Broken chuck on SDS drill

[Bert Coules]

Something has gone amiss with the chuck on my ageing budget SDS drill (Ferm
FBH620 from Screwfix many moons ago): tools no longer twist-and-lock.

I've seen fixes online but the prospect of dismantling the chuck doesn't
really appeal. A quick test has revealed that the tool still works
perfectly well as a chisel (which has always been my main need) except for
the inconvenient fact that the bit keeps falling out.

Is there any reason why I shouldn't take my most-often-used chisel bit and
simply stick it in the chuck? A spot of Araldite or even superglue on the
very end ought to hold it, oughtn't it?

Many thanks.

[Brian Reay]

A 'rigid' glue may break up under vibration. Can you not remove the
chuck and get a replacement?

[Bert Coules]

Brian Reay wrote:

> A 'rigid' glue may break up under vibration.

True, but that would leave me no worse off than I am now and until it
happened I'd have a useable SDS chisel.

> Can you not remove the chuck and get a replacement?

I did have a quick search but didn't find anything available. And actually,
with comparable brand new drills available from around £50 I think I'd
probably prefer to go down that route.

Thanks for the thoughts.

[Andy Burns]

Bert Coules wrote:

> A spot of Araldite or even superglue on the very end ought to hold it,
> oughtn't it?

I doubt it would hold.

[Bob Minchin]

An SDS tool has to slide in the chuck. Gluing it will be no good.

[newshound]

On 06/08/2018 15:57, Bert Coules wrote:

Are you sure this is not caused by a buildup of dried grease and/or
cementatious matter from drilling? May be worth giving the chuck a good
rinse in solvent, followed by your preferred oil spray. May also need to
poke in the hole with a brush and/or jiggle any SDS bit around in the
chuck to help clear it.

[Bert Coules]

Bob Minchin wrote:

> An SDS tool has to slide in the chuck. Gluing it will be no good.

I was contemplating gluing only the very end of the tool, which I hoped
would secure it to the hammer part of the mechanism. Unless the glue
spread, of course...

[Bert Coules]

Andy Burns wrote:

> I doubt it would hold.

Yes, so do I really, but I thought it might be asking. The drill is useable
even with the chisel-bit loose: it's just inconvenient to have to keep
putting back in.

[Bert Coules]

"newshound" wrote:

> Are you sure this is not caused by a buildup of dried grease and/or
> cementatious matter from drilling? May be worth giving the chuck a good
> rinse in solvent, followed by your preferred oil spray. May also need to
> poke in the hole with a brush and/or jiggle any SDS bit around in the
> chuck to help clear it.

I did try that in a half-hearted sort of way; I'll have another go. But the
fact that the non-locking happened suddenly and that up to then the
twist-and-lock had felt extremely smooth and positive does make me think
that something's broken or possibly misplaced. I believe that one or more
spring-loaded ball bearings are involved, is that right?

[Bob Minchin]

I'd imagine a hard adhesive would transmit the hammer blows for a second
or so and a flexible adhesive would hold for longer but cushion the
hammer blows so i feel you are pissing into the wind with this idea.

[John Rumm]

On 06/08/2018 15:57, Bert Coules wrote:

The thing about a SDS chuck is that it does *not* have a rigid grip on
the bit. It retains it, and stops it rotating relative the the chuck,
but it must allow it to slide in and out a bit for the hammer action to
actually work.

The sliding hammer inside the drill smacks the back of the bit - which
accelerates it forward, and the chuck lets it slide - but catches it
before it is actually ejected from the machine. If you fix the bit to
the chuck it won't work, and you can't fix it to the hammer either (it
only needs to contact the bit on the forward stroke).

So in short, you need to fix or replace the chuck, or treat yourself to
a new drill... (and a 2kg class Makita or similar will be a complete
revelation after the Ferm!)



--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Monday, 6 August 2018 17:50:48 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
> On 06/08/2018 15:57, Bert Coules wrote:

> > Something has gone amiss with the chuck on my ageing budget SDS drill
> > (Ferm FBH620 from Screwfix many moons ago): tools no longer twist-and-lock.
> >
> > I've seen fixes online but the prospect of dismantling the chuck doesn't
> > really appeal.  A quick test has revealed that the tool still works
> > perfectly well as a chisel (which has always been my main need) except
> > for the inconvenient fact that the bit keeps falling out.
> >
> > Is there any reason why I shouldn't take my most-often-used chisel bit
> > and simply stick it in the chuck?  A spot of Araldite or even superglue
> > on the very end ought to hold it, oughtn't it?
>
> The thing about a SDS chuck is that it does *not* have a rigid grip on
> the bit. It retains it, and stops it rotating relative the the chuck,
> but it must allow it to slide in and out a bit for the hammer action to
> actually work.
>
> The sliding hammer inside the drill smacks the back of the bit - which
> accelerates it forward, and the chuck lets it slide - but catches it
> before it is actually ejected from the machine. If you fix the bit to
> the chuck it won't work, and you can't fix it to the hammer either (it
> only needs to contact the bit on the forward stroke).

well if you do it won't hammer :)

> So in short, you need to fix or replace the chuck, or treat yourself to
> a new drill... (and a 2kg class Makita or similar will be a complete
> revelation after the Ferm!)

There are ways to bodge it horribly, eg elastic round the bit tied or glued to the drill, but if money's not too tight get a decent drill. I'm happy enough with a 2kg Dewalt.


NT

[John Rumm]

Yup, if you look at the shank of the bit you can see where they sit/engage.

[Bert Coules]

John,

Thanks for all that.

> (and a 2kg class Makita or similar will be a complete revelation after the
> Ferm!)

In what respect? The Ferm did - everything I needed it to. It was more
than powerful enough, easy to handle, and required little maintenance. How
will a Makita or similar be better than that?

[Bert Coules]

<tabb...@gmail.com> wrote:

> There are ways to bodge it horribly, eg elastic

> round the bit tied or glued to the drill...

On the part of the shank which goes into the chuck, you mean?

[John Rumm]

IME In several ways... (although this may depend on which Ferm you have
- the early ones were very crude - the later ones slightly less so)

Firstly its lighter to hold and probably a better ergonomic design - so
less fatigue using it.

It will have a chuck that allows you to rotate a chisel bit to an
orientation of your choice and then lock it in that position. So
chiselling a straight cut is much easier, and you can also do it in any
direction while holding the drill at an comfortable angle. (many of the
cheapies allow a bit to wander in rotation when in roto stop mode)

It will have a better speed control, allowing you to chisel very gently
to start with if you need - say delicate cutting through a plaster skim
coat while edging round where you want to cut a socket back box recess.

It will run much cleaner - you just need the occasional spot of grease
on the shank of a bit (say once every twenty bit swaps), there is no
reservoir that needs refilling, and it won't gob grease over what you
are working on when it gets hot.

Other than that you get a nice long (12' - 16') rubber flex, and a motor
rated for continuous use.

[Jim K]

"Bert Coules" <ma...@bertcoules.co.uk> Wrote in message:

> Brian Reay wrote:
>
>> A 'rigid' glue may break up under vibration.
>
> True, but that would leave me no worse off than I am now and until it
> happened I'd have a useable SDS chisel.
>

For a time period measured in minutes & seconds! ;-)


--
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Jim K


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[Brian Gaff]

You think?
Well good luck with that one, all that vibration and odd angular stresses.
Brian

--
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"Bert Coules" <ma...@bertcoules.co.uk> wrote in message
news:oqednSqbiop4_PXG...@brightview.co.uk...

[Bert Coules]

John,

Thanks for that.

I've had the Ferm for a few years but I certainly wouldn't describe it as
being in any way crude, so perhaps I was lucky and missed the earliest
incarnation.

The locking-orientation chuck sounds like a good refinement but since most
of the use I have for the tool is demolition than channel-cutting I think
it's something I can live without. And while the Ferm is certainly weighty
I've not found that a particular inconvenience.

The speed control does sound desirable though, as do the other improvements.

[newshound]

Horses for courses, though, my ancient Ferm SDS was a fraction of the
price of a Makita. No chuck lock as you say, but long rubber flex and it
appears to have a continuous rated motor. I do, generally, buy more up
market tools these days but I reckon the Ferm is OK for "building site"
type jobs.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <qcWdnR-AG5aa0_TG...@brightview.co.uk>,

Bert Coules <ma...@bertcoules.co.uk> wrote:
> The locking-orientation chuck sounds like a good refinement but since
> most of the use I have for the tool is demolition than channel-cutting
> I think it's something I can live without. And while the Ferm is
> certainly weighty I've not found that a particular inconvenience.

Becomes very tiring when used to chase walls over a lighter one.

In some ways, you need two. A heavy one is perhaps easier for breaking up
paths etc as the weight helps there.

--
*Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines *

Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Bert Coules]

Brian Gaff wrote:

> You think?

Well, not any longer!

[Bert Coules]

"newshound" wrote:

> Horses for courses...

If I decide to replace the Ferm I'll go for another budget model, probably
from Screwfix again. For my (mainly demolition-based) purposes I really
don't need anything more high-end than that.

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Monday, 6 August 2018 21:15:36 UTC+1, Bert Coules wrote:

that would make no sense


NT

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, 7 August 2018 07:59:56 UTC+1, JimK wrote:
> "Bert Coules" <ma...@bertcoules.co.uk> Wrote in message:
> > Brian Reay wrote:
> >
> >> A 'rigid' glue may break up under vibration.
> >
> > True, but that would leave me no worse off than I am now and until it
> > happened I'd have a useable SDS chisel.
> >
>
> For a time period measured in minutes & seconds! ;-)

we'd all love to know what magic glue would survive direct SDS hammering for minutes. Even solid steel didn't survive 1 second when I tried it.

[John Rumm]

On 07/08/2018 08:45, Bert Coules wrote:
> John,
>
> Thanks for that.
>
> I've had the Ferm for a few years but I certainly wouldn't describe it
> as being in any way crude, so perhaps I was lucky and missed the
> earliest incarnation.
>
> The locking-orientation chuck sounds like a good refinement but since
> most of the use I have for the tool is demolition than channel-cutting I
> think it's something I can live without.  And while the Ferm is
> certainly weighty I've not found that a particular inconvenience.

Yup if all you are doing is knocking stuff down, it will be less of an
issue. I tend to use mine for things were a bit of refinement and
control make the difference between a job done well enough, and a big
ugly hole in a wall ;-)

> The speed control does sound desirable though, as do the other
> improvements.

[dennis@home]

On 07/08/2018 11:41, John Rumm wrote:
> On 07/08/2018 08:45, Bert Coules wrote:
>> John,
>>
>> Thanks for that.
>>
>> I've had the Ferm for a few years but I certainly wouldn't describe it
>> as being in any way crude, so perhaps I was lucky and missed the
>> earliest incarnation.
>>
>> The locking-orientation chuck sounds like a good refinement but since
>> most of the use I have for the tool is demolition than channel-cutting
>> I think it's something I can live without.  And while the Ferm is
>> certainly weighty I've not found that a particular inconvenience.
>
> Yup if all you are doing is knocking stuff down, it will be less of an
> issue. I tend to use mine for things were a bit of refinement and
> control make the difference between a job done well enough, and a big
> ugly hole in a wall ;-)
>
>> The speed control does sound desirable though, as do the other
>> improvements.
>
>
>
>

Aren't pneumatic chisels somewhat easier to use when doing back boxes,
etc. if you have one?

You can get a lot more power into one than a hand held electric tool
without them overheating.

They are dirt cheap if you already have a decent compressor.

[John Rumm]

On 07/08/2018 13:12, dennis@home wrote:
> On 07/08/2018 11:41, John Rumm wrote:
>> On 07/08/2018 08:45, Bert Coules wrote:
>>> John,
>>>
>>> Thanks for that.
>>>
>>> I've had the Ferm for a few years but I certainly wouldn't describe
>>> it as being in any way crude, so perhaps I was lucky and missed the
>>> earliest incarnation.
>>>
>>> The locking-orientation chuck sounds like a good refinement but since
>>> most of the use I have for the tool is demolition than
>>> channel-cutting I think it's something I can live without.  And while
>>> the Ferm is certainly weighty I've not found that a particular
>>> inconvenience.
>>
>> Yup if all you are doing is knocking stuff down, it will be less of an
>> issue. I tend to use mine for things were a bit of refinement and
>> control make the difference between a job done well enough, and a big
>> ugly hole in a wall ;-)
>>
>>> The speed control does sound desirable though, as do the other
>>> improvements.

> Aren't pneumatic chisels somewhat easier to use when doing back boxes,
> etc. if you have one?

Not tried to be fair... but lack of power is not typically a problem
with doing a back box - control and accuracy matter more.

> You can get a lot more power into one than a hand held electric tool
> without them overheating.
>
> They are dirt cheap if you already have a decent compressor.

Air tools are a bit of a mixed bag IME. Can be very good in the workshop
when a decent compressor is to hand, but not usually worth the hassle
for job site work.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <21gaD.855738$EJ.8...@fx02.am4>,

dennis@home <den...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Aren't pneumatic chisels somewhat easier to use when doing back boxes,
> etc. if you have one?

> You can get a lot more power into one than a hand held electric tool
> without them overheating.

How long does it take you to chase out a back box?

> They are dirt cheap if you already have a decent compressor.

But a decent compressor would need lugging around. And one with enough
power for air tools is going to be large and heavy.

My SDS is a truly ancient DeWalt one - one of the first affordable
lightweight types with roto stop. Cheaper ones came along, but it's still
a good combination of power and manageability.

--
*I don't suffer from insanity; I enjoy every minute of it.

[Bert Coules]

> ...that would make no sense.

As I realised immediately I posted.

[newshound]

+1 for "demolition" uses.

Serious question, though, I havn't needed to do any chasing for some
time, are the modern better quality SDS drills good for that? I tend to
use an angle grinder for cable chasing, and just a cold chisel for
removing tiles. I'd find my Ferm (which I think is about 4kg, it's the
type with the motor axis parallel to the handle rather than the drill
axis) a bit heavy for removing tiles, at least from walls.

[John Rumm]

On 07/08/2018 14:11, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <21gaD.855738$EJ.8...@fx02.am4>,
> dennis@home <den...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> Aren't pneumatic chisels somewhat easier to use when doing back boxes,
>> etc. if you have one?
>
>> You can get a lot more power into one than a hand held electric tool
>> without them overheating.
>
> How long does it take you to chase out a back box?
>
>> They are dirt cheap if you already have a decent compressor.
>
> But a decent compressor would need lugging around. And one with enough
> power for air tools is going to be large and heavy.
>
> My SDS is a truly ancient DeWalt one - one of the first affordable
> lightweight types with roto stop. Cheaper ones came along, but it's still
> a good combination of power and manageability.

For chisel work I find my 2kg class machine gets by far the lions share
of the work.

I have a 8kg SDS Max machine that I managed to pick up from Wicks for a
ridiculous price[1], plus a full on 15kg hex shank breaker they I needed
to buy for a one off job. They probably get used once every two years at
most.

[1] some years back someone posted a link here to the Wickes site where
they were selling off remaining stock of their "pro" badged own brand
stuff, including a SDS Max for £30 quid or something silly. According
the the web site our local branch had one, so I went and asked em. They
did not know they had it. I had to look up the reference number for them
on my phone. Chap toddled off and came back with it, and when opening
the case to look, decided that a small tube of grease had oozed a bit,
getting some on the tool manual. So he gave me another fiver off. Not
bad for a drill they sold for £335 at one point. (it was OEMed by
Sparky, so its reasonable although not top end kit). It will probably
cost me more to buy new chisels!

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <b5idnYJl1_piLfTG...@brightview.co.uk>,

newshound <news...@stevejqr.plus.com> wrote:
> Serious question, though, I havn't needed to do any chasing for some
> time, are the modern better quality SDS drills good for that?

That's mainly what I bought my 2gk one for, although the hole drilling was
very useful too. Both of which is does very well while weighing very
little more than a decent mains drill.

> I tend to
> use an angle grinder for cable chasing, and just a cold chisel for
> removing tiles.

I tend to avoid an angle grinder if possible indoors due to the mess.

> I'd find my Ferm (which I think is about 4kg, it's the
> type with the motor axis parallel to the handle rather than the drill
> axis) a bit heavy for removing tiles, at least from walls.

That I found the problem with a powerful SDS. I've not found my small one
lacking in power for drilling holes, and I don't do much path breaking up.

--
*Haunted French pancakes give me the crepes.*

[Jim K]

tabb...@gmail.com Wrote in message:

Minutes after you glued it, seconds when you tried to use it. Ok twat?

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, 7 August 2018 19:45:20 UTC+1, JimK wrote:
> tabbypurr Wrote in message:

> > On Tuesday, 7 August 2018 07:59:56 UTC+1, JimK wrote:
> >> "Bert Coules" <ma...@bertcoules.co.uk> Wrote in message:
> >> > Brian Reay wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> A 'rigid' glue may break up under vibration.
> >> >
> >> > True, but that would leave me no worse off than I am now and until it
> >> > happened I'd have a useable SDS chisel.
> >> >
> >>
> >> For a time period measured in minutes & seconds! ;-)
> >
> > we'd all love to know what magic glue would survive direct SDS hammering for minutes. Even solid steel didn't survive 1 second when I tried it.
> >
>
> Minutes after you glued it, seconds when you tried to use it. Ok twat?

I didn't think you had a clue. Plonk.


NT

[Jim K]

tabb...@gmail.com Wrote in message:

I know you don't, plonker.

[Harry Bloomfield]

on 06/08/2018, Bert Coules supposed :

> Is there any reason why I shouldn't take my most-often-used chisel bit and
> simply stick it in the chuck? A spot of Araldite or even superglue on the
> very end ought to hold it, oughtn't it?

It will not work for two reasons...
1. Any rigid glue will rapidly break up with the vibration.
2. The chuck has to allow the bit to move inside the chuck, to hammer
it. Rigid= no hammer action.