Newbie query: Ubuntu vs openSUSE
Rameshwar Kr. Sharma
I really needed the suggestion of the people of this great mailing
list regarding the difference between the openSUSE and the Ubuntu
distributions, finding myself new in this world of Linux or Unix
(whatever you people call), I guess here people have nice experiences
and thus can make better points.
Best Regards.
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doug
> HELLO GUYS,
>
> I really needed the suggestion of the people of this great mailing
> list regarding the difference between the openSUSE and the Ubuntu
> distributions, finding myself new in this world of Linux or Unix
> (whatever you people call), I guess here people have nice experiences
> and thus can make better points.
>
> Best Regards.
>
You may find that one system is much more to your liking
than the other. However, be aware that there are a number
of desktop environments available. There might be more
for OpenSuse, I just don't know. There are some for
variations on Ubuntu, such a Xubuntu, Kubuntu, and even
Mint, which is a descendent, but not under Ubuntu control.
The "word" is that Gnome is on its way out, and something
like Unity will take its place. You may find you don't like
Unity--apparently a lot of folks don't. There were grumbles
about KDE when version 4 came out, but it's now up to (I
think) 4.8, and even since 4.5, it has been quite useable
and stable, and in some flavors, at least, is more user-
friendly to those who come from a Windows environment.
There are also "light" DTEs, like XFCE and LXDE which
you may be able to get on live CD for Suse and/or Ubuntu.
I haven't tried either one, so I just know they exist.
Good hunting!--doug
Rameshwar Kr. Sharma
> Why not get a live CD for each of the systems, and run them.
Well, this idea is good. I try that but since some issues of internet
here are, like poor speed, so wish to get the first download itself as
the one which is to be installed, this I would do though, but in your
opinion, I guess Ubuntu should be fine, of course, I understand that
these are Ubuntu mailing lists but was looking for some honest
suggestions, like you did, thanks.
> You may find that one system is much more to your liking
> than the other. However, be aware that there are a number
> of desktop environments available. There might be more
> for OpenSuse, I just don't know. There are some for
> variations on Ubuntu, such a Xubuntu, Kubuntu, and even
> Mint, which is a descendent, but not under Ubuntu control.
Okay, I assume (don't know much) that both - Ubuntu and openSUSE are
mature distributions. I explore the different desktops then.
> The "word" is that Gnome is on its way out, and something
> like Unity will take its place. You may find you don't like
> Unity--apparently a lot of folks don't. There were grumbles
> about KDE when version 4 came out, but it's now up to (I
> think) 4.8, and even since 4.5, it has been quite useable
> and stable, and in some flavors, at least, is more user-
> friendly to those who come from a Windows environment.
Why many folks have said that unity is not good? Is it having some
bugs or what? But no problems, I would see the other desktops too.
> There are also "light" DTEs, like XFCE and LXDE which
> you may be able to get on live CD for Suse and/or Ubuntu.
> I haven't tried either one, so I just know they exist.
So XFCE is also good, I assume, I would see both - LXDE and XFCE.
> Good hunting!--doug
Thanks.
Rameshwar Kr. Sharma
> Why not get a live CD for each of the systems, and run them.
> You may find that one system is much more to your liking
> than the other. However, be aware that there are a number
> of desktop environments available. There might be more
> for OpenSuse, I just don't know. There are some for
> variations on Ubuntu, such a Xubuntu, Kubuntu, and even
> Mint, which is a descendent, but not under Ubuntu control.
Well, it is to request to please point to point differentiate between
the two distros, if you can, just a request. Thanks.
Ric Moore
> On Fri, Dec 23, 2011 at 11:37 AM, doug<dmcga...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>> Why not get a live CD for each of the systems, and run them.
>> You may find that one system is much more to your liking
>> than the other. However, be aware that there are a number
>> of desktop environments available. There might be more
>> for OpenSuse, I just don't know. There are some for
>> variations on Ubuntu, such a Xubuntu, Kubuntu, and even
>> Mint, which is a descendent, but not under Ubuntu control.
>
> Well, it is to request to please point to point differentiate between
> the two distros, if you can, just a request. Thanks.
Heh, that's kinda like discussing religion and politics. It's usually
avoided. OpenSuse is rpm package based, and Ubuntu is deb package based.
Both offer pretty much the same software.
Doug gave you great advice. If you're not handy with cd burning or have
limited bandwidth, go to some place like on-disk.com and pay about $5 US
for each distro's live CD and try them out to see what YOU like. For old
and crusty machines Lubuntu is a good choice. I use Xubuntu as I like
the XFCE desktop. Or maybe you'll like Unity with the standard Ubuntu
install. It's hard for someone else to tell you what you'll like or why
you should install which version of which distribution. But, by golly,
you do have choices! Enjoy! Ric
--
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
http://linuxcounter.net/user/44256.html
James Freer
> On 12/23/2011 02:04 AM, Rameshwar Kr. Sharma wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 23, 2011 at 11:37 AM, doug<dmcga...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Why not get a live CD for each of the systems, and run them.
>>> You may find that one system is much more to your liking
>>> than the other. However, be aware that there are a number
>>> of desktop environments available. There might be more
>>> for OpenSuse, I just don't know. There are some for
>>> variations on Ubuntu, such a Xubuntu, Kubuntu, and even
>>> Mint, which is a descendent, but not under Ubuntu control.
>>
>>
>> Well, it is to request to please point to point differentiate between
>> the two distros, if you can, just a request. Thanks.
>
>
> Heh, that's kinda like discussing religion and politics. It's usually
> avoided. OpenSuse is rpm package based, and Ubuntu is deb package based.
> Both offer pretty much the same software.
>
> Doug gave you great advice. If you're not handy with cd burning or have
> limited bandwidth, go to some place like on-disk.com and pay about $5 US for
> each distro's live CD and try them out to see what YOU like. For old and
> crusty machines Lubuntu is a good choice. I use Xubuntu as I like the XFCE
> desktop. Or maybe you'll like Unity with the standard Ubuntu install. It's
> hard for someone else to tell you what you'll like or why you should install
> which version of which distribution. But, by golly, you do have choices!
> Enjoy! Ric
I am also a xubuntu user... although i switched from ubuntu before the
days of unity. I much prefer the minimal desktop and if you've limited
bandwidth it would be a good place to start. I used opensuse for a
short while and i don't like rpm distros as updates seem to take far
longer.
A linux distro is very much a pesonal choice. I look closely at the
package manager and "under the bonnet" which is where opensuse was
lacking imo. I'd read distrowatch and choose one of the beginner
friendly distros as opposed to say slackware or gentoo which is harder
to set up although a well established respected distro.
james
Jamie Paul Griffin
> On 12/23/2011 02:04 AM, Rameshwar Kr. Sharma wrote:
> >On Fri, Dec 23, 2011 at 11:37 AM, doug<dmcga...@optonline.net> wrote:
> >
> >>Why not get a live CD for each of the systems, and run them.
> >>You may find that one system is much more to your liking
> >>than the other. However, be aware that there are a number
> >>of desktop environments available. There might be more
> >>for OpenSuse, I just don't know. There are some for
> >>variations on Ubuntu, such a Xubuntu, Kubuntu, and even
> >>Mint, which is a descendent, but not under Ubuntu control.
> >
> >Well, it is to request to please point to point differentiate between
> >the two distros, if you can, just a request. Thanks.
>
> Heh, that's kinda like discussing religion and politics. It's
> usually avoided. OpenSuse is rpm package based, and Ubuntu is deb
> package based. Both offer pretty much the same software.
>
> Doug gave you great advice. If you're not handy with cd burning or
> have limited bandwidth, go to some place like on-disk.com and pay
> about $5 US for each distro's live CD and try them out to see what
> YOU like. For old and crusty machines Lubuntu is a good choice. I
> use Xubuntu as I like the XFCE desktop. Or maybe you'll like Unity
> with the standard Ubuntu install. It's hard for someone else to tell
> you what you'll like or why you should install which version of
> which distribution. But, by golly, you do have choices! Enjoy! Ric
Having tried OpenSuse I can say that Ubuntu is certainly the better choice, in my opinion. The package manager is superior and overall finish and quality is better. I remember I came across an article comparing the two where the author described YAST as "a pig" which made me laugh; and i'm afraid that based on my experiences at that time, I have to agree.
Ubuntu have designed their system with new Linux users in mind. You will have a really good system to learn on.
One thing you must consider when it comes to choosing a desktop environment is the hardware on which you will use Linux, especially the graphics hardware. The reason is that if you are using older hardware you might find that newer versions of KDE4 and Unity, for example, will be terribly slow and it could ruin your new experience. Please bare that in mind. XFCE4 has been designed to overcome some of those problems and so is more lightweight in terms of memory, etc.
Don't forget that many distributions provide the option to have discs sent to you by post. Some you may need to make a small donation, others will be free. You can then use the liveCD option or you could think about running them in a virtual environment, like Virtual Box or VMWare.
jamie.
Rameshwar Kr. Sharma
> Heh, that's kinda like discussing religion and politics. It's usually
> avoided. OpenSuse is rpm package based, and Ubuntu is deb package based.
> Both offer pretty much the same software.
> Doug gave you great advice. If you're not handy with cd burning or have
> limited bandwidth, go to some place like on-disk.com and pay about $5 US for
> each distro's live CD and try them out to see what YOU like. For old and
> crusty machines Lubuntu is a good choice. I use Xubuntu as I like the XFCE
> desktop. Or maybe you'll like Unity with the standard Ubuntu install. It's
> hard for someone else to tell you what you'll like or why you should install
> which version of which distribution. But, by golly, you do have choices!
> Enjoy! Ric
Thanks Ric, I really look into this matter.
Rameshwar Kr. Sharma
> I am also a xubuntu user... although i switched from ubuntu before the
> days of unity. I much prefer the minimal desktop and if you've limited
> bandwidth it would be a good place to start. I used opensuse for a
> short while and i don't like rpm distros as updates seem to take far
> longer.
Okk.
> A linux distro is very much a pesonal choice. I look closely at the
> package manager and "under the bonnet" which is where opensuse was
> lacking imo. I'd read distrowatch and choose one of the beginner
> friendly distros as opposed to say slackware or gentoo which is harder
> to set up although a well established respected distro.
Ok, thanks for your suggestions, I then guess, like Ric and Doug also
said, good is Ubuntu to go with, at least for a beginner, but when I
searched a little for Unity, this made me a little away from Ubuntu,
but as you say, I should definitely try out X or L Ubuntu.
Colin Law
<mathsre...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 23, 2011 at 1:29 PM, James Freer <jesseja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I am also a xubuntu user... although i switched from ubuntu before the
>> days of unity. I much prefer the minimal desktop and if you've limited
>> bandwidth it would be a good place to start. I used opensuse for a
>> short while and i don't like rpm distros as updates seem to take far
>> longer.
>
> Okk.
>
>> A linux distro is very much a pesonal choice. I look closely at the
>> package manager and "under the bonnet" which is where opensuse was
>> lacking imo. I'd read distrowatch and choose one of the beginner
>> friendly distros as opposed to say slackware or gentoo which is harder
>> to set up although a well established respected distro.
>
> Ok, thanks for your suggestions, I then guess, like Ric and Doug also
> said, good is Ubuntu to go with, at least for a beginner, but when I
> searched a little for Unity, this made me a little away from Ubuntu,
> but as you say, I should definitely try out X or L Ubuntu.
Don't reject Unity without giving it a good try. Many do like it but
as always those that object are more vociferous.
Colin
Rameshwar Kr. Sharma
<ja...@kontrol.kode5.net> wrote:
> Having tried OpenSuse I can say that Ubuntu is certainly the better choice, in my opinion. The package manager is superior and overall finish and quality is better. I remember I came across an article comparing the two where the author described YAST as "a pig" which made me laugh; and i'm afraid that based on my experiences at that time, I have to agree.
Okay I don't know, may be Yast is the package manager, but **how**
package manager of Ubuntu is better, can you please explain me a
little?
> Ubuntu have designed their system with new Linux users in mind. You will have a really good system to learn on.
Okk, then I must go with Ubuntu.
> One thing you must consider when it comes to choosing a desktop environment is the hardware on which you will use Linux, especially the graphics hardware. The reason is that if you are using older hardware you might find that newer versions of KDE4 and Unity, for example, will be terribly slow and it could ruin your new experience. Please bare that in mind. XFCE4 has been designed to overcome some of those problems and so is more lightweight in terms of memory, etc.
Okay, my hard ware is nether too old nor is extremely new, its in between.
> Don't forget that many distributions provide the option to have discs sent to you by post. Some you may need to make a small donation, others will be free. You can then use the liveCD option or you could think about running them in a virtual environment, like Virtual Box or VMWare.
Okk, I didn't know this fact, I try then.
Rameshwar Kr. Sharma
> Don't reject Unity without giving it a good try. Many do like it but
> as always those that object are more vociferous.
Well, I would try but I don't why some people abused it, might be vociferous.
Colin Law
<mathsre...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 23, 2011 at 5:01 PM, Colin Law <cla...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>> Don't reject Unity without giving it a good try. Many do like it but
>> as always those that object are more vociferous.
>
> Well, I would try but I don't why some people abused it, might be vociferous.
People who are happy with something just get on with life and do not
shout about it. Those that are unhappy are more likely to complain
loudly.
Colin
Jamie Paul Griffin
> On Fri, Dec 23, 2011 at 3:52 PM, Jamie Paul Griffin
> <ja...@kontrol.kode5.net> wrote:
> Okay I don't know, may be Yast is the package manager, but **how**
> package manager of Ubuntu is better, can you please explain me a
> little?
from doing so are massive.
> Okk, then I must go with Ubuntu.
Personally I think you should. You won't be disappointed. I have tried many and have settled on Ubuntu for my mail and webserver.
> Okay, my hard ware is nether too old nor is extremely new, its in between.
Try to find out as much as you can about the capabilities of your hardware. Again, read as much as possible. If you decide to try a more raw version of UNIX in the future that requires more understanding to set up, Xorg for example can be tricky if you need to do any manual configuration then having researched your hardware will provide a great advantage.
> Okk, I didn't know this fact, I try then.
Good. Virtual OS installations provide a great way to test a system and explore it without causing problems.
jamie.
Richard Owlett
> On Fri, Dec 23, 2011 at 3:52 PM, Jamie Paul Griffin
> <ja...@kontrol.kode5.net> wrote:
>
>> Having tried OpenSuse I can say that Ubuntu is certainly the better choice, in my opinion. The package manager is superior and overall finish and quality is better. I remember I came across an article comparing the two where the author described YAST as "a pig" which made me laugh; and i'm afraid that based on my experiences at that time, I have to agree.
>
> Okay I don't know, may be Yast is the package manager, but **how**
> package manager of Ubuntu is better, can you please explain me a
> little?
>
>> Ubuntu have designed their system with new Linux users in mind. You will have a really good system to learn on.
>
> Okk, then I must go with Ubuntu.
>
>> One thing you must consider when it comes to choosing a desktop environment is the hardware on which you will use Linux, especially the graphics hardware. The reason is that if you are using older hardware you might find that newer versions of KDE4 and Unity, for example, will be terribly slow and it could ruin your new experience. Please bare that in mind. XFCE4 has been designed to overcome some of those problems and so is more lightweight in terms of memory, etc.
>
> Okay, my hard ware is nether too old nor is extremely new, its in between.
CAUTION: You have mentioned that you have a "slow" internet
connection. "slow" is a vague term. If "slow" is due to
using a dial up connection, be aware that the Live CD does
no have an accessible dialer although there are apparently
several available in the repository. (Verified on version
10.10, don't know about later versions)
Rameshwar Kr. Sharma
> People who are happy with something just get on with life and do not
> shout about it. Those that are unhappy are more likely to complain
> loudly.
That's really a truth you told, thanks for it.
Rameshwar Kr. Sharma
<ja...@kontrol.kode5.net> wrote:
> Yes, YAST is the package manager for OpenSuse. This would be a good opportunity for you to take some time to read about the two package managers and how they work, rather than just excepting the opinions of myself and other list members. You should read about both distributions as much as you can. It is tempting to just install, try and then do the same for another but really if you're going to start learning Linux and UNIX seriously then you must read as much as possible. The benefits
> from doing so are massive.
> Personally I think you should. You won't be disappointed. I have tried many and have settled on Ubuntu for my mail and webserver.
> Try to find out as much as you can about the capabilities of your hardware. Again, read as much as possible. If you decide to try a more raw version of UNIX in the future that requires more understanding to set up, Xorg for example can be tricky if you need to do any manual configuration then having researched your hardware will provide a great advantage.
> Good. Virtual OS installations provide a great way to test a system and explore it without causing problems.
Well thanks for the suggestions. I would read but right now can one
tell me the difference between the two package managers :- Yast and
Ubuntu's in general terms?
Thanks in advance.
Rameshwar Kr. Sharma
> CAUTION: You have mentioned that you have a "slow" internet connection.
I meant a slow broadband connection, ;) P.
Jamie Paul Griffin
> On Fri, Dec 23, 2011 at 5:26 PM, Jamie Paul Griffin
> <ja...@kontrol.kode5.net> wrote:
> Well thanks for the suggestions. I would read but right now can one
> tell me the difference between the two package managers :- Yast and
> Ubuntu's in general terms?
Hans Muecke
> I really needed the suggestion of the people of this great mailing
> list regarding the difference between the openSUSE and the Ubuntu
> distributions, finding myself new in this world of Linux or Unix
> (whatever you people call), I guess here people have nice experiences
> and thus can make better points.
I was on openSUSE before I changed to Ubuntu and since I use(d) KDE on both
distros I actually can't see much difference between both.
However ... the reason to switch to Ubuntu was, that on openSUSE - at least on
my end - no upgrade went without some major trouble.
--
Talk to you later ... Hans (259 to go)
2011/12/23 12:50
EDDS 231250Z 21005KT 9999 BKN030 07/05 Q1022 NOSIG
Billie Walsh
If your migrating from a Windows system the KDE desktop [ Kubuntu ] or
XFCE desktop [ Xubuntu ] will be more familiar to you and may make the
transition a bit easier. In Ubuntu the Gnome, and possibly Unity [ I
haven't really looked into Unity myself ], are more MAC like in their
setup.
As I read the list it seems that Unity is somewhat of a major departure
from Gnome and was pushed out to the public quite early in development.
You must understand that the developers are much more limited in what
they can test on than the community at large. It's by pushing out to the
public and the public filing bug reports that the interface gets "fixed"
and matures much faster. When KDE4.x was first pushed out it was very
immature and caused a lot of issues. As time has gone by it has matured
almost to the point KDE3.x was when phased out, and keeps getting
better. Given time Unity will mature and get better.
Asking which system [ Ubuntu or Suse ] is better is, as they say in the
USA, like asking which is better, a Ford or a Chevrolet. Both are very
good and the choice comes down to personal preference.
Many years ago in another life I worked in a garage. A guy came in and
as his car was being worked on he made the remark that he loved his
Pontiac Ventura but there was no way he would ever drive a Chevrolet.
Pontiac was a MUCH better car than a Chevrolet. I didn't have the heart
to tell him that his much beloved Pontiac Ventura was just a rebadged
Chevrolet Nova and even had a Chevrolet motor in it.
When you get right down to the guts of it all Linux is Linux, like
Chevrolet and Pontiac are/were both General Motors products and shared
much. The part that makes for a different user experience is the bells
and whistles that are added on. Some people like some bells and whistles
better than they like others.
--
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain
the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the
government lest it come to dominate our lives and interests”.
- Patrick Henry -
_ _... ..._ _
_._ ._ ..... ._.. ... .._
Rameshwar Kr. Sharma
<ubunt...@filderstadtweather.eu> wrote:
> I was on openSUSE before I changed to Ubuntu and since I use(d) KDE on both
> distros I actually can't see much difference between both.
> However ... the reason to switch to Ubuntu was, that on openSUSE - at least on
> my end - no upgrade went without some major trouble.
Okk.
Rameshwar Kr. Sharma
> If your migrating from a Windows system the KDE desktop [ Kubuntu ] or
> XFCE desktop [ Xubuntu ] will be more familiar to you and may make the
> transition a bit easier. In Ubuntu the Gnome, and possibly Unity [ I
> haven't really looked into Unity myself ], are more MAC like in their
> setup.
Okk.
> As I read the list it seems that Unity is somewhat of a major departure from
> Gnome and was pushed out to the public quite early in development. You must
> understand that the developers are much more limited in what they can test
> on than the community at large. It's by pushing out to the public and the
> public filing bug reports that the interface gets "fixed" and matures much
> faster. When KDE4.x was first pushed out it was very immature and caused a
> lot of issues. As time has gone by it has matured almost to the point KDE3.x
> was when phased out, and keeps getting better. Given time Unity will mature
> and get better.
Okk, true that the users are the real lives and can make it to live,
the distributions, they correct the things, nice, correct.
> Asking which system [ Ubuntu or Suse ] is better is, as they say in the USA,
> like asking which is better, a Ford or a Chevrolet. Both are very good and
> the choice comes down to personal preference.
;)-, nice analogy.
> Many years ago in another life I worked in a garage. A guy came in and as
> his car was being worked on he made the remark that he loved his Pontiac
> Ventura but there was no way he would ever drive a Chevrolet. Pontiac was a
> MUCH better car than a Chevrolet. I didn't have the heart to tell him that
> his much beloved Pontiac Ventura was just a rebadged Chevrolet Nova and even
> had a Chevrolet motor in it.
;)-
> When you get right down to the guts of it all Linux is Linux, like Chevrolet
> and Pontiac are/were both General Motors products and shared much. The part
> that makes for a different user experience is the bells and whistles that
> are added on. Some people like some bells and whistles better than they like
> others.
Nice explanation, thanks for it, could you also in a similar fashion
elaborate the difference between the excellent ubuntu package manager
and than of openSUSE for information point of view.
Liam Proven
<mathsre...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 23, 2011 at 3:52 PM, Jamie Paul Griffin
> <ja...@kontrol.kode5.net> wrote:
>
>> Having tried OpenSuse I can say that Ubuntu is certainly the better choice, in my opinion. The package manager is superior and overall finish and quality is better. I remember I came across an article comparing the two where the author described YAST as "a pig" which made me laugh; and i'm afraid that based on my experiences at that time, I have to agree.
>
> Okay I don't know, may be Yast is the package manager, but **how**
> package manager of Ubuntu is better, can you please explain me a
> little?
SUSE is an old distro, dating back 15y or so. It predates home
broadband. Its original unique selling point was that it came with all
the software you would ever need, on multiple CDs, then later on many
CDs + a DVD, then on multiple DVDs.
It also has good, rich, complete system admin tools, notably YAST.
YAST stands for Yet Another Setup Tool and was originally the
installer. Now, YAST2 is also the main point of control for your
system - adding and removing users, configuring hardware, adding and
removing software, updating, etc.
It is much more than just a package management system.
SUSE was for a long time based on KDE. Later it adopted GNOME too and
the company bought Ximian, one of the main GNOME software development
houses. It also supports lots of other distros.
SUSE is now owned by Novell, which in turn is owned by Attachmate, 2
big American companies. It has a strong corporate focus with expensive
corporate versions with support contracts.
SUSE has signed a pact with Microsoft which means it can use the
Windows-like KDE desktop without fear of being sued for patent
infringement, so since the announcement of GNOME 3, SUSE announced it
was returning to its KDE-centric roots.
SUSE is based on RPM, the Red Hat Package Manager. It is easy to use
but does not feature automatic dependency resolution - when you
install a piece of software, it is up to you to install all the
extras, the libraries and things, that it depends on. YAST tries to
automate this for you but in my experience it is patchy and often
fails.
It's good, but it's big, complex and relatively slow, in my personal
experience. It hearkens back to the days of the 1990s when you had
thousands of choices and decisions to make.
Ubuntu is much newer. It is about 7y old. It's based on Debian, which
is the hacker's distro of choice, but polished and made much easier.
Debian is even older than SUSE but it is notoriously complicated and
unfriendly, although it is much better these days. Ubuntu is Debian
simplified for non-techies.
Ubuntu is small and simple. It comes with 1 best choice of app for all
the main tasks - 1 office suite, 1 media player, 1 web browser, etc.
SUSE offers dozens of alternatives. Ubuntu has the alternatives too
but it doesn't ask you - the default install comes on just 1 CD and
contains 1 example of each app. SUSE asks you to choose, which is
harder if you don't know enough to decide.
Ubuntu uses the Debian packaging system, DEB and APT-GET. This is
unarguably the best and most sophisticated system for any Unix and is
widely copied but never bettered. It pioneered automatic recursive
depenency resolution, meaning that APT figures out all the libraries
and things all your programs need and installs *and updates* them for
you automatically. SUSE tries to replicate this with YAST but it's not
as good. Red Hat tries with YUM, Mandriva with URPMI, but none are
even close, IMHO. Apt-get wins, hands down. The theory is that once
you install you need never reinstall as Apt will update your whole OS
for you - indefinitely.
Ubuntu offers few choices of desktop or tools, but everything is there
in its online repositories if you want to experiment as you learn
more.
Ubuntu is based on GNOME and now the in-house developed Unity shell on
top of GNOME. Some people don't like GNOME. Some favour KDE, or other
alternatives such as Xfce or LXDE. Canonical, Ubuntu's backers,
actively encourage these communities to create their own "remixes" of
Ubuntu with different desktops and sets of apps. For instance,
Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Lubuntu and so on. Some - the ones with "-buntu" in
their name - are officially sanctioned, but the main "real" Ubuntu is
the one with nothing else on its name. Some of the remixes are pretty
good but the most polished and complete, and the best-supported, is
real Ubuntu. Some 3rd party tools and apps may not work on the
remixes. For the best experience, stay with the "real thing".
In summary:
Ubuntu: relatively small, modern, simple, streamlined. Very easy and polished.
SUSE: big, very capable, quite complex, many many options. Good admin
tools but software management inferior, as is that of all the
RPM-based distros.
--
Liam Proven • Info & profile: http://www.google.com/profiles/lproven
Email: lpr...@cix.co.uk • GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lpr...@gmail.com
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 • Cell: +44 7939-087884 • Fax: + 44 870-9151419
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Johnny
disable ipv6 thing to get on the Internet with Firefox. I have 3 PCs and
have do do it on all. I did write this but if you try something other
that Ubuntu 11.10 you might want it handy. You can do a config:about and
disable there but that only helps Firefox. I like unity. But I use
unity2 better than Gnome. Just me.
Merry Christmas and God Bless Johnny3 65+++
On 12/15/2011 05:56 PM, Greg Pelly wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have HBase installed on a a Ubuntu 11.04 box. It's having problems and
> they are due to the fact that ipv6 is enabled, the advice is to disable
> ipv6. The method of disabling appears to be adding the following three
> lines to sysctl.conf:
>
> ***net.ipv6.conf.all.disable_ipv6 = 1*
> *net.ipv6.conf.default.disable_ipv6 = 1*
> *net.ipv6.conf.lo.disable_ipv6 = 1
>
>
Easier way to do this is to pass the kernel a parameter to disable ipv6
on bootup. To do that, edit /etc/default/grub and add
"ipv6.disable_ipv6=1" on the GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT line so it looks
similar to the following:
GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet splash ipv6.disable_ipv6=1"
Save the file and then run "sudo update-grub" to update grub.cfg and
generate new initramfs images. Reboot and ipv6 should be disabled on all
interfaces.
--
Craig White
> HELLO GUYS,
>
> I really needed the suggestion of the people of this great mailing
> list regarding the difference between the openSUSE and the Ubuntu
> distributions, finding myself new in this world of Linux or Unix
> (whatever you people call), I guess here people have nice experiences
> and thus can make better points.
I was feeling somewhat sympathetic for you when you asked sort of the
same thing on fedora-list and George harangued you for thinking that you
had already done this very same thing as user LinuxIsOne...
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/users/2011-December/410414.html
But now that I realize that on the above, you dissed Ubuntu and come
back 3 days later and ask the Ubuntu list the same thing, then it's
clear that you are just a stupid troll.
Rather unsurprisingly, the answers here on the Ubuntu list pretty much
match those you got from fedora-list and I didn't check, but I suppose
you pretty much did the same thing on some suse list too.
Knowing how you just waste everyone's time on various lists, I'm not
sure why anyone would want to actually answer any of your questions... I
know I certainly won't.
Craig
--
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sdavmor
[snip all the well-written well-thought out response]
> In summary:
>
> Ubuntu: relatively small, modern, simple, streamlined. Very easy
> andpolished.
>
> SUSE: big, very capable, quite complex, many many options. Good
> admin tools but software management inferior, as is that of all
> the RPM-based distros.
That's an excellent summary you've provided, Liam.
--
Cheers, SDM -- a 21st Century Schizoid Man
Systems Theory project website: http://systemstheory.net
find us on MySpace, GarageBand, Reverb Nation, Last FM, CDBaby
free MP3s of Systems Theory, Mike Dickson & Greg Amov music at
http://mikedickson.org.uk
Ric Moore
> Well thanks for the suggestions. I would read but right now can one
> tell me the difference between the two package managers :- Yast and
> Ubuntu's in general terms?
We're getting to the point of beating a dead horse now. What part of
trying it out are you missing out on?? If YOU like it, it's good. If you
don't like it, don't use it. EOL. You asked a question, you got answers
to try. Don't ask more questions while ignoring the previous answers, or
you'll start making people slow to respond you or worse, add you to
their junk filters. Better yet, use google. But, trolling for "us versus
them", is not considered a good thing, as I pointed out before. We don't
do that. Ric
--
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
http://linuxcounter.net/user/44256.html
--
Ric Moore
> On 12/23/2011 08:07 AM, Liam Proven wrote:
>
> [snip all the well-written well-thought out response]
>
>> In summary:
>>
>> Ubuntu: relatively small, modern, simple, streamlined. Very easy
>> andpolished.
>>
>> SUSE: big, very capable, quite complex, many many options. Good
>> admin tools but software management inferior, as is that of all
>> the RPM-based distros.
>
> That's an excellent summary you've provided, Liam.
Liam, somehow you're coming off dissing rpm, which I'm sure wasn't your
intent. Ric
--
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
http://linuxcounter.net/user/44256.html
--
doug
> On 12/23/2011 01:49 PM, sdavmor wrote:
>> On 12/23/2011 08:07 AM, Liam Proven wrote:
>>
>> [snip all the well-written well-thought out response]
>>
>>> In summary:
>>>
>>> Ubuntu: relatively small, modern, simple, streamlined. Very easy
>>> andpolished.
>>>
>>> SUSE: big, very capable, quite complex, many many options. Good
>>> admin tools but software management inferior, as is that of all
>>> the RPM-based distros.
>>
>> That's an excellent summary you've provided, Liam.
>
> Liam, somehow you're coming off dissing rpm, which I'm sure wasn't
> your intent. Ric
>
in Mint, and
I think it's a very nice, usable program. I don't like YAST, and I
don't care for apt-get, since
you need the filename ahead of time with apt-get. Synaptic provides a
nice list, along
with a search function.
--doug
Liam Proven
> On 12/23/2011 08:07 AM, Liam Proven wrote:
>
> [snip all the well-written well-thought out response]
>
>
>> In summary:
>>
>> Ubuntu: relatively small, modern, simple, streamlined. Very easy
>> andpolished.
>>
>> SUSE: big, very capable, quite complex, many many options. Good
>> admin tools but software management inferior, as is that of all
>> the RPM-based distros.
>
>
> That's an excellent summary you've provided, Liam.
Many thanks for the comments. :¬)
--
Liam Proven • Info & profile: http://www.google.com/profiles/lproven
Email: lpr...@cix.co.uk • GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lpr...@gmail.com
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 • Cell: +44 7939-087884 • Fax: + 44 870-9151419
AIM/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven • MSN: lpr...@hotmail.com • ICQ: 73187508
--
Liam Proven
> On 12/23/2011 01:49 PM, sdavmor wrote:
>>
>> On 12/23/2011 08:07 AM, Liam Proven wrote:
>>
>> [snip all the well-written well-thought out response]
>>
>>> In summary:
>>>
>>> Ubuntu: relatively small, modern, simple, streamlined. Very easy
>>> andpolished.
>>>
>>> SUSE: big, very capable, quite complex, many many options. Good
>>> admin tools but software management inferior, as is that of all
>>> the RPM-based distros.
>>
>>
>> That's an excellent summary you've provided, Liam.
>
>
> Liam, somehow you're coming off dissing rpm, which I'm sure wasn't your
> intent.
Well, actually...
I used RPM-based distros for many years. Red Hat, Caldera (as we've
discussed on the Bikeshed list) and then SUSE. I also used to review
Linux distros for various magazines, including PC Pro, Personal
Computer World and others - so at that time, in the late 1990s, I was
familiar with pretty much all of them.
At the time, the choice was fairly stark - user friendliness, distros
that were easy to install and to use, which were feature-complete and
friendly - mostly based on RPM; or hardcore hacker distros, or ones
that were commercial or somewhat limited; in many cases, based on
.DEB.
Ubuntu was /the/ distro that changed this. It gave Debian the
friendliness and simplicity that it lacked, the completeness that
Stormix didn't offer, the simplicity that you had to pay for with
Corel or Xandros or Libranet. It didn't and doesn't give the
sophisticated, complete, setup and admin tools that SUSE or something
did. Ubuntu won't help you find the IRQ of your graphics card, or let
you set your preferred colour depth on the screen, or install the
driver you want for your sound card - it assumes that this is
automatic on all modern hardware. And mostly, it is.
But Ubuntu takes .deb and apt-get and makes it easy and simple.
And, yes, after /considerable/ experience with RPM in both
research/testing and commercial environments, compared with the
simplicity and power and flexibility of apt-get, yes, I *do* think
that RPM is /considerably/ inferior.
I have experimented with automatic dependency resolution in YAST and
found it quite poor. I've also played with YUM and URPMI and whereas
they worked OK, I've heard far more horror stories about them than I
ever have about apt-get.
Certainly, 21st century RPM has fixed most of the issues. It does now
have dependency resolution and so on.
SUSE also has the option of APT4RPM, which ports APT-GET onto the
underpinnings of RPM rather than DPKG and .DEB. This works
surprisingly well and I personally think SUSE were fools /not/ to
adopt it and move YAST2 over to calling APT4RPM instead of doing its
own job. But even so, you can't do things like complete distribution
upgrades with RPM, not even APT4RPM.
So, yes, the gap has narrowed, but still, even today, the Debian
family don't have the admin tools that SUSE boasts, and the RPM-based
distros don't have the elegant, mature package-management system that
the Debian family do.
--
Liam Proven • Info & profile: http://www.google.com/profiles/lproven
Email: lpr...@cix.co.uk • GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lpr...@gmail.com
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 • Cell: +44 7939-087884 • Fax: + 44 870-9151419
AIM/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven • MSN: lpr...@hotmail.com • ICQ: 73187508
--
Jamie Paul Griffin
> But now that I realize that on the above, you dissed Ubuntu and come
> back 3 days later and ask the Ubuntu list the same thing, then it's
> clear that you are just a stupid troll.
> Rather unsurprisingly, the answers here on the Ubuntu list pretty much
> match those you got from fedora-list and I didn't check, but I suppose
> you pretty much did the same thing on some suse list too.
I don't think there is any need to be so harsh and unfriendly. He is new to Linux and I suspect to mailing lists as well so you could cut him some slack. He came to this list for advice and has been given some great feedback. Comments like that just put new users off from coming to ubuntu-users for help in case they get flamed.
Craig White
> I have experimented with automatic dependency resolution in YAST and
> found it quite poor. I've also played with YUM and URPMI and whereas
> they worked OK, I've heard far more horror stories about them than I
> ever have about apt-get.
----
I don't know about that but my experiences with rpm have mostly been RH
derived distributions (RHEL, CentOS, Fedora)
----
> Certainly, 21st century RPM has fixed most of the issues. It does now
> have dependency resolution and so on.
----
nope - none whatsoever - obviously you've confused it with something
else.
----
> So, yes, the gap has narrowed, but still, even today, the Debian
> family don't have the admin tools that SUSE boasts, and the RPM-based
> distros don't have the elegant, mature package-management system that
> the Debian family do.
----
seems to me that you are trying to make major distinctions despite the
fact that the various tools seem to accomplish the same tasks with
relatively the same efficacy. Then again, it's been a long time since
I've played with YAST.
My experiences tell me that each distribution has some benefits and some
drawbacks compared to each other but the differences are not overly
significant.
Craig
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Craig White
> On Fri, Dec 23, 2011 at 09:58:40AM -0700, Craig White wrote:
>
> > But now that I realize that on the above, you dissed Ubuntu and come
> > back 3 days later and ask the Ubuntu list the same thing, then it's
> > clear that you are just a stupid troll.
>
> > Rather unsurprisingly, the answers here on the Ubuntu list pretty much
> > match those you got from fedora-list and I didn't check, but I suppose
> > you pretty much did the same thing on some suse list too.
>
> I don't think there is any need to be so harsh and unfriendly. He is new to Linux and I suspect to mailing lists as well so you could cut him some slack. He came to this list for advice and has been given some great feedback. Comments like that just put new users off from coming to ubuntu-users for help in case they get flamed.
sure...
comparing distributions, like Gnome vs KDE, like emacs or vi are not
questions that have definite answers except for the personal judgment
that one can only make for themselves.
Doing it on multiple lists makes it clear that the OP isn't actually
interested in the answer, because he has already been told that there is
no single answer.
Asking the Ubuntu list just two scant days after he disdained Ubuntu on
the Fedora list made it abundantly obvious that he is just a troll and
I'm sorry if that seems harsh and unfriendly. If you feel that it is
worth your time and energy then so be it but don't say that you weren't
warned.
Craig
--
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Basil Chupin
> On 12/23/2011 01:49 PM, sdavmor wrote:
>> On 12/23/2011 08:07 AM, Liam Proven wrote:
>>
>> [snip all the well-written well-thought out response]
>>
>>> In summary:
>>>
>>> Ubuntu: relatively small, modern, simple, streamlined. Very easy
>>> andpolished.
>>>
>>> SUSE: big, very capable, quite complex, many many options. Good
>>> admin tools but software management inferior, as is that of all
>>> the RPM-based distros.
>>
>> That's an excellent summary you've provided, Liam.
>
> Liam, somehow you're coming off dissing rpm, which I'm sure wasn't
> your intent. Ric
Not to mention that, as someone who contributes to a technical journal,
he is living in the past.
openSUSE is not owned by Novell anymore. Novell was bought by
Attachmate, and SuSE is now also a separate unit operating in/from
Germany (SuSE's land of birth)[1].
Furthermore, the software package management system in YaST is very
efficient and resolves dependencies perfectly -- totally contrary to
what "he who doesn't know his facts" claims.
[1] What may be throwing some people off the scent is that there are
some URLs associated with openSUSE which still have Novell in their URL
name but this is only because there hasn't been time to alter
documentation, URL names, etc.
BC
--
There are actually three kinds of mind: one kind grasps things unaided, the second sees what another has grasped, the third grasps nothing and sees nothing.
Niccolo Machiavelli
Ric Moore
> So, yes, the gap has narrowed, but still, even today, the Debian
> family don't have the admin tools that SUSE boasts, and the RPM-based
> distros don't have the elegant, mature package-management system that
> the Debian family do.
Caldera had the good sense to just use rpm as Red Hat did, since they
were a red-haired step child, so to speak. Ole Donnie caught hell, on
the Caldera list, when Caldera had about their 3rd or 4th release and
about a week or so later Red Hat came out with a new and improved
version of RPM that nailed ours. It's not always roses when a distro
competes with another. Ric
--
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
http://linuxcounter.net/user/44256.html
--
Ric Moore
Well, the entire topic is like religion and politics, best not dwelled
on to any great length among "polite society". :) Ric
--
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
http://linuxcounter.net/user/44256.html
--
Craig White
> On 12/23/2011 05:15 PM, Liam Proven wrote:
>
> > So, yes, the gap has narrowed, but still, even today, the Debian
> > family don't have the admin tools that SUSE boasts, and the RPM-based
> > distros don't have the elegant, mature package-management system that
> > the Debian family do.
>
> Caldera had the good sense to just use rpm as Red Hat did, since they
> were a red-haired step child, so to speak. Ole Donnie caught hell, on
> the Caldera list, when Caldera had about their 3rd or 4th release and
> about a week or so later Red Hat came out with a new and improved
> version of RPM that nailed ours. It's not always roses when a distro
> competes with another. Ric
that's bs - Red Hat always makes their code available upstream and thus
any Linux can use code from any of their packages including the package
manager itself... the source was always available to everyone.
There are always issues with the timing of releases especially
considering that updated packages should get some amount of testing
before making it into a 'stable' product.
Craig
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Kevin Stabilo
On 12/23/2011 07:48 AM, Rameshwar Kr. Sharma wrote:
Well thanks for the suggestions. I would read but right now can one
tell me the difference between the two package managers :- Yast and
Ubuntu's in general terms?
We're getting to the point of beating a dead horse now. What part of trying it out are you missing out on?? If YOU like it, it's good. If you don't like it, don't use it. EOL. You asked a question, you got answers to try. Don't ask more questions while ignoring the previous answers, or you'll start making people slow to respond you or worse, add you to their junk filters. Better yet, use google. But, trolling for "us versus them", is not considered a good thing, as I pointed out before. We don't do that. Ric
Hey Ric,
You should see the circle jerk goin round and round over at the Fdora list....startin with this one...
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/users/2011-December/410414.html
I think this guy must be a tech writer that wants everyone to do his work...I could have see him on the Suse lists too. Man, I don't think I would spend any time to answer this guy. Seems like he just jumps from list to list askin the same stuff and never does anything with it.... He be the type of guy you'd like see keep using Windose.
Kevin Stabilo
>
>> Well thanks for the suggestions. I would read but right now can one
>> tell me the difference between the two package managers :- Yast and
>> Ubuntu's in general terms?
>
> We're getting to the point of beating a dead horse now. What part of
> trying it out are you missing out on?? If YOU like it, it's good. If
> you don't like it, don't use it. EOL. You asked a question, you got
> answers to try. Don't ask more questions while ignoring the previous
> answers, or you'll start making people slow to respond you or worse,
> add you to their junk filters. Better yet, use google. But, trolling
> for "us versus them", is not considered a good thing, as I pointed out
> before. We don't do that. Ric
>
Hey Ric,
You should see the circle jerk goin round and round over at the Fdora
list....startin with this one...
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/users/2011-December/410414.html
I think this guy must be a tech writer that wants everyone to do his
work...I could have see him on the Suse lists too. Man, I don't think I
would spend any time to answer this guy. Seems like he just jumps from
list to list askin the same stuff and never does anything with it....
He be the type of guy you'd like see keep using Windose.
--
Ric Moore
> On Fri, 2011-12-23 at 20:47 -0500, Ric Moore wrote:
>> On 12/23/2011 05:15 PM, Liam Proven wrote:
>>
>>> So, yes, the gap has narrowed, but still, even today, the Debian
>>> family don't have the admin tools that SUSE boasts, and the RPM-based
>>> distros don't have the elegant, mature package-management system that
>>> the Debian family do.
>>
>> Caldera had the good sense to just use rpm as Red Hat did, since they
>> were a red-haired step child, so to speak. Ole Donnie caught hell, on
>> the Caldera list, when Caldera had about their 3rd or 4th release and
>> about a week or so later Red Hat came out with a new and improved
>> version of RPM that nailed ours. It's not always roses when a distro
>> competes with another. Ric
> ----
> that's bs - Red Hat always makes their code available upstream and thus
> any Linux can use code from any of their packages including the package
> manager itself... the source was always available to everyone.
Of course it is. We just happened to notice that the completely
re-worked and updated version of rpm appeared just a week or so after we
all had just updated our Caldera installs, and our old version of rpm
was not compatible at all with the new version, which was a completely
reworked version. I'm sure that was a coincidence... <cackles>
> There are always issues with the timing of releases especially
> considering that updated packages should get some amount of testing
> before making it into a 'stable' product.
Well sure, if Caldera KNEW that rpm was being completely re-worked then
they would have held off their release. They were never hide-bound to a
release date. They were small enough to do the "right thing". Liam was
probably there at that time. We got blindsided. "All's fair...."
<chuckles> Ric
--
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
http://linuxcounter.net/user/44256.html
--
Jamie Paul Griffin
> comparing distributions, like Gnome vs KDE, like emacs or vi are not
> questions that have definite answers except for the personal judgment
> that one can only make for themselves.
>
> Doing it on multiple lists makes it clear that the OP isn't actually
> interested in the answer, because he has already been told that there is
> no single answer.
>
> Asking the Ubuntu list just two scant days after he disdained Ubuntu on
> the Fedora list made it abundantly obvious that he is just a troll and
> I'm sorry if that seems harsh and unfriendly. If you feel that it is
> worth your time and energy then so be it but don't say that you weren't
> warned.
I do agree with your point entirely. I just feel that being unnecessarily unkind creates a sense of hostility for this list which it shouldn't. This list and many others provide a fabulous service to new users and it's better to point out to people that disregard the etiquette of the list that it's not acceptable rather than publicly flame them. Unfortunately its inevitable that a certain amount of stupidity will show itself but then it's best to educate them.
You will have read that I made it quite to the OP earlier in the thread that he should go and read up on a topic before posting. If he chooses not to try and learn for himself then that's his problem. I have no intention of wasting my time in that case, so I do agree with you there.
Ric Moore
This about sums it up....
http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
It's a form of tough love to get someone to ask "better questions". Ric
--
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
http://linuxcounter.net/user/44256.html
--
Craig White
> I do agree with your point entirely. I just feel that being unnecessarily unkind creates a sense of hostility for this list which it shouldn't. This list and many others provide a fabulous service to new users and it's better to point out to people that disregard the etiquette of the list that it's not acceptable rather than publicly flame them. Unfortunately its inevitable that a certain amount of stupidity will show itself but then it's best to educate them.
>
> You will have read that I made it quite to the OP earlier in the thread that he should go and read up on a topic before posting. If he chooses not to try and learn for himself then that's his problem. I have no intention of wasting my time in that case, so I do agree with you there.
----
Perhaps I should make something clear...
Having experienced the identical thread on fedora-list that is
undoubtedly approaching 100 e-mails, I wake up to find a virtually
identical thread started on ubuntu-users. This despite the fact that he
disdained Ubuntu to the fedora-list just days before. This thread
included an excessively pedantic exchange regarding his lack of efforts
to do his own research, using multiple identities and just generally
lacking any purpose other than creating controversy.
W/R/T your reply (and some others) - yes, those were typical of the
initial replies on the Fedora list - do you own research.
W/R/T replies such as the several incredibly wordy, historically
accurate (but worthless), comparatively inaccurate (lacks knowledge of
current versions of alternative distributions) by Liam... that is
precisely why I found his trolling to be unacceptable. He is getting
people to waste their time.
Rather than further the OP's intent to create controversy, I would
suggest that you simply let it drop and let the thread die.
Craig
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Rameshwar Kr. Sharma
> In summary:
Thanks Liam for making things clear. Then I must go with Ubuntu only
since it would give the learning environment of Linux. This thing that
Ubuntu automatically solves the problem of packages and libraries is
something giving me pleasure since it really become tough for a home
user who has to use the software and has less knowledge. So really
great thing which is missing in openSUSE. Home users are really not
able to perfectly know always which libraries they need and which not,
so how can users (home users) decide that they should install only the
said and not that, this is really typical in openSUSE, if it is the
case. Further, I came to know that, Ubuntu is really more novice
friendly then any other distribution. Some say that while Ubuntu
downloads the whole of the packages again when updating while suse
only the updates (this point I didn't understand) but for me then,
Ubuntu would really be fine.
Another thing I am having doubt is that suse that some contract with
microsoft that it can do work for MS? So people are annoyed at it, I
guess, a bad news for open source people, I only heard that suse lost
its some the popularity due to this.
Further one of the things I have notices is that I also asked for
suggestions in the Fedora list where some people were too arrogant,
saying anything, I feel that Ubuntu mailing lists are far better and
great for a novice, at least for me. Thanks.
Rameshwar Kr. Sharma
> If you use anything but Ubuntu. Most of the other live CD I have to disable
> ipv6 thing to get on the Internet with Firefox. I have 3 PCs and have do do
> it on all. I did write this but if you try something other that Ubuntu 11.10
> you might want it handy. You can do a config:about and disable there but
> that only helps Firefox. I like unity. But I use unity2 better than Gnome.
> Just me.
> Merry Christmas and God Bless Johnny3 65+++
> Easier way to do this is to pass the kernel a parameter to disable ipv6 on
> bootup. To do that, edit /etc/default/grub and add "ipv6.disable_ipv6=1" on
> the GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT line so it looks similar to the following:
> GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet splash ipv6.disable_ipv6=1"
> Save the file and then run "sudo update-grub" to update grub.cfg and
> generate new initramfs images. Reboot and ipv6 should be disabled on all
> interfaces.
Merry Christmas to you also Johny, I am really liking Ubuntu and
definitely would give Unity a try, irrespective of what I heard.
Rameshwar Kr. Sharma
> I was feeling somewhat sympathetic for you when you asked sort of the
> same thing on fedora-list and George harangued you for thinking that you
> had already done this very same thing as user LinuxIsOne...
> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/users/2011-December/410414.html
Might be you are sympathetic, but not so with me, I don't know about
'g' (if you are talking of that idiot), his language was more abusive
and wrong, yes I did ask in Fedora also but as a newbie to know is not
wrong. How many installations all over the world are done daily? So
many newbies daily, and he was more impersonating me, which is
absolutely something absurd and wrong.
> But now that I realize that on the above, you dissed Ubuntu and come
> back 3 days later and ask the Ubuntu list the same thing, then it's
> clear that you are just a stupid troll.
You really seem to be mis-understood with that all, so saying like
this, which is not at all the case, but yes I did ask in Fedora w.r.t.
Fedora and here w.r.t Ubuntu to know all the things.
> Rather unsurprisingly, the answers here on the Ubuntu list pretty much
> match those you got from fedora-list and I didn't check, but I suppose
> you pretty much did the same thing on some suse list too.
> Knowing how you just waste everyone's time on various lists, I'm not
> sure why anyone would want to actually answer any of your questions... I
> know I certainly won't.
Completely wrong and mistaken are you buddy!
Rameshwar Kr. Sharma
> We're getting to the point of beating a dead horse now. What part of trying
> it out are you missing out on?? If YOU like it, it's good. If you don't like
> it, don't use it. EOL. You asked a question, you got answers to try. Don't
> ask more questions while ignoring the previous answers, or you'll start
> making people slow to respond you or worse, add you to their junk filters.
> Better yet, use google. But, trolling for "us versus them", is not
> considered a good thing, as I pointed out before. We don't do that. Ric
Yes, Ric, finally this newbie has decided that Ubuntu is the way to go.
Rameshwar Kr. Sharma
> Synaptic Package Manager is used with RPM in Pclinuxos, and with Gnome in
> Mint, and
> I think it's a very nice, usable program. I don't like YAST, and I don't
> care for apt-get, since
> you need the filename ahead of time with apt-get. Synaptic provides a nice
> list, along
> with a search function.
Okk, I see.
Rameshwar Kr. Sharma
Okay and thanks again for this nice explanation, I going to download
the Ubuntu copy.
Rameshwar Kr. Sharma
<ja...@kontrol.kode5.net> wrote:
> I don't think there is any need to be so harsh and unfriendly. He is new to Linux and I suspect to mailing lists as well so you could cut him some slack. He came to this list for advice and has been given some great feedback. Comments like that just put new users off from coming to ubuntu-users for help in case they get flamed.
And not only this, many people are newbies on daily basis and they all
might ask the questions, so I hope this aspect is good which should
remain good, people who misunderstood should understand this but I
have no problem with them, I just asked here to know about Ubuntu
features as compared with suse and in fedora, to compare fedora with
suse and I got many good suggestions more in Ubuntu but a little more
harsh and weird in Fedora. Thanks.
Rameshwar Kr. Sharma
> comparing distributions, like Gnome vs KDE, like emacs or vi are not
> questions that have definite answers except for the personal judgment
> that one can only make for themselves.
> Doing it on multiple lists makes it clear that the OP isn't actually
> interested in the answer, because he has already been told that there is
> no single answer.
> Asking the Ubuntu list just two scant days after he disdained Ubuntu on
> the Fedora list made it abundantly obvious that he is just a troll and
> I'm sorry if that seems harsh and unfriendly. If you feel that it is
> worth your time and energy then so be it but don't say that you weren't
> warned.
There is something definitely going wrong in your mind, I did ask,
that was a fedora list, so comparison was with fedora, it is ubuntu
and the comparison is with ubuntu, so that is the different. Like you
can ask about all the information of the different different cars
going in the repective showrooms and then you finally decide to buy
which one? I would rather call you a complete idiot and stupid if you
don't do that if you have to purchase a car and if you don't take
suggestions. Further the words of the idiot 'g' (on the fedora list)
were abusive, for a newbie to take suggestions is nice and I love to
gain from the people's experiences which are really great and worthy
of being known.
Rameshwar Kr. Sharma
> It's not always roses when a distro competes with another. Ric
Nice!
Rameshwar Kr. Sharma
You should see the circle jerk goin round and round over at the Fdora list....startin with this one...
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/users/2011-December/410414.html
I think this guy must be a tech writer that wants everyone to do his work...I could have see him on the Suse lists too. Man, I don't think I would spend any time to answer this guy. Seems like he just jumps from list to list askin the same stuff and never does anything with it.... He be the type of guy you'd like see keep using Windose.
Correct, I did ask in the Fedora lists too, but please: for a while think of the time when you too were an absolute beginner and finding your way typical of chosing the correct distribution and then start working for it! Its typical for a newbie to decide for the correct distribution, so that matters a lot and it seems as if someone is a troll, but this is not the case Craig. I hope you would see from my
(newbie) perspective too.
Rameshwar Kr. Sharma
<ja...@kontrol.kode5.net> wrote:
> You will have read that I made it quite to the OP earlier in the thread that he should go and read up on a topic before posting. If he chooses not to try and learn for himself then that's his problem. I have no intention of wasting my time in that case, so I do agree with you there.
I respect your views and I really good suggestions here and more of
the people's real experiences, that is for sure.
Thanks.
Liam Proven
>
> W/R/T replies such as the several incredibly wordy, historically
> accurate (but worthless), comparatively inaccurate (lacks knowledge of
> current versions of alternative distributions) by Liam... that is
> precisely why I found his trolling to be unacceptable. He is getting
> people to waste their time.
Point of information:
The fact that someone does not agree with you does not mean that they are wrong.
Furthermore, they could be right /and/ you could be right. Both are
perfectly possible. I can say with confidence that it is 12:33PM and
about 5°C outside. Where you are, this is probably not true;
nonetheless, I am right and so are you in saying something completely
different.
--
Liam Proven • Info & profile: http://www.google.com/profiles/lproven
Email: lpr...@cix.co.uk • GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lpr...@gmail.com
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 • Cell: +44 7939-087884 • Fax: + 44 870-9151419
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--
Rameshwar Kr. Sharma
> Furthermore, they could be right /and/ you could be right. Both are
> perfectly possible. I can say with confidence that it is 12:33PM and
> about 5°C outside. Where you are, this is probably not true;
> nonetheless, I am right and so are you in saying something completely
> different.
And I came to know that everything is relative! Correct Liam your
words are! For someone reading the mailing lists is just a waste of
time since he/she is more interested in some other activities like
coding and manipulating the bugs but for someone the mailings lists
are a great place where he can learn from the people's experiences
like me! So like: a little bit of more salt in daily dinner is harmful
for a patient of higher blood pressure while a lower blood pressure
patient is to take only the salted food, even in the lunch!
Phil Dobbin
> Point of information:
>
> The fact that someone does not agree with you does not mean that they are wrong.
>
> Furthermore, they could be right /and/ you could be right. Both are
> perfectly possible. I can say with confidence that it is 12:33PM and
> about 5°C outside. Where you are, this is probably not true;
> nonetheless, I am right and so are you in saying something completely
> different.
+1
Apart from making work for idle hands, a subject such as this is along
the same lines, as noted in an earlier post, as the tedious emacs vs.
vim flame wars that ran for years.
Try 'em both, pick which one you like & be thankful it ain't Windoze ;-)
Happy holidays all,
Cheers,
Phil...
Rameshwar Kr. Sharma
> Try 'em both, pick which one you like & be thankful it ain't Windoze ;-)
+1, but have decided to give Ubuntu a first try, I guess the reasons
to adopt it are more.
> Happy holidays all,
Same to you.
Kevin Stabilo
> Correct, I did ask in the Fedora lists too, but please: for a while
> think of the time when you too were an absolute beginner and finding
> your way typical of chosing the correct distribution and then start
> working for it! Its typical for a newbie to decide for the correct
> distribution, so that matters a lot and it seems as if someone is a
> troll, but this is not the case Craig. I hope you would see from my
> (newbie) perspective too.
I can think back....and man I tell you I picked my Linux distro like I
picked my ice cream. I tasted them.
It makes no common sense to go to Baskin Robbins and ask the people in
the line if Baskin Robbins is better than Cold Stone Creamery. Same the
other way. They are in line at Baskin Robbins cause they like Baksin
Robins. At the end of the day all you got are a bunch of biased answers
and the only thing that matters is what your tongue tells you. You got
ice cream in Bangalore, don't you?
Ya did tell ric that youve settled on Ubuntu. Maybe you'll like the taste.
Billie Walsh
> Further one of the things I have notices is that I also asked for
> suggestions in the Fedora list where some people were too arrogant,
> saying anything, I feel that Ubuntu mailing lists are far better and
> great for a novice, at least for me. Thanks.
As has been suggested, getting the live CD and taking it for a test
drive is a good idea. That won't however tell you everything you will
need to know. Until you've lived with it every day for a while you won't
find all the things that might drive you crazy.
It's probably been seven or eight years since I started playing around
with Linux, Suse to be exact. My first install was a dual boot with XP.
When I had some time to kill I would reboot into Suse and try things to
see what happened. I made a lot of mistakes, even managed to kill Suse a
few times. All part of the learning curve I suppose. As time went on I
found that I was using XP less and less till one day I just started
using Suse full time. Over time I kept hearing about how wonderful
Ubuntu was so one day I decided to give it a test drive around the
block. For about the past four or five years I've been using Kubuntu
full time with occasional forays into Windows. Whenever I have to go
into Windows I wish it was more like Kubuntu.
My suggestion at this point is to get the Ubuntu Live CD and boot it up.
Take it for a test drive. Kick the tires, check out the radio and A/C.
See if it looks like something you could live with. The down side is
that you can't really make any changes that will remain after you shut
down the system. If it looks good install as a dual boot, don't burn
your bridges just in case. Play with it for a while and see how it works
for you. the great thing about Linux is that it gives you choices. If
something doesn't work well for you you have a choice of something else.
If I was you I would not pay to much attention to the message thread
after this. it will devolve into something that keeps getting further
and further away from your question until it dies of old age.
--
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain
the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the
government lest it come to dominate our lives and interests”.
- Patrick Henry -
_ _... ..._ _
_._ ._ ..... ._.. ... .._
Rameshwar Kr. Sharma
> I can think back....and man I tell you I picked my Linux distro like I
> picked my ice cream. I tasted them.
> It makes no common sense to go to Baskin Robbins and ask the people in the
> line if Baskin Robbins is better than Cold Stone Creamery. Same the other
> way. They are in line at Baskin Robbins cause they like Baksin Robins. At
> the end of the day all you got are a bunch of biased answers and the only
> thing that matters is what your tongue tells you. You got ice cream in
> Bangalore, don't you?
> Ya did tell ric that youve settled on Ubuntu. Maybe you'll like the taste.
Oh yes sure and after all Linux is Linux! Thanks and I also have
picked the ice-cream of Ubuntu.
Rameshwar Kr. Sharma
> As has been suggested, getting the live CD and taking it for a test drive is
> a good idea. That won't however tell you everything you will need to know.
> Until you've lived with it every day for a while you won't find all the
> things that might drive you crazy.
Yes, I am downloading the Ubuntu flavor.
> It's probably been seven or eight years since I started playing around with
> Linux, Suse to be exact. My first install was a dual boot with XP. When I
> had some time to kill I would reboot into Suse and try things to see what
> happened. I made a lot of mistakes, even managed to kill Suse a few times.
> All part of the learning curve I suppose. As time went on I found that I was
> using XP less and less till one day I just started using Suse full time.
> Over time I kept hearing about how wonderful Ubuntu was so one day I decided
> to give it a test drive around the block. For about the past four or five
> years I've been using Kubuntu full time with occasional forays into Windows.
> Whenever I have to go into Windows I wish it was more like Kubuntu.
> My suggestion at this point is to get the Ubuntu Live CD and boot it up.
> Take it for a test drive. Kick the tires, check out the radio and A/C. See
> if it looks like something you could live with. The down side is that you
> can't really make any changes that will remain after you shut down the
> system. If it looks good install as a dual boot, don't burn your bridges
> just in case. Play with it for a while and see how it works for you. the
> great thing about Linux is that it gives you choices. If something doesn't
> work well for you you have a choice of something else.
> If I was you I would not pay to much attention to the message thread after
> this. it will devolve into something that keeps getting further and further
> away from your question until it dies of old age.
Thanks for your nice suggestions Billie and yes I have already started
the Ubuntu download and I would take the test drive. I would rather in
fact, install it, try it out, ask here if get stuck, do things in
Linux. Linux is Linux! Suse or Ubuntu! But, like Liam cleared the
matter that package manager in Ubuntu is of great ease and better, so
I decided finally to give the first tries to Ubuntu. I hope that I
would get all the alternatives here itself like those I have in
Windows, if that great and suits to me, I would also, like you abandon
the use of Windows, and would be a Ubuntu fan ever - whether Ubuntu or
Kubuntu but like someone told that the real is Ubuntu, the real thing
and the easiest thing. And the Ubuntu community too seems a great
community. Well thanks for the suggestions.
Liam Proven
*I* think it's better. That's my personal opinion. Others will tell
you differently.
I have never had any joy with Fedora and not much with CentOS (the
free version of Red Hat Enterprise Linux, the commercial-only product
that Fedora is a rolling alpha-test version for.)
Fedora is not intended to be stable; it is a freeware product, used to
test out new technologies that /might/ later make it into RHEL. Unlike
Ubuntu it doesn't have stable releases every so often, and it is, I
believe, harder to upgrade from one release of Fedora to a newer one,
which Ubuntu makes quite easy.
OpenSUSE is also the freeware product from a company selling
commercial Linux - SUSE Linux Enterprise Server, SLES. This is the
server product sold by Novell. (The other commenter who claims that
Novell is separate from SUSE seems to me not to understand how the
companies work or interact. SUSE is still a division of Novell; the
division's HQ has been moved back to its original home in Germany,
that's all. SUSE's products form the basis for Novell's server
software.) However, SUSE has a long history, it is designed to be
fairly stable in its own right, and it has always supported upgrading
between releases. Personally I find it *much* easier than Fedora.
Other distros you might like to have a play with include:
* Mandriva - forked off Red Hat many years ago, uses KDE and RPM;
quite friendly and helpful
* PCLinuxOS - a lighter, smaller, simpler derivative of Mandriva
* Mepis - a media-friendly remix of Debian, the same source as Ubuntu
And if you fancy something completely different:
* PC-BSD - an easy, friendly distro of FreeBSD, a totally different
underlying OS to Linux
Ones I would suggest you /avoid/ as a beginner:
* Debian
* Slackware
* Gentoo
* Arch
--
Liam Proven • Info & profile: http://www.google.com/profiles/lproven
Email: lpr...@cix.co.uk • GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lpr...@gmail.com
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 • Cell: +44 7939-087884 • Fax: + 44 870-9151419
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--
Rameshwar Kr. Sharma
> *I* think it's better. That's my personal opinion. Others will tell
> you differently.
> I have never had any joy with Fedora and not much with CentOS (the
> free version of Red Hat Enterprise Linux, the commercial-only product
> that Fedora is a rolling alpha-test version for.)
> Fedora is not intended to be stable; it is a freeware product, used to
> test out new technologies that /might/ later make it into RHEL. Unlike
> Ubuntu it doesn't have stable releases every so often, and it is, I
> believe, harder to upgrade from one release of Fedora to a newer one,
> which Ubuntu makes quite easy.
Ubuntu is great since I came to know that it offers releases as stable
as for 5 years or 3 years! Cool.
> OpenSUSE is also the freeware product from a company selling
> commercial Linux - SUSE Linux Enterprise Server, SLES. This is the
> server product sold by Novell. (The other commenter who claims that
> Novell is separate from SUSE seems to me not to understand how the
> companies work or interact. SUSE is still a division of Novell; the
> division's HQ has been moved back to its original home in Germany,
> that's all. SUSE's products form the basis for Novell's server
> software.) However, SUSE has a long history, it is designed to be
> fairly stable in its own right, and it has always supported upgrading
> between releases. Personally I find it *much* easier than Fedora.
Oh I see.
> Other distros you might like to have a play with include:
> * Mandriva - forked off Red Hat many years ago, uses KDE and RPM;
> quite friendly and helpful
> * PCLinuxOS - a lighter, smaller, simpler derivative of Mandriva
> * Mepis - a media-friendly remix of Debian, the same source as Ubuntu
> And if you fancy something completely different:
> * PC-BSD - an easy, friendly distro of FreeBSD, a totally different
> underlying OS to Linux
I am hearing it but I would not go for it, does it also offer a live cd?
> Ones I would suggest you /avoid/ as a beginner:
> * Debian
> * Slackware
> * Gentoo
> * Arch
I would definitely now use these.
Rameshwar Kr. Sharma
<mathsre...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Ones I would suggest you /avoid/ as a beginner:
>> * Debian
>> * Slackware
>> * Gentoo
>> * Arch
> I would definitely now use these.
I meant would **not**.
Robert Holtzman
.......snip of way too much quoting......
>
> Ones I would suggest you /avoid/ as a beginner:
>
> * Debian
> * Slackware
> * Gentoo
> * Arch
Liam, I think I agree with the poster who said that you seem to be
living in the past. I have no experience with Slackware, Gentoo, or
Arch, but have used Debian *and* Ubuntu on and off for several years.
What was the last time you checked out Debian? At one time you were
correct in saying that Debian was tough for beginners but, that hasn't
been true for quite a while. Realizing that this is OT, I'd like to you
expand (off list if you'd rather) on what you feel it is that makes
Debian that much harder.
For the record, I'm not necessarily a Debian fanboy, being relatively
distro agnostic.
--
Bob Holtzman
If you think you're getting free lunch,
check the price of the beer.
Key ID: 8D549279
Robert Holtzman
.......snip......
>
> Thanks for your nice suggestions Billie and yes I have already started
> the Ubuntu download and I would take the test drive. I would rather in
> fact, install it, try it out, ask here if get stuck
Giving you the benefit of the doubt that you're not a troll, before you leap
to post a question to this, or any other, list when you get stuck, *please*
read
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#rtfm
Rameshwar Kr. Sharma
> Giving you the benefit of the doubt that you're not a troll, before you leap
> to post a question to this, or any other, list when you get stuck, *please*
> read
> http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#rtfm
Bad, not a good language, behave like Liam! Shame on you!
Liam Proven
On Dec 24, 2011 5:25 PM, "Robert Holtzman" <hol...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> On Sat, Dec 24, 2011 at 03:11:02PM +0000, Liam Proven wrote:
>
> .......snip of way too much quoting......
> >
> > Ones I would suggest you /avoid/ as a beginner:
> >
> > * Debian
> > * Slackware
> > * Gentoo
> > * Arch
>
> Liam, I think I agree with the poster who said that you seem to be
> living in the past. I have no experience with Slackware, Gentoo, or
> Arch, but have used Debian *and* Ubuntu on and off for several years.
> What was the last time you checked out Debian? At one time you were
> correct in saying that Debian was tough for beginners but, that hasn't
> been true for quite a while. Realizing that this is OT, I'd like to you
> expand (off list if you'd rather) on what you feel it is that makes
> Debian that much harder.
>
> For the record, I'm not necessarily a Debian fanboy, being relatively
> distro agnostic.
Pardon the untrimmed quote & brevity; answering on my phone.
I last tried Debian 6 & before that Debian 5. I think I've tried every version since 2 on a variety of hardware.
It is much better than it was, but the problem is that techie people forget how much they know compared to non-techies.
You still must choose server or desktop, partition your disc, pick a desktop environment, choose supplementary tools, find & instal your own proprietary drivers, replace Gnash with the actual Flash player, etc.
It's come a long way but it's still not beginner-ready, nor is it trying to be.
I've also tried 2 other Debian meta-distributions, Crunchbang & Linux Mint Debian Edition. LMDE is all right; #! I could not even get to instal on real hardware, using an elderly laptop that is the exact target of this lightweight distro.
It is easy to underestimate the amount of polishing & improvement Ubuntu has done.
Liam Proven
Without wishing to be rude, you must learn to search for easy answers for yourself. If you ask /everything/ on mailing lists or fora, you are going to annoy people with the volume of your posts.
Google it!
Rameshwar Kr. Sharma
> Giving you the benefit of the doubt that you're not a troll, before you leap
> to post a question to this, or any other, list when you get stuck, *please*
> read
> http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#rtfm
I am sorry Robert, I didn't mean that, since you used the work
*please*, I would definitely look this all and take into
consideration, but that's not a benefit of doubt - that's a truth.
Thanks for your suggestion.
Rameshwar Kr. Sharma
<mathsre...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am sorry Robert, I didn't mean that, since you used the work
> *please*, I would definitely look this all and take into
> consideration, but that's not a benefit of doubt - that's a truth.
> Thanks for your suggestion.
A truth - that a newbie is interested to know about Linux, people
seemed to call it a 'troll'!
Rameshwar Kr. Sharma
> Pardon the untrimmed quote & brevity; answering on my phone.
> I last tried Debian 6 & before that Debian 5. I think I've tried every
> version since 2 on a variety of hardware.
> It is much better than it was, but the problem is that techie people forget
> how much they know compared to non-techies.
And perhaps, that's why, Ubuntu was discovered!
> You still must choose server or desktop, partition your disc, pick a desktop
> environment, choose supplementary tools, find & instal your own proprietary
> drivers, replace Gnash with the actual Flash player, etc.
> It's come a long way but it's still not beginner-ready, nor is it trying to
> be.
> I've also tried 2 other Debian meta-distributions, Crunchbang & Linux Mint
> Debian Edition. LMDE is all right; #! I could not even get to instal on real
> hardware, using an elderly laptop that is the exact target of this
> lightweight distro.
> It is easy to underestimate the amount of polishing & improvement Ubuntu has
> done.
And you (perhaps) truly told earlier that - Ubuntu is a polished
Debian, at least for a home user.
Rameshwar Kr. Sharma
> Without wishing to be rude, you must learn to search for easy answers for
> yourself. If you ask /everything/ on mailing lists or fora, you are going to
> annoy people with the volume of your posts.
I am really sorry for it, pardon me, I can do that. I might have asked
since it was the continuation of the same mail, in fact was asking
something different.
> Google it!
Sure, thanks.
Ric Moore
> On Sat, Dec 24, 2011 at 08:12:31PM +0530, Rameshwar Kr. Sharma wrote:
>
> .......snip......
>>
>> Thanks for your nice suggestions Billie and yes I have already started
>> the Ubuntu download and I would take the test drive. I would rather in
>> fact, install it, try it out, ask here if get stuck
>
> Giving you the benefit of the doubt that you're not a troll, before you leap
> to post a question to this, or any other, list when you get stuck, *please*
> read
>
> http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#rtfm
+1 Moses couldn't do better. Merry Xmas! Ric
--
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
http://linuxcounter.net/user/44256.html
Rameshwar Kr. Sharma
> +1 Moses couldn't do better. Merry Xmas! Ric
Merry Xmas to you also and to the whole community!
rikona
>> I am hearing it but I would not go for it, does it also offer a live cd?
>>
> Without wishing to be rude, you must learn to search for easy
> answers for yourself. If you ask /everything/ on mailing lists or
> fora, you are going to annoy people with the volume of your posts.
A bit different perspective --
This list is NOT the first place to go to with a question. Searching
will often give the answer, but not always, especially for newbies.
Some search results may be old and out of date, and not work. Others
may be for a slightly different problem, and not work. Still others
may be above your technical abilities, and you may not know how to do
what they suggest, and thus not work.
After you have tried searching and trying on your own, and not having
success, then consider the list. Describe your system, explain what
you want to do, what you have done and how it failed, and ask for
advice. You will likely get help here.
This is my brief overview of what the list is for, and often does well
at...
--
rikona
Robert Holtzman
> On Sat, Dec 24, 2011 at 11:08 PM, Robert Holtzman <hol...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > Giving you the benefit of the doubt that you're not a troll, before you leap
> > to post a question to this, or any other, list when you get stuck, *please*
> > read
>
> > http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#rtfm
>
> Bad, not a good language, behave like Liam! Shame on you!
I have no idea what you're talking about!
James Freer
I would suggest you try a few distros... but to save a bitter
experience with your main PC. Get hold of a spare machine so you can
test to your hearts content... and still able to use your main machine
for work and emails. Later the test machine can be used for a linux
MUST-DO -- an installation of Linux From Scratch, Gentoo, Arch etc so
that you learn how a linux system works... i just about to do this -
my New Year resolution!!!
james
NoOp
> On Sat, Dec 24, 2011 at 6:46 PM, Phil Dobbin <bukows...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Try 'em both, pick which one you like & be thankful it ain't Windoze ;-)
>
> +1, but have decided to give Ubuntu a first try, I guess the reasons
> to adopt it are more.
Were you planning to try that as:
Parshwa Murdia <ubunt...@gmail.com>
PM <ubunt...@gmail.com>
Linux Tyro <ubunt...@gmail.com>
Linux Tyro <opensu...@gmail.com
PM <real...@hmamail.com>
LinuxIsOne <linux...@gmail.com>
LinuxIsOne <real...@hmamail.com>
PM <mathsre...@gmail.com>
Rameshwar Kr. Sharma <mathsre...@gmail.com>
or
Praful Patel <person...@fastmail.fm>
?
...
Rameshwar Kr. Sharma
> After you have tried searching and trying on your own, and not having
> success, then consider the list. Describe your system, explain what
> you want to do, what you have done and how it failed, and ask for
> advice. You will likely get help here.
Ok, thanks for the suggestion.
Rameshwar Kr. Sharma
> I would suggest you try a few distros... but to save a bitter
> experience with your main PC. Get hold of a spare machine so you can
> test to your hearts content... and still able to use your main machine
> for work and emails. Later the test machine can be used for a linux
> MUST-DO -- an installation of Linux From Scratch, Gentoo, Arch etc so
> that you learn how a linux system works... i just about to do this -
> my New Year resolution!!!
Ok, trying live cds and then see.
Rameshwar Kr. Sharma
I don't know what your research says you, but is not the case, you
have gone with, furthermore, my name is just Rameshwar Kumar Sharma.
That's all.
Nils Kassube
> On Sat, Dec 24, 2011 at 11:23:27PM +0530, Rameshwar Kr. Sharma wrote:
> > On Sat, Dec 24, 2011 at 11:08 PM, Robert Holtzman <hol...@cox.net>
wrote:
> > > Giving you the benefit of the doubt that you're not a troll,
> > > before you leap to post a question to this, or any other, list
> > > when you get stuck, *please* read
> > >
> > > http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#rtfm
> >
> > Bad, not a good language, behave like Liam! Shame on you!
>
> I have no idea what you're talking about!
I'm not sure, but I think he means the way the text is written. IMHO it
intimidates people, especially newbies. When I first read that text, I
thought the author meant to say: "Don't ask questions unless you have
spent a long time to do everything else possible to find a solution. And
if you then really need to ask, prove to us that you have done your
homework." Therefore I would never point anyone to that text even though
the contents is useful. It is just the way it is written which makes it
a bad text.
Nils
Rameshwar Kr. Sharma
>> > > Giving you the benefit of the doubt that you're not a troll,
>> > > before you leap to post a question to this, or any other, list
>> > > when you get stuck, *please* read
>> > > http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#rtfm
>> > Bad, not a good language, behave like Liam! Shame on you!
>> I have no idea what you're talking about!
> I'm not sure, but I think he means the way the text is written. IMHO it
> intimidates people, especially newbies. When I first read that text, I
> thought the author meant to say: "Don't ask questions unless you have
> spent a long time to do everything else possible to find a solution. And
> if you then really need to ask, prove to us that you have done your
> homework." Therefore I would never point anyone to that text even though
> the contents is useful. It is just the way it is written which makes it
> a bad text.
If it hurts, I really feel sorry, but yes Nils is right. I just meant
that you could have used a little more sweet language, a sober way to
communicate.
Ric Moore
> Robert Holtzman wrote:
>> On Sat, Dec 24, 2011 at 11:23:27PM +0530, Rameshwar Kr. Sharma wrote:
>>> On Sat, Dec 24, 2011 at 11:08 PM, Robert Holtzman<hol...@cox.net>
> wrote:
>>>> Giving you the benefit of the doubt that you're not a troll,
>>>> before you leap to post a question to this, or any other, list
>>>> when you get stuck, *please* read
>>>>
>>>> http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#rtfm
>>>
>>> Bad, not a good language, behave like Liam! Shame on you!
>>
>> I have no idea what you're talking about!
>
> I'm not sure, but I think he means the way the text is written. IMHO it
> intimidates people, especially newbies. When I first read that text, I
> thought the author meant to say: "Don't ask questions unless you have
> spent a long time to do everything else possible to find a solution. And
> if you then really need to ask, prove to us that you have done your
> homework." Therefore I would never point anyone to that text even though
> the contents is useful. It is just the way it is written which makes it
> a bad text.
But, no matter how blunt it is, you have to admit it is a universal
net-norm. Just maybe reading it once is a good thing so someone knows
just why they are getting panged on. Call it "Tough Love". And, as soon
as you state it's a bad text, then it can be ignored.
Mr Shamar seems to think that everyone is going to be like Liam and
offer up all sorts of information, personally, instead of googling to
find an answer on his own, and then declares "Shame on you!" for not
compiling. If Liam wants to feed him, Liam can take him home.
It is a matter of respect to do some basic research, then state "Well, I
tried this and that." That gets respect back as respect is given first.
So, it's a kindness to refer the newbie to that link, instead of him
winding up in everyone's junk filter. My two cents... Ric
--
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
http://linuxcounter.net/user/44256.html
--
Rameshwar Kr. Sharma
> But, no matter how blunt it is, you have to admit it is a universal
> net-norm. Just maybe reading it once is a good thing so someone knows just
> why they are getting panged on. Call it "Tough Love". And, as soon as you
> state it's a bad text, then it can be ignored.
> Mr Shamar seems to think that everyone is going to be like Liam and offer up
> all sorts of information, personally, instead of googling to find an answer
> on his own, and then declares "Shame on you!" for not compiling. If Liam
> wants to feed him, Liam can take him home.
> It is a matter of respect to do some basic research, then state "Well, I
> tried this and that." That gets respect back as respect is given first. So,
> it's a kindness to refer the newbie to that link, instead of him winding up
> in everyone's junk filter. My two cents... Ric
Ric, I agree with you to do basic research first, but the language too
should be sober to communicate, IMHO. I am not saying that Liam or
anyone is taking someone home, but IMO, the way of communicating he
uses here is better and even I was searching at Google if PCBSD offers
a live cd or not which Liam himself didn't say since it is the basic
thing I can do myself. Not criticizing you, but IMHO, if we use sober
language, humanity flourishes more - never downgraded, that's all.
Nils Kassube
Granted, I didn't use the right words because it isn't really a bad
text. Maybe I should have better written it more like "the link
shouldn't be used without a disclaimer concerning the style of the
text".
Nils
Robert Spanjaard
>> > > http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#rtfm
>> >
>> > Bad, not a good language, behave like Liam! Shame on you!
>>
>> I have no idea what you're talking about!
>
> I'm not sure, but I think he means the way the text is written. IMHO it
> intimidates people, especially newbies. When I first read that text, I
> thought the author meant to say: "Don't ask questions unless you have
> spent a long time to do everything else possible to find a solution. And
> if you then really need to ask, prove to us that you have done your
> homework." Therefore I would never point anyone to that text even though
> the contents is useful. It is just the way it is written which makes it
> a bad text.
And it may not be useful at all. It's not that hard to make the problemm
*worse* by doing "everything else possible to find a solution".
Then, when the newbie finally requests help from the list, the people on
the list have to deal with a completely messed up system.
--
Regards, Robert http://www.arumes.com
Cybe R. Wizard
> Robert Holtzman wrote:
> > On Sat, Dec 24, 2011 at 11:23:27PM +0530, Rameshwar Kr. Sharma
> > wrote:
> > > On Sat, Dec 24, 2011 at 11:08 PM, Robert Holtzman
> > > <hol...@cox.net>
> wrote:
> > > > Giving you the benefit of the doubt that you're not a troll,
> > > > before you leap to post a question to this, or any other, list
> > > > when you get stuck, *please* read
> > > >
> > > > http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#rtfm
> > >
> > > Bad, not a good language, behave like Liam! Shame on you!
> >
> > I have no idea what you're talking about!
>
> I'm not sure, but I think he means the way the text is written. IMHO
> it intimidates people, especially newbies. When I first read that
> text, I thought the author meant to say: "Don't ask questions unless
> you have spent a long time to do everything else possible to find a
> solution. And if you then really need to ask, prove to us that you
> have done your homework." Therefore I would never point anyone to
> that text even though the contents is useful. It is just the way it
> is written which makes it a bad text.
>
> Nils
>
In response I'd just like to point out two sentences in ESR's page:
"When this happens, the worst thing you can do is whine about the
experience, claim to have been verbally assaulted, demand apologies,
scream, hold your breath, threaten lawsuits, complain to people's
employers, leave the toilet seat up, etc. Instead, here's what you do:
Get over it. It's normal. In fact, it's healthy and appropriate."
Cybe R. Wizard
--
Strength through Unity.
Unity through faith.
Adam Sutler
NoOp
> On Sun, Dec 25, 2011 at 8:16 AM, NoOp <gl...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> I don't know what your research says you, but is not the case, you
> have gone with, furthermore, my name is just Rameshwar Kumar Sharma.
> That's all.
Right...
> Received: by 10.182.192.103 with SMTP id hf7mr17983002obc.29.1324790173782;
> Sat, 24 Dec 2011 21:16:13 -0800 (PST)
> Sender: linux...@gmail.com
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Message-ID:
> <CAG-YhMszTu-ohaqzC-SJzqc0rM=SDP0RhYO8yP...@mail.gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Newbie query: Ubuntu vs openSUSE
> From: "Rameshwar Kr. Sharma" <mathsre...@gmail.com>
Robert Holtzman
......snip.....
>
> If it hurts, I really feel sorry, but yes Nils is right. I just meant
> that you could have used a little more sweet language, a sober way to
> communicate.
Look people,
I assume we're all adults here and can distinguish between bad speech
(whatever the hell that is) and direct speech. If you find being
addressed directly offensive, I'm sorry but that's the way the world is
sometimes. That's the way some people speak. Deal with it without
inferring hidden meanings. I get irritable when I'm told to walk on egg
shells so as not to offend someone's overly delicate sensibilities.
Golly old chums, I have a wizard idea. Why don't we kill this manners
lesson and return to our originally scheduled program: Linux/Ubuntu?
LinuxIsOne
> Golly old chums, I have a wizard idea. Why don't we kill this manners
> lesson and return to our originally scheduled program: Linux/Ubuntu?
Can we please stop this thread here itself?
LinuxIsOne
> Why don't we kill this manners lesson and return to our originally scheduled program: Linux/Ubuntu?
And yes when OP has know about the differences between the openSUSE and Ubuntu!
Robert Holtzman
.........snip..........
>
> Ric, I agree with you to do basic research first, but the language too
> should be sober to communicate, IMHO. I am not saying that Liam or
> anyone is taking someone home, but IMO, the way of communicating he
> uses here is better and even I was searching at Google if PCBSD offers
> a live cd or not which Liam himself didn't say since it is the basic
> thing I can do myself. Not criticizing you, but IMHO, if we use sober
> language, humanity flourishes more - never downgraded, that's all.
Somewhere, long ago, I read that one of the prerequisites for
participating in mailing lists and news groups is to develope a thick
skin. I took that to heart and have been happier than a pig rolling in
mud ever since. I wish I could remember the source.
James Freer
> Then, when the newbie finally requests help from the list, the people on
> the list have to deal with a completely messed up system.
Let's give this thread an end shall we.
I think several folk early on gave good advice and i think my own was
appropriate regarding testing distros on a spare machine
in order
a] to learn linux [e.g. updating etc] as well as individual distros.
b] by using a single machine one will then know whether a problem is that
PC or the distro.
When learning there is no substitute for self teaching by testing and
experimenting. When i asked a technical question once about Aptitude i had
rudeness which was totally out of order. That's the way this list seems to
be going.
james
Cybe R. Wizard
Robert Holtzman <hol...@cox.net> wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 25, 2011 at 12:53:09PM +0530, Rameshwar Kr. Sharma wrote:
>
> .........snip..........
> >
> > Ric, I agree with you to do basic research first, but the language
> > too should be sober to communicate, IMHO. I am not saying that Liam
> > or anyone is taking someone home, but IMO, the way of communicating
> > he uses here is better and even I was searching at Google if PCBSD
> > offers a live cd or not which Liam himself didn't say since it is
> > the basic thing I can do myself. Not criticizing you, but IMHO, if
> > we use sober language, humanity flourishes more - never downgraded,
> > that's all.
>
> Somewhere, long ago, I read that one of the prerequisites for
> participating in mailing lists and news groups is to develope a thick
> skin. I took that to heart and have been happier than a pig rolling in
> mud ever since. I wish I could remember the source.
>
Kudos, Robert, for recognizing a troll early on. The rest of you,
learn from this; if it looks like a duck, quacks and is greasy eating,
then...
Cybe R. Wizard -and, NoOp, well spotted
--
Strength through Unity.
Unity through faith.
Adam Sutler
--
Craig White
> On 12/24/2011 05:31 AM, Rameshwar Kr. Sharma wrote:
> > On Sat, Dec 24, 2011 at 6:46 PM, Phil Dobbin <bukows...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Try 'em both, pick which one you like & be thankful it ain't Windoze ;-)
> >
> > +1, but have decided to give Ubuntu a first try, I guess the reasons
> > to adopt it are more.
>
> Were you planning to try that as:
> Parshwa Murdia <ubunt...@gmail.com>
> PM <ubunt...@gmail.com>
> Linux Tyro <ubunt...@gmail.com>
> Linux Tyro <opensu...@gmail.com
> PM <real...@hmamail.com>
> LinuxIsOne <linux...@gmail.com>
> LinuxIsOne <real...@hmamail.com>
> PM <mathsre...@gmail.com>
> Rameshwar Kr. Sharma <mathsre...@gmail.com>
> or
> Praful Patel <person...@fastmail.fm>
> ?
as mentioned in PM... I don't believe that list, while impressive is
actually exhaustive but I think indicative of what at least CentOS
(where he was run fairly quickly), Fedora, OpenSuSE and Ubuntu lists
have had to endure.
This one...
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2011-December/255888.html
has troll written backwards, forwards, upside down and sideways.
Oh and this message to Ubuntu list...
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2011-December/255889.html
is followed up with his 'pastebin' on Fedora list (not the Ubuntu
link)..
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/users/2011-December/411046.html
(note to NoOp - Swapnil Bhartiya swapnil....@gmail.com another ID
for your list and I'm quite sure there is more).
and especially amusing is his using another ID to reply to himself
suggesting to use OpenSuSE...
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/users/2011-December/411022.html
Regardless of his ID - he is a waste of time and energy
Craig
--
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