Dead List Walking
sktsee
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil/TeamReports/11/April
Meeting 2011-04-19
CC decided to close the Sounders mailing list. In essence, this is a
decision to prune areas of the project which are offtopic or ungoverned,
on the basis that they distract from our shared community focus on the
goal of delivering free software in the best possible state, on
particular terms (free of charge, cadence). While we appreciate that the
Sounders list (and possibly other, similar forums) provide a particular
social release for those who use them, we think there are better forums
for each of the varied topics discussed there. Some of those are inside
the project, most are elsewhere.
Transcript of IRC meeting log here:
http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/04/19/%23ubuntu-meeting.html
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sktsee
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Liam Proven
> Heh, my first, and last post to this list.
>
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil/TeamReports/11/April
>
> Meeting 2011-04-19
>
> CC decided to close the Sounders mailing list. In essence, this is a
> decision to prune areas of the project which are offtopic or ungoverned,
> on the basis that they distract from our shared community focus on the
> goal of delivering free software in the best possible state, on
> particular terms (free of charge, cadence). While we appreciate that the
> Sounders list (and possibly other, similar forums) provide a particular
> social release for those who use them, we think there are better forums
> for each of the varied topics discussed there. Some of those are inside
> the project, most are elsewhere.
>
> Transcript of IRC meeting log here:
> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/04/19/%23ubuntu-meeting.html
>
> --
> sktsee
"We finally really did it. You maniacs! You blew it up! Damn you. God
damn you all to hell!"
Thanks a ******* lot, Popey, you ****** ******* *******.
Do folk think there's any point starting our own mailing list to
replace Sounder or should we just disband?
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Edward Craig
Pity, occasionally this was a fun read
Anthony Papillion
spearhead the effort to shut down the list, it doesn't look like there
was a whole lot of constructive alternatives discussed and, from what
I saw, nobody even showed up to the CC meeting to defend Sounder. Of
course, perhaps someone showed up late to the meeting as I'm not
through the transcript yet but it looks like there was nobody.
I'm also not sure what the purpose of reforming the Sounder list
somewhere else might be - or the value. While I've gotten value from
this list, I have to say it's nothing that can't be found elsewhere.
Want to discuss Ubuntu or Linux in general? There are lists for that.
Politics? Tech? Religion? There are lists for those too. I'm not
entirely convinced that a good list should or even can sustain all of
those topics and keep quality.
The one thing I *can* and *do* fault popey on is that his decision to
propose shutting Sounder down seems to have been more emotionally than
critically motivated. It's even briefly addressed in the CC meeting
because they knew many of us would see it that way. It all just seems
a little to slap on the wrist for my tastes.
Sad to see Sounder go but I suppose I can see both sides.
Anthony
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Mike Basinger
On Apr 19, 2011, at 3:57 PM, Liam Proven wrote:
>>
>
> "We finally really did it. You maniacs! You blew it up! Damn you. God
> damn you all to hell!"
>
> Thanks a ******* lot, Popey, you ****** ******* *******.
>
This decision was made by a quorum of community council, including myself, and not just Mr. Pope. Further attacks against Alan will not be tolerated.
Mr. Proven comments show we probably made the right decision.
Mike Basinger
Community Council
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David Gerard
> Further attacks against Alan will not be tolerated.
Er, you've already condemned the list to death. What further penalty
were you thinking of?
- d.
Anthony Papillion
I don't doubt that the list has been a concern for the CC for a while.
The more I think about it, the more I see that shutting it down was a
*logical* thing to do, especially in light of the fact that no
alternatives were proposed to doing so.
As for popey not being emotionally driven, I'm not entirely convinced
of that but it's irrelevant at this point and not worth debating
really. I think a better question to focus on is "where do we go from
here?"
Is the CC decision final? Is there no hope for sounder or can it still
be saved if a good plan for its governance can be proposed to the CC?
Like I said, shutting it down is logical in light of its current state
but what other options are there?
Anthony
David Sanders
Whatever the reasoning, it's disappointing for those Ubuntu users who
found this list useful for general chit-chat.
For the last few years I've been a near-evangelist for how great
Ubuntu is, not just as an OS, but as an example of free and
non-corporate development. Mark Shuttleworth has always seemed to
take a real interest in running the show and being approachable. This
is what originally gave me the impression that Ubuntu was a "friendly"
project which could contain real people. If we're to see a corporate
lock-down on communications a la Apple or Microsoft (or Oracle, or
Cisco etc ad infinitum) then I really forces to me to re-evaluate what
the project stands for.
If it was originally intended to put better software than Windows in
the hands of the masses then it's currently failing, as Unity is
frankly far worse than the windowing system in Windows 7 (and yes I
have been using it - it's basically a worse version of Gnome 2.x +
Global Menu + AWN, thanks for ignoring these other excellent
projects), and it is literally light-years behind OS X, despite
stealing the ideas. The Windows 7 quicklaunch dock-ripoff is a much
better implementation than the default left-bar in Unity in terms of
dragging, dropping and clicking. as is AWN.
If Ubuntu was also intended as a way of breaking a dull, corporate
hegemony in software then the project should also be careful that this
isn't what it turns itself into.
So the software has now become rather poor and the structure seems to
be getting worse by the day, and I seriously think it's time to
change. With that in mind, I'm off to use Debian unstable, like I used
to. My commercial work is Ubuntu-based (and indeed gets quite a few
Ubu-based boxen out into the wild) so it'll be a bit of a switch, but
if you're not listening to users then you're on a path to nowhere.
It's been a ride Ubuntu.
David
Mike Basinger
Mike Basinger
I personally think Sounder has ran its course and it is time to go.
Mike
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Mike Basinger
Anthony Papillion
yet. So let's discuss what changes might be needed in order to make
this a list Canonical sees value in keeping and subscribers still can
derive value from.
Thoughts? Ideas?
I'd like to *strongly* suggest loose moderation. Nothing too crazy but
just enough to stop the religious and political wars from getting as
hateful as they have. I'd even volunteer to help out with that.
David Gerard
> a list Canonical sees value in keeping
What are they after? It's entirely unclear. What is the desired
community? Can it be achieved by progressive slice-at-a-time
amputation?
> I'd like to *strongly* suggest loose moderation. Nothing too crazy but
> just enough to stop the religious and political wars from getting as
> hateful as they have. I'd even volunteer to help out with that.
/me tags you as "it"
- d.
Mike Basinger
Mike
--
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David Gerard
> On Apr 19, 2011, at 4:37 PM, David Gerard wrote:
>> On 19 April 2011 23:17, Mike Basinger <mike.b...@ubuntu.com> wrote:
>>> Further attacks against Alan will not be tolerated.
>> Er, you've already condemned the list to death. What further penalty
>> were you thinking of?
> You right, that was a poor choice of words.
Yes, but I was sincerely asking: what did you have in mind when you
wrote those words? What further penalty were you thinking of?
This is important to understanding the mindset of the CC at this time.
chris
>
> Do folk think there's any point starting our own mailing list to
> replace Sounder or should we just disband?
>
start a new list
CT
Anthony Papillion
It seems like they are after quality and not being a conduit for
meaningless flamewars about politics, religion, and sometimes Linux. I
definitely don't speak for *anyone* in the community and I'd love for
someone on the CC to articulate a bit better just what is so *wrong*
with Sounder that it needs to be shut down. I think *reform* is the
solution, not amputation.
Anthony
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Anthony Papillion
Ok. Makes sense if you don't think about it lol
Mike Basinger
Is Sounder closing: yes
Would the CC listen to a suggestion something Sounder-like being created in the future: maybe but unlikely unless it was radically different
Mike
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Mike Basinger
Mike
On Apr 19, 2011, at 5:15 PM, David Gerard wrote:
> On 19 April 2011 23:59, Mike Basinger <mike.b...@ubuntu.com> wrote:
>> On Apr 19, 2011, at 4:37 PM, David Gerard wrote:
>>> On 19 April 2011 23:17, Mike Basinger <mike.b...@ubuntu.com> wrote:
>
>>>> Further attacks against Alan will not be tolerated.
>
>>> Er, you've already condemned the list to death. What further penalty
>>> were you thinking of?
>
>> You right, that was a poor choice of words.
>
>
> Yes, but I was sincerely asking: what did you have in mind when you
> wrote those words? What further penalty were you thinking of?
>
> This is important to understanding the mindset of the CC at this time.
>
>
> - d.
--
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Michael Haney
> The CC is not in a "out to get you mindset" if that is what you mean. If thing get out of hand here now, I will put the list on the moderation until the list in closed.
>
> Mike
>
To make it short, closing down Sounder is a Bad Idea.
You can claim the decision wasn't emotionally motivated or a political
decision all you want but its what the community will "think the
reasons were" that counts. The wise and more level headed decisions
would be to moderate the Sounder list than to close it completely.
That way the CC could avoid the "appearance" of impropriety and not
loose any of its credibility with the community. As it is, word will
spread and there will be rumors and rumors are very hard to stamp out.
Canonical is causing more trouble for itself by closing Sounder than
they are resolving any issues. In other words, this decision will
come back to haunt you.
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Liam Proven
>>>
>>
>> "We finally really did it. You maniacs! You blew it up! Damn you. God
>> damn you all to hell!"
>>
>> Thanks a ******* lot, Popey, you ****** ******* *******.
>>
>
> This decision was made by a quorum of community council, including myself, and not just Mr. Pope. Further attacks against Alan will not be tolerated.
>
> Mr. Proven comments show we probably made the right decision.
>
> Mike Basinger
> Community Council
As it happens, Alan & I have known one another online for something
like 15 or 20 years, not only since before Sounder or Ubuntu itself,
but before Mark Shuttleworth founded Thawte. I will call him what I
wish, just as I would to his face.
Why, what are you going to do? Ban me from a list that you're shutting
down? For posting a line of asterisks?
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Anthony Papillion
radically different and address some of the issues that Sounder failed
to address.
What issues?
What specifically is wrong with Sounder that needs to be addressed?
And please go beyond the "it's filled its purpose" because that's a
bit too vague. What would a Sounder replacement need to look like in
your opinion (I realize you can't speak for the entire CC)?
Liam Proven
>
> Whatever the reasoning, it's disappointing for those Ubuntu users who
> found this list useful for general chit-chat.
Agreed.
> For the last few years I've been a near-evangelist for how great
> Ubuntu is, not just as an OS, but as an example of free and
> non-corporate development. Mark Shuttleworth has always seemed to
> take a real interest in running the show and being approachable. This
> is what originally gave me the impression that Ubuntu was a "friendly"
> project which could contain real people.
Absolutely, very strongly agreed.
> If we're to see a corporate
> lock-down on communications a la Apple or Microsoft (or Oracle, or
> Cisco etc ad infinitum) then I really forces to me to re-evaluate what
> the project stands for.
Definitely. For me, the first sign of the corporate rot setting in was
when the Ubuntu Lite project received a warning that it must change
its name or face prosecution for infringing a trademark.
I understand the need, but that kind of behaviour is not being a good
citizen to my mind.
> If it was originally intended to put better software than Windows in
> the hands of the masses then it's currently failing, as Unity is
> frankly far worse than the windowing system in Windows 7 (and yes I
> have been using it - it's basically a worse version of Gnome 2.x +
> Global Menu + AWN, thanks for ignoring these other excellent
> projects), and it is literally light-years behind OS X, despite
> stealing the ideas. The Windows 7 quicklaunch dock-ripoff is a much
> better implementation than the default left-bar in Unity in terms of
> dragging, dropping and clicking. as is AWN.
Agreed again, actually. Reluctantly and slightly to my surprise, but
yes, it's true.
> If Ubuntu was also intended as a way of breaking a dull, corporate
> hegemony in software then the project should also be careful that this
> isn't what it turns itself into.
Hear, hear!
> So the software has now become rather poor and the structure seems to
> be getting worse by the day, and I seriously think it's time to
> change. With that in mind, I'm off to use Debian unstable, like I used
> to. My commercial work is Ubuntu-based (and indeed gets quite a few
> Ubu-based boxen out into the wild) so it'll be a bit of a switch, but
> if you're not listening to users then you're on a path to nowhere.
>
> It's been a ride Ubuntu.
I am going to give 11.04 a try, but I suspect that Mint is where I am heading.
If I don't start a fork myself. ;¬)
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Douglas Pollard
> On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 7:34 PM, Mike Basinger<mike.b...@ubuntu.com> wrote:
>> The CC is not in a "out to get you mindset" if that is what you mean. If thing get out of hand here now, I will put the list on the moderation until the list in closed.
>>
>> Mike
>>
> To make it short, closing down Sounder is a Bad Idea.
>
> You can claim the decision wasn't emotionally motivated or a political
> decision all you want but its what the community will "think the
> reasons were" that counts. The wise and more level headed decisions
> would be to moderate the Sounder list than to close it completely.
> That way the CC could avoid the "appearance" of impropriety and not
> loose any of its credibility with the community. As it is, word will
> spread and there will be rumors and rumors are very hard to stamp out.
>
> Canonical is causing more trouble for itself by closing Sounder than
> they are resolving any issues. In other words, this decision will
> come back to haunt you.
>
problem with e-mail lists. Most list don't allow the group to stray of
topic. This means that arguments generally can't go anywhere or settle
anything. A list that allows real destructive flaming and one that allow
absolutely no off topic always fail. These will close because it
frustrating to not be able to carry and argument through and the same
for not being able start an argument at all. Flaming does not address
the subject but instead disgusts everyone and eventually the flamer.
Nobody gets much satisfaction out of either one. Very few arguments can
stay on a strict topic and achieve anything so authority is need to
bring it back to some resemblance to topic. A list can't be a
conversation list without conversation and that can't exist without some
argument. Set five people in a circle talking and an argument will
break out, if it doesn't, tomorrow someone will say those guys don't
talk about anything and he won't be back and the next day, and next day.
I was very happy to find Sounder and I thought I had found a place
for discussion. Discussion where everyone agrees is less than
worthless. Sounder has been a place to feel a part of a community with
varied as well as Ubuntu interests. I think a few were aggravated
simply by their lack of control and there was a small meeting and most
only had to agree. That's always easy and never good. Closing the list
is not a solution it is a failure.
My thinking is that a conversation list needs a certain amount of
guidance to keep it within some boundary but it should not be too heavy
handed as this decision seems to me to be. I feel as though though this
community is being bullied and I don't like it when Government does it.
I don't like it when religion does it and I don't like it when my
software group does it. I will find some place to carry on conversation
on line. It just probobly won't be an ubuntu group if there is none to
talk on. All I can say is I hope this group made as much difference to
some others as it did for me. Doug
Liam Proven
Well said, Doug.
It feels to me like a bunch of managers who are not members of the
little Sounder community have stepped in and said "nope, stop that,
it's silly and occasionally rude." They're not participants, have
never been involved, but because someone has thrown a tizzy, they're
happy enough to step in and break up something they were never part of
themselves.
As for there being lots of other places - well, I don't use web fora,
as they are far too clumsy and slow and generally have no threading. I
don't use IRC as it's a terrible time-waster. So it's mailing lists or
real life, for me. I know of no other Ubuntu community list anything
like this.
So I guess it's goodnight from me, and it's goodnight from him.
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Fred A. Miller
On 19 April 2011 22:45, sktsee <skt...@gmail.com> wrote:Heh, my first, and last post to this list. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil/TeamReports/11/April Meeting 2011-04-19 CC decided to close the Sounders mailing list. In essence, this is a decision to prune areas of the project which are offtopic or ungoverned, on the basis that they distract from our shared community focus on the goal of delivering free software in the best possible state, on particular terms (free of charge, cadence). While we appreciate that the Sounders list (and possibly other, similar forums) provide a particular social release for those who use them, we think there are better forums for each of the varied topics discussed there. Some of those are inside the project, most are elsewhere. Transcript of IRC meeting log here: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/04/19/%23ubuntu-meeting.html -- sktsee"We finally really did it. You maniacs! You blew it up! Damn you. God damn you all to hell!" Thanks a ******* lot, Popey, you ****** ******* *******. Do folk think there's any point starting our own mailing list to replace Sounder or should we just disband?
Fred
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Elizabeth Krumbach
> Canonical is causing more trouble for itself by closing Sounder than
> they are resolving any issues. In other words, this decision will
> come back to haunt you.
I think there is some confusion here. It's not Canonical who is
shutting down the list, it's the Ubuntu Community Council[0] which
came to the decision, most of us don't work for Canonical.
[0] https://launchpad.net/~communitycouncil/+members
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Samuel Thurston
> We were very surprised that no one showed up at the meeting to defend Sounder or give any possible alternatives. As this being emotionally driven by popey, it was not. Sounder has been an issue on the CC radar for some time, popey just saw that thing were not improving.
I was warned that I should attend this meeting after being assured by
Alan that it would be pushed to 3rd May. I chose to disregard this as
I thought I could count on Alan to be an honest actor in this matter.
In the links of his evidence, other alternatives WERE offered...
namely one of moderating the list, which you have proposed as a
punitive action for "statements unbecoming."
Ironic.
Samuel Thurston
> The CC is not in a "out to get you mindset" if that is what you mean. If thing get out of hand here now, I will put the list on the moderation until the list in closed.
By all means put the list on moderation as that was a proposed
solution in the "Condensed Version" of my defense of the list, which
Alan "objectively" neglected to present in its entirety.
Paul Sladen
> Thanks a ******* lot, [named individual], you ****** ******* *******.
QED.
-Paul
PS. http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct The ambiguity behind
those asterisks is completely unacceptable and undesired. Thank you.
Samuel Thurston
> On Tue, 19 Apr 2011, Liam Proven wrote:
>> Thanks a ******* lot, [named individual], you ****** ******* *******.
>
> QED.
>
> -Paul
>
> PS. http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct The ambiguity behind
> those asterisks is completely unacceptable and undesired. Thank you.
Ah, but if you are in [Named Individual]'s camp and support the
closure of the list, you could put happy words back there! think of
it as "Mad Libs":
> Thanks a *tremendous* lot, [named individual], you *fine* *human* *being*.
It's not our fault you have a dirty mind. :)
Cybe R. Wizard
Paul Sladen <ubu...@paul.sladen.org> wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Apr 2011, Liam Proven wrote:
> > Thanks a ******* lot, [named individual], you ****** *******
> > *******.
>
> QED.
>
> -Paul
>
> PS. http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct The ambiguity behind
> those asterisks is completely unacceptable and undesired. Thank you.
>
By whom? It looks like the Ubuntu users who inhabit this list agree
with Liam, not you. But then, its the managers who count, right? Its
never the actual users. They are just the drones /who make it all
possible/.
Really, without dedicated, willing and happy users Ubuntu would be
...slackware.
Think about it while the echoes fade.
Cybe R. Wizard
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Paul Sladen
> By whom?
Myself. As a member of the Ubuntu community. Personal attacks are
clearly at odds with the Ubuntu Code of Conduct's paragraphs on being
considerate and respectful:
http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct
> Really, without dedicated, willing and happy users Ubuntu
Both Debian and Ubuntu have excellent online archives of email threads
and IRC discussions. Reading these is a very good method for working
out who the *dedicated and willing* contributors are.
In fact, those public archives from Debian were so useful that they
were the initial filtering approach used by Mark Shuttleworth before
making contact with Debian developers who would go on to form the
original Ubuntu platform team in 2004. You can read about in an
interview with Jeff Waugh from 2007 (it involves a Russian ice-breaker
in Antarctica!) :
http://www.linuxformat.co.uk/wiki/index.php/Jeff_Waugh_-_interview
Coming back to April 2011 and looking at the discussion at the CC;
http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/04/19/%23ubuntu-meeting.html#t12:24
...perhaps I missed your IRC nickname in the logs. Was there a point
that you raised during the meeting which you feel may have been
missed?
-Paul
chris
> On 04/19/2011 05:57 PM, Liam Proven wrote:
>
> Sure, if someone can host it.
>
> Fred
And as a protest I will be moving to Debian stable.
--
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Paul Sladen
> On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 9:30 PM, Paul Sladen <ubu...@paul.sladen.org> wrote:
> > On Tue, 19 Apr 2011, Liam Proven wrote:
> > > Thanks a ******* lot, [named individual], you ****** ******* *******.
> > QED.
I had not formed an opinion either way until approximately an hour ago.
-Paul
Cybe R. Wizard
Paul Sladen <ubu...@paul.sladen.org> wrote:
> Coming back to April 2011 and looking at the discussion at the CC;
>
> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/04/19/%23ubuntu-meeting.html#t12:24
>
> ...perhaps I missed your IRC nickname in the logs. Was there a point
> that you raised during the meeting which you feel may have been
> missed?
>
> -Paul
Not at all; as I have communicated several places in private, I agree
with the fact that Ubuntu needs rid of Sounder. Allowing any dissent
is inadvisable when one is neglecting and disavowing ones users wishes.
Your own inability to see that Alan misled Samuel (whether intentionally
or not) is just one case in point.
BTW, did you yet solve that user dilemma in the bug report to which I
pointed you? I haven't heard back about that and you seemed /so/
interested in doing right for, "us," Ubuntu users.
It is happening (has happened) just as I predicted and, as I also
predicted, after today I will no longer grace the Ubuntu lists or
project and will actively seek to move others toward either Debian or
some more sensible distro that doesn't mind having users with actual
minds of their own and doesn't mind and get all antsy about their usage
of same.
Cybe R. Wizard
--
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Registered Ubuntu User # 2136
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Fred A. Miller
On Tue, 2011-04-19 at 21:53 -0400, Fred A. Miller wrote:On 04/19/2011 05:57 PM, Liam Proven wrote:<snip>Sure, if someone can host it. FredMy vote would be yes. And as a protest I will be moving to Debian stable.
Fred
Basil Chupin
> On 19 April 2011 23:17, Mike Basinger<mike.b...@ubuntu.com> wrote:
>> On Apr 19, 2011, at 3:57 PM, Liam Proven wrote:
>>> "We finally really did it. You maniacs! You blew it up! Damn you. God
>>> damn you all to hell!"
>>>
>>> Thanks a ******* lot, Popey, you ****** ******* *******.
>>>
>> This decision was made by a quorum of community council, including myself, and not just Mr. Pope. Further attacks against Alan will not be tolerated.
>>
>> Mr. Proven comments show we probably made the right decision.
>>
>> Mike Basinger
>> Community Council
> like 15 or 20 years, not only since before Sounder or Ubuntu itself,
> but before Mark Shuttleworth founded Thawte. I will call him what I
> wish, just as I would to his face.
>
> Why, what are you going to do? Ban me from a list that you're shutting
> down? For posting a line of asterisks?
Reminds me of the story told (now abbreviated) when I was reading
Psychology in my first year at University.
A patient was being shown inkblots by a psychiatrist and was asked what
he (the patient) saw. As each inkblot was shown, the patient replied
that it was someone performing some sexual act with another person. At
the end of the test the psychiatrist told the patient that he definitely
had a psychotic condition of an abnormal sexual nature. "Look who's
talking!", replied the patient, "And who's been showing me all these
pornographic pictures then, eh?!".
BC
--
Great Man reaches complete understanding of the main issues; Petty Man reaches complete understanding of the minute details."
Confucius
Paul Sladen
> BTW, did you yet solve that user dilemma in the bug report to which I
> pointed you?
For the benefit of others; the bug report is:
"Doubt about the CoC" - filed on 2010-12-13
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-codeofconduct/+bug/689893
I believe a click on the link will list 'Paul Sladen' as being a
subscriber (top-right hand side). I subscribed at 2011-04-18 18:27:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-codeofconduct/+bug/689893/+activity
which is less than 3 hours after the email was sent. There have been
no comments since that email/my subscription:
2011-04-18 15:33
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/sounder/2011-April/016496.html
and no context (in the body or email title) was available in the
email, other than a link to bug #689893 itself.
It is currently eight days until the Ubuntu 11.04 release, so my
intention was to look at bug #689893 with others at the Ubuntu
Developer Summit in Budapest (in a fortnight) and then try and split
the large diff up into the separate proposals contained within it:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyReleaseSchedule
My first step at that stage (to aid with my own understanding) would
probably be to produce some prettier hand-optimised HTML wdiffs;
hopefully looking much like I did for comparing the Open Font License
with the Ubuntu Font Licence:
http://font.ubuntu.com/ufl/ofl-1.1-ufl-1.0.diff.html
Do you feel strongly that bug #689893 would benefit from more work in
advance of the Ubuntu 11.04 release? If so, could you describe some
of the context and background in more detail, and also possibly narrow
down exactly /what/ you'd like to see done before/at UDS.
(Since bug #689893 is *not* a release-Critical bug I am minded to
think that bug #689893 should be give the benefit of greater time and
space for consideration---at UDS).
Please let me know if I've missed anything out, or a part could do
with greater clarification.
-Paul
Cybe R. Wizard
Paul Sladen <ubu...@paul.sladen.org> wrote:
> Do you feel strongly that bug #689893 would benefit from more work in
> advance of the Ubuntu 11.04 release? If so, could you describe some
> of the context and background in more detail, and also possibly narrow
> down exactly /what/ you'd like to see done before/at UDS.
>
> (Since bug #689893 is *not* a release-Critical bug I am minded to
> think that bug #689893 should be give the benefit of greater time and
> space for consideration---at UDS).
>
> Please let me know if I've missed anything out, or a part could do
> with greater clarification.
>
> -Paul
Unfortunately too little interest too late as I am soon to be a happy
Debian user once again and have no more that a vague passing interest in
the CofC.
Cybe R. Wizard
--
Registered GNU/Linux user # 126326