Kahr PM9 reliability problem - what should I do?
John Derby
the range, I'm getting one to three jams per 100 rounds, and I have
several hundred rounds through it, using different ammo. I've been
careful not to limp wrist--I'm fairly strong, but it's true that I
don't use a full-on death grip. Some swear that I'm limp wristing it
(not from actually watching me), and they insist that I REALLY need to
put my shoulder into it. Some say try even more ammo--I've tried about
3 kinds so far, not reloads, all have about the same result. Some say
send it back to Kahr, but outside the warranty period. The bottom line
is that it jams for me, and I need more reliability because it's for
protection.I like the feel of the PM9 and will keep it if I can
discover it to be reliable. Before buying it, I tested a variety of
similar guns--I think the PM9 jammed once, the PM40 jammed every clip,
the Glocks didn't jam, and I don't remember the rest. But I only put
30-50 rounds through any of the guns I tested.
I'm wondering, first, what I might do with the PM9? Secondly, what
other conceal options might I consider if reliability is the main
criterion? I carry inside the waistband, and could probably get away
with slightly more size, but not much thicker, if I need to. I prefer
the feel of an automatic in crisis simulations.
Thanks for your help,
John
Kevin Craig
John Derby <NoSPAAMd...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I have a Kahr PM9, and it seems to be plagued with jamming issues. At
> the range, I'm getting one to three jams per 100 rounds, and I have
> several hundred rounds through it, using different ammo.
Three ammo brands isn't a lot of variety.
Kahr recommends at least 500 rounds for break in.
Also, define "jam". What exactly is happening? Failure to feed? To
eject? Stovepiping? Double feeding?
Kevin
Derek V.
2. Try it clean and lubed with Winchester FMJ white box. That's one
of the three kinds of ammo Kahr uses to test their guns.
3. Get someone else to shoot your pistol, preferably someone who has
successfully shot one of his own of similar size and caliber. If there
are no jams in the hands of another, then you'll either have to change
your firing grip (tough to do if you're an experienced shooter and
satisfied with your shooting performance).
Derek V.
John Derby
> Three ammo brands isn't a lot of variety.
That's true, although I don't think that's the problem since it does
the same thing. I suppose it could be, though.
> Kahr recommends at least 500 rounds for break in.
I haven't kept track, but somewhere around 700 rounds, I'm guessing
> Also, define "jam". <snip> Failure to feed?
That's the one. I did get one failure to eject, recently.
John Derby
> 1. Clean and lubricate (not just oil, but gun grease) the pistol.
Where would I put the grease to try and solve the problem? I've only
been using gun oil, in the usual spots, stripped and cleaned after
every use.
> 2. Try it clean and lubed with Winchester FMJ white box. That's one
> of the three kinds of ammo Kahr uses to test their guns.
That's what I mostly use, because it's dirt cheap.
> 3. Get someone else to shoot your pistol, preferably someone who has
> successfully shot one of his own of similar size and caliber. If there
> are no jams in the hands of another, then you'll either have to change
> your firing grip (tough to do if you're an experienced shooter and
> satisfied with your shooting performance).
Yeah, but I could *try* it to see if it solves my problem. Any way to
describe what I might do to "enhance" my grip, which is fairly
standard, except that my other hand's thumb does not go flat along my
index finger, because the PM 9 is so small, that this interferes with
the trigger finger, so I wrap around a bit more and press my thumb
against the poly base. I can't think of how I would add stability
without stiffening my arms with all my might, and I don't think I want
to do that. Or do I?
Jim Casey
> ... I can't think of how I would add stability without stiffening my
> arms with all my might, and I don't think I want to do that. Or do I?
No, you don't. If you just try to hold your arm rigid, it will probably
shake.
Try this: Assuming you're right-handed, push the bottom three fingers
of your right hand into the palm of your left hand, and pull back with
your left arm. Find a position with your elbows about three-quarter of
the way to fully extended where you have the best stability.
The main goal is to stiffen your wrists.
You can also try fully extending your right elbow. The two methods work
about the same for me.
Google "Weaver stance" for a couple of thousand opinions.
- Jim
Derek V.
rest (sandbag is good) while holding the gun down on the sandbag HARD.
Grease? Everywhere metal contacts metal. It doesn't have to drip off
the gun, just provide the barest coating/covering to keep metal from
touching uncoated metal while the gun cycles. After cleaning, grease:
1. The part of the barrel forward of the chamber. (or, put a grease
ring around the hole in the slide through which the barrel extends.)
2. The slide grooves which ride on and wrap around the steel inserts
of the frame.
(or grease the steel inserts in the frame.)
3. The bottom of the slide where it contacts the metal strip on the
top of the frame.
(or grease the metal strip).
4. The disconnector. (or the slide where it depresses the
disconnector)
5. The slide lock where it passes through the keyhole in the barrel.
(or grease the keyhole in the barrel.)
Donno about the PM9, but I just tore down my PM40, and it's got two
springs and two spring guides. The springs should have some grease
along their length, as should the parts of the spring guides which
contact recoil springs. Don't forget a drop of oil (not grease) for
the striker spring and guide. I put a dab of grease just ahead of the
ejection port in the slide where the barrel rides under the slide in
recoil. (this is better than greasing the part of the barrel which
locks into the ejection port.) In my gun, the innermost spring guide
is solid, and I grease only the outside of it. The outermost spring
guide is hollow, and I grease both inside and outside of it.
Derek V.
Jim Casey
> ... what I might do to "enhance" my grip, which is fairly standard,
> except that my other hand's thumb does not go flat along my index
> finger, because the PM 9 is so small, that this interferes with the
> trigger finger, so I wrap around a bit more and press my thumb
> against the poly base....
I missed this on the first pass. Your left thumb should wrap around
the bottom knuckle of your right thumb. This is an important factor for
stabilizing your wrists.
The finger alignment should be left index finger wrapped around right
middle finger on the grips, and so on down. The left little finger is
pretty much useless for a small pistol.
I tried to find an illustration of this on the web, but I couldn't. :^(
- Jim
John Derby
> John Derby wrote:
> I missed this on the first pass. Your left thumb should wrap around
> the bottom knuckle of your right thumb. This is an important factor for
> stabilizing your wrists.
>
> The finger alignment should be left index finger wrapped around right
> middle finger on the grips, and so on down. The left little finger is
> pretty much useless for a small pistol.
That's what I do. Perhaps a secondary question is direction of pull. In
other words, is my non-trigger hand (in my case, I shoot left handed,
so it's my right hand that I'm asking about) be pulling back or down to
stablize?
Another thing I can't quite ascertain, is where the butt of my hand
goes. It's hard not to show you in person, but I would say it seems
there are two choices, one with the back of the gun pressing hardest
against my thumb bone, the other pressing against the other side of my
palm (don't know the medical term), the part that's below the ring
finger. What I mean is, the palm has two boney parts close to the
wrist, one on the thumb side, the other on the other side. Now, to
clarify, I don't mean that the gun would be higher or lower, but it has
to do with the orientation of how far the trigger hand is wrapped
around the gun, and this implicates where it rests on the palm. Does
that make sense? With a gun in hand it probably does. I tend to have it
touching the palm part below my ring finger, making the pistol and
extention of my arm. This seems most stable, but I don't know if that's
most stable for the wrist, which is what I need to have firmer. In
fact, I think it's not. If I wrap my hand further around the gun, then
my other hand seems to do more by way of preventing the shooting hand
from having vertical flexibility, which is the thing I want to stop.
However, this does not feel natural, plus it puts my trigger finger way
too far into the trigger housing. As for the web pics, I know what you
mean. the ones I can find are all obviously not meant to be precise.
Jim Casey
> ... is my non-trigger hand (in my case, I shoot left handed,
> so it's my right hand that I'm asking about) be pulling back or down to
> stablize?
Yes. The arm holding the pistol should be pushing forward and the other
hand (the "weak" hand) should be pulling back. At least that's what
most successful pistoleros say they do.
> Another thing I can't quite ascertain, is where the butt of my hand
> goes....
This kind of thing is hard to describe in words. Get a copy of the U.S.
Army Marksmanship Unit Pistol Marksmanship Training Guide:
http://web.mit.edu/birge/Public/books/US-Army-Pistol-Marksmanship-Training-Guide.pdf.
It has about four pages on grip alone.
Here's how I do it: Point your arm straight at the target with the
fingers extended, like you were going to poke a hole in the target.
Make a horizontal semicircle with your thumb. Use your weak hand to
place the backstrap of the pistol in the web between your thumb and
index finger. Then wrap your fingers around the grip without disturbing
the orientation of the pistol.
You may have to bend your index finger outward to put the pad of your
first phalanx bone on the trigger, especially on such a small pistol --
which I have never shot, BTW.
I have a feeling for your description that you are bending your wrist.
That is not recommended. You want the force of recoil to go straight
back into your arm, not torque your wrist (to the left in your case).
Besides grip, there's a world of recommendations about stance,
breathing, and pace. I easily fall into the trap of trying to get off
shots rapidly, and my accuracy goes to hell after the second or third shot.
Can you go to a shooting competition and watch some good shooters?
- Jim
Jim Casey
> ... Some say send it back to Kahr, but outside the warranty
> period....
Are you sure? While sitting on hold, I'm doing some research. Kahr
currently has a five year warranty.
Another thing you can do is get someone to record on video when you
shoot. You'll be able to see if your wrist is yielding too much.
- Jim