Airflow is everything

[Keith Park]

 

Ive been noodling with airflow to keep the 2056 cooler on the hot days after discovering that a bounce drier sheet in the fan leads to 15 degree warmer oil temps and merely running with the rear decklid open can raise temps by 5-10 degree’s.  I stuck a piece of sheetmetal  under the rear suspension to deflect some air up into the area above the tranny where the oil cooler was, and WOW!  Higher oil pressures and a slightly cooler engine.  SO… next up was a 3” hose to grab air from under the car and blow it on the input to the oil cooler, and again, WOW!  2-4 PSI more oil pressure which means a significant drop in oil temperatures, although when read in the sump temps only improved by 10 degree’s or so but every little bit counts.

 

So last trip to the camp thru the mountains I was pulling a heavy load on the trailer, but with the new airhose underneath I ran at least 4PSI higher oil pressures and engine

Temps never got above 225 even on the big hill…. I let it go up the big 3 mile hill full throttle at 3200 RPM 70MPH on an 85 degree day and it warmed up real good but kept a lid on over heating!  I think Im on to something here…. Now how to force induction on the engine air with the cool stuff?  Not sure if I can plumb a hose into the air intake but IF I CAN, I think I can get engine temps down too, not that they are unreasonable now… but on hot days it would help especially if Im pulling a load.  The T4 system seems to do a better job of keeping the engine at the correct temp too, perhaps because they produce so much more heat than the T3 stocker, so the additional air shouldn’t make the engine run TOO cool, which of course would also be bad.

 

I came home last night it was 73 out and ran 53 PSI on the highway when I previously only ran 48, so big difference and 53 is where you hit the relief valve so who knows where it would have been without that. 

 

Keith

[Jim Adney]

Just be careful that you don't start to pick up dirt that slowly stuffs dirt into
the cooler, etc. It helps to have a corner that the heavy stuff won't make it
around, and a place where the heavy stuff can come to rest, so you can
clean it out occasionally.

Back in the day, there were places who made scoops to fit over our cooling
air intake louvers. That was probably a better place to find cleaner air.

That said, it's tempting to think that more oil pressure is better, but at 50 psi I
think you're already way past the sweet spot. Consider switching to a lighter
oil, where the oil pressure is less, and the HP wasted pumping it is also less,
and see if you can still see a reduction in oil temp. Keep in mind tha the
power spent pumping your oil just goes into heating the oil, and that power
equals flow x pressure.

If you're seeing 225 deg oil temps, then reducing oil temp is an important
goal, but increasing oil pressure becomes counterproductive at some point.

Jim

On 5 Aug 2026 at 20:37, Keith Park wrote:

> Ive been noodling with airflow to keep the 2056 cooler on the hot days after
> discovering that a bounce drier sheet in the fan leads to 15 degree warmer
> oil temps and merely running with the rear decklid open can raise temps by
> 5-10 degree's. I stuck a piece of sheetmetal under the rear suspension to
> deflect some air up into the area above the tranny where the oil cooler was,

> and WOW! Higher oil pressures and a slightly cooler engine. SO. next up

> was a 3" hose to grab air from under the car and blow it on the input to the
> oil cooler, and again, WOW! 2-4 PSI more oil pressure which means a
> significant drop in oil temperatures, although when read in the sump temps
> only improved by 10 degree's or so but every little bit counts.
>
>
>
> So last trip to the camp thru the mountains I was pulling a heavy load on
> the trailer, but with the new airhose underneath I ran at least 4PSI higher
> oil pressures and engine
>

> Temps never got above 225 even on the big hill.. I let it go up the big 3

> mile hill full throttle at 3200 RPM 70MPH on an 85 degree day and it warmed
> up real good but kept a lid on over heating! I think Im on to something

> here.. Now how to force induction on the engine air with the cool stuff?

> Not sure if I can plumb a hose into the air intake but IF I CAN, I think I

> can get engine temps down too, not that they are unreasonable now. but on

> hot days it would help especially if Im pulling a load. The T4 system seems
> to do a better job of keeping the engine at the correct temp too, perhaps
> because they produce so much more heat than the T3 stocker, so the
> additional air shouldn't make the engine run TOO cool, which of course would
> also be bad.
>
>
>
> I came home last night it was 73 out and ran 53 PSI on the highway when I
> previously only ran 48, so big difference and 53 is where you hit the relief
> valve so who knows where it would have been without that.
>
>
>
> Keith
>

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Madison, Wisconsin, USA
*******************************

[Keith Park]

Hose does go up, over and around the tranny, but yea, I need to make sure things stay clean under there.

Scoops would work, but they are horribly ugly, cant do that to it!

In my case the higher pressure means cooler oil, which is what I want but yea, those pressures are just fine.

Keith


Topnotch Restorations
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[William Hoyer]

Are you running a fan on the oil cooler above the trans?

I am running a fan controlled by a thermostat on the return line to the engine that turns the fan at about 180 and even with 100 degree temp the oil temp stays right about 180.

Bill

--

[Stephen Unsworth]

Sent via BT Email App

From: Jim Adney
Sent: Aug 6, 2026 at 2:20 AM
To: type...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [T3] Airflow is everything

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[Keith Park]

It’s a Setrab with a thermos fan, but air stagnates under there apparently, so getting cool road air up to it helps a lot,

Without the additional air it was still dropping oil temps by about 20F.

 

Keith

 

Topnotch Restorations

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From: type...@googlegroups.com <type...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of William Hoyer
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2026 12:15 AM
To: type...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [T3] Airflow is everything

 

Are you running a fan on the oil cooler above the trans?

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[William Hoyer]

Do you have it sucking down or blowing up? Mine is a 96 fin w/fan sucking down & 1" plus to body & a 72 fin w/fan in a bug and both seem to keep temp about 180 even on hottest days. Using 1/2" lines from filter & back to engine. Notch has 1 qt sump & bug 1 1/2 qt.

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[Keith Park]

It sucks down, what engine are you running?

Keith

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[William Hoyer]

1904 cc, 74mm crank 90.5 pistons

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[William Hoyer]

I don't run high compression engines, 7.8 compression

[Max Welton]

When I had a Setrab in my 68, I mounted it down low so it could pick up air passing under the car. Worked well.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/721927.jpg

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/707891.jpg

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/707889.jpg

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/707890.jpg

Max

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[Keith Park]

That may be fine without the extra forced air.  I still get 20F reduction without the tube.

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[Keith Park]

Yea, your not trying to get rid of the amount of heat I am, plus your T3 has the 2 stage fan

So the engine cooling is as it should be.  Lower CR is a good idea to avoid excess heat.

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[Keith Park]

Yea, that’s a good idea!  You’ll do better down there except maybe for road dirt…  mine see’s a lot of dirt road driving in and out of the camp

So it might be an issue for me…

 

Topnotch Restorations

topn...@nycap.rr.com

http://www.topnotchresto.com

 

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[Dave Hall]

Well done , Steve.  I'm still on the list but no car now. Anne drives our Auto Polo now!  Have you got to an invasion yet?9

Dave H. 

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[Stephen Unsworth]

Great to hear from you Dave.

I do not know the Ages of our other Type 3&4 Club Members but I must be amongst the Oldest now ? 71 next birthday. Certainty one of the longest standing Members. Think I joined in 1986. My original Membership Number was 088

Don't expect I will ever get to an Invasion. I just keep buying the T Shirt most years. Enquired this year ( about the T Shirt ) but did not get any further.

Engine Rebuild was by Chris McPheat, McPheat Automotive near Lancaster, only 30 Minutes from home. Chris restores all makes of Vintage and Classic Cars.

We still also have the 1966 Beetle - Body Off Resto by IRVs VW Restorations. We also have the 2003 Audi A2, Audi A6 Avant 2.0 Tdi Quattro, 2017 Audi RS6 Avant and last December finally bought a 2017 Porsche 911 Carrera 4 GTS. Always said I would have one before I die !

Sent via BT Email App

Dave H. 

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[Jim Adney]

On 5 Aug 2026 at 21:49, Keith Park wrote:

> In my case the higher pressure means cooler oil, which is what I want but
> yea, those pressures are just fine.

If you switched to lighter oil, you might find that you'd get even lower temps
along with lower pressure. There's little to be gained from churning extra
energy into the oil; that's just heating the oil. Oil FLOW, like airflow, is the
important thing, and increased pressure DOES NOT mean increased flow.

Gene Berg even came out with an opinion on this. He pointed out that what
our engines needed was not pressure, but FLOW. As long as our bearing
clearances are okay, they only need enough oil to keep them full. The
spinning of the parts, within the bearings, will generate its own pressure
where it's needed. This pressure will be MUCH higher than what is shown on
our gauges and won't be increased by having more pressure output from the
pump, as long as there's enough FLOW to keep the bearings full.

Since the pump is close to a positive displacement pump, the flow is just
determined by the pump geometry and RPM. This means that when you add
extra heat, thru HP upgrades, it is likely that you'll also need to improve
cooling. We agree on this.

Since Bentley never made a Type 4 manual, I just went to the Bentley Type
2 manual to refresh my memory about lubrication in the Type 4 engine. I
learned a few interesting things.

The test criteria is SAE30 oil at 158 F and 2500 RPM. That should give you
~42 psi, with a wear limit of 28 psi. (Ch. 5, pg. 84)

Looking at the oil passage diagram, we can see that high oil pressure will
open the pressure relief valve, at the rear of the case, causing oil to bypass
the oil cooler, which will be counterproductive. The pressure relief valve is
there to limit oil pressure during cold start and warmup. It bypasses thru a
passage that limits the amount of oil that it can bypass. I don't find any
mention of the pressure when that valve opens; it's probably there
somewhere, but I haven't found it.

The oil pressure control valve, at the front of the case, is there to drain off
excess oil if the pressure is too high. Using heavy oil will cause that valve to
open, but, again, the drain passage is small enough that it can be
overwhelmed, but doing this just means that you're wasting power to heat
the oil up to pressures that are too high.

[Dave Hall]

Hello Steve,

Ithanks for the update.  I turned 80 lasf .March, and need a hip op, but having had a new heart valve a few years ago, they're not too keen to take a chance on it, so I hobble about!

I always fancied a 911, but never got it!

Cheers , Dave. 

[Keith Park]

Were you looking at the 72 and newer T2 engines? They only have one relief valve unlike out later T3's.
What do you think of the cooling flaps, it’s a rather interesting way they have them set up to change airflow thru the oil
Cooler as the main flaps come open.

Keith


Topnotch Restorations
topn...@nycap.rr.com
http://www.topnotchresto.com

-----Original Message-----
From: type...@googlegroups.com <type...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Jim Adney
Sent: Friday, August 7, 2026 12:02 PM
To: type...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [T3] Airflow is everything

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[Jim Adney]

Keith,

Yes, I'm looking at the '72-on Type 4 engine info in the Type 2 Bentley
manual, and also in my Haynes 914/4 and Type 4 manuals. You had me
questioning my sanity, claiming that there is only one relief valve in a Type 4
engine, but I also have the 914 parts list in pdf format. I finally found both oil
pressure relief valves. There are two.

You may not have recognized them, because they don't look alike. The
pistons, springs, AND the screw plugs are all different from one another. I
don't have a photo to look at; I'm just looking at exploded views. It appears
that one is up under the oil filter base mount, while the other is somewhere
toward the tranny end of the case, possibly on the bottom left (as indicated
by Bentley & Haynes) but maybe on the RHS (as hinted in the 914 PL.)

Which one were you thinking of?

The oil cooler plug has a 22 mm thread, while the plug at the front (front is
front) is a 16 mm thread. I expected one of these to be the same as Types 1
& 3, but no, ours are 18 mm. So none of these parts are the same as ours.

I haven't seen how the air control flaps change air to the oil cooler on Type
4s, but airflow thru Types 1 & 3 coolers is also controlled by the flaps. I
guess VW just had to do something different on Type 4s due to the
completely different placement of the oil cooler.

Jim

On 7 Aug 2026 at 19:32, Keith Park wrote:

> Were you looking at the 72 and newer T2 engines? They only have one
> relief valve unlike out later T3's. What do you think of the cooling

> flaps, itTMs a rather interesting way they have them set up to change

> airflow thru the oil Cooler as the main flaps come open.

[Keith Park]

I thought there was one, now I gotta go out tomorrow night and look at the spare case... 2 makes sense though as this engine will never get higher than 65PSI even when its stone cold,
But the regulated pressure hot is more like 52.

I run the thick oil in this one because that is What Raby recommends with his build, he worked with Joe Gibbs to develop their DT50, which is a specialized oil designed specifically
For the air cooled engines, the VW's and Porches. It’s a 20W50 and Im sure they had some good reasons for running the heavyweights in the aircooleds, as they don’t offer the DT in thinner weights.

Topnotch Restorations
topn...@nycap.rr.com
http://www.topnotchresto.com

-----Original Message-----
From: type...@googlegroups.com <type...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Jim Adney
Sent: Saturday, August 8, 2026 3:26 PM
To: type...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [T3] Airflow is everything

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[Keith Park]

Ok, I looked at my spare case, the CASE only as one relief/control valve, there may be another one on the oil filter mount,
I don’t remember but that's a separate piece that bolts onto the case, and would only be a relief valve to limit pressure on the filter by
Bypassing it if the pressure it too high.

Keith


Topnotch Restorations
topn...@nycap.rr.com
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-----Original Message-----
From: type...@googlegroups.com <type...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Jim Adney
Sent: Saturday, August 8, 2026 3:26 PM
To: type...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [T3] Airflow is everything

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[Jim Adney]

I wish I had a good photo, but I don't. I don't think the 2nd valve is in the filter
mount, because it also bypasses the cooler. Best I can tell is that it's on the
underside of the part of the case where the filter mount attaches.

Where is the one you found? Is it on the underside of the L case half?

On 10 Aug 2026 at 23:10, Keith Park wrote:

> Ok, I looked at my spare case, the CASE only as one relief/control valve,

> there may be another one on the oil filter mount, I donTMt remember but

> that's a separate piece that bolts onto the case, and would only be a
> relief valve to limit pressure on the filter by Bypassing it if the
> pressure it too high.

[Jim Adney]

I used to buy into the higher is better oil pressure claim, but I've left that
behind. I think it's just first order thinking. It seems right, but it's incomplete.
A more complete picture would include knowing how much pressure drop
there is between the pressure sensor and the bearings. This is drop due to
the size of the oil passages and the viscosity of the oil.

Suppose you drilled out (enlarged) the oil passages. This would deliver the
same oil to the bearings (because it's basically a positive displacement
pump) but also reduce the pressure drop in the oil galleys, thus reducing the
indicated pressure at your dash. Would you be disapointed in the reduced
pressure? Would you feel like you had actually lost something important?

Your 52 psi may seen nice now, but I wonder how your oil filter and oil cooler
feel about it. My manuals mention checking the pressure relief valves if the
oil cooler has sprung a leak. Berg introduced pressure relief oil pump covers
to prevent exploding oil filters that were happening on cold engines. [I had
one of those covers on my winter car, so that I could drive it without worry in
sub-zero Wisconsin winters. It worked perfectly.]

Jim

> To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/type3list/000701dd286a%24626fa030%24274ee090%24%40nycap.rr.com.

[Keith Park]

I got back in there today, the only valve in the case is on the left half right below where the oil filter bracket mounts.

Keith


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[Jim Adney]

On 26 Aug 2026 at 21:45, Keith Park wrote:

> I got back in there today, the only valve in the case is on the left half
> right below where the oil filter bracket mounts.

What manuals do you have that cover the Type 4 engine. If I have the same
manual, I should be able to point out an illustration that shows what I'm
talking about.

I also have the VW Type 4 microfilm, but no actual microfilm reader. I can
read it, with difficulty, with a magnifier. That's a pain, but I should try to see
what it shows.

You found the rear assembly, good. The front one MIGHT be on the other
(right) case half, and the 914 illustration shows it coming in from the RIGHT,
not the bottom.

[Mike Fisher]

You can buy used microfilm readers Cheap!   

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[Jim Adney]

On 27 Aug 2026 at 11:06, Mike Fisher wrote:

> You can buy used microfilm readers Cheap!

Yes, at least not too expensive, but they're still big and I'm in the process of
downsizing. I've looked at a few, and there's always the problem of "will they
display a large size VW parts microfilm?" Many are set up to handle
microfiche, which are IBM cards with a small microfilm "window."

[Keith Park]

Your RIGHT! Its under a bolthead looking cap, forgot all about that one! Good eyes, you don’t need a reader.....
Don’t remember which was a relief valve and which was pressure regulator but they do control things at a different rate
Than the T3 ones did.

Keith

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[Jim Adney]

On 30 Aug 2026 at 22:21, Keith Park wrote:

> Your RIGHT! Its under a bolthead looking cap, forgot all about that one!

> Good eyes, you donTMt need a reader..... DonTMt remember which was a

> relief valve and which was pressure regulator but they do control things
> at a different rate Than the T3 ones did.

Can you give me a really good idea of where it's located? I'd expect it to be
on the LH case half, at the tranny end, and facing down, but please confirm
or correct. I gather that the cover has a male hex instead of a large
screwdriver slot, is that correct?

I think the functions are the same as on a late Type 3 case: The rear is a
pressure relief and bypass around the oil cooler and the front is an overall
pressure relief. But the pressure numbers are likely to be different.

Berg had a writeup at one point about how large oil pumps could overwhelm
the front (tranny end) valve, so that enlarging the bleed hole into the sump
might be necessary to prevent extreme overpressure. I believe he pointed
out that just enlarging that hole, which was the easy way to do it, would also
drop the pressure relief threshold. I always figured that the right way to do
this mod would be to mill the hole offset downward, so the top of the holes,
instead of the centers, were aligned. That's harder to do, but avoids the
problem.

[Keith Park]

Its on the right half, below 1 and 2 cylinders pointing inward on the side of the case, I think It was a female spline head if I recall right.

Keith


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-----Original Message-----
From: type...@googlegroups.com <type...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Jim Adney
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2026 11:05 AM
To: type...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [T3] Airflow is everything

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[Jim Adney]

On 31 Aug 2026 at 11:25, Keith Park wrote:

> Its on the right half, below 1 and 2 cylinders pointing inward on the side
> of the case, I think It was a female spline head if I recall right.

Okay, so it faces to the right. This location conforms to what's shown on the
914 microfilm. A female spline sounds odd, but who knows....

Sounds like it's right where the oil galley crosses from left to right, around
the cam tunnel, putting this relief valve closer to the end of the line.

[Gary Forsmo]

Jim ... since you are such a "stickler" for correct terminology, I believe the correct term is OIL GALLERY, not "galley". 🤭

I applaud you for using correct terms.  

It drives me a little nutsey when people (not you 🤣) perpetuate incorrect English.  I am certainly not an Anglophone in all cases. 😁

Gary F. - Oregon WI

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[Keith Park]

Yes, its punches in toward the cam.

Keith


Topnotch Restorations
topn...@nycap.rr.com
http://www.topnotchresto.com

-----Original Message-----
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Subject: Re: [T3] Airflow is everything

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[Jim Adney]

Gary,

Thanks for the correction. I though I was doing it right, so I checked with
Webster to see if that would help. There were no definitions of gallery that fit
exactly, but the definition of galley made it clear that galley was incorrect.

Some of the definitions of gallery describe small passages made by insects
or small animals, so I think that's what applies here.

I followed up with a Google search on "oil galley" and found lots of people
making the same mistake, so it's common, but that doesn't make it right.

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