New domain for Ubunchu?

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Anton Ekblad

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Feb 25, 2015, 2:20:19 PM2/25/15
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Since ubunchu.net is long dead and gone, should we look into getting a new domain, to make it easier for people to find things? All the old chapters are still available on http://divajutta.com/doctormo/ubunchu/, but that's not really a SEO-friendly location. Furthermore, the website is updated even more sporadically than we release translations (still no ch8), so I'm not sure if Martin is still tracking the translations or not?

I've been looking at acquiring ubunchu.moe for the purpose; the .moe TLD seems quite appropriate for our use case, it's not very expensive, and I could either point it at the old site (if Martin wants to keep hosting it; although a domain redirect is pretty bad for SEO) or host a new one - I'm currently paying for at least 100 times more bandwidth than I'm using on my VPS, might as well put it to good use. But since this is a group effort, I figure I should ask other interested parties what they think.

So... Any thoughts?

/Anton

Blek

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Mar 5, 2015, 6:40:16 AM3/5/15
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Ok, since Martin's reply is nowhere to see during the last 7 days, why
not just reupload all stuffs somewhere and put that new .moe on that
somewhere new place?
We have tons of free hosting service these days. :)

pd12

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Mar 6, 2015, 7:10:56 AM3/6/15
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Sounds like a good idea if Martin isn't going to continue to update stuff. Bonus if you've got a VPS already.
Has anyone contacted him personally/directly through his email?



On Thursday, 5 March 2015 22:40:16 UTC+11, blek wrote:

Blue Dragon

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May 8, 2015, 4:45:59 AM5/8/15
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Is there any update on the new website?

pd12

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May 10, 2015, 3:23:29 AM5/10/15
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I just sent an email to Martin, I realised I never sent him an email directly.

I gave him another 2 weeks to respond, otherwise I think we can go ahead with our plans to host an independent/standalone website.

.

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Jul 31, 2015, 6:27:31 AM7/31/15
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I hope that people who still read this mailing list have all of the files from pigux.com and the other languages' domains because divajutta.com links to files on hosts that no longer exist.  Some but not all of the missing English files can be downloaded from his and C-quel's deviantArt pages or by pasting the dead links into Archive.org's Wayback Machine.

.

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Jul 31, 2015, 6:27:31 AM7/31/15
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Learn from the project's experiences with different hosting providers and who controls them.  Find a balance between stability, domain longevity, contributor access, contributor socialization, and audience interaction.

Seotch is the only contributor who has access to his original Japanese release site.  His blog says chapter 09 will be "Coming Soon," but his last blog post was in 2011 for chapter 08, so assume you won't see new content from him.  That means the project needs an archive website -- some central place that will be online for a very long time where all of the files from all of the contributors will be accessible by anyone who wants to find them and help the project to continue further.

Seotch uses wordpress.com which is fantastic for announcements, interacting with the audience, stability, longevity (their .com is immensely popular and shows no signs of shutting down), and has options to let multiple editors manage the blog so that the site would not stagnate or expire if one person disappears.  However, it does not provide good tools for project contributors to organize.  Such disadvantages are taken care of by the Google Group and Google Docs.
https://seotch.wordpress.com/ubunchu/

Some other contributors have personal blogs or deviantArt pages, but the project should have a place of its own.

I suggest NOT using your own domain or your own VPS for the same reasons as above: they depend on a single user, and the project needs an archive that can confidently be administrated for a very long time.

Ubunchu! is an art-community and software-community-based project, so I suggest following where those similar types of projects are hosted so this project can entice interest and contributions.  DeviantArt, Tumblr, Wordpress.com, and Blogger.com can have group-managed sites, have large and thriving communities, and are not in danger of losing their domain or hosting service.  DeviantArt and Tumblr, in particular, are geared toward graphic artists, and many professional artists reside there.  Many artists who make wallpapers, icons, desktop themes, and other customized configurations FOR the Ubuntu OS and Linux in general spend lots of time on dA and Tumblr.  I suggest investigating each to learn about their group-administration tools, bandwidth and space limitations, file type limitations, and any potential monetary costs.  (I think both are completely free.)

If you only want a place to confidently archive the files, I suggest making a group-accessible Google Drive or investigating storing the files on archive.org and giving access to all trusted contributors so they can give access to other contributors as the project evolves and if anyone disappears.

E-mail lists like this Google Group use archaic methods of communication and are not as facilitative of organic social proliferation.  Mailing lists have evolved into forums and social networks.  All are decent methods for contributors to collaborate and answer questions from the audience, but mailing lists do not offer a common central place to store and publicize all project files (releases and drafts) like a forum, blog, or social network could.  Although, Google makes due for text-only translation collaborators by providing Google Docs.

If you choose to host on your own, I suggest installing Wordpress or MediaWiki or DokuWiki or some other proven CMS as your front page for announcements and file storage and management, a text-collaboration tool such as Etherpad, and possibly a forum such as PunBB, FluxBB or Simple Machines for project and audience discussion.  Enable automatic updates to avoid SQL injections, avoid PHP bugs, and pull new definitions for plugins to detect spam comments.  Think hard about whether to require visitors to register an account to leave a blog comment or edit the wiki or to open those features to anonymous visitors.  Keep in mind that the currently low activity and small population base of the project means that the site will go unmonitored for long periods of time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_content_management_systems



On Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 2:20:19 PM UTC-5, Anton Ekblad wrote:

pd12

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Jul 31, 2015, 9:48:22 AM7/31/15
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Sorry guys, forgot to post it here, we have Martin's go-ahead.

On Sun, 2015-05-10 at 00:21 -0700, pd12 wrote:
>
> Hi Martin,
>
> We were just wondering if you were looking to continue updating your
> website and we can redirect a friendlier URL to your website, or if we
> should make a new website?
>
> We'll probably go ahead with plans to make an independent/stand alone
> website if we don't hear back from you in the next two weeks. Feel
> free to reply in the Ubunchu Google group!
>
> Thanks,
> Vince

Martin's response: "Please go ahead."


Wordpress.com is nice, but note it'll have ads on individual posts.

So who will set up the website and who will scrape all the translations of chapters that have been done to put into the new website? (Perhaps also share the folder on Google Drive or Dropbox or something)

Yuen Hoe Lim

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Jul 31, 2015, 11:19:56 AM7/31/15
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Hi all,

Just an extra note: there are actually raws available up til chapter 11 (http://www.aerialline.com/comics/ubunchu) so ideally we should look to set ourselves up to go back to work on translating and releasing and not just on archiving, though we should definitely make sure we archive well as well moving forward.

In either case, getting a new site up is definitely the first step.

I'm good with wordpress.com, though as pd12 pointed out there are limitations. I don't think it's an overly bad idea though to host it on one of our vps's. We could still set up a wordpress site (minus ads and limitations), and we could archive both the site and the contents somewhere neutral like google drive, so that on the off chance the owner of the vps disappears, the rest of us can simply take out the archives and rehost the site elsewhere.

I don't really know re:the files hosted on the now broken pigux.com, but in the worst case we could look to recreate them as part of a fresh new effort. We need to get the site up first, then we can look to rallying such efforts and get this group online again.

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Yuen Hoe Lim

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Aug 5, 2015, 1:13:47 PM8/5/15
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Hi all,

Since no further opinion is forthcoming, shall we just default to Wordpress.com then? If there are no objections I'll try and find time to make us an account and draft out a simple site, after which we can see how much content from the old site can still be salvaged.

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Anton Ekblad

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Aug 5, 2015, 2:29:09 PM8/5/15
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I'm not overly fond of the idea of using an ad-supported service - is that even compatible with the NC license? (This is why I hate NC, the definition of "commercial use" is vague enough that the license is all but useless.)

I'm still up for hosting the thing since I have more space and bandwidth than I know what to do with, but if we do that we should have some sort of contingency plan for the unlikely event that I'd get hit by a bus. Maybe mirroring archives and sources on GitHub?

Another ad-free option would be to use GitHub pages for the entire thing. We'd lose the WordPress interface (and associated security problems, so I'm not sure I'd be too sad about that), but we'd get redundancy and a more FOSSy workflow and way of managing things for free.

/A

Martin Owens

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Aug 5, 2015, 3:39:48 PM8/5/15
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Github's free service can only be used for CC-BY and CC-BY-SA. NC isn't
allowed there unless you buy a subscription with them. :-/

I agree with your assessment of NC, it's a rotten pain in the arse.

Martin,
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Vince C

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Aug 5, 2015, 9:51:57 PM8/5/15
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Can you provide a source for this Martin?
I think you can choose "no license" (i.e. all rights retained) for the public Git repo itself (though other users will be able to view and fork) and post on your wiki/page, as well as the cover pages of the images, the CC-BY-NC license (or whatever it was).

Can we get someone to volunteer themselves for getting all the previous translated releases and tar/zipping them together?



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Blek

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Sep 6, 2015, 1:55:06 PM9/6/15
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Okay, no one replied with a solution.

Let me host them at linux.or.id
I got 1 gigs spare space for ubunchu there, and I can assure you, this
site will last long.

Dump me those ready-to-upload-html-and-zip tarball.
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Blek

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Sep 6, 2015, 2:09:27 PM9/6/15
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On Mon, Sep 7, 2015 at 1:55 AM, Blek <black...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Okay, no one replied with a solution.
>
> Let me host them at linux.or.id
> I got 1 gigs spare space for ubunchu there, and I can assure you, this
> site will last long.
>
> Dump me those ready-to-upload-html-and-zip tarball.
>

Oh, I forgot to mention that linux.or.id give no s*** about NC or
whatever the licence is.
I've hosts Indonesian version of Ubunchu for years under
ubunchu.linux.or.id and we can put everything under that subdomain. ;)

Blek

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Sep 6, 2015, 2:13:52 PM9/6/15
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On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 11:19 PM, Yuen Hoe Lim <yuen...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Just an extra note: there are actually raws available up til chapter 11
> (http://www.aerialline.com/comics/ubunchu) so ideally we should look to set
> ourselves up to go back to work on translating and releasing and not just on
> archiving,

I second this.

Who can read those kanji, kana, hira? Anyone?
Or do something so that every words on that images can be heard using
ears. In another word, turn them into sounds. I understand Japanese,
but heck, I can't read even a single word.

Blek

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Sep 6, 2015, 2:32:52 PM9/6/15
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On Mon, Sep 7, 2015 at 2:18 AM, Alexander Mlinzk
<alexand...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sunday Sep 6, 2015 20:13:52 UTC+2 blek wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 11:19 PM, Yuen Hoe Lim <yuen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > Just an extra note: there are actually raws available up til chapter 11
>> > (http://www.aeriallineAm.com/comics/ubunchu) so ideally we should look
>> > to set
>> > ourselves up to go back to work on translating and releasing and not
>> > just on
>> > archiving,
>>
>> I second this.
>>
>> Who can read those kanji, kana, hira? Anyone?
>> Or do something so that every words on that images can be heard using
>> ears. In another word, turn them into sounds. I understand Japanese,
>> but heck, I can't read even a single word.
>
>
> Well I can read Hiragana and Katakana in the future. Kanji on the other hand
> is a big problem


ALL HAIL THIS MAN! ALL HAIL!

Martin Owens

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Sep 6, 2015, 4:19:29 PM9/6/15
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On Mon, 2015-09-07 at 02:09 +0800, Blek wrote:
> I forgot to mention that linux.or.id give no s*** about NC or
> whatever the licence is.

Be careful; NC is tricky. That's all I say :-)

https://code.launchpad.net/~doctormo/+junk/ubunchu-website

Always with the git ;-) one day launchpad will support git.

Does everyone have the sources for each chapter?

Martin,
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Anton Ekblad

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Sep 6, 2015, 4:39:05 PM9/6/15
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I think we've had quite a lot of proposed solutions, but the sticking point so far seems to be whether someone should stick it on their VPS or if we should find a more distributed solution.

Moofang's suggestion still seems like the best one to me though: keep sources and whatnot in some place where everyone can access them to reduce the "bus factor", and host the site itself on someone's VPS. Since nobody raised any objections, I went ahead and acquired ubunchu.moe; I'll point it to wherever we end up hosting the site. I'd prefer to have it on a properly configured VPS over Wordpress, a subdirectory on some other domain or something similar though, because redirect URLs just look bad.

Is that possible on linux.or.id? I still have tons of space and bandwidth left on my VPS, but I certainly wouldn't mind if someone else is very keen on hosting it.

/Anton
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Blek

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Sep 6, 2015, 7:58:46 PM9/6/15
to Anton Ekblad, Ubunchu!
On Mon, Sep 7, 2015 at 4:39 AM, Anton Ekblad <an...@ekblad.cc> wrote:
> I think we've had quite a lot of proposed solutions, but the sticking point
> so far seems to be whether someone should stick it on their VPS or if we
> should find a more distributed solution.
>
> Moofang's suggestion still seems like the best one to me though: keep
> sources and whatnot in some place where everyone can access them to reduce
> the "bus factor", and host the site itself on someone's VPS. Since nobody
> raised any objections, I went ahead and acquired ubunchu.moe; I'll point it
> to wherever we end up hosting the site. I'd prefer to have it on a properly
> configured VPS over Wordpress, a subdirectory on some other domain or
> something similar though, because redirect URLs just look bad.
>
> Is that possible on linux.or.id? I still have tons of space and bandwidth
> left on my VPS, but I certainly wouldn't mind if someone else is very keen
> on hosting it.
>
> /Anton
>

Hosting another domain is not possible on Linux.or.id
But what about something like this? Upload them to your VPS, set up
wordpress or anything that good for SEO that you can think of. I'll
give you an ftp account under ubunchu.linux.or.id/internation, then
you can set your VPS to automatically upload any *.zip, *.tar or *.pdf
releases, so we will always have those crucial files back-upped. :D

Blek

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Sep 6, 2015, 7:59:41 PM9/6/15
to Anton Ekblad, Ubunchu!
On Mon, Sep 7, 2015 at 7:58 AM, Blek <black...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hosting another domain is not possible on Linux.or.id
> But what about something like this? Upload them to your VPS, set up
> wordpress or anything that good for SEO that you can think of. I'll
> give you an ftp account under ubunchu.linux.or.id/internation, then
> you can set your VPS to automatically upload any *.zip, *.tar or *.pdf
> releases, so we will always have those crucial files back-upped. :D

*id/international

Blek

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Sep 6, 2015, 8:02:55 PM9/6/15
to Alexander Mlinzk, Ubunchu!, Anton Ekblad, petric...@gmail.com
On Mon, Sep 7, 2015 at 3:21 AM, Alexander Mlinzk
<alexand...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sunday Sep 6, 2015 20:32:52 UTC+2 blek wrote:
>>
>>
>> ALL HAIL THIS MAN! ALL HAIL!
>
>
> As I said. I can't read kanji which makes me pretty useless because it is
> used a lot in daily Japanese.

You, sir, has just put me back in a weeping corner. XD

Alexander Mlinzk

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Sep 6, 2015, 9:16:21 PM9/6/15
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Launchpad does support git. It is still in Beta but works pretty good.

http://blog.launchpad.net/general/git-code-hosting-beta

Alexander Mlinzk

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Sep 6, 2015, 9:16:21 PM9/6/15
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On Sunday Sep 6, 2015 20:13:52 UTC+2 blek wrote:
On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 11:19 PM, Yuen Hoe Lim <yuen...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Just an extra note: there are actually raws available up til chapter 11
> (http://www.aeriallineAm.com/comics/ubunchu) so ideally we should look to set
> ourselves up to go back to work on translating and releasing and not just on
> archiving,

I second this.

Who can read those kanji, kana, hira? Anyone?
Or do something so that every words on that images can be heard using
ears. In another word, turn them into sounds. I understand Japanese,
but heck, I can't read even a single word.

Alexander Mlinzk

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Sep 6, 2015, 9:16:21 PM9/6/15
to Ubunchu!, alexand...@gmail.com, an...@ekblad.cc, petric...@gmail.com, black...@gmail.com
On Sunday Sep 6, 2015 20:32:52 UTC+2 blek wrote:

ALL HAIL THIS MAN! ALL HAIL!  

Yuen Hoe Lim

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Sep 7, 2015, 1:18:18 AM9/7/15
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Well me and Anton have translated previous chapters from japanese, so I think with our powers combined we should be able to deal with any evil kanji/kana :) Don't think that part is a large problem.

----
Lim Yuen Hoe, Jason (moofang)
http://yuenhoe.com/

MomoCentral | Marketplace of human-verified, interviewed & tested Designers & Developers

Blek

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Sep 15, 2015, 12:37:05 AM9/15/15
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On Mon, Sep 7, 2015 at 1:18 PM, Yuen Hoe Lim <yuen...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Well me and Anton have translated previous chapters from japanese, so I
> think with our powers combined we should be able to deal with any evil
> kanji/kana :) Don't think that part is a large problem.
>

*bump

So? What is our next move?

Vince C

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Sep 15, 2015, 1:45:16 AM9/15/15
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Website:
Anton has acquired ubunchu.moe
Anton has also volunteered a VPS hosting. I also have one but don't have time atm to set up a website, and I'd rather spend time typesetting.
So Anton if you could set up the website and use ubunchu.moe that'd be great.

Sources and binaries:
I think we should put sources and "binaries" (.jpg, .png, .zip) on Git, perhaps hosted by Github or Bitbucket. That way anyone can clone and fork.
I've got all Japanese sources and English binaries (and English source of the chapter I did). I'd need help populating other language binaries and sources.
I can set one up on Github.

Translations:
Anton, Jason, Sy and I can translate. They've been translating for now and I've been QA for translations when I typeset. I can also typeset but don't have time in the foreseeable future.
There's a Google sheet for English translations for the next chapter (10?). I don't have the link right now, can one of the translators post the link and work on the translations so they're good to go for me to typeset?

Thanks,
Vince

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Yuen Hoe Lim

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Sep 15, 2015, 2:38:41 AM9/15/15
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Are we really sure that github doesn't allow NC? I can't seem to find anything on that. I've also found a project that seems to include an NC license: https://github.com/hoxton-one/golden-layout. So unless we really know for sure github is no-go I think we should just go with github for storing all our sources.

I don't know where the spreadsheet links are either :( oughtn't they be together in some folder or something?

----
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Vince C

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Sep 15, 2015, 6:14:56 AM9/15/15
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Git allows any licence you want.
It just doesn't have in-built support for CC-BY (etc.), but you just include the licence file/links in your repo and README and you're good to go.

I made a Github org here: https://github.com/ubunchu-translators
And a repo here: https://github.com/ubunchu-translators/ubunchu

Please request to join the org and get write access by emailing me your username.



Translation:
Can't find the chapter 9 google sheet. Perhaps someone can spreadsheet it?

On my computer I found these 2 files and translation fragments:
We can continue the translation discussion in that thread (and keep this one for the website and Git).


Thanks,
Vince (pd12)




ubunchu09_20150105-222130.txt
UbunchuNumber9_20150107-202851.odt

Anton Ekblad

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Sep 15, 2015, 6:23:06 AM9/15/15
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I've been looking around their terms, and GitHub indeed does not seem to say anything about licenses.

Martin, do you have a reference to where the terms prohibit certain licenses? As far as I can tell, they only seem to differentiate between open/closed repos, not based on licensing of the code contained in the open repos.

/Anton
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Vince C

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Sep 15, 2015, 9:19:38 AM9/15/15
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I think the main thing was Github requiring the repo to be public for unlimited users, but it seems Github has recently changed it's pricing so it's unlimited users across the board, and pricing only changes amount of private repositories (with unlimited public ones).

I hit a slight snag with the Github hosting - I realised every chapter takes on average ~40MB per language with both release and source files (about 10MB and 25MB respectively). With 10 chapters, that's 400MB, and with 2 languages that's 800MB, approaching the 1GB limit per repo given by Github.com
I propose 3 solutions:
1. Have a release-only repo - our main one called "ubunchu" that contains the compressed releases.
    Make a repo for each language containing source files "ubunchu-en", "ubunchu-ja" etc.
2. The above but also stick releases inside source repos like "ubunchu-ja" and "ubunchu-en".
3. Like 2 but without the release-only repo. That is, each language has it's own repo like "ubunchu-ja" and "ubunchu-en" etc. holding both source and release files, and no "ubunchu" repo.

Currently there are about 20 releases (languages + LtR and RtL differences) for ch1, 16 for ch2-3, 10 for ch4, 5 for ch6-8.
That's about 85 releases up to ch8 of what we have. Already, not to mention ch9.
Assuming they're 6MB each, that's 510MB or about half of 1GB capacity.

A language source & release repo like "ubunchu-en" or "ubunchu-ja" will currently have ~40MB*10chapters = 400MB if containing both release and source files.
A source-only repo like "ubunchu-en" or "ubunchu-ja" will currently have ~25MB*10chapters = 250MB.

Right now I'm in favour of solution 1 or 2.


I will be using ISO 639-1 codes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ISO_639-1_codes) for language abbreviations.

Thanks,
Vince



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Vince C

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Sep 15, 2015, 10:32:19 AM9/15/15
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I realise Github might have the 1GB limit for an organisation/user and not just a repo. If that is so, then it seems like solution #1 is the best, otherwise #3 would be best for bandwidth purposes. (#2 has release duplication)

There's also a 1GB/mo bandwidth (at least for Github LFS), so we best use Github as a kind of backup storage facility rather than file server, and host & serve the releases from our VPS where possible.


Regards,
Vince

Alexander Mlinzk

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Sep 15, 2015, 11:18:48 AM9/15/15
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I think using git is a good solution but with the org/user space limit on GitHub we should search for another hoster.
If we are going to use a git repo then use it for every single thing, from sources to release versions. This would be easier for other translators and better to manage.

Anton Ekblad

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Sep 15, 2015, 4:18:40 PM9/15/15
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I think we should use Git for sources only (and perhaps source PSDs as well) - it is exceptionally ill suited for binaries - and just keep the releases on some VPS. They can be regenerated from the sources anyway, so I don't think we gain very much by keeping the releases on GitHub or some other git host.

/Anton

pd12

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Sep 16, 2015, 9:14:44 AM9/16/15
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Dear All,

Here are the alternative Git hosters:

Gitlab: https://about.gitlab.com/gitlab-com/
- 10GB disk space per project
- Unlimited total disk space
- Unlimited private collaborators

Sourceforge: http://sourceforge.net/p/forge/documentation/Disk%20Quotas/
- technically unlimited storage but within "reasonable level"
- I've heard some unsettling things about sourceforge mismanagement of abandoned projects and general anti-FOSS behaviour though

Kiln: http://www.fogcreek.com/kiln/pricing/
- Apparently free edition for 2 users (with write access), can't find the option after signing in though.
- Unlimited disk space
- Able to make repos public: http://help.fogcreek.com/8275/making-code-public

VisualStudio.com: https://www.visualstudio.com/pricing/visual-studio-online-pricing-vs
- Can't find a disk quota/space limit
- Seems like lots of restrictions and ToS crud though
- May best be to avoid risk of M$ douchery


Which one should we go with?

Vince

pd12

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Sep 16, 2015, 9:21:45 AM9/16/15
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Those are all the free ones with space >1GB (Bitbucket has recommended <1GB disk limit and 2GB hard limit).

Found the option in Kiln though it requires a credit card (and only 2 users could ever push to the repo).

Right now I'm leaning towards Gitlab due to its no BS and available info, and with ~85 releases and their source files, that's about 85*40MB = ~3.4GB
So it'd fit the current files we have, plus almost triple the amount of releases we have and their source files. (~240 releases which is like 12 chapters in 20 languages including different RtL/LtR options, or 24 chapters in 10 languages/editions). So it's enough for now and the foreseeable future, and if we exceed 10GB we can open another repo on Gitlab (or review hosting again).

Thanks,
Vince

pd12

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Sep 16, 2015, 9:30:11 AM9/16/15
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Btw Gitlab repo is here, using this for now unless there's a consensus to do otherwise: https://gitlab.com/ubunchu-translators/ubunchu
Group is here: https://gitlab.com/groups/ubunchu-translators

Sysy

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Apr 28, 2017, 9:02:50 AM4/28/17
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https://framacalc.org/opcwkdjpv9 for use to translate during one year it's free to use it .It's one idea to collaborate with benevol translatosr about "ubunchu google group' or other. <=== My english is bad ! I excuse for all.
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