More to consider in the health care debate.
DoubtingThomas
Interesting article here on the 5 myths of health care:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/21/AR2009082101778.html
"The key difference is that foreign health insurance plans exist only to pay
people's medical bills, not to make a profit. The United States is the only
developed country that lets insurance companies profit from basic health
coverage. "
Gentlemen and Gentle Ladies light your (blow) torches.
The Daring Dufas
I don't know who to believe. I do know that I don't trust
government control of it.
TDD
Slim
So who gives a rat's ass what "these other countries" do?
We are not those countries......we are the United States.....a capitalist free market nation.
I've spent extensive time in Britain and Europe. Trust me.....you do not want socialized
medicine in the USA.
On Sat, 12 Sep 2009 21:19:51 -0500, "DoubtingThomas" <ne...@invalid.invalid.net> wrote:
> The United States is the only
>developed country that lets insurance companies profit from basic health
>coverage. "
"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people�s money."
Long Ranger
--
Every individual or national degeneration is immediately revealed by a
directly proportional degradation in language.
Joseph-Marie de Maistre
"DoubtingThomas" <ne...@invalid.invalid.net> wrote in message
news:h8hkrk$gog$1...@aioe.org...
Right, and profit invites competition. Competition is what keeps the quality
up, and the price down.
DoubtingThomas
"Slim" <m...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:bcroa5ljfk8m9p031...@4ax.com...
:
:
: On Sat, 12 Sep 2009 21:19:51 -0500, "DoubtingThomas"
<ne...@invalid.invalid.net> wrote:
:
: > The United States is the only
: >developed country that lets insurance companies profit from basic health
: >coverage. "
:
: "The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other
people's money."
:
: So who gives a rat's ass what "these other countries" do?
: We are not those countries......we are the United States.....a capitalist
free market nation.
: I've spent extensive time in Britain and Europe. Trust me.....you do not
want socialized
: medicine in the USA.
According to the article and other sources we have much of what other
countries do in one way or another but they seem to do it better.
It would seem wise to cull out the misrepresentations and half truths,
identify what works best from all sources and concentrate on making it work
here.
Good example at one time the power system in the Tennessee valley was owned
by a private industry. Then came the TVA, prices dropped like a rock, with
industry, business and jobs resulting. (fortunate in that much of the power
produced was available to make aluminum for aircraft and the fuel for the
Manhattan project during WWII )
Barges carry bulk cargo for mills per ton mile. What do you think the
Mississippi and other waterways would look like if left to private industry?
Gov Good Hair was pushing a 50 year franchise to out of country companies on
Texas Toll roads. You think ENRON was bad ???
DoubtingThomas
"The Daring Dufas" <the-dari...@stinky.net> wrote in message
news:h8hpln$6bl$3...@news.eternal-september.org...
And you trust insurance clerks (some of who are in India and other parts of
SEA) bureaucrats or CEOs more. Think GM, Wall
Street, BANKS , Cable/Companies, Oil and power companies?
The key is to read what's propose and research claims and counter claims.
Then to speak up and let you congress critters know how you feel.
Based on what I've seen in the news and in some cases their personal
statements I doubt if many of the those in Washington have read the various
legislative proposals or the other ideas that are floating around. (and that
a non partisan inditement --)
Some where, on one of the news groups I saw a statement that is very true.
You get what you INSPECT not what you EXPECT.
Stephan Rothstein
> "Slim" <m...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:bcroa5ljfk8m9p031...@4ax.com...
> :
>
> :
> : On Sat, 12 Sep 2009 21:19:51 -0500, "DoubtingThomas"
> <ne...@invalid.invalid.net> wrote:
> :
> : > The United States is the only
> : >developed country that lets insurance companies profit from basic health
> : >coverage. "
> :
> : "The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other
> people's money."
>
> :
> : So who gives a rat's ass what "these other countries" do?
> : We are not those countries......we are the United States.....a capitalist
> free market nation.
> : I've spent extensive time in Britain and Europe. Trust me.....you do not
> want socialized
> : medicine in the USA.
>
> According to the article and other sources we have much of what other
> countries do in one way or another but they seem to do it better.
That all depends on how you define "better". It also misses the fact
that we have some programs that we should never have had, and they are
now using the existence of those programs to justify more like them.
They used the VA med system as one example of how a government run
medical system could work. I agree. Look at all of the problems it has
and see how many of its patients are satisfied.
>
> It would seem wise to cull out the misrepresentations and half truths,
> identify what works best from all sources and concentrate on making it work
> here.
That is one option. But it all depends on how you define what works best
and what the goals are. We seem to be having a difference in basic
definitions and expectations of the system. I, for one, would never
expect any system to provide identical quality health care to everyone.
It will never happen and there is no reason to try for it.
>
> Good example at one time the power system in the Tennessee valley was owned
> by a private industry. Then came the TVA, prices dropped like a rock, with
> industry, business and jobs resulting. (fortunate in that much of the power
> produced was available to make aluminum for aircraft and the fuel for the
> Manhattan project during WWII )
Better examine your history again. The TVA project was started to help
recover from the depression. Some of the area had power supplied from
private companies, some from small local public utilities, and large
parts of the rural area had no electrical power at all. As a method of
helping electrify rural areas and helping parts of the US recover from
the depression, it worked. That is not saying it is the only way, or
even the best way, just that it was one way that worked. I have a
problem with the basic concept of the TVA as, in FDR's words, " a
private company cloaked with government authority". Government control
of private companies is a significant part of the definition of fascism.
>
> Barges carry bulk cargo for mills per ton mile. What do you think the
> Mississippi and other waterways would look like if left to private industry?
I think it would still look like a big long muddy river, with just as
many barges and boats on it. I don't think government control of
waterways for transportation has done much of anything, good or bad.
>
> Gov Good Hair was pushing a 50 year franchise to out of country companies on
> Texas Toll roads. You think ENRON was bad ???
And with all of these examples of government control of private industry
or government choosing certain suppliers, why would anyone want the
government to run anything that their life depends on, like a health
care system?
Steve Rothstein
slide
>
> That all depends on how you define "better". It also misses the fact
> that we have some programs that we should never have had, and they are
> now using the existence of those programs to justify more like them.
>
> They used the VA med system as one example of how a government run
> medical system could work. I agree. Look at all of the problems it has
> and see how many of its patients are satisfied.
>
>>
This is a good example of liberalism being a mental disease. Here are
two of many programs which aren't working well but the liberals claim
it's because we don't have enough of them.
It's similar to the war on poverty. Spending whatever per year isn't
reducing poverty -- but why? Because we don't spend enough. If this
proposal by the Obamantion passes, it won't work and the reason given is
because of the continued existence of some element of private enterprise.
After that's been liquidated, the liberals will be out of excuses but it
will be too late.
Anyolmouse
If the article was in the Times instead of the Post I would be more
likely to believe what it says. <g>
My own experience with the Amarillo VA hospital was not good. When
Hillary C. was pushing socialized medicine in 1993, I was asked by
another veteran to use the VA as there was a fear that the VA system was
going to be used as a general indigent hospital as part of the greater
socialized scheme.
I was on heart medication when I started going to the VA and was
stabilized with NO problems. The VA promptly changed my medication to a
cheaper one. NOT just a generic version as one wasn't available then,
but a completely different medicine. My ankles swelled up to the size of
softballs and I started to have shortness of breath and chest pain. This
was done by the primary care physician per his consultation with the
overworked cardiologist who I had never met yet. When I complained to
the primary care doctor he talked to the heart doctor again and some
tests were ordered. First a resting ekg that was inconclusive and then a
thallium stress test.
When I went to pick up my renewal prescription I was denied the
medicines. I was told that the cardiologist had stopped them saying that
I really didn't need them. I went to the primary care doctor and
demanded to know what was going on. How could a doctor who I had never
seen stop my medicine without any consultation at all?
The primary care doctor arranged for me to pick up an emergency supply
of medicine and also got me an appointment with the cardiologist.
When I finally saw the cardiologist and was able to ask him why my
prescriptions were stopped, he couldn't give me a satisfactory answer.
When I asked him what the results of the stress test were he said I
wasn't given a stress test. I then showed him my VA card with the
sticker on the back that showed that I did indeed have the stress test.
He became real flustered and started pawing through my charts and
scattering them all over the floor. He never found where he read the
stress test because he couldn't, as he did not do it.
I was put back on my medicines but promptly went back to my civilian
private physician and cardiologist. I left the VA system as fast as my
feet would carry me.
I had health insurance provided by my employer and the VA charged MORE
for my visits to the primary care doctor than my civilian cardiologist
charged at the time.
There is other evidence that makes me doubt the validity of the article.
If Canada's system is so good, why do Canadians use US hospitals for
treatment they either can't get at all, or, can't get in time to do them
any good?
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/07/06/canadian.health.care.system/index.html?eref=time_politics
When working in the medical x-ray business I met some doctors that left
Canada in order to practice in the US. NONE of them had anything good to
say about Canada's health system. I was told of people needing heart
caths to diagnose the extent of their heart attacks that couldn't get
scheduled for 6 months. Some Canadians re-mortgaged their homes so they
could get what they needed here in the US.
A recent article stated that Canada's system is in trouble financially
as it was in 1992
http://www.heritage.org/Research/SocialSecurity/bg883.cfm
Most of you on this group will agree that gun control equals people
control. IMHO, health control also equals people control.
--
We have met the enemy and he is us-- Pogo
Anyolmouse
The Daring Dufas
Me and roommate were just discussing government scams or
more correctly, people scamming government programs. The
EBT card has taken the place of food stamps which had
become a second currency in The US with people buying
dope and booze with food stamps. Now the miscreants buy
food with their EBT card and trade the food for dope and
booze. Would it not be cheaper to just pass out dope and
booze to the dregs and......... Oh Hell, they would wind
up trading the free government dope and booze for some
other item like......food?
TDD
The Daring Dufas
Congress passes laws and tells state governments "You will enact
these measures or we will cut off federal highway funds." When
congress is able to pass laws and tell the PEOPLE "You will do
as we say or we will cut off your medical care.", the slide into
tyranny will be complete.
TDD
HeyBub
>
> According to the article and other sources we have much of what other
> countries do in one way or another but they seem to do it better.
>
> It would seem wise to cull out the misrepresentations and half truths,
> identify what works best from all sources and concentrate on making
> it work here.
>
Good point about the "half truths." Consider "life expectancy," often touted
as evidence of foreign health care being superior to that in the United
States. First, that's an improper metric. People in the U.S. die from things
that don't involve health care (such as automobile accidents and
gang-related homicides) that do not happen as much in Germany or Sierra
Leone. If someone plows into a bridge support at 100 mph, he's dead long
before the health care system can get involved.
Consider also premature births. A severely premature baby is treated with
Herculean efforts in the U.S. Very often the child expires. We count the
child as having lived for a day or a week. In France, the same infant is
tabulated as "still born" and never enters the statistic of "live
expectancy."
A better, though not perfect, metric for measuring the worth of a
health-care system is "What are the chances of someone living five or more
years after being treated/diagnosed with 'X'?"
Heart failure
U.S. - 96%
Canada - 86%
Britan - 56%(!)
All Cancers
U.S. - 92%
Canada - 80%
Britan - 77%
and so on.
The amount of money spent per capita on health care is also a flawed method
of measurement. We, in the U.S., spend more on health care BECAUSE WE CAN!
We spend more on socks, toasters, artificial flowers, windshield wipers,
potato chips, and almost everything else per capita - BECAUSE WE CAN.
There are more MRI manchines in my town than there are in Canada and Great
Britan. Combined!
DoubtingThomas
"Stephan Rothstein" <sr
: > : > The United States is the only developed country that lets insurance
companies profit from basic health coverage. "
: > :
: > : "The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other
: > people's money."
: >
: > :
: > : So who gives a rat's ass what "these other countries" do?
: > : We are not those countries......we are the United States.....a
capitalist free market nation.
: > : I've spent extensive time in Britain and Europe. Trust me.....you do
not want socialized medicine in the USA.
: >
: > According to the article and other sources we have much of what other
: > countries do in one way or another but they seem to do it better.
:
: That all depends on how you define "better". It also misses the fact
: that we have some programs that we should never have had, and they are
: now using the existence of those programs to justify more like them.
FAA was formed as the CAA a long time back. Mistakes were made in the
inception and mistakes were made along the way. Changes resulted most for
the better some with unforeseen consequences. Changes have and will be
made.
How far do you think we'd have come without the FAA/CAA?
Regardless what we have is clearly not working. If we don't something
things will only get worse. The performance trend has been down hill and
the cost trend has been up hill for a long time. What makes you think
repeating the same mistakes will result in a different outcome.
They used the VA med system as one example of how a government run
: medical system could work. I agree. Look at all of the problems it has
: and see how many of its patients are satisfied.
The operative word is 'could'. The point is look at what has been done
elsewhere, modify that process to fit our needs and "get'er done"
:
: >
: > It would seem wise to cull out the misrepresentations and half truths,
: > identify what works best from all sources and concentrate on making it
work here.
:
: That is one option. But it all depends on how you define what works best
: and what the goals are. We seem to be having a difference in basic
: definitions and expectations of the system. I, for one, would never
: expect any system to provide identical quality health care to everyone.
: It will never happen and there is no reason to try for it.
( I would offer that that world view was held my many in 1776 -- and we won)
That's what statistics call standard deviation. The process can be codified
and works for the mass but has no real way to predict the outcome for a
given individual. You can have processes in place to address failures and
mistakes. Our current system has no real effective mechanism to do that.
In fact it has legal loop holes that preclude accountability. (See ERISA)
:
: >
: > Good example at one time the power system in the Tennessee valley was
owned by a private industry. Then came the TVA, prices dropped like a rock,
with industry, business and jobs resulting. (fortunate in that much of the
power produced was available to make aluminum for aircraft and the fuel for
the Manhattan project during WWII )
:
: Better examine your history again. The TVA project was started to help
: recover from the depression. Some of the area had power supplied from
: private companies, some from small local public utilities, and large
: parts of the rural area had no electrical power at all. As a method of
: helping electrify rural areas and helping parts of the US recover from
: the depression, it worked. That is not saying it is the only way, or
: even the best way, just that it was one way that worked. I have a
: problem with the basic concept of the TVA as, in FDR's words, " a
: private company cloaked with government authority". Government control
: of private companies is a significant part of the definition of fascism.
I see no major difference in either of our descriptions. Area had no or
limited electrical service, private industry could not or would not provide
the service and what was provides was high cost. (the process is called
cherry picking). Good current parallel is the broadband industry not
providing serves but using legislated and regulatory process to block
implementation. In NC one of the major broadband provider (TWC) failed to
install broadband in an area. In response the locals did the deed
themselves. Instead of being aggressive in covering the remaining areas TWC
is pushing legislation that will prevent a repeat.
http://www.techjournalsouth.com/news/article.html?item_id=7334
Another is the push by the industry to downgrade what is defined as
broadband in the USA. Japan has much much better system that is both
efficient and economical. USA is what 19th in the industrial world for
broadband and way up on the cost curve.
Near 20 years ago the Cable company for Carrollton TX failed to complete
upgrades that they had contracted to do. System was a mess. Local
engineers (recall Richardson and Irving is or was the HQ base for most of
the big manufactures in the telecom industry) did the engineering and
project planning on a competitive municipal system. Took less than a week
after the cable company found out for them to start the upgrades. I found it
amusing when the cable company engineer (a high level technician to be
blunt) tried to claim the citizen volunteer engineers didn't know what they
were talking about.
The point is ACCOUNTABILITY. Which is a very obvious lack in our current
medical system
:
: >
: > Barges carry bulk cargo for mills per ton mile. What do you think the
: > Mississippi and other waterways would look like if left to private
industry?
:
: I think it would still look like a big long muddy river, with just as
: many barges and boats on it. I don't think government control of
: waterways for transportation has done much of anything, good or bad.
It would look like a muddy river but without the barges and boats as it
would not be navigable. Not to mention significant increase in flood
problems.
: > Gov Good Hair was pushing a 50 year franchise to out of country
companies on Texas Toll roads. You think ENRON was bad ???
:
: And with all of these examples of government control of private industry
: or government choosing certain suppliers, why would anyone want the
: government to run anything that their life depends on, like a health
: care system?
ENRON was a case of a lapse of government regulation. (can you spell
lobbyist?) As was the derivative problem on Wall Street (Thank you Phil
Gramm).
Congress had many and broad opportunities to address some of the root
problem in the early 90's The majority of members wanted to remove the
ERISA exemptions enjoyed by the insurance industry. Our own Dick Amery had
has chief of staff contact the insurance lobby and call them to a meeting to
discuss blocking the reform. The memo mention the industry had best plan to
'get off their wallets' (a direct quote).
Long story short no reform. had their been we would be in much less trouble
today. And Dick and company went home with a significant political
contribution.
GWB as gov of Texas opposed the prompt pay provision change in Texas
insurance law. (required insurance companies to pay within 90 days) he
only got on the band wagon when he saw it was going to pass regardless of
his opposition. Just how far do you think you or I or any other business
would get if we tried to get away with not paying until long after 90 days?
I would expect to be sitting in the dark, with no heat or water.
How can you say an industry with that kind of power is remotely competitive?
I would not go so far as to claim it was a cartel but walks and quacks like
one so it must be dammed close.
DoubtingThomas
Saw a sign on the wall once that read "If he's gonna get you ... He's gonna
get you". Which is to say you can't stop all fraud be it in the welfare
line or the hauls (sic) of congress.
No matter how hard you try you'll not stop all theft. Different merchants
have different levels of concern and spend accordingly.
Coal yard can stand the loss of a few pounds of carbon. Jeweler gets bent
with it's a few grams of carbon. Regardless all will lose some ... it's the
cost of doing business be it selling carbon or living life.
DoubtingThomas
� 2008 all rights reserved; no portion of this post may be used anywhere
else or archived without written permission
"HeyBub" <hey...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote in message
news:sc6dnebcFK_qhjDX...@earthlink.com...
: Britain. Combined!
The number of MRI in your town suggest that the system providers have an
economic incentive to push utilization. Recall to a man with a hammer all
problems are nails.
I know a small town in western NC that had two good perhaps excellent
hospitals that complemented each other well. They would up in a we're
bigger then you are facilities race. Utilization is now ~ 30 to 40% and
both are about to go under due to the cost fo the debt alone. Even so there
is a third group that have filed for licenses/permits to build another.
Since they all will lose money apparently their business plan is to make it
up in volume. The volume is to sand bag the patients and the payment system
or go to the legislature with the song 'we're essential to the health of the
community' for subsidies. No need to mention there is an area not 100 miles
distant that has no hospital not even a critical care facility.
How many personal bankruptcies are the result of medical problems (think
bills) in the USA? Reports range from 50 to 75% How many bankruptcies are
the result of medical bills in Canada, England, Germany or the rest of the
industrialized world?
There are many metrics and all point to the fact that what we are doing is
NOT WORKING.
The only thing that will solve this problem is for WeThePeople to read,
research and learn as much as we can about what's proposed, what's been done
in the past, what works elsewhere and more what doesn't work. Then make
sure our reps in Washington and elsewhere hear from us.
I would like to see a system that addresses the major problems that is
designed to be flexible in it's on going operation. Good example one of my
grand kids needed surgery on her toe. Insurance would only authorize the
operation on either the left side or the right side of her toe (the details
don't matter) at an additional discomfort and risk for her in the anesthetic
alone. No need to mention double cost for copay, deductible etc. Everyone
including the insurance clerks recognized the problem but were powerless to
do anything within the system. End result the child was scheduled for two
surgeries one at 11:30 the other at 12:30 the key was that child would still
be under but would be rolled out of surgery to recovery for 5 min then
returned to sugary. Still double deductable etc but at least the child did
not undergo two separate surgeries.
.
Wayne
>
> "The Daring Dufas" <the-dari...@stinky.net> wrote in message
> news:h8hpln$6bl$3...@news.eternal-september.org...
> : DoubtingThomas wrote:
> : > Interesting article here on the 5 myths of health care:
> : >
> : >
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/21/AR2009082101778.html
> : >
> : > "The key difference is that foreign health insurance plans exist only
> to
> pay people's medical bills, not to make a profit. The United States is
> the
> only developed country that lets insurance companies profit from basic
> health
> : > coverage. "
> : >
> : > Gentlemen and Gentle Ladies light your (blow) torches.
> : >
> :
> : I don't know who to believe. I do know that I don't trust
> : government control of it.
>
>
> And you trust insurance clerks (some of who are in India and other parts
> of
> SEA) bureaucrats or CEOs more. Think GM, Wall
> Street, BANKS , Cable/Companies, Oil and power companies?
>
DoubtingThomas
"Long Ranger" <worp...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:h8htqt$52l$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
:
:
: --
http://comics.com/adam_zyglis/
And you really think we have completion in the insurance industry?
especially with medical insurance?
In addition to competition what about accountability. Those in Washington
(Dick Amery, Tom Delay, Phil Graham to name a few Texas) blocked ERISA
reform and are now working for the industry.
Try to interest the AG or DA in most any state in insurance fraud
perpetrated by the insurance industry. You might find it interesting to
know that many states the insurance industry funds investigative teams
working out of the AG/DAs office. Not surprising that these investigative
only investigate cases submitted by the industry.
So where is the competition and what happened to the quality?
What's worse being uninsured or finding out you're underinsured when you
need it most? It's a dilemma that happens to many.
Stephan Rothstein
>
> And you really think we have completion in the insurance industry?
> especially with medical insurance?
yes, we do have competition in the insurance industry, including the
health insurance. Or do you think companies like Blue Cross and Aetna
are actually not competing for every sale they get?
>
> In addition to competition what about accountability. Those in Washington
> (Dick Amery, Tom Delay, Phil Graham to name a few Texas) blocked ERISA
> reform and are now working for the industry.
Accountability to who and for what? There is full accountability in the
companies to their directors and shareholders. They have to account for
any questionable decisions the managers make to their chain of command.
As for accountability to me, the only thing they have to be accountable
for is the decisions on my coverage. If I disagree, I go to my employer
(if I got it through him) or the courts (if I got it on my own) and the
contract gets enforced. In addition, I get to choose who issues the next
policy to me if I got it on my own, and my employer gets to choose who
he contracts with. If there are enough problems, we go to another
company. If enough customers go to different companies, the one company
will change it way of doing business or go out of business.
>
> Try to interest the AG or DA in most any state in insurance fraud
> perpetrated by the insurance industry. You might find it interesting to
> know that many states the insurance industry funds investigative teams
> working out of the AG/DAs office. Not surprising that these investigative
> only investigate cases submitted by the industry.
I don't know about your state, but Texas has a large insurance fraud
team working out of the AG's office. The third largest state police
department in the state (over 300 active officers). They are funded by
tax dollars. They handle any claims that are sent to them and deemed
worth of investigation (as in enough of a crime and enough solvability
to prove a case). In addition, our laws provide for the DA in any
district to file a criminal case if any element of the case occurred in
their district. So, if the insurance company engages in fraud (which I
have not yet seen any proof of, but will stipulate might occur), I can
go to several different agencies to resolve the issue.
Steve Rothstein
slide
> "Long Ranger" <worp...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>
> And you really think we have completion in the insurance industry?
> especially with medical insurance?
>
I who have worked for a health insurance company can say with authority
that there is a lot of competition but only within the very strict
guidelines put down by governments. My company (a BC/BS) would have
LOVED to offer much more creative packages but we were prevented from
doing so by state regulations.
Remove all state regs and federal regs about interstate sales and watch
the cost come WAY down as you get to choose your policies from a
cafeteria plan.
Benj
> This is a good example of liberalism being a mental disease. Here are
> two of many programs which aren't working well but the liberals claim
> it's because we don't have enough of them.
>
> It's similar to the war on poverty. Spending whatever per year isn't
> reducing poverty -- but why? Because we don't spend enough. If this
> proposal by the Obamantion passes, it won't work and the reason given is
> because of the continued existence of some element of private enterprise.
>
> After that's been liquidated, the liberals will be out of excuses but it
> will be too late.
Yep. And I'd point out it's always the same kind of argument over "gun
control" as well. Liberals claim that banning guns will eliminate
crime. So certain liberal regions ban guns. Crime not only doesn't go
away it INCREASES. Liberals then claim that the problem is that
neighboring regions haven't banned guns yet. Of course once guns are
banned everywhere, it will be too late. Plus ca change...
Max Tindell
<sroth...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>DoubtingThomas wrote:
>>
>> And you really think we have completion in the insurance industry?
>> especially with medical insurance?
>
>yes, we do have competition in the insurance industry, including the
>health insurance. Or do you think companies like Blue Cross and Aetna
>are actually not competing for every sale they get?
BC/BS of Texas is a non-profit organization.
Stephan Rothstein
Yes, but it is still competition.
Steve Rothstein
Benj
wrote:
> > Most of you on this group will agree that gun control equals people
> > control. IMHO, health control also equals people control.
>
> Congress passes laws and tells state governments "You will enact
> these measures or we will cut off federal highway funds." When
> congress is able to pass laws and tell the PEOPLE "You will do
> as we say or we will cut off your medical care.", the slide into
> tyranny will be complete.
Absolutely. Facts not lost on all the Democrats pushing for a "new"
system that will be the "envy of the world". You know, the kind of
system that worked out so well in the (former) Soviet Union. Anyone
who thinks that the Washington Post is going to do anything but
provide propaganda for a Soviet system needs to take a quick look at
their long-term positions on gun (people) control. Look at how the
threat of cutting off welfare and other free payments to people who
aren't even citizens has generated to votes to pull government back
into Dem control. How much nicer once they get the assured vote of
anyone with a disease requiring payments. And there will be no escape
even if you've got the money to pay your own medical bills. "Insurance
Avoidance" will be a crime punishable by fines and jail just like it
is now for car insurance.
Max Tindell
<sroth...@earthlink.net> wrote:
*************
Yes, I know. Of all the plans available under the FEHBP in Texas,
BC/BS is the largest. I just would like someone to 'splain to me how
that works. Other than paying benefits, salaries, advertising, et
al, what do they do with all the money their premiums bring in.
Stephan Rothstein
I have no idea. I assume they pocket it in ways that get around the
non-profit status, such as salaries and bonuses.
of course, I could be wrong. After all, part of the Obama plan was to
allow non-profits in health insurance, so we must be wrong about BC-BS
and others like it. Surely he could not be proposing something we
already have.
Steve Rothstein