Re: [TLDA-Members] TLDA Lists and website shutdown - now and for good
TLDA Member (David Scott)
you are supplying to move off site the information held on your servers,
or are you openly admitting that you are hijacking, and erasing all
information held within your servers.
No one sir has attacked you, you have made a statement that demands the
attention to the organization, and your response is below.
I have asked questions again, and your responses are evasive and
eluding, my question now is WHY?
Why are you attacking personnel in the movement to progress the
Inclusive NameSpace, and when approach with the response of you needing
to answer allegations, you pull this. Not only are you admitting
hijacking the TLDA, by openly admitting the need to be the sole
re-writer of the bylaws, which is a violation of the bylaws them selves.
You are admitting that you will erase all content on your machine, just
because they are you machines.
Why do you think I forward all these messages to an unbiased area?
Why do you think I keep of all the messages I have received?
Because of control freaks like yourself sir.
I have made an attempt to bring up to the TLDA to offer FREE at no
charge ever to web-host for the TLDA, Mr. Palmer has opened refused this
offer numerous times.
As a web-host, I will not moderate, the list, but maintain the hardware,
in order to maintain the web-site.
I am not a moderator, nor do I wish to have that responsibility, I just
would like to further the TLDA by donating a service, Web-Hosting.
Many people have tried to aide the TLDA in a movement further and many
people would like to see the TLDA fail, I firmly believe that Mr. Palmer
is one of these people. And having a secretary of an organization that
has personal issues againist other people, which are pertrayed through
the organization as a view of the organization, then the organization
set in motion with bylaws to protect it's members, are being violated.
I am one of those members in question who have been violated.
John Palmer wrote:
> I have had it with this organization and all of you. Karl, Joe, David Scott.
>
> I spend what little time I have working on the byLaws, fully expecting to be a one or two
> man show until January 31, 2008, but deciding to stick it out till then anyways in a hope that
> maybe we could get one or two more people on board.
>
> Every time I try to do something, I get yelled at. People use my own hardware that I pay
> for to take shots at me when I try to take a stand against people like Joe Baptista.
>
> No one (except yes, Karl, sorry about that Karl) other than myself have done substantial
> work for the TLDA over the past year.
>
> I'm through with working on this project. Let it die on 1/31/08. The websites and e-mail
> lists die now. I don't want this shit on my servers anymore. I'm busy and will not waste anymore
> time on this nonsense.
>
> Bye bye all
> John Palmer
>
> _______________________________________________
> Members mailing list
> Mem...@TLDA.NET
> http://MAIL.TLDA.NET/mailman/listinfo/members
>
>
--
David Scott ucann2.org
UCANN2 - see the world's network
Mobile :: +1-678-343-2505
Office :: +1-770-267-4361
Joe Baptista
I just want to clarify what happened to the TLDA. Thanks to Dave Scott
for posting Mr. Palmers resply to the TLDA members list.
As of yesturday, September 30, 2007, Mr. Palmer in his usual style
pulled the plug on the TLDA. All web sites and mailing lists are now
offline. This is now the third incident in which Palmer has committed
an act that causes harm to the TLDA and its members. The first was when
I organized the TLDA back together. He pulled the plug back then. The
second was when he highjacked the domain names of the TLDA being
tlda.org and tlda.net. And now the third is what he did yesturday in
pulling the plug on the web sites and mailing lists.
Let this be a lesson to the TLDA and its directors. I told you all
Palmer was unstable. I warned you all Palmer could not be trusted. Now
all that is left is for me to sing that old song "I TOLD YOU SO".
Karl is making an attempt to get the TLDAs domain names back. And he
has asked Palmer to provide the archives for the web site and mailing
lists. I don't think he's going to do that. Let us not forget that
Palmer is essentially an agent of Herman Xennt of INAIC. Palmer is very
much involved in the scams and fraud perpetrated by Herman Xennt,
therefore the TLDA is an inconvenience to Herman Xennt, and therefore I
expect Palmer will do everything in his power to prevent the TLDA from
getting back it's assets.
Shame on you Mr. Palmer - shame on you.
I wish the TLDA the best of luck in getting its affairs in order.
kindest regards
joe baptista
>John Palmer wrote:
>
>
>>I have had it with this organization and all of you. Karl, Joe, David Scott.
>>
>>I spend what little time I have working on the byLaws, fully expecting to be a one or two
>>man show until January 31, 2008, but deciding to stick it out till then anyways in a hope that
>>maybe we could get one or two more people on board.
>>
>>Every time I try to do something, I get yelled at. People use my own hardware that I pay
>>for to take shots at me when I try to take a stand against people like Joe Baptista.
>>
>>No one (except yes, Karl, sorry about that Karl) other than myself have done substantial
>>work for the TLDA over the past year.
>>
>>I'm through with working on this project. Let it die on 1/31/08. The websites and e-mail
>>lists die now. I don't want this shit on my servers anymore. I'm busy and will not waste anymore
>>time on this nonsense.
>>
>>Bye bye all
>>John Palmer
>>
>>
--
Joe Baptista www.publicroot.org
PublicRoot Consortium
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Joe Baptista
by all of us here. I am very glad to hear that "John has agreed very
cordially to pass the domains over to our now established corporate
web-hosting account". Thats fantastic. Of course John has made many
promises he has failed to keep. So I want to ask all of us here to pray
together that John indeed will carry out this promise. Its the right
thing to do. Also he may consider passing the original membership list
on to you. All documentation should be forwarded on. And this does not
have to be a rush job. It simply has to be done.
Johns actions against the TLDA of shutting down the web sites without
notice was arrogant, rude and possibly actionable. To quickly pass over
control would show any court, including the court of public opinion,
that the Palmer ship of state has sunk wth the captain proudly at the
wheel. I will remember he did the right thing - but history will never
change. The record shows he's done alot of wrong things I and many
other members done approve of.
I agree with you completely. We all are the TLDA. Members or not. And
yes it is time to put the TLDA back on its feet. I will consider making
a proposal that will satisfy me that immediate concerns - like
collissions - are delt with promptly. The TLDA maybe reorganizing -
that bullshit I don't really care about - but it has no time to make any
further excuses that it can't meet its mandate. There are plenty of
people here who can do the technical function of figuring out a
collission and making a decision in accordance with the bylaws.
Lets make a difference. Lets not reorganize ourselves to death. Lets
do some work. Lets show the community the TLDA can deliver on the
promises defined by its bylaws.
cheers
joe baptista
Karl E. Peters wrote:
> All,
>
> For the record, despite any past experiences, John has agreed
> very cordially to pass the domains over to our now established
> corporate web-hosting account. My request for copies of archives came
> only this morning and there has been no time yet for a response. John
> has taken a lot of flack lately and grown weary of the concentration
> on attacks rather than building the organization. I believe that
> everyone, on both sides of the issues, really believes what they are
> saying. Sometimes it is more important to do the right thing than it
> is to simply be right, if only in our own minds.
>
> While I hate to see John leave what has so long been a big part
> of his vision for the future of the INS, I hope that those who remain
> will now focus on what they can do to help, or simply stand aside and
> watch. If we all really want there to be such an organization, we must
> allow it some air to breath as it develops and matures and prepares to
> open its doors. Recent activities may well have effectively killed the
> movement, but I will do my best to hold onto what life we still have
> and nurture it back to health as best I can. You all know that I will
> need your cooperation for this to work. The future of the TLDA and its
> vision is up to you! If it fails, you will all share in the
> responsibility. If it succeeds, there will be more than enough joy to
> go around!
>
> -Karl E. Peters
Joe Baptista
Karl E. Peters wrote:
> For the record, I have now received a number of files that I have not
> had time to look at. (We had the 140th anniversary for a church my
> family started here today, then my son's football practice and now
> youth groups.) I believe, however, that we are getting all we need in
> terms of archives and so forth.
>
Good. Shows were moving in the right direction. Progress is always
good and welcomed.
> The one caveat is that John is awaiting approval from those who
> entrusted the domains to him to ok a change of ownership, but offers
> complete other control of them now and until we get them completely.
>
Thats crap. He's picked up too many bad habits from the Herman Xennt
scam artist. For the record these domains were gifted to the TLDA.
John is playing a scam here and I don't approve of that. Shame on John!
> At least one came to him from Gene Marsh who is out of town, and I
> believe the other was from a gentleman from Australia whose name
> slipped away just as I sat down to type. In any event, we have not
> heard from him this year at all. I am not sure how the approval will come
>
Patrick Corliss is dead. He was diagnosed with prostrate cancer several
years ago. Spoke with him on many occassions. Told me when he was
terminal - which he expected - that he would move back to england - his
orignal home and he would leave the internet completely. One day he
told me he was packing it up and leaving. And he has not been seen or
heard of in years. Under those circumstance would John like to contact
the estate? This is a load of crap from John. Until these domains are
transferred - I consider Palmer to be doing nothing more nor less then
scamming us on the TLDA.
> . Perhaps we should just forget those domains and use ones that belong
> to us. We already have the www.tldainc.org domain. How many do we
> need? Perhaps it is not worth playing all the games for the worn out ones!
>
I don't have a problem with using that one immediately. The links will
be put up as soon as I have time.
> Where were all those qualified and willing people when I suggested a
> plan of action and asked for just such volunteers to study and prepare
> a statement for the situations you already brought to us. I am not
> against this effort. I just want to employ other members than those
> working on the By-Laws and both find valuable purpose for those who
> step up and allow time of those others of us to do what we need to do
> for the long term. Are some ready now? It's not too late...
>
Have you not been paying attention. Dave Scott has offered to help on a
number of occassions. He is technically capable of analysing a
collission. I'm sure Peter dambier would help. I would advise both of
them against becoming appointed directors. Right now theres alot of
liability crossing the door mats of all directors since the inception of
the TLDA. So until you get members to vote I would strongly recommend
against any members accepting directorships.
One thing you can't screw up is the analysis of a TLD collission. It
either is or is not and the rules to define a solution are in the bylaws
of the TLDA. Therefore Gentlemen directors current and past, you can
meet the minimum test that the TLDA is doing it primary mandated duty to
the community. That is one key reason why I got you people back
together again. To do you jobs. The Inclusive Name Space is becoming a
technical mess. And the TLDA is the organization I seek out to solve
the mess.
Now I have already solved the mess because I have all the archives going
back to the PacificRoot crash. My archives incidentally are also housed
with scott. In the event I go poof - David has the back ups. But he
can't use them. Thats our agreement. David is essentially my
warehouser of INS data. Something the TLDA should of done if it
followed its bylaws. Anyway - the issue here is that I am not the
designated community authority on the INS. The TLDA is. Your solutions
are my pleasure.
You see Karl. I respect the mandate of the TLDA. I do not however
respect Palmers bullshit. Were going to be successful now that we've
finally gotten rid of the scam artists lap dog. But someday were going
to have to sue him and make him pay for all this bullshit he put us
through. Shame on you John Palmer. Shame on you.
> My interest in the by-laws is to smooth it out so there are less
> things to trip us up and more to propel us forward. Making reference
> to specific domains and ,ail-list addresses, for example, completely
> disables us until we have real control over our assets and would
> require super-human efforts just to change our website or mail
> addresses should we find any reason we would want to. Others are
> cleaning up some of the many "funny" things we ran across occasionally
> but could never muster energy to fix due to the high threshhold for
> by-law changes. It's just so much easier to do these and present it as
> a complete product than it is to drag an entire membership through
> debate and voting on dozens of small matters when we will have real
> work to do once really open for business.
>
>
I don't really have much interest in the bylaws. As long as the
mandates are not changed. And as long as the bylaws we have now are
obeyed. I'm rather happy you have exercised the emergency powers I gave
the board via my crafty resolutions. Just remember - with power comes
sever liability. You have to be careful the intent of the existing
bylaws are honored. One problem I see is that you now have members.
Karl read the resolutions I prepaired for you very carefully. I'm not
sure how the emergency powers translate once you have a membership
organization. I'm not going to bother going through them - but it may
pay to reread them carefully.
cheers
joe baptista
TLDA Member (David Scott)
What exactly do you mean by that?
And my service have always been free under UCANN2. I can not and will not
sign any contract with anyone under the UCANN2 name, as this is a collection of TLD maintainers themselves
which are populated by UCANN2 in order to offer all free transparent internet services. UCANN2 holds a ever changing repository to the TLD's located within the INS structure, built over laying the structure of ICANN, but not excluding ICANN.
As a member of the TLDA, I would suspect that I would be considered inside the TLDA, if this is not correct
then what constitutes being inside the TLDA.
Gene Marsh wrote:
TLDA.ORG was originally mine, and "gifted" to the TLDA, and hence under John's control. I approve of the change of ownership. John, sorry to hear it has come to this. You have been a valuable asset (and a pain in the ass at times - but that could be said of nearly all of us, me included). All, I am in town trying to catch up on a few things. My new position has me hopping 6+ days per week, 12-16 hours per day. Also, (to digress to the personal for a moment), I have a 14 yr old son who is a fantastic athlete and an A/B student. Get this: On his 9th grade football team, he is the smallest lineman at 6'1" 190lbs. They have 8 linemen over 240lbs, including a kid who is 6'8" 335. AGE 14 and 15!!! They are undefeated with an average margin of victory of 27 pts. In addition, he will be the number 2 or 3 defenseman on his high school hockey team, as a freshman, and has junior A teams scouting him. Hockey has him travelling all over the region. My point is, my time is very limited. A couple notes: - Joe, we do not have members. We have the authority (and directive) to establish a membership. - No one's approval (outside of the current board members) is needed to go forward with TLDA directives. In fact, it would be better if non-board members only offer opinion as to *their* position, and leave it at that. - It is not the TLDAs job to correct a mess in the Inclusive Name Space. With that stated, it may still be prudent for the TLDA to state a position on a potential collision... or to make an official statement that it has no position. Karl, this is something you could appoint an individual or small group to investigate, and return findings to the board. - The TLDA is *not* authoritative in any way over the INS. However, it may be an appropriate course for the TLDA to have a stated set of positions - technical and otherwise - on the INS. The specifics of those stated positions may depend on the resolution of the roles (TLDA as a trade association vs. TAPROOT technical advisement). - David Scott may be a fine resource (he reminds me in some ways of Alex Koralewski aka Cynikal). However, he is *outside* the TLDA at this point. If he would like to offer his services, under contract, to the TLDA we as a board should take that under advisement and balance it against all other appropriate options (if any). Gene... -----Original Message----- From: tlda-m...@googlegroups.com [mailto:tlda-m...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Joe Baptista Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 8:24 PM To: BIHINC Cc: Marsh, Gene; Meyer, Roeland; Palmer, John;
-- David Scott ucann2.org
Joe Baptista
> As a member of the TLDA, I would suspect that I would be considered
> inside the TLDA, if this is not correct
> then what constitutes being inside the TLDA.
Thanks for bringing this up. Gene is playing the bullshit angle. And
I'm not happy with that. You are a member in good standing. As is
Peter Dambier. Both of you applied for membership at the invitation of
the TLDA. You applied in good faith. After all - Karl told everyone he
had filed the articles of amendment to allow for members. It was only
much later that I uncovered that the articles where never filed.
I think Gene is playing the technicality angle. Not wise. But then
again. I have resigned from the TLDA and it's really not my business
anymore. My concern is that the TLDA get on with its job. And it looks
like Gene may be warming up to that.
Oh what a mess Gene is in. When I found out he was going to appointed a
director I conacted Gene congratulated him and asked why he bothered.
Did he have time to do it. Now we find out he has no time and is
screwing around with the members of the TLDA. To be absolutely
technical here - the TLDA either transferred its membership - which is
clear in the documentation or it did not. In any case you and Peter
Dambier may be the only members here.
Oh what a mess.
cheers
joe
Joe Baptista
Fact - David Scott and Peter Dambier were accepted as members by the
membership committee - i.e. by Karl Peters and John Palmer.
Those are the facts. The other fact that Karl screwed up the amending
articles to allow for membership is irrelevant. Now that they are filed
your club has two official members.
The rest about the grandfathering is the technically sticky issue your
stuck with. Because it is a fact the intent of the board in giving Karl
permission to incorporate was with the intention that the Georgia
organization has members. Again the facts are clear. Karl screwed up
the incorporation - an ended up with a no member organization. This we
all know was inadvertent.
So your in a sticky situation here. And David is a georgian.
Facts facts facts and more facts. The real fact here is that these so
called members or non members acted in good faith. Your original
members trusted you with the fiduciary responsibility that they would
not be disinfranchised. What a screw up you guys have on your hands.
You get my drift. The only reason why you have leave to make these
excuses is because Karl screwed up the original incorporation and the
amendments. And now your penalizing your members who acted at all time
in good faith. I would not want to be in your shoes gene.
And no I disagree with your claim you have no hidden agenda. I have
made it clear your in a conflict of interest. I have asked you to
declare it or address it and you have been silent. You sir have been a
member of the scam known as the INAIC/Newroot council. Stand up be
counted and tell us about that. Disclose.
kindest regards
joe baptista
Gene Marsh wrote:
>Incorrect Joe. I am only stating facts. Please refrain from constantly taking a negative angle. I have no hidden agenda, no ulterior motive, and never have. Never will.
>
>Technicality? The "technicalities" are the essence of any agreement, in principal or fact. I have stated nothing but the truth, and you know it very well. In "fact", it is likely there will be either a "grandfathering" of previous "members" or some type of initial entrance for those who have previously met a potential membership criteria (any such criteria in the past would have been moot, due to the then-current structure of the corporation).
>
>This is not personal, it is an attempt to stay within the facts and get us rolling forward. Statements of "fact" made by others, and not responded to, may be incorrectly construed as being accepted as such - even if they are not. My responses are addressing such statements.
>
>Gene...
Peter Dambier
the world has not been nuked.
It's only the bomb who finaly decided to switch on the light.
It wasn't its first attempt so. Until now we could convince it
to go back into its bay.
As for the mail archive -
I have a personal archive from january 3rd.
John's mailing list is missing. I guess my mailer and John's
mailer could not talk to each other.
Roeland MEYER - net wrote:
> Well, it looks like I have three different email addrs, on four
> different lists, plus a few addresses that I didn't know I had.
> Oh, the joys of email!
>
> I am sorry to hear about John. Monitoring this stuff for a few
> days, I finally peek out from behind my spam shield and find out
> that the world's been nuked. We are now down to three, working on
> the restart. It is even more imperitive that we concentrate on the
> restart and get it right this time. We have a corporate shell and
> we have directors capable of doing the work. Everything else,
> regarding what the TLDA should be responding to, is, for the
> moment, noise. That is, until the get more bones and some meat on
> this pile-of-bones-that-isn't-even-a-complete-skeleton. It sort of
> reminds me of an anthropology project. What I don't want to do is
> to create another Frankenstein monster like the ICANN. Been there,
> done that, burnt the tee-shirt.
>
> One of the major problems from previous starts is that we got
> distracted before all the groundwork has been laid. We need to
> avoid that this time. I realise that some may get impatient but
> this is work that needs to be done and done correctly, this time.
> Jumping off half-cocked is going to get this organization killed
> ... again.
>
> We need to go all the way back to square-one and re-examine our
> scope. Mostly in terms of what is realistic and feasable. We also
> have to have a growth plan but not before we determine direction
> of growth. I know that the three of us have some ideas. We need to
> organize those ideas. Also, what I think we did wrong is to go
> straight to the by-laws before determining scope. Scope determines
> everything and we never had good agreement or even a decent
> vision, as a group, on scope. Until we have that, we will
> continually become distracted by side-issues which may or not be
> our mandate. I will be contacting the other two committee members
> seperately.
>
> --
> R O E L A N D M J M E Y E R
> Avenue Viollier 24
> 1260 Nyon, Switzerland
> Mob: +41(0)79295 14 68
> Web: http://www.roelandmeyer.org
> Mail: mailto:roel...@roelandmeyer.org
> http://home.caselle-vpn.net
> Complaints mailto:ab...@caselle-vpn.net
>
>
>
--
Peter and Karin Dambier
Cesidian Root - Radice Cesidiana
Rimbacher Strasse 16
D-69509 Moerlenbach-Bonsweiher
+49(6209)795-816 (Telekom)
+49(6252)750-308 (VoIP: sipgate.de)
mail: pe...@peter-dambier.de
mail: pe...@echnaton.arl.pirates
http://iason.site.voila.fr/
https://sourceforge.net/projects/iason/
http://www.cesidianroot.com/