What's supposed to replace menus?
Gerhard Magnus
run without problems) I'm still trying to adjust to the Unity desktop.
(By the way, is it correct to call Unity a desktop, equivalent to the
old Big Two of Gnome and KDE?) I'm getting more comfortable working with
that Mac-like bar at the top of my screen and have installed a
familiar-looking taskbar (Panel Tint2) at the bottom so I can easily
switch between windows. But the complete absence of menus (except for
the short one I get clicking on the upper righthand corner) has me
wondering if I'm missing some basic difference between old and new
desktops; maybe not as big as a paradigm shift, but still something
different about how this sort of interface is supposed to work. Is using
some customized version of the panel on the left, or else clicking on
the "Dash" button and then typing at least part of the program name
supposed to replace familiar menus like "Applications", "Places", and
"System"? What was the motivation here for getting rid of menus? I can
live without them, but I'd sure like to know why they left in the first
place!
--
ubuntu-users mailing list
ubuntu...@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users
Sonny Golovine
and search for whatever you need.
PS: And yes, Unity is a desktop.
Avi Greenbury
> Is using some customized version of the panel on the left, or else
> clicking on the "Dash" button and then typing at least part of the
> program name supposed to replace familiar menus like "Applications",
> "Places", and "System"?
Yep. The thinking is that it's quicker and easier to hit the Windows
key then type a few characters and hit enter than to navigate menus.
Opinions differ but I definitely find it faster and easier.
I don't think there's a way to get the menus back as there is in, say,
Gnome 3. Well, the Gnome 3 way is to install an extension for it, but
I've not seen one of those for Unity.
--
Avi
Pastor JW
> As a newcomer to Ubuntu 11.10 (from Fedora 14, the last of its line to
> run without problems) I'm still trying to adjust to the Unity desktop.
> (By the way, is it correct to call Unity a desktop, equivalent to the
> old Big Two of Gnome and KDE?) I'm getting more comfortable working with
> that Mac-like bar at the top of my screen and have installed a
> familiar-looking taskbar (Panel Tint2) at the bottom so I can easily
> switch between windows. But the complete absence of menus (except for
> the short one I get clicking on the upper righthand corner) has me
> wondering if I'm missing some basic difference between old and new
> desktops; maybe not as big as a paradigm shift, but still something
> different about how this sort of interface is supposed to work. Is using
> some customized version of the panel on the left, or else clicking on
> the "Dash" button and then typing at least part of the program name
> supposed to replace familiar menus like "Applications", "Places", and
> "System"? What was the motivation here for getting rid of menus? I can
> live without them, but I'd sure like to know why they left in the first
> place!
I don't know what the motivation was but so far I have lost two of my users
because of it. One said, and I quote, "If I have to go through all this crap
to start a program, I'll just go back to windoze". So I had to load XP back
on his computers. Kinda sucks but I can't blame him. I doubt I'll get him
back even after Unity is dumped as he was very upset about it. I can't think
of a better way to lose market share than Unity so if that is what is wanted
they should be very successful.
--
73 de N7PSV aka Pastor JW <n>< PDGA# 35276
http://the-inner-circle.org
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the_original_inner_circle
http://h.webring.com/hub?ring=universalministr
Basil Chupin
What I don't understand is why you had to move him back to XP when there
are other sensible Linux distros which use intelligent desktop
environments other than Gnome or unity such as KDE, xfce and others?
Should have shifted him to openSUSE with KDE.
BC
--
The vulgar crowd always is taken by appearances, and the world consists chiefly of the vulgar.
Niccolo Machiavelli
Ric Moore
> On Tuesday, March 13, 2012 5:23:56 pm Gerhard Magnus wrote:
>> As a newcomer to Ubuntu 11.10 (from Fedora 14, the last of its line to
>> run without problems) I'm still trying to adjust to the Unity desktop.
>> (By the way, is it correct to call Unity a desktop, equivalent to the
>> old Big Two of Gnome and KDE?) I'm getting more comfortable working with
>> that Mac-like bar at the top of my screen and have installed a
>> familiar-looking taskbar (Panel Tint2) at the bottom so I can easily
>> switch between windows. But the complete absence of menus (except for
>> the short one I get clicking on the upper righthand corner) has me
>> wondering if I'm missing some basic difference between old and new
>> desktops; maybe not as big as a paradigm shift, but still something
>> different about how this sort of interface is supposed to work. Is using
>> some customized version of the panel on the left, or else clicking on
>> the "Dash" button and then typing at least part of the program name
>> supposed to replace familiar menus like "Applications", "Places", and
>> "System"? What was the motivation here for getting rid of menus? I can
>> live without them, but I'd sure like to know why they left in the first
>> place!
Windows appears to be doing the very same thing, so I submit that some
lawyers threatened a patent dispute and that one of the conditions to
quietly settle it was that everyone shut up about it. As mad as it has
made both the Windows and Linux camps, SOMEONE didn't want the negative
press and the ire of the users, plus the benefit of the users being mad
at their present distro, instead of who-ever-THEY-are. It fits nicely as
a possible explanation. I'd point the finger at whoever still has drop
down menus for their users. Go get 'em.
> I don't know what the motivation was but so far I have lost two of my users
> because of it. One said, and I quote, "If I have to go through all this crap
> to start a program, I'll just go back to windoze". So I had to load XP back
> on his computers. Kinda sucks but I can't blame him. I doubt I'll get him
> back even after Unity is dumped as he was very upset about it. I can't think
> of a better way to lose market share than Unity so if that is what is wanted
> they should be very successful.
I have to ask, why didn't you install the XFCE desktop for your user
instead, to "sin no more", Pastor??
To paraphrase "... I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a
mustard seed, you can say to this desktop, 'Move from Unity to XFCE' and
it will move." ... <grins> Ric
--
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
http://linuxcounter.net/user/44256.html
Pastor JW
> On 03/13/2012 10:46 PM, Pastor JW wrote:
> > On Tuesday, March 13, 2012 5:23:56 pm Gerhard Magnus wrote:
> Windows appears to be doing the very same thing, so I submit that some
> lawyers threatened a patent dispute and that one of the conditions to
> quietly settle it was that everyone shut up about it. As mad as it has
> made both the Windows and Linux camps, SOMEONE didn't want the negative
> press and the ire of the users, plus the benefit of the users being mad
> at their present distro, instead of who-ever-THEY-are. It fits nicely as
> a possible explanation. I'd point the finger at whoever still has drop
> down menus for their users. Go get 'em.
Quite plausible but if you are going to lose your users how did it gain you
anything? We had menu systems in Commodore 64s and Amiga and that was what?
30 some odd years ago?
> > I don't know what the motivation was but so far I have lost two of my
> > users because of it. One said, and I quote, "If I have to go through
> > all this crap to start a program, I'll just go back to windoze". So I
> > had to load XP back on his computers. Kinda sucks but I can't blame
> > him. I doubt I'll get him back even after Unity is dumped as he was
> > very upset about it. I can't think of a better way to lose market share
> > than Unity so if that is what is wanted they should be very successful.
>
> I have to ask, why didn't you install the XFCE desktop for your user
> instead, to "sin no more", Pastor??
I did try to talk him into it but my error was in telling him it was using the
same Ubuntu operating system. He was afraid the rest of the desktops would
follow suit. ...and/or interfere with the stable operation. He was a business
user with a five machine office. Oh, and he also found out he could run Open
Office in XP. That was another thing he was upset about as Libre screwed up his
Open Office setup.
--
73 de N7PSV aka Pastor JW <n>< PDGA# 35276
http://the-inner-circle.org
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the_original_inner_circle
http://h.webring.com/hub?ring=universalministr
--
Mike Kupfer
> Is using some customized version of the panel on the left, or
> else clicking on the "Dash" button and then typing at least part of
> the program name supposed to replace familiar menus like
> "Applications", "Places", and "System"? What was the motivation here
> for getting rid of menus? I can live without them, but I'd sure like
> to know why they left in the first place!
I can't answer the question about intent, but I do have a few hints I
hope you'll find useful. (This is the result of a few hours of playing
with Unity over the past few months.)
First, it's very easy to customizer the Launcher, at least for standard
applications. Once you have an application running, right-click its
icon in the Launcher and select "Keep in launcher". Similarly, for
icons you don't care about, deselect "Keep in launcher". You can
rearrange the applications by dragging the icons around. (You
need to do a short horizontal drag first, then you can move the icon
vertically.)
For applications that aren't accessible via the Dash, you can create a
.desktop file using the gnome-desktop-item-edit command. Put the
.desktop file in a permanent place in your home folder. Then drag it
into the Launcher (via Nautilus). (Alas, I don't remember which
package contains gnome-desktop-item-edit.) If you put the .desktop file
in $HOME/.local/share/applications, you'll also be able to run it
from the GNOME shell.
Second, if you want to browse the applications in a structured manner,
bring up the Dash, click on More Apps, then click on "Filter results"
(upper right corner). The filter categories sort of correspond to the
different submenus you might see under an Applications menu. I can't
remember if you need the unity-lens-applications package for this.
Third, with respect to no longer having the Places menu, you can still
create and access bookmarks via Nautilus. And if you have the
unity-lens-files package installed, the Dash will have an icon along the
bottom row that looks like a blank file icon (with the corner folded
over). Clicking on that will give you recently accessed files, as well
as other file choices. And I just noticed, the files lens also has some
filters (age of the file, size, type).
best regards,
mike
Chris Green
> Gerhard Magnus wrote:
>
> > Is using some customized version of the panel on the left, or else
> > clicking on the "Dash" button and then typing at least part of the
> > program name supposed to replace familiar menus like "Applications",
> > "Places", and "System"?
>
> Yep. The thinking is that it's quicker and easier to hit the Windows
> key then type a few characters and hit enter than to navigate menus.
> Opinions differ but I definitely find it faster and easier.
>
--
Chris Green
Patrick Asselman
> On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 12:40:19AM +0000, Avi Greenbury wrote:
>> Gerhard Magnus wrote:
>>
>> > Is using some customized version of the panel on the left, or else
>> > clicking on the "Dash" button and then typing at least part of the
>> > program name supposed to replace familiar menus like
>> "Applications",
>> > "Places", and "System"?
>>
>> Yep. The thinking is that it's quicker and easier to hit the Windows
>> key then type a few characters and hit enter than to navigate menus.
>> Opinions differ but I definitely find it faster and easier.
>>
> Rather like the command line in fact! :-)
>
> --
> Chris Green
It's only quicker if you already know what the applications are called,
i.e. if you use them a lot. Application names often have no relationship
whatsoever with the task at hand. So you still need a menu structure for
people who are unfamiliar with the application names. (Why do you think
the Application Launcher was added to OSX recently, even though
Spotlight works fine?).
Patrick Asselman
Chris Green
> On Wed, 14 Mar 2012 11:51:55 +0000, Chris Green wrote:
> >On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 12:40:19AM +0000, Avi Greenbury wrote:
> >>Gerhard Magnus wrote:
> >>
> >>> Is using some customized version of the panel on the left, or else
> >>> clicking on the "Dash" button and then typing at least part of the
> >>> program name supposed to replace familiar menus like
> >>"Applications",
> >>> "Places", and "System"?
> >>
> >>Yep. The thinking is that it's quicker and easier to hit the Windows
> >>key then type a few characters and hit enter than to navigate menus.
> >>Opinions differ but I definitely find it faster and easier.
> >>
> >Rather like the command line in fact! :-)
> >
> >--
> >Chris Green
>
> It's only quicker if you already know what the applications are
> called, i.e. if you use them a lot. Application names often have no
> relationship whatsoever with the task at hand. So you still need a
> menu structure for people who are unfamiliar with the application
> names. (Why do you think the Application Launcher was added to OSX
> recently, even though Spotlight works fine?).
>
I was rather pointing to the fact that the way Unity works seems to be
tending back towards the command line.
I do use the command line a lot and, when I can't remember/find the name
of a command I use "man -k" to help.
--
Chris Green
Liam Proven
> As a newcomer to Ubuntu 11.10 (from Fedora 14, the last of its line to run
> without problems) I'm still trying to adjust to the Unity desktop. (By the
> way, is it correct to call Unity a desktop, equivalent to the old Big Two of
> Gnome and KDE?) I'm getting more comfortable working with that Mac-like bar
> at the top of my screen and have installed a familiar-looking taskbar (Panel
> Tint2) at the bottom so I can easily switch between windows. But the
> complete absence of menus (except for the short one I get clicking on the
> upper righthand corner) has me wondering if I'm missing some basic
> difference between old and new desktops; maybe not as big as a paradigm
> shift, but still something different about how this sort of interface is
> supposed to work. Is using some customized version of the panel on the left,
> or else clicking on the "Dash" button and then typing at least part of the
> program name supposed to replace familiar menus like "Applications",
> "Places", and "System"? What was the motivation here for getting rid of
> menus? I can live without them, but I'd sure like to know why they left in
> the first place!
I was going to ask which menus had disappeared or gone, because I
could not tell what you meant, but from others' responses in this
thread, it has become clear. You meant the application-launch menus.
Others have pointed out alternative mechanisms for this.
It does sound to me, I have to say, like you are not in fact adjusting
to Unity but are instead trying to turn Unity into a Windows-like
desktop with a taskbar and launch menus. That is like trying to turn a
car into a boat. You might be able to do it, but it is a big job and
will result in a very poor-quality boat.
For instance, there is no point in adding a taskbar to Unity. It has a
perfectly good task switcher already - the Launcher, down the
left-hand side. Now, you have two. This is hardly an improvement!
If you want a two-panel desktop with a taskbar and launch menus, then
don't try to force Unity into that mould - just install Xfce, or
better still, wipe and reinstall with Xubuntu. It is very readily
customised into that form.
I suggest that you ensure that you have a separate /home partition so
that you can, if you wish, experiment with different distros and
desktops with greater ease in future.
--
Liam Proven • Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
Email: lpr...@cix.co.uk • GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
MSN: lpr...@hotmail.com • Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 • Cell: +44 7939-087884
Dave Woyciesjes
> On Wed, 14 Mar 2012 11:51:55 +0000, Chris Green wrote:
>> On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 12:40:19AM +0000, Avi Greenbury wrote:
>>> Gerhard Magnus wrote:
>>>
>>> > Is using some customized version of the panel on the left, or else
>>> > clicking on the "Dash" button and then typing at least part of the
>>> > program name supposed to replace familiar menus like "Applications",
>>> > "Places", and "System"?
>>>
>>> Yep. The thinking is that it's quicker and easier to hit the Windows
>>> key then type a few characters and hit enter than to navigate menus.
>>> Opinions differ but I definitely find it faster and easier.
>>>
>> Rather like the command line in fact! :-)
>>
>> --
>> Chris Green
>
> It's only quicker if you already know what the applications are called,
> i.e. if you use them a lot. Application names often have no relationship
> whatsoever with the task at hand. So you still need a menu structure for
> people who are unfamiliar with the application names. (Why do you think
> the Application Launcher was added to OSX recently, even though
> Spotlight works fine?).
>
> Patrick Asselman
>
I'm not sure if this applies to Dash & Unity, but in Gnome3/Shell, the
apps have, meta tags (?) associated with them, so if you type a word
related to what you are looking for, it should come up anyway. E.g.
typing rdesk shows Remotedesktop client, even though rdesk is not in the
app name...
--
--- Dave Woyciesjes
--- ICQ# 905818
--- AIM - woyciesjes
--- CompTIA A+ Certified IT Tech - http://certification.comptia.org/
--- HDI Certified Support Center Analyst - http://www.ThinkHDI.com/
Registered Linux user number 464583
"Computers have lots of memory but no imagination."
"The problem with troubleshooting is that trouble shoots back."
- from some guy on the internet.
Alexander Skwar (ML)
> I'm not sure if this applies to Dash & Unity, but in Gnome3/Shell, the
> apps have, meta tags (?) associated with them, so if you type a word
> related to what you are looking for, it should come up anyway. E.g.
> typing rdesk shows Remotedesktop client, even though rdesk is not in the
> app name...
Hm. Don't know if it's really the case, but the executable
of the App "Remote Desktop" is called "rdesktop".
Alexander
--
☄ Google+ ↣ http://plus.skwar.me ☄
☛ Lifestream (Twitter, …) ↣ http://sup.skwar.me ☛
⚰ Twitter: @alexs77 ↣ http://twitter.com/alexs77 ⚰
☞ Chat (Jabber/Google Talk) ↣ a.s...@gmail.com ☞
Colin Law
<alexanders.mail...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Am 14.03.2012 16:28, schrieb Dave Woyciesjes:
>
>
>> I'm not sure if this applies to Dash & Unity, but in Gnome3/Shell, the
>> apps have, meta tags (?) associated with them, so if you type a word
>> related to what you are looking for, it should come up anyway. E.g.
>> typing rdesk shows Remotedesktop client, even though rdesk is not in the
>> app name...
>
>
> Hm. Don't know if it's really the case, but the executable
> of the App "Remote Desktop" is called "rdesktop".
In the Dash in Precise if I type "remote" or vinagre (which I think is
the executable in Ubuntu) then I see Remote Desktop Viewer. Also
typing "browser" shows both Chromium and Firefox. So provided the
meta data is setup correctly then it is not necessary to know the name
of an app, just an idea about what it is supposed to do.
Colin
Dave Woyciesjes
> Am 14.03.2012 16:28, schrieb Dave Woyciesjes:
>
>> I'm not sure if this applies to Dash & Unity, but in Gnome3/Shell, the
>> apps have, meta tags (?) associated with them, so if you type a word
>> related to what you are looking for, it should come up anyway. E.g.
>> typing rdesk shows Remotedesktop client, even though rdesk is not in the
>> app name...
>
> Hm. Don't know if it's really the case, but the executable
> of the App "Remote Desktop" is called "rdesktop".
>
>
>
> Alexander
I recall reading somewhere that the app search function searches by
some sort of tags... Either way, my point is that the app search
function isn't so bad. I've grown to like it actually...
--
--- Dave Woyciesjes
--- ICQ# 905818
--- AIM - woyciesjes
--- CompTIA A+ Certified IT Tech - http://certification.comptia.org/
--- HDI Certified Support Center Analyst - http://www.ThinkHDI.com/
Registered Linux user number 464583
"Computers have lots of memory but no imagination."
"The problem with troubleshooting is that trouble shoots back."
- from some guy on the internet.
--
Ric Moore
I think it's the precursor to voice commands. Ric
--
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
http://linuxcounter.net/user/44256.html
--
Gerhard Magnus
Of course that's what's happening. You are one funny guy, Ric!
Ric Moore
Ha! Thanks! Just wait, I betcha I'm dead correct on this one. I just
hope we get it before Apple files a patent for talking computers and
some idiot at the patent office awards it to them. Ric
--
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
http://linuxcounter.net/user/44256.html
--
Basil Chupin
I wonder how it would act if it heard the voice command of, "Get
[stuffed]!"....... I'd like to be there to see what would happen :-D .
BC
--
The vulgar crowd always is taken by appearances, and the world consists chiefly of the vulgar.
Niccolo Machiavelli
Ric Moore
I can't wait! It'll be a howler, if nothing else. Imagine all of this
broken thread topic email being read back to you by your computer... and
you could assign Beavis to so and so, and Homer Simpson to another.
Hollywood would become wiped out, with that much entertainment for free
to be had. C'mon Ubuntu, bring it on! Ric
--
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
http://linuxcounter.net/user/44256.html
--
Kenny Martsolf
I can't wait! It'll be a howler, if nothing else. Imagine all of this broken thread topic email being read back to you by your computer... and you could assign Beavis to so and so, and Homer Simpson to another. Hollywood would become wiped out, with that much entertainment for free to be had. C'mon Ubuntu, bring it on! Ric
Ric Moore ✆ waywa...@gmail.com
Aaaahhhhh... That thought almost makes the day's events seem pleasant. I just worry that the voices would change in mid conversation. :)