A Revised Proposal for the Objective and Agenda of the Study Group

95 views
Skip to first unread message

Mark Farrell

unread,
Apr 20, 2016, 12:16:45 PM4/20/16
to Type Theory Study Group
Hi everyone,

The study group has seemed to have died out quite a bit, unfortunately. I've been thinking that part of the reason for this could be a lack of sufficiently clear objectives for the study group, and potential confusion over how the PFPL book in particular fits into this picture.

I've free-writed a statement about what the 'official' objectives of the group possibly could be, and made a sharpened list of topics to study to meet theses objectives, aligned with PFPL in part. Open to suggestions; just something I felt like writing down and wanted to share, to see how it would fit from other participant's perspectives and goals. Thoughts?

---

The objective of the Type Theory Study Group is to foster an online community, open to all, dedicated to learning type theory. As a study group, one of our aims is to break the entire body of literature on type theory considered into smaller parts, and collectively learn each individual part in an appropriate ordered fashion. To learn each part of the literature on type theory, we wish to organize online group discussions dedicated to disseminating and offering exercises on said part of the literature, to focus on gaining an understanding of it. Type theory is arguably quite an interesting subject area, with interesting connections and applications to programming language theory, computational linguistics, formalized mathematics, and more recently, synthetic homotopy theory; however, it is seemingly difficult to find pedagogical materials on type theory organized in an appropriately clear and centralized fashion. Ultimately, we hope to solve the problem of this experienced high barrier-to-entry to type theory - and hope that everybody gives and takes something away from the study group that will help them achieve goals in their respective disciplines.

Thus far we have formally organized a few Google hangouts to discuss the metatheoretical prerequisities necessary to study type theory. However, we are now looking for more volunteers, and are interested in moving forward. Please post on the mailing list if you are interested in volunteering: anyone is welcome and encouraged to lead or join a discussion!

Here is a proposed list of subparts of the literature to study:
  1. Lambda calculus, abstract binding trees, logical frameworks, and metatheorical preliminaries.
  2. Intuitionistic logic, simple type theory, Heyting algebras, and cartesian closed categories.
  3. Propositions as types, proofs as programs, and formal dependently-typed lambda calculi.
  4. System F (in the context of programming languages), type-safety, and parametricity.
  5. Finite data types, infinite data types, and the bar induction principle.
  6. Linear type theory, game semantics and vector space semantics.
  7. Set-theoretic perspectives on type theories, types as generalized topological spaces, and elementary topos theory.
  8. Dana Scott's logic for computable functions, denonational semantics and meaning theory.
  9. Proof refinement logics, computational type theories, and interesting proofs in open-ended computation systems.
  10. Homotopy-theoretic models of type theory, higher type theory, and achieving Alexander Grothendieck's goal for a formal axiomatic theory of infinity groupoids (in the context of doing homotopy theory synthetically).

---


Thanks,


Mark

Miles Sabin

unread,
Apr 20, 2016, 12:31:22 PM4/20/16
to Mark Farrell, Type Theory Study Group
From my point of view in the UK, and I expect others elsewhere in
Europe, the hangout times were a bit of a non-starter.

Cheers,


Miles
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Type Theory Study Group" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to type-theory-study...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to
> type-theory...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/type-theory-study-group/08224191-7e04-4d48-9a69-fd69f2df3a6c%40googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.



--
Miles Sabin
tel: +44 7813 944 528
skype: milessabin
gtalk: mi...@milessabin.com
http://milessabin.com/blog
http://twitter.com/milessabin

Mark Farrell

unread,
Apr 20, 2016, 1:32:38 PM4/20/16
to Type Theory Study Group
Given that the group has lost momentum, I might propose that the meeting times should perhaps be more flexible, for those who want to participate, but afternoons EST doesn't work for them: e.g. if people who aren't around afternoons EST want to organize or participate in a meeting, I think that should be encouraged now too. I think that sounds okay since the meetings are recorded, even though it might not be ideal to be flipping all over the place with the times. Maybe if the study group gains momentum again, perhaps a summary-blog about what's going on might be useful, or something like that. That would be my two cents at least, at the moment; can't personally think of a better solution to the timezone issue.

Craig Stuntz

unread,
Apr 20, 2016, 2:21:33 PM4/20/16
to Mark Farrell, Type Theory Study Group

I've been thinking it might make sense to do something nice for the release of the 2nd edition. A group purchase, interview with Dr. Harper, maybe other stuff?

Craig


> To post to this group, send email to
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Type Theory Study Group" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to type-theory-study...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to type-theory...@googlegroups.com.

Aggelos Biboudis

unread,
Apr 20, 2016, 7:34:53 PM4/20/16
to Craig Stuntz, Mark Farrell, Type Theory Study Group
Maybe following one particular book makes people go away. Skipping a lecture may put them in a difficult position to follow the rest.

Let's do it like a seminar (even with applied stuff): one hands-on talk to work with AGDA, play with it, analyze its type-theoretic framework and why simply Haskell cannot do the stuff (informally at first). Let's play with PLT-redex, see operational semantics execute, another one could be Coq. Throw in some early bits of TAPL and PFPL/ATTAPL.

All that. More like a seminar and open discussion and less, reading a book from cover to cover.

WDYT?


Matt Oliveri

unread,
Apr 21, 2016, 2:58:14 AM4/21/16
to Type Theory Study Group
On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 12:16:45 PM UTC-4, Mark Farrell wrote:
The objective of the Type Theory Study Group is to foster an online community, open to all, dedicated to learning type theory. As a study group, one of our aims is to break the entire body of literature on type theory considered into smaller parts, and collectively learn each individual part in an appropriate ordered fashion.

Wait, _all_ of it?! Isn't that too much? Probably, each learner will have some particular goal more specific and constructive than to learn as much about type theory as possible. I suggest that a general "type theory" group should cover material common to all approaches, and maybe give a big picture comparing and contrasting different programs that dig deeper. This way learners have an easier time picking the best way to pursue their specific goal.

To learn each part of the literature on type theory, we wish to organize online group discussions dedicated to disseminating and offering exercises on said part of the literature, to focus on gaining an understanding of it. Type theory is arguably quite an interesting subject area, with interesting connections and applications to programming language theory, computational linguistics, formalized mathematics, and more recently, synthetic homotopy theory; however, it is seemingly difficult to find pedagogical materials on type theory organized in an appropriately clear and centralized fashion. Ultimately, we hope to solve the problem of this experienced high barrier-to-entry to type theory - and hope that everybody gives and takes something away from the study group that will help them achieve goals in their respective disciplines.

I haven't actually perceived a lack of clear pedagogical material. I'm interested to know what kind of centralized organization you're looking for. Can you explain what you mean by that in more detail?

Thus far we have formally organized a few Google hangouts to discuss the metatheoretical prerequisities necessary to study type theory. However, we are now looking for more volunteers, and are interested in moving forward. Please post on the mailing list if you are interested in volunteering: anyone is welcome and encouraged to lead or join a discussion!

Here is a proposed list of subparts of the literature to study:
  1. Lambda calculus, abstract binding trees, logical frameworks, and metatheorical preliminaries.
  2. Intuitionistic logic, simple type theory, Heyting algebras, and cartesian closed categories.
  3. Propositions as types, proofs as programs, and formal dependently-typed lambda calculi.
  4. System F (in the context of programming languages), type-safety, and parametricity.
  5. Finite data types, infinite data types, and the bar induction principle.
  6. Linear type theory, game semantics and vector space semantics.
  7. Set-theoretic perspectives on type theories, types as generalized topological spaces, and elementary topos theory.
  8. Dana Scott's logic for computable functions, denonational semantics and meaning theory.
  9. Proof refinement logics, computational type theories, and interesting proofs in open-ended computation systems.
  10. Homotopy-theoretic models of type theory, higher type theory, and achieving Alexander Grothendieck's goal for a formal axiomatic theory of infinity groupoids (in the context of doing homotopy theory synthetically).
That's a lot of topics! We're gonna have to pick up the pace. :)
Is this list in some order? I'm curious to see lists of topics ordered by level of interest from various people. This could help pick a curriculum that will hold people's interest.

Mark Farrell

unread,
Apr 21, 2016, 9:12:52 AM4/21/16
to Type Theory Study Group, m4fa...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
Sounds like a cool idea to me.
> To post to this group, send email to
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/type-theory-study-group/08224191-7e04-4d48-9a69-fd69f2df3a6c%40googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.



--
Miles Sabin
tel: +44 7813 944 528
skype: milessabin

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Type Theory Study Group" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to type-theory-study-group+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

Mark Farrell

unread,
Apr 21, 2016, 9:47:48 AM4/21/16
to Type Theory Study Group
The objective of the Type Theory Study Group is to foster an online community, open to all, dedicated to learning type theory. As a study group, one of our aims is to break the entire body of literature on type theory considered into smaller parts, and collectively learn each individual part in an appropriate ordered fashion.
Wait, _all_ of it?! Isn't that too much? Probably, each learner will have some particular goal more specific and constructive than to learn as much about type theory as possible. I suggest that a general "type theory" group should cover material common to all approaches, and maybe give a big picture comparing and contrasting different programs that dig deeper. This way learners have an easier time picking the best way to pursue their specific goal.

Yeah, I would agree. Don't have much data about what other participants' goals are though. I wrote what I wrote partly to see what kind of response it would generate.


To learn each part of the literature on type theory, we wish to organize online group discussions dedicated to disseminating and offering exercises on said part of the literature, to focus on gaining an understanding of it. Type theory is arguably quite an interesting subject area, with interesting connections and applications to programming language theory, computational linguistics, formalized mathematics, and more recently, synthetic homotopy theory; however, it is seemingly difficult to find pedagogical materials on type theory organized in an appropriately clear and centralized fashion. Ultimately, we hope to solve the problem of this experienced high barrier-to-entry to type theory - and hope that everybody gives and takes something away from the study group that will help them achieve goals in their respective disciplines.
 
I haven't actually perceived a lack of clear pedagogical material. I'm interested to know what kind of centralized organization you're looking for. Can you explain what you mean by that in more detail?

I think it would be nice to have a collection of notes, that treats type theory and its interactions with the other fields I mentioned in a well-understood fashion, and includes exercises. I think the homotopy type theory book is an interesting thought-experiment, but I think it only gets half-way there and is a bit misleading; to my understanding, they were pressured to publish it quickly, before it was naturally ready.

On the other hand, I think the Oregon Programming Languages Summer School are fantastic on there own, but some more exercises and active learning materials would be nice. I wish there was a chapter of a book that would extend Bob Harper's lectures talking about intuitionistic propositional logic, Heyting algebras, and link it to the study of cartesian closed categories, how the open sets of a topological space form a Heyting algebra as well, and get into elementary topos theory. I'd like to explore what important theorems or results can be said in this area and what implications they might have. Loosely speaking, I'd like some computational-trinitarianism-themed learning materials that takes a step back from homotopy type theory and focusses on smaller areas that are well understood, and doesn't really expect learns to be quite at the experience level to handle something like Sheaves in Geometry and Logic on their own either.

It also took me a long time to even understand what computational type theories and proof refinement logics even are, in constrast to the kinds of formal type theories seen in the core languages of most current formal proof checkers. Only very recently has Danny Gratze published MiniPRL project, for example, making clearer (to me) what computational type theory is about. I'd also like some exercises to try to actually use these kinds of proof development systems, and can't seem to strictly speaking find educational books of that kind of in it. So, if I eventually get around to thinking of exercises to try on my own, I might like to share that.

There's also the appearance of type theory in linguistics; for example the book on type-theoretical grammar, and the work that Jon Sterling and Darryl McAdams have been doing with regards to modelling linguistic phenonena type-theoretically.

I think it would be interesting to address those appearances in a 'coherent' fashion, where we have the scope of type theory's appearances/uses in mind, and how these appearances/uses are related to each other.

I know I've experienced a perceived barrier-to-entry problem myself with type theory and related fields. If others have experienced this as well, I think there is work we could do to mitigate that for future audiences.


Here is a proposed list of subparts of the literature to study:
  1. Lambda calculus, abstract binding trees, logical frameworks, and metatheorical preliminaries.
  2. Intuitionistic logic, simple type theory, Heyting algebras, and cartesian closed categories.
  3. Propositions as types, proofs as programs, and formal dependently-typed lambda calculi.
  4. System F (in the context of programming languages), type-safety, and parametricity.
  5. Finite data types, infinite data types, and the bar induction principle.
  6. Linear type theory, game semantics and vector space semantics.
  7. Set-theoretic perspectives on type theories, types as generalized topological spaces, and elementary topos theory.
  8. Dana Scott's logic for computable functions, denonational semantics and meaning theory.
  9. Proof refinement logics, computational type theories, and interesting proofs in open-ended computation systems.
  10. Homotopy-theoretic models of type theory, higher type theory, and achieving Alexander Grothendieck's goal for a formal axiomatic theory of infinity groupoids (in the context of doing homotopy theory synthetically).

That's a lot of topics! We're gonna have to pick up the pace. :)
Is this list in some order? I'm curious to see lists of topics ordered by level of interest from various people. This could help pick a curriculum that will hold people's interest.

I tried to create a list that touches on as many corners of the literature as I am currently aware of; it is ordered in a way that I think would make sense. Totally open to change, improvements, or complete revisal though.

Jon Sterling

unread,
Apr 21, 2016, 11:30:24 AM4/21/16
to type-theory...@googlegroups.com
Dear all,

If I could make one suggestion, it would be to replace the idea of a
grand list of topics to explore with a single thing, namely the "next
topic to explore" (which could be decided on a group basis, or
whatever). Agendas that see far into the future tend to have a way of
becoming irrelevant, or discouraging...

With regard to the barrier-to-entry problem, that's a good point
(though, I think, something like Category Theory has a much more
difficult barrier-to-entry than type theory); I think part of the
problem may be that the literature is so vast and interesting that it is
easy to try and bite off way too large a chunk, and then get confused or
at least discouraged. My friend Darryl said the other day, "Trying to
run before you can walk typically delays your ability to do either."

Frankly, to "enter" type theory, you need only to have read and *really
understood* (thence, read multiple times) the following texts:

1. Martin-Löf: Intuitionistic Type Theory (the "Bibliopolis book")
2. Martin-Löf: Constructive Mathematics and Computer Programming
3. Martin-Löf: On the Meanings of the Logical Constants and the
Justifications of the Logical Laws
4. Nordström et al: Programming in Martin-Löf's Type Theory
5. Notes from every Pfenning lecture (for perspective on proof theory)
6. [leaving this list open-ended]

Obviously, there's much more to do after you've read these things, but
you'll have the basis for doing so at that point...

But my point is that the actual barrier to entry as I have construed it
above is fairly low, but the activity it requires is somewhat tedious
and "unsexy", and even boring (depending on personality). It involves
reading the fundamental literature again and again until you really get
it... What it does not involve is a fantastic adventure through the
numerous applications of type theory, etc., or a number of areas that
absolutely fascinating but only vaguely related to type theory (higher
algebra / abstract binding trees, game semantics, topos theory,
synthetic homotopy theory, linguistics/semantics/pragmatics, Logic for
Computable Functions, domain theory, bar induction, etc.).

All these topics are AWESOME and I LOVE the list—it looks like a list of
my personal favorite things. But I question whether even learning all of
it would help someone who is mystified by type theory. I also wonder
whether this activity is in fact enhanced by a group (or panel) format,
considering what Martin-Löf said in 1979, "ln the end, everybody must
understand for [themselves]."

I am sorry for the long message—I would end it with the following call
to action:

Come up with a one sentence statement of the goal of the group! For
instance, the goal "Understand the literature on cubical type theory"
will require a different approach from "Understand the literature on
guarded recursion and synthetic domain theory" will require a different
approach from "Understand meaning explanations" will require a different
approach from "understand Nuprl and the PRL methodology", etc. I think
that each of these things takes a long time to understand, and so a
program of study that takes a whirlwind tour through multiple of them
probably will not be successful.

Best wishes,
Jon
> > 1. Lambda calculus, abstract binding trees, logical frameworks, and
> > metatheorical preliminaries.
> > 2. Intuitionistic logic, simple type theory, Heyting algebras, and
> > cartesian closed categories.
> > 3. Propositions as types, proofs as programs, and formal
> > dependently-typed lambda calculi.
> > 4. System F (in the context of programming languages), type-safety,
> > and parametricity.
> > 5. Finite data types, infinite data types, and the bar induction
> > principle.
> > 6. Linear type theory, game semantics and vector space semantics.
> > 7. Set-theoretic perspectives on type theories, types as generalized
> > topological spaces, and elementary topos theory.
> > 8. Dana Scott's logic for computable functions, denonational semantics
> > and meaning theory.
> > 9. Proof refinement logics, computational type theories, and
> > interesting proofs in open-ended computation systems.
> > 10. Homotopy-theoretic models of type theory, higher type theory, and
> > achieving Alexander Grothendieck's goal for a formal axiomatic theory of
> > infinity groupoids (in the context of doing homotopy theory synthetically).
> >
> >
> > That's a lot of topics! We're gonna have to pick up the pace. :)
> >> Is this list in some order? I'm curious to see lists of topics ordered by
> >> level of interest from various people. This could help pick a curriculum
> >> that will hold people's interest.
> >>
> >
> I tried to create a list that touches on as many corners of the
> literature
> as I am currently aware of; it is ordered in a way that I think would
> make
> sense. Totally open to change, improvements, or complete revisal though.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Type Theory Study Group" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to type-theory-study...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to
> type-theory...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/type-theory-study-group/9cf0b013-47ba-49c7-b269-6aae1f1c13a2%40googlegroups.com.

Craig Stuntz

unread,
Apr 21, 2016, 11:39:07 AM4/21/16
to type-theory...@googlegroups.com
I'm enjoying PFPL when I can make time, but I got some good advice from Darryl McAdams:

http://purelytheoretical.com/sywtltt.html

In a nutshell, watch all of Frank Pfenning and then Bob Harper's 2012 OPLSS lectures first. I'm slowly doing that.

One advantage of this format is people can do it on their own time and then we can discuss in the group.

Craig

Hendrik Boom

unread,
Apr 21, 2016, 1:35:59 PM4/21/16
to type-theory...@googlegroups.com
Some of those become easy once you understand the basics, which are
* dependent type theory itself,
* the Curry-Howard isomorphism.

And a bit of constructivism won't hurt either.

How did I become a constructivist? I posted a note on this a while ago:
http://topoi.pooq.com/hendrik/howconstr.html

Perhaps a useful first goal is to understand these basics.

Should I write another note? I'd be surprised if someone hasn't
already posted a better one than I could come up with quickly.

-- hendrik


Hendrik Boom

unread,
Apr 21, 2016, 1:38:20 PM4/21/16
to type-theory...@googlegroups.com
On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 03:38:57PM +0000, Craig Stuntz wrote:
> I'm enjoying PFPL when I can make time, but I got some good advice
> from Darryl McAdams:
>
> http://purelytheoretical.com/sywtltt.html
>
> In a nutshell, watch all of Frank Pfenning and then Bob Harper's 2012 OPLSS
> lectures first. I'm slowly doing that.
>
> One advantage of this format is people can do it on their own time and then
> we can discuss in the group.

If 'on their own time' is the main issue, we could discuss on this
mailing list. No need to synchronise time zones all around the world.

-- hendrik
> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/type-theory-study-group/CAGxhk2FUGPYWMVQnhB6LM9Rp3Cm7hc7AsKYuQoXXJ_Sfp9yb9g%40mail.gmail.com.

Cole Brown

unread,
Apr 21, 2016, 5:42:56 PM4/21/16
to Type Theory Study Group
wanted to chime in as well--i was quite interested in the beginning, but wound up doing a lot of self study. i agree w/ jon's perspective regarding "next up", and would like to further contribute an idea:

my outsider's perspective on academia is that professors are "indexes" into a world of academic research and material, much of which is too specific to have been compiled into a definitive volume. one of the things that can make these fields so maddeningly difficult to enter is the lack of a publicly available index... the list of works jon gave is a great starter for such an index.

i think it would be fantastic if, in addition to the group study sessions, we were to create and maintain a decent wiki (even something as simple as a github repo w/ some markdown documents, papers, etc) in which we could help create both an index and a guide to be used by folks curious about exploring type theory. it's a weird example to throw out, but i've found nLab to be quite helpful when studying category theory, etc. honestly, if taken w/ the goal of helping organize and index existing works, i think we could make something much more usable!

thoughts?

cole
> > > To post to this group, send email to
> > > type-theory...@googlegroups.com.
> > > To view this discussion on the web visit
> > >
> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/type-theory-study-group/9cf0b013-47ba-49c7-b269-6aae1f1c13a2%40googlegroups.com
> > .
> > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Type Theory Study Group" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> > To post to this group, send email to
> > type-theory...@googlegroups.com.
> > To view this discussion on the web visit
> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/type-theory-study-group/1461252617.3930556.585625769.5CADD593%40webmail.messagingengine.com
> > .
> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> >
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Type Theory Study Group" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to type-theory-study-group+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

Hendrik Boom

unread,
Apr 21, 2016, 6:10:59 PM4/21/16
to Type Theory Study Group
On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 02:42:55PM -0700, Cole Brown wrote:
>
> my outsider's perspective on academia is that professors are "indexes" into
> a world of academic research and material, much of which is too specific to
> have been compiled into a definitive volume. one of the things that can
> make these fields so maddeningly difficult to enter is the lack of a
> publicly available index... the list of works jon gave is a great starter
> for such an index.
>
> i think it would be fantastic if, in addition to the group study sessions,
> we were to create and maintain a decent wiki (even something as simple as a
> github repo w/ some markdown documents, papers, etc) in which we could help
> create both an index and a guide to be used by folks curious about
> exploring type theory. it's a weird example to throw out, but i've found
> nLab to be quite helpful when studying category theory, etc. honestly, if
> taken w/ the goal of helping organize and index existing works, i think we
> could make something much more usable!

Sounds good. But github probably won't do, because github's markdown
as far as I know doesn't do mathematical notation. Mathematics
requires an external program to be plugged in. I'd love to be proved
wrong, though.

Using github as a development repository with the actual web page
elsewhere probably would be OK.

Technical stuff on markup:

* markdown

The markdown implementation I'm currently using is omd, written in a
type-safe compiled language OCaml. It claims to be compatible with
markdown's, and it's *fast*.

* scribble

I'm currently toying with scribble (a racket sublanguage) for document
creation. I have no idea whether it'll be any better. But
technically, it's an alternate syntax for a real programming language,
and the syntax happens to be OK for text. And at any moment you can
preak out the the underlying programming language if yo want to do
something elaborate. So far I haven't had to, but I'm just starting to
experiment with it.

-- hendrik

Gershom B

unread,
Apr 24, 2016, 8:17:37 PM4/24/16
to Type Theory Study Group
As an observer to this list who hasn't participated, but who has some experience and advice to offer on running study-groups (though not ones via the internet) I want to second most of what Jon said here.

The important question to ask is: what purpose is served by a study group rather than self-study. And to me, the answer is not in the ability to cover a lot of material. Rather, it is in the focus that comes from going slowly over a text, with others, taking care to look at proofs you might have otherwise skipped over, questions that you might neglect to ask yourself, etc. 

When studying foundational stuff, the issue to me isn't about looking at all the clever stuff that can be built on it, but instead on seeing how much information and intuition you can glean just out of careful examination of the basics, and one of the  main advantages of a study group is that it forces you to slow down, that it forces people to pass around the responsibility of leading a discussion / teaching, which means a greater level of understanding than just learning for yourself, etc.

I don't have any stake in what people want out of this, or how they hope to get there. But my advice is just that the rewards of patient careful study, including of things that you think you know, but as interrogated by others who don't yet think they know it, are ultimately very worthwhile, but it takes patience to appreciate them, and the discipline to go slowly even when you think you "sort of" get it.

Cheers,
Gershom
Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages