Sarah Silverman Calls Out 'Jewface' In Hollywood's Casting Of Women's Roles

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Steve Timko

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Oct 6, 2021, 1:08:56 AM10/6/21
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Tom Wolper

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Oct 6, 2021, 10:29:27 AM10/6/21
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I read an opinion piece about this, using the same examples, at time.com last week. The first half of the article was predictable, about cross-casting and representation. The second half became more interesting as it questioned the authenticity of female Jewish stories when Jewish women were excluded. The counterexample the writer offered was Broad City where Jewish women not only played the lead roles, they wrote the series and had control over the stories that were told.

Silverman is piggybacking off that article, using the same examples, which will amplify the story. On the other hand, she wants to make it more inflammatory and less thoughtful.

Steve Timko

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Oct 7, 2021, 1:05:01 AM10/7/21
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I don't quite feel the passion about this today that I did yesterday. I know you're all on the edge of your seats waiting for my comments.
Clearly, there can be problems casting the wrong people in roles. Like Zoe Saldana for Nina Simone. Simone felt she was treated differently because of her especially black skin. Saldana was lighter-skinned and attractive. Simone called her look her "essential blackness" and you don't get that with Saldana.
On the other hand, there was some actual criticism of having Chris Pratt, who is not Italian, play the Italian caricature of Super Mario. No one is really best suited to play a cartoon character.
I knew Joan Rivers was Jewish but she didn't wear it like so many Jewish comics. She seemed more strongly urban than Jewish.  Also, Jews have had many positive reforestations on screen. 
But I think that the comment, "Write Yiddish, Hire Britsh" raises a point. Jewish humor was so wrapped up in American humor that Jewish people are not recognized or credited. So maybe Silverman has a point there. Hire Jewish actors to cure that problem. 

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PGage

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Oct 7, 2021, 11:06:39 AM10/7/21
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I think Tom makes the main point that there is a relevant discussion to be had here, but it easily regresses into progressive caricature when it abandons nuance and flexibility.

I think the most problematic part of Silverman’s argument is the use of the term “Jewface” (not sure if that was part of the original Time article Tom refers to). The problem with Blackface is not primarily that famous white actors got roles denied Black actors. Blackface was explicitly part of a larger social process of stigmatizing, de-legitimizing and rationalizing a pervasive, violent antiBlack regime. The analogy is not to Rachel Brosnahan playing an attractive, intelligent and very likable Mrs Maisel, but maybe to something that could have existed in 1930s Germany with Aryans wearing stereotypical noses and clothing and enacting characters that would justify the attitudes and assumptions that led to the Holocaust. 

I don’t necessarily blame Silverman for this, the whole modern critique of blackface has tended to turn it into the “representation” issue that Silverman is writing about, which tends to minimize and trivialize what the problem with blackface was.



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Tom Wolper

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Oct 7, 2021, 1:22:09 PM10/7/21
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On Thu, Oct 7, 2021 at 11:06 AM PGage <pga...@gmail.com> wrote:
I think Tom makes the main point that there is a relevant discussion to be had here, but it easily regresses into progressive caricature when it abandons nuance and flexibility.

I think the most problematic part of Silverman’s argument is the use of the term “Jewface” (not sure if that was part of the original Time article Tom refers to). The problem with Blackface is not primarily that famous white actors got roles denied Black actors. Blackface was explicitly part of a larger social process of stigmatizing, de-legitimizing and rationalizing a pervasive, violent antiBlack regime. The analogy is not to Rachel Brosnahan playing an attractive, intelligent and very likable Mrs Maisel, but maybe to something that could have existed in 1930s Germany with Aryans wearing stereotypical noses and clothing and enacting characters that would justify the attitudes and assumptions that led to the Holocaust. 

I don’t necessarily blame Silverman for this, the whole modern critique of blackface has tended to turn it into the “representation” issue that Silverman is writing about, which tends to minimize and trivialize what the problem with blackface was.

Jewface wasn't in the Time article. That article was about being sensitive to having Jewish women being excluded from stories about Jewish women. I have a CD called Jewface, which is a collection of recordings of songs made during the first decades of the previous century. The songs are from vaudeville and are ethnic caricatures of Jewish characters. The songs are written and performed by Jewish men. It's very far from minstrelsy and the degradation of blackface.

Steve Timko

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Nov 17, 2021, 6:09:42 AM11/17/21
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PGage

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Nov 17, 2021, 8:55:25 AM11/17/21
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Bial’s take is thoughtful and nuanced (which I guess just means I agree with him). I’m not so sure about the author of the article, who cites as one of the more problematic appropriations Charlton Heston playing Moses, who A) may have been Hebrew, but was not Jewish in any recognizably modern or technical sense (that term would not have applied at the time) and B) with all due respect, probably has to be regarded as a fictional character.

More striking from that film is the casting of Edward G Robinson as Pharaoh, not so much for cultural appropriation, but hilarious miscasting. 

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Nov 17, 2021, 1:25:16 PM11/17/21
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The difference between Silverman’s take and the others is that hers took the form of a grievance and the others are more of an observation. In the NPR article she’s now walking back that grievance. It’s one thing to note that the roles of Jewish women are being played by non-Jewish actresses and another to claim it’s a failure of representation.

There will never be a way to prove or disprove the existence of a historical Moses. There are so few contemporary texts or archeological evidence available to provide anything meaningful. The Egyptian historical record doesn’t match the biblical account and that’s meaningful. But there could have been a tribal chieftain named Moses who led a Hebrew speaking people from Egypt to Canaan without the plagues and miracles.

Yup Brynner played pharaoh in The Ten Commandments. Edward G Robinson played Dothan who was comedy relief and a foil for Moses. I remember speculation that Robinson really wanted to be in the movie and the studio wanted to punish him for his left leaning views during the McCarthy era and that was the only role they would give him.

On Nov 17, 2021, at 8:55 AM, PGage <pga...@gmail.com> wrote:



PGage

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Nov 17, 2021, 10:28:25 PM11/17/21
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Thanks for the correction on EGR, I was less than 100% on the exact role he played but too tired to look it up at the time.  Only watched that film once, in a re-release at a drive-in with my grandparents. Also, completely agree with your point about Silverman.

There may be no way to prove the non existence of a historical Moses, but the burden of proof is on the claim that there was one, and that is a burden that can only be met through the eyes of faith. In any case, I don’t think think the absence of a modern Jewish actor playing Moses is in the top 100 most persuasive examples of the problematic aspects of Jewish appropriation in the movies, so it is odd that’s the one NPR decided to go with.

Kevin M.

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Dec 1, 2021, 10:27:55 AM12/1/21
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On Howie Mandel’s most recent episode of his podcast, Howie pointed out to Sarah Silverman that the actress she chose to portray her mother in an upcoming off-Broadway musical about her childhood isn’t Jewish. Silverman’s response was that it was ok because her mom “isn’t very Jewy.” 

I… I had to… I had to switch off the podcast after that. 

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Steve Timko

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Dec 1, 2021, 12:30:44 PM12/1/21
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She is still talking about it 



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Kevin M.

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Dec 1, 2021, 1:18:38 PM12/1/21
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On Wed, Dec 1, 2021 at 9:30 AM Steve Timko <steve...@gmail.com> wrote:
She is still talking about it 

I guess I should be used to the hypocrisy of Hollywood, but for her to be openly guilty of the very thing she campaigns against in a story about her own life takes brass ones. 

And, to be clear, Howie wasn’t trying to call her out… I think he knows the actress in question, or at least knows her enough to know she isn’t Jewish, and mentioned it only in passing. Her response… it literally put me off of her. I can’t be bothered to listen to or watch her again. Life is too short. 


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