Unity: Nothing can go wrong!
David Gerard
5 out of 11 testers managed to crash Unity:
http://digitizor.com/2011/04/15/crashed-unity-canonical-study/
How far are we from release day?
- d.
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David Gerard
> Nothing can go wrong! Nothing can go wr!"&%!£%"^!%£!"""@@@@@@@@@@@@
> 5 out of 11 testers managed to crash Unity:
> http://digitizor.com/2011/04/15/crashed-unity-canonical-study/
> How far are we from release day?
The rest of the results are pretty dismal too:
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2011-April/032988.html
Samuel Thurston
> On 16 April 2011 09:46, David Gerard <dge...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Nothing can go wrong! Nothing can go wr!"&%!£%"^!%£!"""@@@@@@@@@@@@
>> 5 out of 11 testers managed to crash Unity:
>> http://digitizor.com/2011/04/15/crashed-unity-canonical-study/
>> How far are we from release day?
>
>
> The rest of the results are pretty dismal too:
>
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2011-April/032988.html
>
>
You know, I wouldn't mind this so much. I'm a stubborn user and I
don't mind things being crashy, submitting bug reports, etc.
However, my concern is the impact this has on the linux desktop in a
larger context. This kind of bad press associated with the
most-popular linux distro in this day and age, may be just what it
took to set linux back another 5 years.
Planning to release a product with an unfinished and under-tested DE
is suicidally irresponsible. Much as I hate to say it I suspect that
canonical's days may be numbered as a result of this.
chris
> On Sat, Apr 16, 2011 at 3:58 AM, David Gerard <dge...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 16 April 2011 09:46, David Gerard <dge...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Nothing can go wrong! Nothing can go wr!"&%!£%"^!%£!"""@@@@@@@@@@@@
> >> 5 out of 11 testers managed to crash Unity:
> >> http://digitizor.com/2011/04/15/crashed-unity-canonical-study/
> >> How far are we from release day?
> >
> >
> > The rest of the results are pretty dismal too:
> >
> > https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2011-April/032988.html
> >
> >
>
>
> You know, I wouldn't mind this so much. I'm a stubborn user and I
> don't mind things being crashy, submitting bug reports, etc.
>
> However, my concern is the impact this has on the linux desktop in a
> larger context. This kind of bad press associated with the
> most-popular linux distro in this day and age, may be just what it
> took to set linux back another 5 years.
>
> Planning to release a product with an unfinished and under-tested DE
> is suicidally irresponsible. Much as I hate to say it I suspect that
> canonical's days may be numbered as a result of this.
>
Yes, I have been trying to make this point for some time. I personally
consider the drive to have a "release" every 6 months", could be an
indication of an unstable organisation. :-) Or as my wife puts it "you
insane lot".
I do personally know several people who have dumped Ubuntu, and moved to
Debian stable. Their argument being that they want a working system
they can use, not something that they have to triage and fiddle with
constantly.
--
Cheers the kiwi
David Gerard
> On Sat, 2011-04-16 at 12:50 -0500, Samuel Thurston wrote:
>> Planning to release a product with an unfinished and under-tested DE
>> is suicidally irresponsible. Much as I hate to say it I suspect that
>> canonical's days may be numbered as a result of this.
> Yes, I have been trying to make this point for some time. I personally
> consider the drive to have a "release" every 6 months", could be an
> indication of an unstable organisation. :-) Or as my wife puts it "you
> insane lot".
Proposal: that we deem Unity "Ubuntu Vista".
- d.
chris
> On 16 April 2011 21:06, chris <che...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Sat, 2011-04-16 at 12:50 -0500, Samuel Thurston wrote:
>
> >> Planning to release a product with an unfinished and under-tested DE
> >> is suicidally irresponsible. Much as I hate to say it I suspect that
> >> canonical's days may be numbered as a result of this.
>
> > Yes, I have been trying to make this point for some time. I personally
> > consider the drive to have a "release" every 6 months", could be an
> > indication of an unstable organisation. :-) Or as my wife puts it "you
> > insane lot".
>
>
> Proposal: that we deem Unity "Ubuntu Vista".
>
>
> - d.
>
+1
Fred A. Miller
[snip]
You know, I wouldn't mind this so much. I'm a stubborn user and I don't mind things being crashy, submitting bug reports, etc. However, my concern is the impact this has on the linux desktop in a larger context. This kind of bad press associated with the most-popular linux distro in this day and age, may be just what it took to set linux back another 5 years. Planning to release a product with an unfinished and under-tested DE is suicidally irresponsible. Much as I hate to say it I suspect that canonical's days may be numbered as a result of this.
and one that I fear will mortally wound Conical.
Fred
Samuel Thurston
> On Sat, 2011-04-16 at 12:50 -0500, Samuel Thurston wrote:
>> On Sat, Apr 16, 2011 at 3:58 AM, David Gerard <dge...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On 16 April 2011 09:46, David Gerard <dge...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Nothing can go wrong! Nothing can go wr!"&%!£%"^!%£!"""@@@@@@@@@@@@
>> >> 5 out of 11 testers managed to crash Unity:
>> >> http://digitizor.com/2011/04/15/crashed-unity-canonical-study/
>> >> How far are we from release day?
>> >
>> >
>> > The rest of the results are pretty dismal too:
>> >
>> > https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2011-April/032988.html
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> You know, I wouldn't mind this so much. I'm a stubborn user and I
>> don't mind things being crashy, submitting bug reports, etc.
>>
>> However, my concern is the impact this has on the linux desktop in a
>> larger context. This kind of bad press associated with the
>> most-popular linux distro in this day and age, may be just what it
>> took to set linux back another 5 years.
>>
>> Planning to release a product with an unfinished and under-tested DE
>> is suicidally irresponsible. Much as I hate to say it I suspect that
>> canonical's days may be numbered as a result of this.
>>
>
> Yes, I have been trying to make this point for some time. I personally
> consider the drive to have a "release" every 6 months", could be an
> indication of an unstable organisation. :-) Or as my wife puts it "you
> insane lot".
I don't think that this schedule is completely unreasonable. The
problem is when you make "big shifts" on this kind of timetable,
without having prepped the work in the background.
When I first heard that ubuntu would shift to unity I was skeptical
but optimistic that multitouch and other stuff being brought in along
with a new interface.
When i heard the reasons fedora was dumping unity, i expected ubuntu
to follow suit. Deeply dismaying that it did not.
>
> I do personally know several people who have dumped Ubuntu, and moved to
> Debian stable. Their argument being that they want a working system
> they can use, not something that they have to triage and fiddle with
> constantly.
Ugh, never going back to debian stable, having 2-year old software
isn't why I run linux. but I think we're going to see a mass exodus
with this release.
Fred A. Miller
[snip]
I do personally know several people who have dumped Ubuntu, and moved to > Debian stable. Their argument being that they want a working system > they can use, not something that they have to triage and fiddle with > constantly.Ugh, never going back to debian stable, having 2-year old software isn't why I run linux. but I think we're going to see a mass exodus with this release.
Fred
Samuel Thurston
I'm curious if you downloaded the daily build or the main beta image
from ubuntu.com. Either way this is a baffling development since
gnome3 was never a serious contender for the 11.04 default desktop in
my understanding.
Fred A. Miller
On Sat, Apr 16, 2011 at 6:46 PM, Fred A. Miller <fmi...@lightlink.com> wrote:On 04/16/2011 07:23 PM, Samuel Thurston wrote: [snip] I do personally know several people who have dumped Ubuntu, and moved toDebian stable. Their argument being that they want a working system they can use, not something that they have to triage and fiddle with constantly.Ugh, never going back to debian stable, having 2-year old software isn't why I run linux. but I think we're going to see a mass exodus with this release. I've stayed away from 11.4 till now. I d'led the 64-bit image, burned a disk, and booted it. I had understood that Unity was default. Why did 11.4 come up in Gnome 3? Do I have to install 11.4 to test it?! FredI'm curious if you downloaded the daily build or the main beta image from ubuntu.com. Either way this is a baffling development since gnome3 was never a serious contender for the 11.04 default desktop in my understanding.
a Unity startup....no options at all. The image is the 64-bit iso from the Ubuntu site. The
file name is: ubuntu-11.04-beta2-desktop-amd64.iso
Paul Sladen
> I personally consider the drive to have a "release" every 6 months",
The story line in Ubuntu is actually a *two-year cycle* between the
Long Term Support (LTS) releases. In the intermediate releases are
prep-work on the way to meeting each of those LTS encapsulations.
In between those is the six-month release cycle aligned from GNOME.
For developers three months of development and three months of
debugging is about right---much longer and people get itchy fingers
because they're bored of debugging and want to write something new.
For users, the six-month development cycle is arguably where Ubuntu
got its following from. It provided a balance between Debian sid and
Debian stable; going with Ubuntu meant getting fresh stuff configured
with sane defaults without being on the absolute bleeding edge.
-Paul
Paul Sladen
> On Sat, Apr 16, 2011 at 3:06 PM, chris <che...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The problem is when you make "big shifts" on this kind of
> timetable, without having prepped the work in the background.
Where Ubuntu has been successful is interative development. The Unity
design is an interation of the design shipped in UNR/Ubuntu 10.10;
what is unusual in this case is that the *implemenation* has been
written from-scratch, twice. There are now three Unity codebases:
1. Unity Clutter/Mutter (aka Ubuntu Netbook ... <= Ubuntu 10.10)
2. Unity Compiz (aka Unity 3D ... >= Ubuntu 11.04
3. Unity Qt (aka Unity 2D ... >= Ubuntu 11.04)
Of the three codebases, two have been written from-scratch over the
last release cycle. So whilst the the Unity interface *design* is
continuing to evolve the code implementations have not had that same
benefit this time around.
Software crashing is an implementation issue, rather than a design
issue. The work being done by Ayatana is continuing to evolve on an
interative basis; and for the next release cycle the Unity 2D/3D
codebases will also be iterations of what has gone before.
> When i heard the reasons fedora was dumping unity,
I am not aware of Fedora having planned to ship Unity by default. Do
you have links/URLs to give better context?
> > I do personally know several people who have dumped Ubuntu, and moved to
> > Debian stable. Their argument being that they want a workingsystem
Strangely, "having a working system" is mostly the argument why people
run Ubuntu over Debian Unstable. "Horses for courses".
-Paul
Paul Sladen
> I've stayed away from 11.4 till now. I d'led the 64-bit image, burned a
> disk, and booted it. I had understood that Unity was default. Why did
> 11.4 come up in Gnome 3? Do I have to install 11.4 to test it?!
GNOME 3 is not shipped in Ubuntu 11.04; the user needs to explicitly
install a PPA to use GNOME 3. Eg. unless you actually manually ran:
sudo add-apt-repository ppa:gnome3-team/gnome3
sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
...then you are /very/ unlikely to be running GNOME 3 accidentally!
Liam Proven
It doesn't and you didn't get GNOME 3. You got GNOME 2.
Unity requires 3D compositing. They are working on a separate 2D
version but it's not ready yet.
The way it works is meant to be this:
- if you have hardware 3D, you get Unity;
- if you don't, you get GNOME 2.
--
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Paul Sladen
> - if you have hardware 3D, you get Unity;
> - if you don't, you get GNOME 2.
The description of the hardware detection is correct. Additionally,
if anyone wants GNOME2 Panel anyway, then all that is required is to:
1. Enter the Username at the graphical login (aka "GDM")
2. Choose "Ubuntu Classic" from the drop down at the bottom
3. Enter the Password to complete login (with GNOME2 Panel).
> They are working on a separate 2D version but it's not ready yet.
^^^^
There is no such thing as "they" and "us" in Ubuntu; only *we*.
*We* are all equally welcome to install Unity-2D!:
sudo apt-get install unity-2d
(It should have feature parity---and if it doesn't that's a bug, which
can be filed at http://launchpad.net/unity-2d/+filebug )
-Paul
Samuel Thurston
> On Sat, 16 Apr 2011, Samuel Thurston wrote:
>> On Sat, Apr 16, 2011 at 3:06 PM, chris <che...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> The problem is when you make "big shifts" on this kind of
>> timetable, without having prepped the work in the background.
>
> Where Ubuntu has been successful is interative development. The Unity
> design is an interation of the design shipped in UNR/Ubuntu 10.10;
> what is unusual in this case is that the *implemenation* has been
> written from-scratch, twice. There are now three Unity codebases:
>
> 1. Unity Clutter/Mutter (aka Ubuntu Netbook ... <= Ubuntu 10.10)
> 2. Unity Compiz (aka Unity 3D ... >= Ubuntu 11.04
> 3. Unity Qt (aka Unity 2D ... >= Ubuntu 11.04)
>
> Of the three codebases, two have been written from-scratch over the
> last release cycle. So whilst the the Unity interface *design* is
> continuing to evolve the code implementations have not had that same
> benefit this time around.
>
> Software crashing is an implementation issue, rather than a design
> issue. The work being done by Ayatana is continuing to evolve on an
> interative basis; and for the next release cycle the Unity 2D/3D
> codebases will also be iterations of what has gone before.
I think my concern is that in my understanding Unity has never been a
"stable" package. This seems like a reasonable precursor to making it
the centerpiece of the UI. I am not quite following the point you're
making about the split code base, but it almost seems insane to me,
like for this release they decided to build a scratch reimplementation
of something that wasn't really finished in the first place?
>
>> When i heard the reasons fedora was dumping unity,
>
> I am not aware of Fedora having planned to ship Unity by default. Do
> you have links/URLs to give better context?
>
It was months ago I remember hearing that this was a thing, and I
cannot find any references to it any more, so it is entirely possible
that I imagined it, or that it was such a premature discussion that it
never materialized beyond an obscure blog post or two.
Liam Proven
> On Sun, 17 Apr 2011, Liam Proven wrote:
>> - if you have hardware 3D, you get Unity;
>> - if you don't, you get GNOME 2.
>
> The description of the hardware detection is correct. Additionally,
> if anyone wants GNOME2 Panel anyway, then all that is required is to:
>
> 1. Enter the Username at the graphical login (aka "GDM")
> 2. Choose "Ubuntu Classic" from the drop down at the bottom
> 3. Enter the Password to complete login (with GNOME2 Panel).
>
>> They are working on a separate 2D version but it's not ready yet.
> ^^^^
> There is no such thing as "they" and "us" in Ubuntu; only *we*.
Sadly, that may be the theory, but it's not the practice. I've made
feature suggestions, written "paper cuts," filed multiple bug reports
against the problems on my 2 Linux-capable IBM Thinkpads since Ubuntu
6.10. Nothing has ever been fixed or acted upon; I've had to find my
own fixes, which I've documented, written up on
http://liam-on-linux.livejournal.com/ and posted links to in
Launchpad, in the Ubuntu fora and mailing lists.
> *We* are all equally welcome to install Unity-2D!:
>
> sudo apt-get install unity-2d
I'm on 10.10. Not an option there, is it?
I'm only running the beta in a VM, where the UNAD works OK thanks to
some VirtualBox tweaks that I've also posted links to on here. I've
also been haunting the mailing lists since Warty came out and posting
help when I can, and I've published a number of articles about Ubuntu,
of which the latest was this:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/06/21/reg_linux_guide_1/
I have tried to contribute - feature suggestions, bug reports, ideas
and proposals. All have met with silence.
Ubuntu, and indeed, FOSS in general, is not a democracy, as our SABDFL
reminds us. It's a meritocracy - unless you're paying. Mark is, and
I'm very grateful for it, but even so, it ain't no democracy.
> (It should have feature parity---and if it doesn't that's a bug, which
> can be filed at http://launchpad.net/unity-2d/+filebug )
I will be trying 11.04 on my Thinkpad X31 on release, but since
netbook Unity *completely* broke that machine in 10.10 and the netbook
remix launcher only sort-of worked with some significant issues in
10.04, I really doubt that it is going to be a happy bunny with 11.04.
It will probably be fine on my desktop, but I tend to leave it a month
or two before upgrades on my main work machine. I only went to 10.10
in March.
Mind you, saying that, this install is getting a bit ropy and flakey
now. It started off as 9.10 and has been repeatedly upgraded since.
I'm very happy for all those people for whom upgrades are
trouble-free, but I add lots of stuff, remove things that I don't like
or don't use (e.g. Empathy, Evolution) and have loads of extra repos
and things. This causes Ubuntu to rot fairly badly inside about 4
releases, I find.
--
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Email: lpr...@cix.co.uk • GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lpr...@gmail.com
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--
David Gerard
> Mind you, saying that, this install is getting a bit ropy and flakey
> now. It started off as 9.10 and has been repeatedly upgraded since.
> I'm very happy for all those people for whom upgrades are
> trouble-free, but I add lots of stuff, remove things that I don't like
> or don't use (e.g. Empathy, Evolution) and have loads of extra repos
> and things. This causes Ubuntu to rot fairly badly inside about 4
> releases, I find.
You last four? I can't think of any installs of mine that I put
through more than two. These days I reinstall fresh.
The chained upgrades trick works in Debian because they work quite
hard to keep it working. It just doesn't work reliably in Ubuntu, in
my experience (running every version since 5.04).
- d.
Liam Proven
> On 17 April 2011 19:48, Liam Proven <lpr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Mind you, saying that, this install is getting a bit ropy and flakey
>> now. It started off as 9.10 and has been repeatedly upgraded since.
>> I'm very happy for all those people for whom upgrades are
>> trouble-free, but I add lots of stuff, remove things that I don't like
>> or don't use (e.g. Empathy, Evolution) and have loads of extra repos
>> and things. This causes Ubuntu to rot fairly badly inside about 4
>> releases, I find.
>
> You last four? I can't think of any installs of mine that I put
> through more than two. These days I reinstall fresh.
:¬) They don't /all/ last so long. As a wild generalisation, 1 is
usually fine, 2 has niggles, 3 throws errors, 4 breaks it. My last
upgrade, from 10.04 to 10.10, fell over badly on Mozplugger (an
inoffensive little browser plugin) and warned me the upgrade failed,
the system was in an unstable state and might not be usable.
And I'd carefully gone through and removed my direct installs of
Thunderbird and Seamonkey and so on, too. I did have to do some
serious furtling around with /usr/lib/firefox*/plugins,
mozilla*/plugins, xulrunner*/plugins and seamonkey/plugins in Lucid,
mind you, now I come to think of it. That probably did it.
But it booted up OK. I removed Mozplugger, did a 'dpkg --reconfigure
-a' and 'apt-get install -f' and a few things like that, and in the
end, it lived and it's been OK.
Next one will kill it, though, I reckon. I mean, it is going to be a biggie.
But it's time to nuke from orbit and start over, anyway. WINE should
survive; once I reload VirtualBox and a few other things, it should be
OK.
> The chained upgrades trick works in Debian because they work quite
> hard to keep it working. It just doesn't work reliably in Ubuntu, in
> my experience (running every version since 5.04).
Sadly, I am not yet Man Enough for Debian.
I tried putting 5 on the older Thinkpad (no Ethernet, wireless LAN or
Bluetooth). It was mostly OK, but when I tried to upgrade to sid, it
exploded messily.
I have Crunchbang on it now. 9.04 is Ubuntu-based and works, with a
small amount of tweaking. But 10 is Debian 6. In the new Debian, all
the proprietary drivers are gone, so my Ethernet card doesn't work,
nor my wifi card, nor my USB wifi dongle, nor my spare Ethernet card.
So even if I install it, I won't have any Internet access at all, so I
won't be able to install any new drivers. I've not even tried 'cos I
don't know where to begin finding the missing stuff.
--
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Email: lpr...@cix.co.uk • GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lpr...@gmail.com
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 • Cell: +44 7939-087884 • Fax: + 44 870-9151419
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--
David Gerard
> Sadly, I am not yet Man Enough for Debian.
Debian's not that scary and stuff does actually work ;-) I use distros
and DEs because I *could* build an operating system from toothpicks,
string and a copy of gcc. But I don't want to have to. Ubuntu has
filled the gap spectacularly for many years
> I have Crunchbang on it now. 9.04 is Ubuntu-based and works, with a
> small amount of tweaking. But 10 is Debian 6. In the new Debian, all
> the proprietary drivers are gone, so my Ethernet card doesn't work,
> nor my wifi card, nor my USB wifi dongle, nor my spare Ethernet card.
> So even if I install it, I won't have any Internet access at all, so I
> won't be able to install any new drivers. I've not even tried 'cos I
> don't know where to begin finding the missing stuff.
If this netbook didn't use proprietary wifi, I'd have Debian unstable
on it already.
- d.
NoOp
> On Sat, 16 Apr 2011, Fred A. Miller wrote:
>> I've stayed away from 11.4 till now. I d'led the 64-bit image, burned a
>> disk, and booted it. I had understood that Unity was default. Why did
>> 11.4 come up in Gnome 3? Do I have to install 11.4 to test it?!
>
> GNOME 3 is not shipped in Ubuntu 11.04; the user needs to explicitly
> install a PPA to use GNOME 3. Eg. unless you actually manually ran:
>
> sudo add-apt-repository ppa:gnome3-team/gnome3
> sudo apt-get update
> sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
>
> ...then you are /very/ unlikely to be running GNOME 3 accidentally!
When you post such commands I think it's always a good idea to also post
a link to the PPA:
https://launchpad.net/~gnome3-team/+archive/gnome3
<quote>
GNOME3
“GNOME3 Team” team
GNOME3
PPA description
This package contains packages from GNOME3 and their dependencies so
they can be used in Ubuntu 11.04 (Natty). This PPA is EXPERIMENTAL and
MAY BREAK YOUR SYSTEM. There is no downgrade process.
</quote>
The 'experimental' et al is standard for just about any PPA (*Personal
Package Archive*). The most relevant part in that quote is:
*There is no downgrade process*. So before using any of those commands,
read, and reread, the last sentence from the PPA description. Then
proceed at your own risk.
Cybe R. Wizard
Paul Sladen <ubu...@paul.sladen.org> wrote:
> There is no such thing as "they" and "us" in Ubuntu; only *we*.
'Someone' has been drinking the Kool-Aid.
Cybe R. Wizard
--
Registered GNU/Linux user # 126326
Registered Ubuntu User # 2136
Fred A. Miller
[snip]
I appologize.....I said "3" but it isn't....current Gnome. I can't find any > option for > a Unity startup....no options at all. The image is the 64-bit iso from the > Ubuntu site. The > file name is: ubuntu-11.04-beta2-desktop-amd64.isoIt doesn't and you didn't get GNOME 3. You got GNOME 2. Unity requires 3D compositing. They are working on a separate 2D version but it's not ready yet. The way it works is meant to be this: - if you have hardware 3D, you get Unity; - if you don't, you get GNOME 2.
Fred
-- "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars." - Unknown
Paul Sladen
> On Sun, 17 Apr 2011 15:50:04 +0100 (BST)
> Paul Sladen <ubu...@paul.sladen.org> wrote:
> > There is no such thing as "they" and "us" in Ubuntu; only *we*.
> 'Someone' has been drinking the Kool-Aid.
Could you outline why you believe the above not to the be the case?
I'd love to try and get it fixed if there's something specific.
-Paul
Cybe R. Wizard
Paul Sladen <ubu...@paul.sladen.org> wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Apr 2011, Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
> > On Sun, 17 Apr 2011 15:50:04 +0100 (BST)
> > Paul Sladen <ubu...@paul.sladen.org> wrote:
> > > There is no such thing as "they" and "us" in Ubuntu; only *we*.
> > 'Someone' has been drinking the Kool-Aid.
>
> Could you outline why you believe the above not to the be the case?
>
> I'd love to try and get it fixed if there's something specific.
>
> -Paul
>
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-codeofconduct/+bug/689893
Cybe R. Wizard
--
Registered GNU/Linux user # 126326
Registered Ubuntu User # 2136
--
NoOp
> On 04/16/2011 08:38 PM, Paul Sladen wrote:
>> GNOME 3 is not shipped in Ubuntu 11.04; the user needs to explicitly
>> install a PPA to use GNOME 3. Eg. unless you actually manually ran:
>>
>> sudo add-apt-repository ppa:gnome3-team/gnome3
>> sudo apt-get update
>> sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
>>
>> ...then you are /very/ unlikely to be running GNOME 3 accidentally!
> ...
> When you post such commands I think it's always a good idea to also post
> a link to the PPA:
>
> https://launchpad.net/~gnome3-team/+archive/gnome3
> <quote>
> GNOME3
>
> GNOME3
>
> PPA description
>
> This package contains packages from GNOME3 and their dependencies so
> they can be used in Ubuntu 11.04 (Natty). This PPA is EXPERIMENTAL and
> MAY BREAK YOUR SYSTEM. There is no downgrade process.
> </quote>
>
> The 'experimental' et al is standard for just about any PPA (*Personal
> Package Archive*). The most relevant part in that quote is:
> *There is no downgrade process*. So before using any of those commands,
> read, and reread, the last sentence from the PPA description. Then
> proceed at your own risk.
Sorry, forgot to add:
<http://askubuntu.com/questions/22946/how-do-i-install-the-latest-version-of-gnome-3>
<quote>
Using GNOME3 on 11.04 will upgrade major parts of the desktop
infrastructure, if you are not familiar with how to do package
management then we recommend you try this on a virtualized installation
or a non-production system, reverting back to vanilla 11.04 is not trivial.
</quote>
Michael Haney
> On 04/17/2011 07:27 AM, Liam Proven wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> I appologize.....I said "3" but it isn't....current Gnome. I can't find any
>> option for
>> a Unity startup....no options at all. The image is the 64-bit iso from the
>> Ubuntu site. The
>> file name is: ubuntu-11.04-beta2-desktop-amd64.iso
>
> It doesn't and you didn't get GNOME 3. You got GNOME 2.
>
> Unity requires 3D compositing. They are working on a separate 2D
> version but it's not ready yet.
>
> The way it works is meant to be this:
>
> - if you have hardware 3D, you get Unity;
> - if you don't, you get GNOME 2.
>
> No, I don't think that's correct. The disk doesn't have the new nVidia
> drivers so you can't get Unity.
>
Ubuntu can install updates from the repos during installation. When
it does hardware detection during the install process why couldn't it
install the driver then and there during the main installation
process? So when you get to the desktop, you've got Unity if you have
3D hardware, or Gnome 2 if you don't.
--
Michael "TheZorch" Haney
"The greatest tragedy in mankind's entire history may be the hijacking
of morality by religion." ~ Arthur C. Clarke
"The suppression of uncomfortable ideas may be common in religion and
politics, but it is not the path to knowledge, and there is no place
for it in the endeavor of science. " ~ Carl Sagan
Visit My Site: http://sites.google.com/site/thezorch/home-1
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Free Your PC from the Bondage of Windows http://www.ubuntu.com
Fred A. Miller
On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 10:04 AM, Fred A. Miller <fmi...@lightlink.com> wrote:> On 04/17/2011 07:27 AM, Liam Proven wrote: > > [snip] > > I appologize.....I said "3" but it isn't....current Gnome. I can't find any>> option for >> a Unity startup....no options at all. The image is the 64-bit iso from the >> Ubuntu site. The >> file name is: ubuntu-11.04-beta2-desktop-amd64.iso> > It doesn't and you didn't get GNOME 3. You got GNOME 2. > > Unity requires 3D compositing. They are working on a separate 2D > version but it's not ready yet. > > The way it works is meant to be this: > > - if you have hardware 3D, you get Unity; > - if you don't, you get GNOME 2. > > No, I don't think that's correct. The disk doesn't have the new nVidia > drivers so you can't get Unity. >Ubuntu can install updates from the repos during installation. When it does hardware detection during the install process why couldn't it install the driver then and there during the main installation process? So when you get to the desktop, you've got Unity if you have 3D hardware, or Gnome 2 if you don't.
The driver should be on the CD and it isn't.
Fred
Liam Proven
> On 04/17/2011 07:27 AM, Liam Proven wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> I appologize.....I said "3" but it isn't....current Gnome. I can't find any
>> option for
>> a Unity startup....no options at all. The image is the 64-bit iso from the
>> Ubuntu site. The
>> file name is: ubuntu-11.04-beta2-desktop-amd64.iso
>
> It doesn't and you didn't get GNOME 3. You got GNOME 2.
>
> Unity requires 3D compositing. They are working on a separate 2D
> version but it's not ready yet.
>
> The way it works is meant to be this:
>
> - if you have hardware 3D, you get Unity;
> - if you don't, you get GNOME 2.
>
> No, I don't think that's correct. The disk doesn't have the new nVidia
> drivers so you can't get Unity.
Um. Firstly, I'm fairly sure that it is right, and others have already agreed.
Secondly, well, there are a number of errors in this sentence: "The
disk doesn't have the new nVidia drivers so you can't get Unity."
Firstly, Unity is not directly anything to do with nVidia or its
drivers. It works on anything with hardware-accelerated compositing,
AIUI: ATI, capable Intel chipsets, whatever.
Secondly, the CD does indeed have nVidia drivers - the basic, 2D "nv"
driver and I would expect the newer, partly-accelerated FOSS "nouveau"
driver. What it doesn't have is the proprietary binary drivers from
nVidia Corporation, no, but not all h/w specs will need those to get
enough 3D working for Unity, and some people prefer to go without them
and run all-Free s/w, anway.
Thirdly, you /can/ install the binary drivers off the Internet while
booted to a live CD, if you're careful. I've done it. What you need to
do is be careful *not* to restart the computer, but merely quit &
reload X.org at the critical point. It works.
Liam Proven
> On Mon, 18 Apr 2011, Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
>> On Sun, 17 Apr 2011 15:50:04 +0100 (BST)
>> Paul Sladen <ubu...@paul.sladen.org> wrote:
>> > There is no such thing as "they" and "us" in Ubuntu; only *we*.
>> 'Someone' has been drinking the Kool-Aid.
>
> Could you outline why you believe the above not to the be the case?
>
> I'd love to try and get it fixed if there's something specific.
I'm intrigued that you specifically responded to Cybes and not to my reply. :¬)
--
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Email: lpr...@cix.co.uk • GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lpr...@gmail.com
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--
Fred A. Miller
The way it works is meant to be this: > > - if you have hardware 3D, you get Unity; > - if you don't, you get GNOME 2. > > No, I don't think that's correct. The disk doesn't have the new nVidia > drivers so you can't get Unity.Um. Firstly, I'm fairly sure that it is right, and others have already agreed.
on over a dozen boxen now, ALL with nVidia chipsets and the same results have
been noted, it's fair to say that the nVidia driver ISN'T in the ISO.
[snip]
My point was, and I guess I should have made it clear, is that newbies won't be amused
by not having 3D and Unity when bootup has finished.....booting the CD that is when one
has a nVidia video card. I believe Basil was one of the first to note this problem.
Samuel Thurston
> My point was, and I guess I should have made it clear, is that newbies won't
> be amused
> by not having 3D and Unity when bootup has finished.....booting the CD that
> is when one
> has a nVidia video card. I believe Basil was one of the first to note this
> problem.
>
> Fred
More important than the users' level of amusement, is that the
live-image is supposed to be representative of the installed system.
I think I've already made clear my thoughts on the deceptive nature of
the community's recent efforts and I'll leave my statement at that.
Fred A. Miller
On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 8:26 PM, Fred A. Miller <fmi...@lightlink.com> wrote:> My point was, and I guess I should have made it clear, is that newbies won't > be amused > by not having 3D and Unity when bootup has finished.....booting the CD that > is when one > has a nVidia video card. I believe Basil was one of the first to note this > problem. > > FredMore important than the users' level of amusement, is that the live-image is supposed to be representative of the installed system. I think I've already made clear my thoughts on the deceptive nature of the community's recent efforts and I'll leave my statement at that.
show stoppers. The public has the final word and although it may take awhile,
their evaluation will be "final."