The Way You Look Tonight Chords Elton John

[Sanny Olafeso]

SAMSANDERS, HOST: Everybody. (Singing) Me, me, me...BOB MONDELLO, BYLINE: (Singing) Me, me, me...SANDERS: (Singing) Ma, ma, ma. (Laughter).(SOUNDBITE OF THE BIGTOP ORCHESTRA'S "TEETER BOARD: FOLIES BERGERE (MARCH AND TWO-STEP)")SANDERS: Hey, y'all. It's the NPR POLITICS PODCAST. So here we are coming off a long holiday weekend. I was just on vacation for a week until recently. We need to ease back into things with something a little bit lighter.(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "ALEXANDER HAMILTON")LESLIE ODOM JR: (Singing, as Aaron Burr) How does a bastard, orphan...MONDELLO: Louder. Louder.(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "ALEXANDER HAMILTON")ODOM JR: (Singing, as Aaron Burr) ...Son of a whore...DANIELLE KURTZLEBEN, BYLINE: No.SANDERS: Danielle's going to sing with us.RON ELVING, BYLINE: (Laughter).SANDERS: Anyways, musicals...KURTZLEBEN: (Singing) Dropped in the middle of a forgotten spot (laughter)...SANDERS: You're doing good. You're doing good.KURTZLEBEN: All right. Keep going.ELVING: You almost had it.SANDERS: So we're going to talk today about musicals and politics, which means that we of course have to mention that show - whatever it's called - Harrison.(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "ALEXANDER HAMILTON")LIN-MANUEL MIRANDA: (Singing) Alexander Hamilton.MONDELLO: Oh, "Hamilton," I think.SANDERS: "Hamilton." (Laughter). Anyways, let's say hi. I'm Sam Sanders, campaign reporter.ELVING: I'm Ron Elving, editor correspondent.KURTZLEBEN: I'm Danielle Kurtzleben, digital political reporter.MONDELLO: And I'm Bob Mondello. I'm the movie critic for All Things Considered.SANDERS: And probably the resident expert in this building on musicals.MONDELLO: I am a big fan. I think that everything in the world can be explained through musical comedy.SANDERS: Wow.MONDELLO: And I'm convinced about that. I've done pieces about economics, about the - about all kinds of things. And politics is something that musicals get into a lot more than you'd think.SANDERS: Yes.MONDELLO: And it's kind of exciting to be talking about it with you guys, who actually know something about politics. I talk about this mostly with people who know a lot about musicals.SANDERS: So, Ron, you also like musicals, too, and you've been talking to Bob about this. And the idea for this episode came from you guys, right?ELVING: We had a conversation. We started talking about, not just musicals such as "Evita," but we started talking about the possibility that "Hamilton" would actually have a performance or at least a number or two at the Democratic National Convention this year. And we were also recalling, as I have a tendency to do, at a past convention 20 years ago, the cast of "Rent" was flown in one night...(SOUNDBITE OF 1996 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION)PATRICK ELLIS: The cast of "Rent" has taken their one night off and flown here on their own. They've come from the Great White Way...ELVING: ...And got up on stage and sang "Seasons Of Love" to close that night at the Democratic National...MONDELLO: '92.ELVING: '96.MONDELLO: '96.(SOUNDBITE OF 1996 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION)ELLIS: Their song asks the question, how do you measure the moments of a year, even a political year?MONDELLO: (Laughter).(SOUNDBITE OF 1996 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION)ELLIS: Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome the cast...MONDELLO: You measure it in love.ELVING: Only one way...KURTZLEBEN: You just spoiled it for me.SANDERS: Yeah.ELVING: (Laughter).SANDERS: So that's a pretty political thing right there 'cause that - that musical was all about the AIDS crisis and some other heavy stuff, right?MONDELLO: Right.ELVING: And it was very youth-appealing. It was very strong youth-appealing and clearly the big emphasis of the Clinton reelection campaign that year was to say Bill Clinton is going to build a bridge to the 21st century, and Bob Dole is '96.KURTZLEBEN: Although, that's a pretty uncontroversial song from "Rent."SANDERS: From - yes.KURTZLEBEN: It's about love.SANDERS: Yeah.KURTZLEBEN: (Laughter) It doesn't get any sweeter than that.(SOUNDBITE OF 1996 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION)CAST OF RENT: (Singing) 525,600 minutes.SANDERS: (Singing) Six hundred minutes - anyway, so this campaign cycle, there are reports that Democrats are trying to get the cast of "Hamilton" to perform at their convention, and Hillary Clinton just sent out a big email to fundraise, inviting her supporters to enter to win a chance to see "Hamilton" with her. Has this happened before?MONDELLO: You know, politicians often go to Broadway and get covered when they do. And the president has seen "Hamilton" a couple of times, I think - or the first family has. I don't know that anybody has won a raffle to attend it with a president before. That's probably pretty new - or a presidential candidate. But, yeah, politicians have been going to Broadway for as long as there's been a Broadway.SANDERS: Yeah.MONDELLO: You know - and for a long time, lots of musicals influenced politicians in the way they chose their campaign songs and things like that. I mean, the most famous one really I think is probably that Irving Berlin actually wrote a campaign song for Ike...SANDERS: Really?MONDELLO: ...Into the musical "Call Me Madam."(SOUNDBITE OF IRVING BERLIN SONG, "THEY LIKE IKE")SANDERS: It's catchy.MONDELLO: Oh, give it a moment.SANDERS: (Laughter).(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "THEY LIKE IKE")UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR #1: (As character, singing) I wonder who they'll send to Washington.UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR #2: (As character, singing) They like Ike, and Ike is good on a mic.(LAUGHTER)SANDERS: Songwriting, y'all.(LAUGHTER)MONDELLO: Now, Irving Berlin was pretty famous for writing this kind of thing. And what he did was - immediately thereafter, Ike, well - you know, two years later he ran for president. And Eisenhower used "I Like Ike" as his theme song.SANDERS: Wow.MONDELLO: And it became a thing.(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "I LIKE IKE")UNIDENTIFIED SINGERS: (Singing) Ike for president. Ike for president. You like Ike. I like Ike. Everybody likes Ike. Hang out the banner. Beat the drum. We'll take Ike to Washington.MONDELLO: Jumping.KURTZLEBEN: So...(LAUGHTER)SANDERS: Go ahead.KURTZLEBEN: You have a whole bunch of other political ties into this musical as well I was reading up on. I've never seen "Call Me Madam"...SANDERS: Nor have I.KURTZLEBEN: ...Except for the Ethel Merman clips I was watching before this podcast.MONDELLO: Right.KURTZLEBEN: But, I mean, Irving Berlin also wrote "God Bless America."SANDERS: Wow.KURTZLEBEN: He wrote a World War II musical that Ronald Reagan ended up being in.MONDELLO: Yeah.KURTZLEBEN: But also this story is inspired by - is apparently inspired by a true story, "Call Me Madam" is. And it features...MONDELLO: By - Perle Mesta.KURTZLEBEN: Right, yeah.MONDELLO: Perle Mesta, the hostess with the mostest. Yeah, and she was - she was a socialite who was also a very famous hostess. And she had these huge parties that were used diplomatically and became an ambassador and...KURTZLEBEN: Right. One part of the plot focuses on American foreign aid, which is, you know...(LAUGHTER)SANDERS: OK.KURTZLEBEN: It features the first song - the first musical song I've ever heard that focuses on foreign aid, which is sort of fascinating.SANDERS: First and last, probably.KURTZLEBEN: May - well...MONDELLO: But it wasn't as if - it wasn't as if this hadn't happened before. I mean, you know, Harry Truman got his campaign song, "I'm Just Wild About Harry," from "Shuffle Along."(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "I'M JUST WILD ABOUT HARRY")JUDY GARLAND: (Singing) Yes, I'm just wild about Harry.SANDERS: Oh, I like this one.(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "I'M JUST WILD ABOUT HARRY")GARLAND: (Singing) Harry's wild about me. The heavenly blisses of his kisses.MONDELLO: Now...SANDERS: Ron...MONDELLO: I don't think...SANDERS: ...Is singing along.MONDELLO: I don't think people were actually thinking of Harry Truman when the heavenly blisses of his kisses came along. But the song itself, "I'm Just Wild About Harry," became his theme song and prior to that, Franklin Roosevelt had picked up a song from the movie musical "Chasing Rainbows."SANDERS: Wow.MONDELLO: That one had ended with the song...ELVING: (Singing) Happy days are here...MONDELLO: Yeah. Yeah. See, Ronnie can do it.(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "HAPPY DAYS ARE HERE AGAIN")LEO REISMAN AND HIS ORCHESTRA: (Singing) Happy days are here again...SANDERS: Sing it, Ron.(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "HAPPY DAYS ARE HERE AGAIN")LEO REISMAN AND HIS ORCHESTRA: (Singing) The skies...ELVING: (Singing along) The skies above are clear again.(LAUGHTER)SANDERS: Were you giving us stage hands right there?MONDELLO: I liked...KURTZLEBEN: He was.MONDELLO: ...That.SANDERS: So OK, my question is this. There are all of these examples previously of songs from musicals ending up in campaigns for president. Now it seems like campaigns are picking songs from like Top 40. Like, you think of...MONDELLO: True.SANDERS: ...I think the U2 song "City Of Binding Lights" was big for Obama.KURTZLEBEN: Don't...SANDERS: Bill Clinton liked "Don't Stop..."ELVING: Thinking about tomorrow.SANDERS: "...Thinking About Tomorrow."ELVING: It was a Fleetwood Mac song.SANDERS: What explains that switch?MONDELLO: Well, in the 1930s and '40s and '50s, Broadway was the hit parade, right? I mean, when a show like "Camelot" opened, "Camelot" became the No. 1 bestselling album for 67 weeks in a row.SANDERS: Wow.MONDELLO: And, you know...ELVING: This was the only album on which Richard Burton ever, ever sang.(LAUGHTER)MONDELLO: That's true.SANDERS: A lot of our listeners don't know what "Camelot" is...MONDELLO: Sorry. "Camelot" is the King Arthur legend, and it is basically - in short, there's simply not a more enchanting spot than Camelot. And...ELVING: Here in Camelot. And, you know, I mean, the thing, too, was that it became a political thing because...MONDELLO: Well, because the Kennedys were in "Camelot."ELVING: The Kennedys came to - I don't know who began it, but it just was such a natural fit. It was such a natural metaphor that this idealized notion of power, you know, many, many centuries ago and this legend of perfect harmony, then upset of course by romantic love - that just fit perfectly with the whole Kennedy legend.MONDELLO: Well...ELVING: And when he became president, this was the big musical that had been on Broadway at that time.MONDELLO: Well, it actually opened at about the moment of his election. And so this was a major hit. The Kennedys later said that they played the album at bedtime to put them to sleep and things. And it's a lovely little show.(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "CAMELOT")RICHARD BURTON: (As Arthur) The crown has made it clear. The climate must be perfect all the year.MONDELLO: That's Richard Burton singing.ELVING: That is Richard Burton.MONDELLO: (Laughter).SANDERS: He's got a good voice.ELVING: Well, he had a great voice, maybe not for singing.SANDERS: So why is it weird to hear him singing?ELVING: Because he was not a singer. He was a spoken-word actor, of course, a Shakespearean actor who then became famous as a movie actor who then became famous as Elizabeth Taylor's husband.MONDELLO: Right. Well, and in fairness, the - Lerner and Loewe, who wrote this show, had also written "My Fair Lady," which is famous for...ELVING: I love "My Fair Lady."MONDELLO: Right. And that had Rex Harrison talk-singing everything, so...(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "CAMELOT")BURTON: (As Arthur, singing) Camelot. Camelot.MONDELLO: You know, they had the good sense to have Julie Andrews on hand whenever possible. (Laughter) So there was a good voice in the cast, too.ELVING: So these were the original rap musicals.(LAUGHTER)KURTZLEBEN: Right, of course.SANDERS: Speaking of - so, like, what are the parallels between these shows and the show of the moment, "Hamilton"? "Hamilton" seemed like it's unlike anything else that happened before. And, Danielle, you've seen it, right? Is it different than any other thing that you've seen before?KURTZLEBEN: Yes, and no. I mean, I - they've actually pointed this out on a Pop Culture Happy Hour episode of "Hamilton" - and it's true that "Hamilton" despite all of its being - you know, it's hyped up as this big hip-hop thing. There's still a fair amount of Broadway-ness (ph)...SANDERS: OK.KURTZLEBEN: ...To it. There are big chords, and there are people, you know, standing, hands down, you know, looking up, you know, belting. Like that does happen in "Hamilton." So there's that. I've been thinking a lot about this, and I think that this is a play about the founding fathers that is so relatable when you compare it to today's politics. There is a sex scandal. There are guys trying to take each other down in the press. There's you know, backroom dealings, you know, "The Room Where It Happens."SANDERS: Yeah.KURTZLEBEN: There's the endorsement primary. There's, like, you know, dear Mr. Hamilton, who are you going to be? Who are you promoting? Like, all of this stuff happens in "Hamilton," and it's very easy to watch it and go, oh, this happens now. I get it.SANDERS: Yeah, and they also, it seems like, purposely made the cast very, very, very diverse which kind of speaks to this age of Obama...KURTZLEBEN: Right.SANDERS: ...In a way.ELVING: It certainly does.MONDELLO: If you look back to "1776," I - excuse me - to the musical "1776"...(LAUGHTER)SANDERS: Well, the year, too. I think I see where you're going here. It's probably the same for both.ELVING: This is usually my role, Bob.MONDELLO: (Laughter) I am so old. So if you look back at the musical "1776," which opened - I'm not actually sure when it opened. It was about 1972, I think.ELVING: It was before the centennial - bicentennial.MONDELLO: Right. But when "1776" opened, it was regarded as this kind of thing in a way. Although it wasn't a game-changer in terms of Broadway, it was a different sort of Broadway show that was really about the signing of the Declaration of Independence. So these thing - you know, politics is something that shows up in musicals a lot.ELVING: Well, also we're talking about the degree to which in presidential cycles - and let's set that aside - just the quadrennial presidential cycle. There seems to be one of these is-it-life-imitating-art-or-art-imitating-life things because take, for example, "The Book Of Mormon."(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "HELLO!")ANDREW RANNELLS: (As Elder Price, singing) Hello. My name is Elder Price. And I would like to share with you...ELVING: About five years ago, this was the biggest thing on Broadway, and you couldn't get a ticket to that just like you couldn't get a ticket once to "The Producers" or you couldn't get a ticket now for "Hamilton." And this just was a huge hit on Broadway, and everybody was, like, singing the songs and carrying on about it. And it just happened to be at the time that Mitt Romney became the first Mormon nominated for president by a major American political party.SANDERS: Yeah.(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "HELLO!")ELVING: (As characters, singing) And if you let us in, we'll show you how it can be done.BEN ESTUS: (As Elder Grant) No thanks.RORY O'MALLEY: (As Elder Green) You sure?ESTUS: (As Elder Grant) Oh, well.O'MALLEY: (As Elder Green) That's fine.ESTUS: (As Elder Grant) Good bye.O'MALLEY: (As Elder Green) Have fun in hell.ESTUS: (As Elder Grant) Hey, now.SANDERS: (Laughter) I love this show so much.KURTZLEBEN: Yeah.SANDERS: Oh my God. It's so good.(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "HELLO!")BEN PLATT: (As Elder Cunningham) Hello. Would you like to change religions? I have a free book written by Jesus.(LAUGHTER)KURTZLEBEN: Oh, goodness.SANDERS: I was thinking about this same kind of idea. I am obsessed with the movie soundtrack to the film adaptation of "Dreamgirls," which happened right around the time that Obama was running for president. And there are some parallels between those two things, too, because, in a way, "Dreamgirls" is all about Blackness and crossover and respectability. And in lots of ways, Obama's first race for president was about all of those things. Because I mentioned "Dreamgirls," now we're forced to hear a bit of it.(LAUGHTER)SANDERS: It has to be this, of course.ELVING: It has to be Jennifer. But I actually thought you were going to go to "Cadillac Car."SANDERS: Oh, yeah.ELVING: Because, if you will, I mean, the way that gets stolen and then, you know, pablumized (ph) and Pat Boone-ized (ph) and...SANDERS: Yeah.ELVING: ...Sanitized. You know, that's what Obama was resisting. He was resisting, to some degree, having the "Dreamgirls" process done to him.SANDERS: Yeah.MONDELLO: I really like this analysis. This is interesting, and it never occurred to me.SANDERS: Well, yeah. I mean, because, like, all of "Dreamgirls" is actually about, how Black can you be and still cross over?MONDELLO: Right.SANDERS: And that was the question that Obama had to ask himself and ask the nation...MONDELLO: Absolutely.SANDERS: ...In 2008.ELVING: Absolutely.SANDERS: He won. "Dreamgirls" did not win for best picture...(LAUGHTER)SANDERS: ...As it shouldn't have. But...ELVING: So it was a wash.SANDERS: Yeah, you know? But like, we see all of these moments where the art and the life are buttoned up against each other. When the politics happens in musicals, are the musicals treating politics as a good thing or a bad thing?KURTZLEBEN: Well, I don't know if that's quite the right question.SANDERS: Yeah.KURTZLEBEN: I mean, I think politics is sort of a natural subject for a musical or for any sort of staged play or movie or whatever because politics is conflict, and conflict drives a story.SANDERS: Yeah.KURTZLEBEN: I mean, conflict is a natural part of politics. It's what makes "Evita" interesting. It's what makes "Angels In America" - it makes all sorts of things interesting. There - it's what makes "Hamilton" interesting, one party fighting against another. It just works.SANDERS: Yeah.ELVING: But when you talk about the musical, it also speaks to a kind of idealism that is frequently - and, Bob, I'll turn to you on this. Frequently a part of the musical ethos is this super-idealism or super-romanticized notion of how good things could be.MONDELLO: Oh, absolutely. There's a lovely song from a British musical called "Pickwick" called "If I Ruled The World."(SOUNDBITE OF MUSICAL, "PICKWICK")HARRY SECOMBE: (As Pickwick, singing) If I ruled the world, every day would be the first day of spring.MONDELLO: And it was sung by Harry Secombe, an operatic tenor. And it's just the most lovely song. And he's running for office in this silly Dickensian musical. But it's - he doesn't have any platform. And he just says, well, if I ruled the world...(SOUNDBITE OF MUSICAL, "PICKWICK")SECOMBE: (As Pickwick, singing) Every man would be as free as a bird.MONDELLO: It's just a...SANDERS: Oh, I know that song.MONDELLO: It's a - yeah.SANDERS: Yes. Beautiful song.MONDELLO: It's a really - it's really lovely. I mean, what I was thinking about - what Broadway has to offer to politicians is notions of staging and of stardom. And I think what frequently happens is that a Broadway star will endorse someone or be associated with a political candidate. I mean, I remember Carol Channing, who was a buddy of LBJ's - she had just opened this little musical called "Hello, Dolly!" and just about the time when he was about to run for president. And so she - and somebody wrote some new lyrics for it, and it became "Hello, Lyndon!"(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)CAROL CHANNING: (Singing) Hello, Lyndon. Well, hello, Lyndon.MONDELLO: And she sang that at the Democratic convention. And that just wowed everybody, plus the notion of "Hello, Dolly!" being this introduction of a character in that musical as some kind of a star. And that's kind of what every politician wants at his convention - wants to be the star, wants to come down the staircase, wants to, you know, whatever. And so that kind of just works.SANDERS: Yeah.ELVING: Takes us back to the "Evita" reference, too, doesn't it?(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "EVITA")MADONNA: (As Evita, singing) I had to let it happen...ELVING: Because there's already been one Hillary Clinton rally this year where an enormous poster came down with Hillary Clinton as Evita...SANDERS: Was that on...ELVING: ...With the hair do.MONDELLO: (Laughter).KURTZLEBEN: She looks like...SANDERS: Did she want that?ELVING: Well, the campaign immediately denied anything.SANDERS: Because Evita isn't the most savory character.ELVING: No, of course not. And...KURTZLEBEN: She looks a bit like her in the - I mean, you can look at the banner and say, oh, that kind of is reminiscent of...SANDERS: Yeah. Yeah.KURTZLEBEN: Yeah.ELVING: Well, I mean, she's a Madonna character in the movie. It's - 1996 movie is Madonna.MONDELLO: Meaning pop star Madonna, not the "Madonna And Child."ELVING: Pop star, not meaning...KURTZLEBEN: Right.ELVING: ...The Madonna. There was no child. And - but here we have this figure of this woman who is - Juan Peron, dictator in Argentina - his second wife and a controversial figure in every respect singing these wonderful songs...(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "EVITA")MADONNA: (As Evita, singing) Don't cry for me, Argentina.ELVING: ...And having this sort of romantic appeal.(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "EVITA")MADONNA: (As Evita, singing) The truth is I never left you.ELVING: It is obviously not an image that the Hillary Clinton campaign wants to embrace. But...SANDERS: Because Evita was a dictator?KURTZLEBEN: Right.ELVING: Well, it just - it...KURTZLEBEN: Well, and also she was his wife, and she was known as his wife.ELVING: She was a bit of a maul (ph).KURTZLEBEN: And Hillary is trying to be a bit of an - is trying to be independent of her husband.ELVING: Right. Exactly.KURTZLEBEN: There is also that. But "Evita" has also popped up on the campaign trail, along with more Andrew Lloyd Webber, because - there is a great article by Dara Lind at Vox where she talks about Donald Trump's connection to Andrew Lloyd Webber. Donald Trump has, in the past, said that "Evita" is his favorite musical.SANDERS: Whoa.KURTZLEBEN: He has played "Music Of The Night (ph)..."(SOUNDBITE OF MUSICAL, "THE PHANTOM OF THE OPERA")UNIDENTIFIED SINGER: (As the phantom, singing) Nighttime...KURTZLEBEN: ...As some of his, like, pump-up music before rallies...SANDERS: (Laughter).KURTZLEBEN: ...The same way that Hillary plays "Fight Song."SANDERS: Oh, my goodness.MONDELLO: "Music Of The Night" is from "Phantom (ph)?" Oh, my goodness.KURTZLEBEN: Yeah, yeah, yeah.MONDELLO: Oh, really?(SOUNDBITE OF MUSICAL, "THE PHANTOM OF THE OPERA")UNIDENTIFIED SINGER: (As the phantom, singing) Slowly, gently...BOB MONDELLO AND DANIELLE KURTZLEBEN: (Singing) Da, da, da, da, da, da...SANDERS: (Singing) Da, da...KURTZLEBEN: To a certain extent it does make sense, though. I mean, Broadway is associated with New York. Donald Trump is very much of New York. And Andrew Lloyd Webber writes these really big, outsized characters, and Donald Trump is a big character, you know?MONDELLO: (Laughter).KURTZLEBEN: He's a big personality, you know? And...ELVING: So it has something for everyone in this campaign.SANDERS: Yeah. Yeah.MONDELLO: I will give you that. On the other hand, if I were positioning something for Mr. Trump, who seems unhappy with the idea of foreign influences, you've got Andrew Lloyd Webber, who is a British composer, and that particular show is about the Paris Opera. So you know, I mean, if you were going...KURTZLEBEN: Fair enough.MONDELLO: If you were going to pick an American musical to represent him, you might want to pick something like - I don't know, something popular like "The Music Man."(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "THE MUSIC MAN")ROBERT PRESTON: (As Harold Hill, singing) May I have your attention, please? Attention please.MONDELLO: That just make more sense to me.ELVING: I like the idea of "Music Man (ph)." Because you've got this ultra-salesman...(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "THE MUSIC MAN")PRESTON: (As Harold Hill, singing) Please observe me, if you will.ELVING: ...Who comes to town...(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "THE MUSIC MAN")PRESTON: (As Harold Hill, singing) I'm Professor Harold Hill. And I'm here to organize a River City Boys Band.MONDELLO: Oh, interesting. I wasn't...ELVING: ...And changes everyone's idea about what's going on and what they are really threatened by in their lives.KURTZLEBEN: Now, if Donald Trump had won Iowa, it would make more sense. Because Harold Hill won over the people of Iowa.ELVING: Oh, there's always an editor. There's always someone...KURTZLEBEN: (Laughter).ELVING: ...Who's coming in with facts.(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "THE MUSIC MAN")PRESTON: (As Harold Hill, singing) Seventy-six trombones led the big parade...MONDELLO: Yeah, the real problem operatically or in terms of song for Trump is that the word Trump ends in a consonant and is hard to sing. If you try to sustain the note, it's easy to sustain Evita. But you...SANDERS: You can sustain Trump.MONDELLO: (Singing) Trump.ELVING: Consonants...SANDERS: (Singing) Trump.MONDELLO: (Laughter).ELVING: No.(LAUGHTER)ELVING: How about "76 Trumpets (ph)?"SANDERS: Can I make a Trump suggestion re: musicals?(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "CIRCLE OF LIFE")LEBO M: (Singing in Zulu).(LAUGHTER)SANDERS: Don't laugh. (Laughter) Don't laugh.(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "CIRCLE OF LIFE")LEBO M: (Singing in Zulu).SANDERS: OK. But is Trump Mufasa or Scar?MONDELLO: (Laughter).ELVING: No. He's actually...KURTZLEBEN: What?ELVING: I think, actually...SANDERS: Or Simba?ELVING: I actually thought Ted Cruz was a pretty good Scar, or Newt Gingrich because he's clearly trying to manipulate Trump.SANDERS: What if Trump is, like, Rafiki?ELVING: Actually, you're going to have...SANDERS: (Laughter) Bob's like, nope.KURTZLEBEN: Oh, my God.ELVING: You're going to have a problem.(LAUGHTER)MONDELLO: I'm sorry, how do I make a really big sigh (laughter)?KURTZLEBEN: Right.SANDERS: You just did.ELVING: I think you're going to have a problem with the whole "Lion King" thing...KURTZLEBEN: Speaking of...ELVING: ...Especially because we know that it's actually Obama's birth video.SANDERS: Oh. Ba-dum-bum (ph).KURTZLEBEN: Oh, God (laughter).ELVING: You know that...SANDERS: I don't know if - I don't think that makes the cut.ELVING: You know that whole joke that he did at the White House...SANDERS: Whee (ph).ELVING: ...Correspondents' Dinner.KURTZLEBEN: Yeah, that joke was...MONDELLO: Was that his joke?SANDERS: Oh, that was a joke that he did. OK. It's an actual thing.(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Tonight, for the first time, I am releasing my official birth video.(LAUGHTER)ELVING: It actually had to do with Trump. He says, Donald Trump is here tonight, and Donald has, I think, been satisfied that I released my birth certificate. Haven't heard a lot more on that subject.(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)OBAMA: No one has seen this footage in 50 years - not even me. But let's take a look.(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "CIRCLE OF LIFE")SANDERS: Yes.ELVING: Up on the screens comes...MONDELLO: That's right. I remember.SANDERS: Upon Pride Rock.ELVING: ...The first 30 seconds...SANDERS: Yeah.ELVING: ...Of "Lion King" and, you know, with Rafiki holding up the baby.SANDERS: Also, I must say, that is my favorite musical.KURTZLEBEN: Wait, wait, wait. Hold on.SANDERS: I will tell you why. OK. So...KURTZLEBEN: Julie Taymor - like, Julie Taymor "Lion King."SANDERS: Oh, God. Oh, yeah.KURTZLEBEN: Yeah. This is your favorite musical?SANDERS: I'm going to tell you why. And I've only seen a handful of musicals in person, but I'll tell you why I love this. I was in South Africa when I saw it. Most of the Broadway cast is from South Africa. This was their kind of first run of homecoming shows.MONDELLO: Oh, wow.KURTZLEBEN: OK. OK.MONDELLO: I could see that was a big deal.SANDERS: So when I went, it was their first big time doing it back home, like, for the country. And there are just moments where it just moves you so much.MONDELLO: Yeah. I don't think you have to apologize for thinking "The Lion King" is a great musical. It's a sensational piece of staging.SANDERS: And just, like, as a visual feast.ELVING: Absolutely.SANDERS: And all the songs rock because Elton John...ELVING: Elton John wrote them.SANDERS: ...And the other guy - Tim Rice.ELVING: Tim Rice, yeah.SANDERS: And it's just perfect. Anyway...KURTZLEBEN: Well, there's one point that I think is important in this particular election and the last few years, is that as recently as a few years ago, there were several articles, there was a book, there was all this stuff about the decline of the Broadway musical. There was a bit of moaning about how there wasn't original music anymore. You were getting, you know, the "American Idiot," you know, rock opera. You were getting "Mamma Mia!" You're getting...MONDELLO: Right.ELVING: Revivals.KURTZLEBEN: ...All of this. Right.ELVING: Musicals based on Top 40.MONDELLO: Jukebox musicals, they call them.KURTZLEBEN: Right. Absolutely. There's - and now there's a Carole King one. There was a Billy Joel one, I think. But I think in the last few years, the musical has been a little bit democratized. You have - you know, "Glee" sort of made it a little bit cool to be, you know...SANDERS: Yeah.KURTZLEBEN: ...A drama nerd and a singing nerd. There was that show "Smash," which, you know, maybe is ironically named.SANDERS: Don't clown on that show.KURTZLEBEN: No, I'm not.SANDERS: It had some good songs.KURTZLEBEN: I'm not.SANDERS: (Laughter).KURTZLEBEN: You know, but now the live musicals have been on TV. So you know - because...SANDERS: Musicals are back.MONDELLO: Yeah. You know, Broadway is actually - the Broadway musical is the American art form. It's - you know, it's what we do. I started this off by saying I honestly believe you can explain everything through Broadway musicals. I am still convinced of that. And you guys have convinced me that I'm not always seeing it all because "Dreamgirls" is a really interesting rap on that.SANDERS: What musical - and I'm speaking with a broad rubric here, so we can be open to whate