Twitter buying Tweetie

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Tim Haines

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Apr 9, 2010, 9:41:44 PM4/9/10
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Before anyone rants, let me say congratulations Loren, and congratulations Twitter.  Awesome!  Totally awesome!

:-)

Tim.

Abraham Williams

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Apr 9, 2010, 9:43:22 PM4/9/10
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There is also an official blackberry app coming. http://mobile.blog.twitter.com/2010/04/official-twitter-for-blackberry-app-now.html
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Dewald Pretorius

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Apr 9, 2010, 10:18:37 PM4/9/10
to Twitter Development Talk
It's great for Loren.

But, there's a problem, and I hope I'm not the only seeing it.

Twitter has just kicked all the other developers of Twitter iPhone
(and iPad) clients in the teeth. Big time. Now suddenly their products
compete with a free product that carries the Twitter brand name, and
that has potentially millions of dollars at its disposal for further
development.

It's really like they're saying, "We picked the winner. Thanks for
everything you've done in the past, but now, screw you."

This would not have been such a huge deal if the developer ecosystem
did not play such a huge role in propelling Twitter to where it is
today.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Eric Woodward

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Apr 9, 2010, 10:23:42 PM4/9/10
to Twitter Development Talk
I am also happy for Loren, he deserves it based purely on the quality
of his product. I would like some clarification on the intended future
of Tweetie for OS X. The plans for the iPhone and iPad have been made
very very clear: stay away. Please clarify the plans for OS X.

But at this point I don't really expect a response, but I need to
ask.

--ejw

Eric Woodward
Email: e...@nambu.com

Tim Haines

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Apr 9, 2010, 10:25:40 PM4/9/10
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Dewald,

I'm surprised that you failed to mention that Twitter can also advertise the heck out of it on Twitter.com and via tweets etc - millions for further development - and very significant marketing resources available too.

I disagree with your sentiment though.  Twitter's free to build or buy whatever they want to.  As a third party developer it's one of the risks you take on when you start building on someone else's platform.  If you don't acknowledge that, you're being naive.

Sure it's going to suck if they do something to harm Favstar, but I'm aware it's a risk - and I'm going to try and keep innovating to keep Favstar useful for users regardless.

Tim.

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funkatron

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Apr 9, 2010, 10:26:54 PM4/9/10
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Twitter did this to BB clients too, today.

You think this is the last platform they'll do an Official Client on?

Take a look at the OS X music playback app market to see the future of
Twitter clients.

Here's the shirt for the Chirp keynote: http://spaz.spreadshirt.com/

Have fun in SF next week, everybody!

--
Ed Finkler
http://funkatron.com
@funkatron
AIM: funka7ron / ICQ: 3922133 / XMPP:funk...@gmail.com

Zac Bowling

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Apr 9, 2010, 10:29:34 PM4/9/10
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Congrats,

As a twitter user I'm intrigued. As a twitter developer I'm not hoping that you are really close to a statement to reassure us all its ok and maintaining an even playing field. Although renaming it Tweetie to Twitter for iPhone is a hurtful (being "THE" twitter client relegates the others to second instantly in what was an even playing field).

So as a Tweetie user, please add sign up API so my mom and dad can get on Twitter from directly on the iPhone. Please add iPad support. Please also make a purchase of Windows based company to even out Tweetie for Mac venture so Twitter doesn't seem Mac happy, and please buy a Android company to even that side out too.

See you all at Chrip! I'm sure this will be a lively debate so: INB4 insanity

Zac Bowling



Isaiah

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Apr 9, 2010, 10:33:55 PM4/9/10
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Loren, congrats man.  I think the best man won.  Hard work and dedication to perfection paid off in spades.  You deserve the accolades (and the $$$). 

Oh and everyone else?  Thanks for playing.  I'll catch you all next week on the Facebook forums.

Anyone have the odds on who Twitter will pick as the winners on the other platforms? 

Isaiah

Cameron Kaiser

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Apr 9, 2010, 10:44:28 PM4/9/10
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> I am also happy for Loren, he deserves it based purely on the quality
> of his product. I would like some clarification on the intended future
> of Tweetie for OS X. The plans for the iPhone and iPad have been made
> very very clear: stay away. Please clarify the plans for OS X.

Let's just say that I think Nambu is now worth more as the next Sea World
whale's name than an OS X Twitter client.

Fortunately, I inhabit the command line and Mac OS 9 markets, so I'm
pretty sure I'm safe.

--
------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * cka...@floodgap.com
-- I use my C128 because I am an ornery, stubborn, retro grouch. -- Bob Masse -

M. Edward (Ed) Borasky

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Apr 9, 2010, 10:58:53 PM4/9/10
to twitter-deve...@googlegroups.com, Cameron Kaiser
On 04/09/2010 07:44 PM, Cameron Kaiser wrote:
>> I am also happy for Loren, he deserves it based purely on the quality
>> of his product. I would like some clarification on the intended future
>> of Tweetie for OS X. The plans for the iPhone and iPad have been made
>> very very clear: stay away. Please clarify the plans for OS X.
>
> Let's just say that I think Nambu is now worth more as the next Sea World
> whale's name than an OS X Twitter client.
>
> Fortunately, I inhabit the command line and Mac OS 9 markets, so I'm
> pretty sure I'm safe.
>

Uh ... "market" implies that people will actually *pay* for something. I
haven't found that to be the case for command line tools. ;-) Don't know
about OS 9, though - last time I was "asked" to use one of those (summer
2004), I politely declined and did everything on my dual-booted Windows
XP / Linux laptop. ;-)

But that does raise an interesting question - I'm not overly impressed
with any of the open-source GUI Twitter clients, and I won't run an AIR
application on my Linux desktop - AIR is a resource hog (and closed). So
I stick with web-based clients like the Twitter home page, HootSuite or
CoTweet. Is there any energy out there for a *really good* open source
Twitter GUI client that would run on Linux, Mac and Windows?

And the congratulations belong to *both* Loren and Twitter! ;-)

--
M. Edward (Ed) Borasky
borasky-research.net/ @znmeb

"A mathematician is a device for turning coffee into theorems." ~ Paul Erdős

Cameron Kaiser

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Apr 9, 2010, 11:04:30 PM4/9/10
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> Uh ... "market" implies that people will actually *pay* for something. I
> haven't found that to be the case for command line tools. ;-) Don't know
> about OS 9, though - last time I was "asked" to use one of those (summer
> 2004), I politely declined and did everything on my dual-booted Windows
> XP / Linux laptop. ;-)

Thanks so much for clarifying. :-P

--
------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * cka...@floodgap.com

-- TODAY'S DUMB TRUE HEADLINE: Plane Too Close to Ground, Crash Probe Told ----

Josh Roesslein

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Apr 9, 2010, 11:10:09 PM4/9/10
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First I would like to also congratulate Tweetie on a job well done. Best of luck!

Will this be the end all to clients as we know it? It maybe, but like all markets
there is that inevitable peak. Sooner or later the winners will be picked and the rest discarded.
That is a hard and painful fact we have to live with in life. I still encourage other client
developers to keep going strong. Loyal users will stay with you as long as they are kept happy.
Innovation is gold and if you build a great product you have not much to worry about.

I personally will probably not be touching the client area, at least not from a business stance.
Sure I might do one as a hobby project, but it is time to pack up and move to greener pastures.
There is still much unexplored areas we can still cover with the API and Twitter has been good so far
at giving us more and more room to grow our applications.

Keep an open mind and stay optimistic about the future.

Josh

funkatron

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Apr 9, 2010, 11:22:38 PM4/9/10
to Twitter Development Talk

On Apr 9, 10:58 pm, "M. Edward (Ed) Borasky" <zn...@comcast.net>
wrote:


> But that does raise an interesting question - I'm not overly impressed
> with any of the open-source GUI Twitter clients, and I won't run an AIR
> application on my Linux desktop - AIR is a resource hog (and closed). So
> I stick with web-based clients like the Twitter home page, HootSuite or
> CoTweet. Is there any energy out there for a *really good* open source
> Twitter GUI client that would run on Linux, Mac and Windows?

Define "energy." Spaz has been out there and FOSS since mid 2007.
Moving off AIR and doing lots of other good things have been in my
plans for a long time, but open source in no way means people want to
help you. No one will be even close to your own interest level.

FWIW, I'm leaning towards deploying Spaz as a hosted FOSS web app --
that is, you could use my server, or DL and host it yourself. It would
focus on providing a good experience for touch-based clients
particularly. When that will happen is pretty much dictated by who
else takes interest.

Integrating well with StatusNet's server software seems pretty
appealing right now.

Abraham Williams

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Apr 9, 2010, 11:27:01 PM4/9/10
to twitter-development-talk
Congrats Loren.

As for Tweetie for Mac. I would like to see it open sourced: http://act.ly/1w1

Abraham

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M. Edward (Ed) Borasky

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Apr 9, 2010, 11:42:55 PM4/9/10
to twitter-deve...@googlegroups.com, funkatron
On 04/09/2010 08:22 PM, funkatron wrote:

> Define "energy." Spaz has been out there and FOSS since mid 2007.
> Moving off AIR and doing lots of other good things have been in my
> plans for a long time, but open source in no way means people want to
> help you. No one will be even close to your own interest level.

Open source depends on the fact that it is in the interest of major
corporations like IBM, Novell, Oracle, Google, Dell and others to
support it. I quite frankly don't know why some other large corporations
don't join the party - there are just so many wheels you can re-invent
before your bottom line goes to Hell in a hand-basket.

> FWIW, I'm leaning towards deploying Spaz as a hosted FOSS web app --
> that is, you could use my server, or DL and host it yourself. It would
> focus on providing a good experience for touch-based clients
> particularly. When that will happen is pretty much dictated by who
> else takes interest.

I should look at Spaz, I guess, although I'm dead-set against ever
installing AIR again. I loaded one of the AIR-based Twitter desktops - I
don't remember which one - and the process was brutal. The client itself
sucked too, so there was no reason to keep it or AIR.

I'm not sure I'd use a web-based client other than Twitter's at this
point. HootSuite and CoTweet are moving towards being marketing / CRM
add-ons to all the social networks. If that was what I was doing, I'd
simply use SugarCRM (another fine open-source corporate project) with
Twitter and Facebook plug-ins. ;-)

>
> Integrating well with StatusNet's server software seems pretty
> appealing right now.

Yeah, I keep meaning to look at StatusNet, although I'm not sure when
I'll find the time. They've got a huge wall to climb.

--
M. Edward (Ed) Borasky

borasky-research.net @znmeb

funkatron

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Apr 9, 2010, 11:50:01 PM4/9/10
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StatusNet is in an interesting position. They can't, and I don't think
have to, compete directly with Twitter. Offering both SAAS and self-
hosted opportunities is compelling, and they have a pretty strong dev
community. They already have Twitter and Facebook two-way bridges
built in, which means you can run your own thing and still interact
with both of those services.

I'm interested in the idea of complementing StatusNet in a similar
fashion on the client side, as a true FOSS tool, extensible via a
plugin architecture.

--
Ed Finkler
http://funkatron.com
@funkatron
AIM: funka7ron / ICQ: 3922133 / XMPP:funk...@gmail.com


On Apr 9, 11:42 pm, "M. Edward (Ed) Borasky" <zn...@comcast.net>
wrote:

Raffi Krikorian

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Apr 10, 2010, 12:20:33 AM4/10/10
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the way that i usually explain twitter.com (the web site) is that it embodies one particular experience of "twitter".  twitter.com needs to implement almost every feature that twitter builds, and needs to implement it in a way that is easy to use for the lowest common denominator of user.  this now also holds for the iphone.  so, one possible answer for how to innovate and do potentially interesting/lucrative/creative things is to simply not target the lowest common denominator user anymore.  find a particular need, and not the generic need, and blow it out of the water.

what i am most interested in seeing is apps that break out of the mold and do things differently.  ever since i joined the twitter platform, our team has built APIs that directly mirror the twitter.com experience -- 3rd party developers have taken those, and mimicked the twitter.com experience.  for example, countless apps simply fetch timelines from the API and just render them.  can we start to do more creative things?

i don't have any great potentials off the top of my head (its midnight where i am now, and i flew in on a red-eye last night), but here are a few potential ones.  i'm sure more creative application developers can come up with more.  i want to see applications for people that:
  • don't have time to sit and watch twitter 24/7/365.  while i love to scan through my timeline, frankly, that's a lot of content.  can you summarize it for me?  can you do something better than chronological sort?
  • want to understand what's going on around them.  how do i discover people talking about the place i currently am?  how do i know this restaurant is good?  this involves user discovery, place discovery, content analysis, etc.
  • want to see what people are talking about a particular tv show, news article, or any piece of live-real-world content in real time.  how can twitter be a "second/third/fourth screen" to the world?
perhaps the OS X music playback app market is a poor example?  sure itunes is a dominant app, but last.fm, spotify, etc., all exist and are doing things that itunes can't do.
--
Raffi Krikorian
Twitter Platform Team
http://twitter.com/raffi

Justyn

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Apr 10, 2010, 12:41:18 AM4/10/10
to Twitter Development Talk
Congrats to Loren and the Twitter Corp Dev/Mobile teams!

Yes, the desktop app will follow. Then likely a Windows version. I've
got no vested interest in being right or wrong, but it makes sense,
and it's been inevitable for quite a while. Ever since the hint of an
ad model. Organic eyeballs mean less money out the door to other
publishers/apps/etc. Good business means Twitter will want as many
eyeballs as possible on their own products.

I feel for any developers who are impacted, I hope they pivot
successfully and prosper from here. I hope I'm never in the same
situation. That said, this should not be surprising to anyone.

At the very least, the strategy is more apparent now and everyone can
act accordingly.

funkatron

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Apr 10, 2010, 12:59:27 AM4/10/10
to Twitter Development Talk
It is, of course, possible to find niches here, and we can of course
come up with ideas that could work. I certainly am not debating that.

But you have to admit that this is a big, big bomb to drop in the
development community; bigger than anything since *maybe* the Summize
acquisition, and the whole shebang was a lot smaller then. And
Summize was doing work that most developers couldn't do, because of
the technical issues involved.

And I might also suggest that choice and diversity is generally a good
thing, even in areas you personally find boring. But perhaps not in
the financial sense for Twitter, which is why stuff like this happens.

It's not really just what was done, but *how* it was done that was
most disappointing. And I bet you didn't have anything to do with
that, so not much to say there.

Actually, I suspect iTunes is a great analogy, even with the other
apps you suggest. iTunes did destroy any competition in the primary
music playback app market, and I believe (anecdotally though) that it
dominates the lowest common denominator market -- also the largest
part of the market. I'll be happy to buy you a drink when Spotify and
and last.fm combined hit 50% of iTunes usage. They are the niche apps
along the lines you suggest we should be making.

--
Ed Finkler
http://funkatron.com
@funkatron
AIM: funka7ron / ICQ: 3922133 / XMPP:funk...@gmail.com

On Apr 10, 12:20 am, Raffi Krikorian <ra...@twitter.com> wrote:
> the way that i usually explain twitter.com (the web site) is that it
> embodies one particular experience of "twitter".  twitter.com needs to
> implement almost every feature that twitter builds, and needs to implement

> it in a way that is easy to use for the* lowest common denominator of user*.


>  this now also holds for the iphone.  so, one possible answer for how to
> innovate and do potentially interesting/lucrative/creative things is to
> simply not target the lowest common denominator user anymore.  find a
> particular need, and not the generic need, and blow it out of the water.
>
> what i am most interested in seeing is apps that break out of the mold and
> do things differently.  ever since i joined the twitter platform, our team
> has built APIs that directly mirror the twitter.com experience -- 3rd party
> developers have taken those, and mimicked the twitter.com experience.  for
> example, countless apps simply fetch timelines from the API and just render
> them.  can we start to do more creative things?
>
> i don't have any great potentials off the top of my head (its midnight where
> i am now, and i flew in on a red-eye last night), but here are a few
> potential ones.  i'm sure more creative application developers can come up
> with more.  i want to see applications for people that:
>

>    - don't have time to sit and watch twitter 24/7/365.  while i love to


>    scan through my timeline, frankly, that's a lot of content.  can you
>    summarize it for me?  can you do something better than chronological sort?

>    - want to understand what's going on around them.  how do i discover


>    people talking about the place i currently am?  how do i know this
>    restaurant is good?  this involves user discovery, place discovery, content
>    analysis, etc.

>    - want to see what people are talking about a particular tv show, news


>    article, or any piece of live-real-world content in real time.  how can
>    twitter be a "second/third/fourth screen" to the world?
>
> perhaps the OS X music playback app market is a poor example?  sure itunes
> is a dominant app, but last.fm, spotify, etc., all exist and are doing
> things that itunes can't do.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 7:26 PM, funkatron <funkat...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Twitter did this to BB clients too, today.
>
> > You think this is the last platform they'll do an Official Client on?
>
> > Take a look at the OS X music playback app market to see the future of
> > Twitter clients.
>
> > Here's the shirt for the Chirp keynote:http://spaz.spreadshirt.com/
>
> > Have fun in SF next week, everybody!
>
> > --
> > Ed Finkler
> >http://funkatron.com
> > @funkatron

> > AIM: funka7ron / ICQ: 3922133 / XMPP:funkat...@gmail.com<XMPP%3Afunkat...@gmail.com>

Rich

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Apr 10, 2010, 1:22:49 AM4/10/10
to Twitter Development Talk
As a user and fellow developer I'm thrilled for Loren and what he's
achieved...

As a Twitter API and iPhone developer I'm shocked and feel like it's a
kick in the teeth to us all.

On Apr 10, 5:59 am, funkatron <funkat...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It is, of course, possible to find niches here, and we can of course
> come up with ideas that could work. I certainly am not debating that.
>
> But you have to admit that this is a big, big bomb to drop in the
> development community; bigger than anything since *maybe* the Summize
> acquisition, and the whole shebang was a lot smaller then.  And
> Summize was doing work that most developers couldn't do, because of
> the technical issues involved.
>
> And I might also suggest that choice and diversity is generally a good
> thing, even in areas you personally find boring. But perhaps not in
> the financial sense for Twitter, which is why stuff like this happens.
>
> It's not really just what was done, but *how* it was done that was
> most disappointing. And I bet you didn't have anything to do with
> that, so not much to say there.
>
> Actually, I suspect iTunes is a great analogy, even with the other
> apps you suggest. iTunes did destroy any competition in the primary
> music playback app market, and I believe (anecdotally though) that it
> dominates the lowest common denominator market -- also the largest
> part of the market. I'll be happy to buy you a drink when Spotify and
> and last.fm combined hit 50% of iTunes usage. They are the niche apps
> along the lines you suggest we should be making.
>
> --

> Ed Finklerhttp://funkatron.com

M. Edward (Ed) Borasky

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Apr 10, 2010, 1:15:42 AM4/10/10
to twitter-deve...@googlegroups.com, Raffi Krikorian
On 04/09/2010 09:20 PM, Raffi Krikorian wrote:
> - don't have time to sit and watch twitter 24/7/365. while i love to

> scan through my timeline, frankly, that's a lot of content. can you
> summarize it for me? can you do something better than chronological sort?

Yeah ... I think a fair number of people want something like that. If
Twitter would like to build it, grab me at Chirp and I'll give you some
pointers to the relevant NLP literature. It's not a small enough project
for a single-man shop like myself.

> - want to understand what's going on around them. how do i discover


> people talking about the place i currently am? how do i know this
> restaurant is good? this involves user discovery, place discovery, content
> analysis, etc.

I think that ship has sailed, and the liner companies are Google, Yahoo,
Yelp, Foursquare, Gowalla, Facebook, etc. Twitter's way late to that
party. I'm not saying there aren't opportunities in location-based
services - in fact, I think Twitter's cautious approach to a subject
that others seem to be gung-ho about is the strategically correct one.
But Twitter had a really cool location demo at SxSW and just about
everybody ignored it and focused on the Foursquare / Gowalla smackdown.
And everyone is waiting for Facebook to drop the other shoe.

Then again, I haven't heard about @anywhere yet. ;-)

> - want to see what people are talking about a particular tv show, news


> article, or any piece of live-real-world content in real time. how can
> twitter be a "second/third/fourth screen" to the world?

Now *that* one I like! Twitter as the world's real-time newspaper,
complete with weather, sports, traffic, celebrity gossip, letters to the
editor, etc. I think you could wipe "USA Today" off the map (pun intended).

janole

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Apr 10, 2010, 6:55:49 AM4/10/10
to Twitter Development Talk
Hi Dewald,

> But, there's a problem, and I hope I'm not the only seeing it.

you're not the only one seeing it ;-)

I guess the fact that Twitter clients played a major role in Twitter's
"success" is making this move so special. On the other hand, I think
it was inevitable, wasn't it? Twitter needs to make money some time
soon - and with so much traffic coming in via "uncontrollable"
clients ...

Anyway, I'm happy for Loren and Tweetie. Looks like a fair game on the
iPhone platform at least - where any of the top clients could have won
the "jackpot" :-)

@janole / #Gravity

--
Jan Ole Suhr
su...@mobileways.de

Dewald Pretorius

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Apr 10, 2010, 8:23:28 AM4/10/10
to Twitter Development Talk
Twitter has now displayed a distinctive predatorial stance towards the
developer ecosystem.

The ecosystem is encouraged to innovate, to expend time, effort, and
money to come up with new ideas and build services. When that
particular space proves to be successful and potentially rewarding,
the predator pounces and screws everyone but the one picked as the
winner.

In the long term, the acquisition of Tweetie was a penny-wise pound-
foolish move, and here's why:

1) From now on, everyone will know, or at least wonder, whether
encouragement and support for the ecosystem is genuine, or simply a
facade to cultivate the next space that Twitter can plunder.

2) Innovation is stifled, because to many it now is not worth their
effort, time, and money to develop services that stand a very good
chance of receiving a similar kick in the teeth.

3) In one single day, in one fell swoop, many developers have been
turned away from Twitter. Few people have the level of imagination
required to build new mouse traps, and fewer have the resources to
build sophisticated new mouse traps. You will never hear from these
developers who have been turned away. You will never know who they are
and how many there were. They've just disappeared in the mist.

You don't do this. You don't ride to success on the coattails and
efforts of others and then turn around and plunder them. It is wrong.

Twitter is not the first to do this, but it still does not make it
right.

PS. Sorry for the duplicate. I initially posted this to the incorrect
thread.

Dewald Pretorius

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Apr 10, 2010, 8:56:05 AM4/10/10
to Twitter Development Talk
Here's an interesting related thread on Twitter:
http://dld.bz/PGz

As well as this NY Times article:
http://dld.bz/PG5

where Evan Williams says, "Twitter will continue to buy or develop
apps and features it needs, even if third-party developers already
provide them."

Jesse Stay

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Apr 10, 2010, 11:44:59 AM4/10/10
to twitter-deve...@googlegroups.com
In support of what Raffi is saying, I think too many apps are "supports" for Twitter (some call it "filling holes").  I think the more beneficial, and long-term advantageous approach is instead to make Twitter a "support" for your application.  I hope this isn't seen as spam, but I wrote about this last night in where I suggest we re-evaluate what our "cores" are based on: http://staynalive.com/articles/2010/04/10/what-is-your-core/

The Twitter app ecosystem is far from dead, is still thriving - we just need to re-evaluate where our cores are based.  I think Twitter has drawn the line in the sand on what their core is. It's time we adjust ours so we're using Twitter as a complement, rather than the other way around.  Just my $.02 - see you at Chirp!

Jesse

Dewald Pretorius

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Apr 10, 2010, 12:02:06 PM4/10/10
to Twitter Development Talk
Jesse,

There is a lot of merit in your point of view with regards to one's
core.

But, what that also means is the death of the ecosystem as we know it.
The ecosystem as we know it used to develop "for" Twitter, enhancing
the Twitter offering.

What you're proposing is a radical change, where one does not develop
"for" Twitter to enhance their service, but where one simply exploits
their service to enhance your own core (it's a very good strategy, by
the way).

Coming back to the acquisition, if this strategy of Twitter runs its
course, innovation of Twitter is going to be greatly stifled. Most
developers will stop developing new things that enhance the Twitter
service.

Apart from the initial 140-character service, Twitter has not yet
innovated anything. Everything they have, subsequent to the initial
base service, has been things others have innovated for them, or ideas
they got from somewhere else. And now they've stifled or at least
discouraged those innovators. Oh, look, is that a hole in Twitter's
foot?

On Apr 10, 12:44 pm, Jesse Stay <jesses...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In support of what Raffi is saying, I think too many apps are "supports" for
> Twitter (some call it "filling holes").  I think the more beneficial, and
> long-term advantageous approach is instead to make Twitter a "support" for
> your application.  I hope this isn't seen as spam, but I wrote about this
> last night in where I suggest we re-evaluate what our "cores" are based on:http://staynalive.com/articles/2010/04/10/what-is-your-core/
>
> The Twitter app ecosystem is far from dead, is still thriving - we just need
> to re-evaluate where our cores are based.  I think Twitter has drawn the
> line in the sand on what their core is. It's time we adjust ours so we're
> using Twitter as a complement, rather than the other way around.  Just my
> $.02 - see you at Chirp!
>
> Jesse
>
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 10:20 PM, Raffi Krikorian <ra...@twitter.com> wrote:
> > the way that i usually explain twitter.com (the web site) is that it
> > embodies one particular experience of "twitter".  twitter.com needs to
> > implement almost every feature that twitter builds, and needs to implement

> > it in a way that is easy to use for the* lowest common denominator of user

> > *.  this now also holds for the iphone.  so, one possible answer for how


> > to innovate and do potentially interesting/lucrative/creative things is to
> > simply not target the lowest common denominator user anymore.  find a
> > particular need, and not the generic need, and blow it out of the water.
>
> > what i am most interested in seeing is apps that break out of the mold and
> > do things differently.  ever since i joined the twitter platform, our team
> > has built APIs that directly mirror the twitter.com experience -- 3rd

> > party developers have taken those, and mimicked the twitter.comexperience.  for example, countless apps simply fetch timelines from the API


> > and just render them.  can we start to do more creative things?
>
> > i don't have any great potentials off the top of my head (its midnight
> > where i am now, and i flew in on a red-eye last night), but here are a few
> > potential ones.  i'm sure more creative application developers can come up
> > with more.  i want to see applications for people that:
>

> >    - don't have time to sit and watch twitter 24/7/365.  while i love to


> >    scan through my timeline, frankly, that's a lot of content.  can you
> >    summarize it for me?  can you do something better than chronological sort?

> >    - want to understand what's going on around them.  how do i discover


> >    people talking about the place i currently am?  how do i know this
> >    restaurant is good?  this involves user discovery, place discovery, content
> >    analysis, etc.

> >    - want to see what people are talking about a particular tv show, news


> >    article, or any piece of live-real-world content in real time.  how can
> >    twitter be a "second/third/fourth screen" to the world?
>
> >  perhaps the OS X music playback app market is a poor example?  sure
> > itunes is a dominant app, but last.fm, spotify, etc., all exist and are
> > doing things that itunes can't do.
>

> > On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 7:26 PM, funkatron <funkat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> Twitter did this to BB clients too, today.
>
> >> You think this is the last platform they'll do an Official Client on?
>
> >> Take a look at the OS X music playback app market to see the future of
> >> Twitter clients.
>
> >> Here's the shirt for the Chirp keynote:http://spaz.spreadshirt.com/
>
> >> Have fun in SF next week, everybody!
>
> >> --
> >> Ed Finkler
> >>http://funkatron.com
> >> @funkatron

> >> AIM: funka7ron / ICQ: 3922133 / XMPP:funkat...@gmail.com<XMPP%3Afunkat...@gmail.com>


>
> >> On Apr 9, 10:18 pm, Dewald Pretorius <dpr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > It's great for Loren.
>
> >> > But, there's a problem, and I hope I'm not the only seeing it.
>
> >> > Twitter has just kicked all the other developers of Twitter iPhone
> >> > (and iPad) clients in the teeth. Big time. Now suddenly their products
> >> > compete with a free product that carries the Twitter brand name, and
> >> > that has potentially millions of dollars at its disposal for further
> >> > development.
>
> >> > It's really like they're saying, "We picked the winner. Thanks for
> >> > everything you've done in the past, but now, screw you."
>
> >> > This would not have been such a huge deal if the developer ecosystem
> >> > did not play such a huge role in propelling Twitter to where it is
> >> > today.
>
> >> > Please correct me if I'm wrong.
>
> >> > On Apr 9, 10:41 pm, Tim Haines <tmhai...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> > > Before anyone rants, let me say congratulations Loren, and
> >> congratulations
> >> > > Twitter.  Awesome!  Totally awesome!
>
> >> > > :-)
>
> >> > > Tim.
>
> > --
> > Raffi Krikorian
> > Twitter Platform Team

> >http://twitter.com/raffi- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Chad Etzel

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Apr 10, 2010, 12:02:30 PM4/10/10
to twitter-deve...@googlegroups.com, Twitter Development Talk
On Apr 10, 2010, at 5:23, Dewald Pretorius <dpr...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Twitter has now displayed a distinctive predatorial stance towards the
> developer ecosystem.

Whoa now.

If by "predatorial" you mean "makes strategic acquisitions in line
with their business goals" then sure. See also: Google, Facebook,
Apple, Microsoft, IBM, Cisco, and countless others who are equally
"preditorial." Their ecosystems just happen to be broader at this point.

Welcome to Capitalism and Corporate America.

All that has happened is the bar for competition/innovation has been
significantly raised. Sure it will weed-out lesser developers, but it
will be a net positive for the end users (according to theory).

-Chad

Zhami

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Apr 10, 2010, 12:21:17 PM4/10/10
to Twitter Development Talk
On Apr 10, 11:44 am, Jesse Stay <jesses...@gmail.com> wrote:
<snip>

> I think the more beneficial, and long-term advantageous approach
> is instead to make Twitter a "support" for your application.

Spot On!!  

Dewald Pretorius

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Apr 10, 2010, 1:01:18 PM4/10/10
to Twitter Development Talk
Chad,

That's what I meant by predatorial.

All the past rethoric around how appreciative Twitter was of the
developer ecosystem, and how they valued the developer ecosystem, has
taken on a brand-new tone and color today.

> > To unsubscribe, reply using "remove me" as the subject.- Hide quoted text -

Nigel Legg

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Apr 10, 2010, 12:49:48 PM4/10/10
to twitter-deve...@googlegroups.com
Surely all twitter developers are getting their success on the coattails of Twitter, rather than twitter getting success on the coattails of the developers?
If you as a user, as a supplier to users, cannot find something that tweetie doesn't do then maybe you haven't got your ear to the ground of what twitter users want to see.  My aim is to carry on with what I'm doing, and [hopefully] do it well before twitter can do it; if twitter then want to come knocking, that's up to them; if they want to replicate my service, that's up to them; hopefully I'll have enough users to survive.
To me, this just ups the ante, and makes the environment just a little bit more edgy and competitive.  Which is great, if you don't see the people you're competing with.  Not sure how I'd feel if I was going to #chirp.

Dewald Pretorius

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Apr 10, 2010, 1:24:35 PM4/10/10
to Twitter Development Talk
Nigel,

Other Twitter iPhone clients are now kaput. You cannot compete with
the official Twitter iPhone client, which is given away free of
charge. There are quite a few "valued" developers who are having a
very ruined day.

Clients like TweetDeck and Seesmic should still be okay, because they
are more general social media clients.

One would be very disrespectful of the value of one's own time, if one
now starts developing something that's exclusively a Twitter service.

Please read what Jesse wrote. It is an extremely smart strategy. One
such definition of "your core" might be "multi social services XYZ,"
which would describe the "core" of TweetDeck and Seesmic.

Chad Etzel

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Apr 10, 2010, 1:28:00 PM4/10/10
to twitter-deve...@googlegroups.com
On Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 9:49 AM, Nigel Legg <nigel...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Surely all twitter developers are getting their success on the coattails of
> Twitter, rather than twitter getting success on the coattails of the
> developers?

This is a good point (is applies in my case, anyway). Had it not been
for my hobby-ist desire to hack around on the Twitter API, I would not
have a lot of the relationships I have today (whether it be with users
and new friends in my local town or across the internet with other
developers). By fostering those connections over the last few years I
have been able to do things I would not have otherwise been able to
do, and I would probably still be a cube-monkey instead of a founder
of my own company (which is also a platform, so I'm taking notes).

So, there are other benefits to playing in this sandbox other than to
strike it rich with a Twitter app or become internet famous. Other
opportunities arise from relationships you create with this diverse
developer world.

Of course, being acquired by Twitter doesn't hurt your resume, either.

-Chad

Allan Hoving

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Apr 10, 2010, 1:29:09 PM4/10/10
to twitter-deve...@googlegroups.com
If anyone would like to help withe the development of http://www.thefrequency.tv -- which integrates a focused Twitter search result feed but "adds value above the social layer" -- I would appreciate it. The Pulitzer Center is using the site currently.
Allan Hoving

Nigel Legg

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Apr 10, 2010, 1:32:05 PM4/10/10
to twitter-deve...@googlegroups.com
Dewalt, surely it's a bit early to say they are kaput? As far as I can see, all twitter clients have their merits, and people tend to stick with the one that does what they want it to do in the way they want it to do it.  I find it odd that, even though twitter has been directly competing with twitter clients through it's website for as long as the API has been around, the fact of twitter buying out a client means clients are dead.  Personally, I think you have over reacted to this.

Nigel Legg

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Apr 10, 2010, 1:33:28 PM4/10/10
to twitter-deve...@googlegroups.com
Chad - agreed! 

Jesse Stay

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Apr 10, 2010, 2:36:56 PM4/10/10