else. I
have seen a couple of lets for 6 months, usually seems to be a
family/education thing. None of them are regular rentals, just ordinary
people's homes.
> > I have a fairly vivid imagination, though, and one shopowners' comment
> that
> > January expeditions to Inverness made his village feel like a cemetery
> > was truly heartfelt.
>
> One thing about winter times is it allows you to find out about the local
> vibe. Each community has a completely different one and while the area and
> some individuals you get to know in the summer might really appeal things
> can change quite a bit out of season.
> Places with no pub for instance can be very isolating to the individuals and
> you get cliques set up
> Very small places with a social club or pub can get so in each others pocket
> it is unbearable.
We've heard that of one of the villages we know in that area. Someone --
a long term resident -- who was really looking forward to moving out to
their (newly rebuilt) croft to get out of everyone else's pockets. We're
not really sociable enough to need a lot of convivial company (in fact
socialising wears me out quickly, and him even faster), so in many
respects we'd do better on the fringes somewhere.
> > Never mind, we can't possibly do much more than dream for the next five
> > years,[1] and even then we'll have to take a long, hard look at the
> > notion of *retiring* to the most isolated place we can find. Not really
> > sensible, but then we've been sensible for decades.
> >
>
> Dreams are what life is about
True. And at some point in the not-too-distant future we'll have to
decide what we want to do with however much life we've got left.
Thinking through our options, er, dreams in the interim seems sensible
to me. We can always go back to Canada; we're considering that, too,
but... we both *like* it here.
regards
sarah