Dogpile on Aaron Sorkin!

[Mark Jeffries]

That kick-him-while-he's-down thing the Internet does so well as Wonkette gleefully reports the critical pans for "The Newsroom," premiering tonight on HBO:

 

http://wonkette.com/476247/a-childrens-treasury-of-brutal-reviews-of-aaron-sorkins-terrible-new-show

 

And no Sorkin fan in the comments (as far as I can see) accusing the author of being an apologist for reality shows.

[PGage]

I have avoided reading anything about this show until I had a chance to watch it (which I just did this afternoon). I am a Sorkin Slut, so predictably I guess I like it well enough. I am trying my best to understand the apparent (I have only read the linked wonkette dumping, but it alludes to lots of others) thumbs down the media is giving the show - I guess part of it might be that they apparently have seen several episodes already, while I have only seen the one; maybe they get worse (S60 certainly did, after a fantastic pilot). Another part I suppose is that Sorkin's shows do come off with a tude of thinking of themselves as the best thing on TV; if they are only pretty good as opposed to historically great, everyone feels justified in taking their dump on it. With the caveat that I am basing this only on the pilot, I can not think of a show on broadcast television this last season that I liked better than Newsroom; I can think of several cable shows I liked better; I would rank this below Mad Men, Breaking Bad, Homeland, Justified and Game of Thrones, about even with Boss and The Killing (I know, but I thought Season 2 got a lot better), and better than that Wagon Train show about the building of the railroad (blocking its name right now).

The good news for me is that there was no actor in the cast that I just hated (as with Studio 60), and the main actors were all pretty good to great (Daniels and Mortimer especially). I thought Waterston was a little disappointing, and I am not sure about the young blond girl. Why did I have the vague idea that Jane Fonda was in this show (not that I am complaining about her absence)? Sorkin does have his weaknesses, and this show reflects some of them, but a show that is basically a cross between Sportsnight and West Wing is good enough to get a season pass from me.

But, I am going to go watch Broadcast News now...

[Michael]

The anti-Sorkin backlash might be traced to shallow folk hating his
smugness or smart people disliking his preachy side - or conservatives
perceiving liberal bias hidden beneath the ostensibly Republican
clothing of Daniels' character. But I thought it was bracing and
consistently involving. When he gets too preachy, I just ignore the
heavy-handedness and admire the eloquence. And I do love this cast
already. Still IMHO, it'll have to go quite a ways to be better than
"Sports Night."

On Jun 25, 3:13 pm, PGage <pga...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Jun 24, 2012 at 10:13 AM, Mark Jeffries <spotligh...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> > That kick-him-while-he's-down thing the Internet does so well as Wonkette
> > gleefully reports the critical pans for "The Newsroom," premiering tonight
> > on HBO:
>

> >http://wonkette.com/476247/a-childrens-treasury-of-brutal-reviews-of-...

[Kevin M.]

The entire episode is available on HBO's YouTube channel (embedding disabled)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1U4ZhFDFYvE


--
Kevin M. (RPCV)

[Mark Jeffries]

Or you can just watch this compilation of "Sorkinisms":

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S78RzZr3IwI

[Dave Sikula]

So if we don't like Sorkin's insufferable smugness, inability to write for character, working out of personal issues on screen, and general knocking down of weakly-created straw men, we're "shallow?" "The Newsroom" is the "This American Life" of HBO: "Oh, if only your thoughts and lives were as rich and interesting as mine ..."

I don't give a rat's ass about his politics or his personal views. All I ask for for good and intelligent writing; something that challenges me and provokes me into questioning and defending my beliefs and values. Sorkin does none of this. He's in love with the sound of his own voice and has about three original thoughts that he recycles over and over (that "Sorkinisms" video is a blessing).

I'll be back to hate watch, but will be floored if a) it doesn't drop a couple hundred thousand viewers the second week and b) it gets renewed.

Bah.

--Dave Sikula

[Jon Delfin]

I've read in several places (critics I trust) that the pilot is the
best of the four episodes sent for review, which means the next three
weeks will be trying. First thing they need to do is get rid of the
pompous theme music.

jd

> --
> TV or Not TV .... The Smartest (TV) People!
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "TV or Not TV" group.
> To post to this group, send email to tvor...@googlegroups.com
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> tvornottv-...@googlegroups.com
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/tvornottv?hl=en

[PGage]

On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 12:11 PM, Jon Delfin <jond...@gmail.com> wrote:

I've read in several places (critics I trust) that the pilot is the
best of the four episodes sent for review, which means the next three
weeks will be trying. First thing they need to do is get rid of the
pompous theme music.

On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 3:07 PM, Dave Sikula <dsi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> So if we don't like Sorkin's insufferable smugness, inability to write for
> character, working out of personal issues on screen, and general knocking
> down of weakly-created straw men, we're "shallow?" "The Newsroom" is the
> "This American Life" of HBO: "Oh, if only your thoughts and lives were as
> rich and interesting as mine ..."
>
> I don't give a rat's ass about his politics or his personal views. All I ask
> for for good and intelligent writing; something that challenges me and
> provokes me into questioning and defending my beliefs and values. Sorkin
> does none of this. He's in love with the sound of his own voice and has
> about three original thoughts that he recycles over and over (that
> "Sorkinisms" video is a blessing).

Jon Delfin: I have been assuming this must be true - at least it would be the only way to explain the horrible reviews based on just the pilot, which by any standard was not horrible.

Dave Sikula: Isn't at least half of what you describe in the mind of the viewer? I think a big part of Sorkin's problem is that his brand is smugness in the eyes of much of the public, and his logo is a little picture of Josh Lyman. But the so-called "Great Man" in The Newsroom is not actually portrayed as anything like great; his flaws are not minor or incidental, and his arguments, even at the end of the show, are not obviously correct. I don't think I can even grant the straw man criticism; the "Bad Thing" in this show is lazy, tabloid cable news; I did not see this as being misrepresented or distorted so as to make it easier to invalidate or refute; indeed if anything I thought Sorkin made cable news look better than it really is (what actual cable newscast is the equivalent of the one our Hero has been anchoring prior to the events of the pilot, and that is eventually blown up and replaced with the newer, more idealistic-yet-still-popular newscast the gang is going to try to work on? I think you would have to go back to pre-millenial Bernie Shaw at CNN to find anything like the "bad" newscast Sorkin's Newsroom is criticizing and trying to improve upon.

Sorkin is in love with his own voice, but that is a little like saying that the girl from Slumdog Millionaire is in love with her own looks (I use that example because of the tie-in with the actor on the show, and because I think she is one of the most beautiful women on the planet). It probably does result in too many scenes that are too heavy on speeches and too light on characters actually doing something - but then beautiful women probably have a few too many photographs of themselves in their apartments; it is a bit off-putting, but we usually are willing to cut them some slack.

If Sorkin really did have three original thoughts that he recycled through ever show that would still be three more original thoughts than we get in the vast majority of television programs. I think Sorkin gets held to a higher standard, and then pummeled when he is only better than most everyone else but not as good as he wants to be (or wants the audience to think he is). If the exact same pilot episode had aired on ABC and billed as being produced by that woman who does those doctors-in-heat shows, it would have been perceived as the smartest show on television. I am not saying that makes it the smartest show on television (it clearly is not); I am just saying that a lot of this is relative to perception. I would give the pilot a B+, and I think it is okay for Sorkin to put a B+ show on television, and I think that is better than most shows that are already on television. Now, if the next 3 episodes drop down to C- I will understand all the dumping.

I actually did watch Broadcast News yesterday, and what jumped out at me was that famous scene when the president of the News Division says to Jane: "It must be nice to always believe you know better, to always think you're the smartest person in the room." and Jane (God, how did I forget how fetching Holly Hunter was in that movie?) replies "No, its awful". Very Sorkin-esque, except we do get the feeling that Jane maybe nearly always is the smartest person in every room (except, how could such a smart girl ever pick Hurt over Brooks?), while we know Sorkin is only usually the smartest guy in any room otherwise filled with TV executives.

[Kevin M.]

Episode is also a free download on iTunes:

http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=536711673

> --
> TV or Not TV .... The Smartest (TV) People!
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "TV or Not TV" group.
> To post to this group, send email to tvor...@googlegroups.com
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> tvornottv-...@googlegroups.com
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/tvornottv?hl=en

--
Kevin M. (RPCV)

[Kevin M.]

On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 10:49 AM, Mark Jeffries <spotl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Or you can just watch this compilation of "Sorkinisms":
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S78RzZr3IwI

I've seen this floating around. Not sure what this clip proves. The
same can be done of CSI, Law & Order, House, Murder She Wrote,
Dragnet, I Love Lucy, Happy Days, and really every piece of episodic
television ever produced in the history of the medium. The line about
Aaron Sorkin right now is not that he's a bad writer but that he
repeats himself. So does every writer. You hear one Phil Collins song
or Bon Jovi song, you don't need to hear any others, unless you happen
to be a fan of the sound, in which case you want to hear them all. I'm
a fan of Phil Collins so I own all his music, and I detest the sound
of Bon Jovi so I only own the video he did wherein Cindy Crawford
wears very little except a Santa hat.

Was the story in the pilot poorly acted, directed, or messed up in any
way? No. Was it original? No. But all modern writing is derivative of
something else. What the editor of this not-too-cleverly-edited
YouTube clip failed to include are the many references Sorkin makes to
his pilfered source material. His repeated use of the phrase "I don't
always know what pleases you, Lord, but I think the fact I want to
please you pleases you" is paraphrased. Other quotes used over and
over are from Camelot and Lion In Winter. Sorkin cites these in his
work and wants people to hear them and be inspired by them.

The biggest criticism I hear about Sorkin is that he didn't reinvent
the wheel... again. Well, who the f*ck has? I don't know how many
people watched the low-rated "Big Apple," but fans of "Deadwood" (as
series I loved) might be shocked to learn much of the dialogue from
the period western was almost word for word from the NYC based
detective drama. One of my favorite movies is "Heat" with DeNiro and
Pacino, but watch the TV series "Crime Story" and you'll hear every
word and every scene and every idea (with the exception being Pacino's
adlibbed "great ass" moment) come from the mouths of Dennis Farina and
the others on that TV show.

The other argument is that he is preachy. Yes he is. And? "Star Trek"
wasn't preachy? "Twilight Zone" wasn't preachy? Most of the popular
shows are simple morality tales featuring those moments when the music
ramps up and a lead character lays down some harsh truths on somebody
else. Why? Because the viewing public is comprised of the American
people, and as each day passes the citizenry proves it needs to be hit
over the head to drive a point home. Some like the reassurance that
comes from knowing we're on the right side of the proverbial sermon.
Others like that even an idea we disagree with can be laid out in
clear prose. Repetition is a concept that dates back to elementary
school -- it is proven to work. It isn't that Sorkin thinks he's the
smartest kid in the class; it is that Sorkin wants people to strive to
be the smartest kid in the class. As someone who is sick to death of
students who are baked out of their mind, that is a point that cannot
be emphasized enough.

I'm sorry for those who didn't like the show. I'd recommend you not
watch any of Sorkin's other work either. But if you're going to
dislike his shows and movies, I'd recommend other reasons than the
ones expressed.

--
Kevin M. (RPCV)

[PGage]

I walked into my bedroom from the shower this morning and stepped into an in-progress interview with Sorkin on the CBS morning show (whatever they are calling that these days). I presume he was on the other shows as well. Harry Smith asked him about most of the issues mentioned in this thread. Sorkin (who does appear to be sober these days) gently but firmly repeated to Smith's multiple probes that he (Sorkin) is not trying to change cable news, but is only telling a story about a guy who wants to change cable news. When asked how he (Sorkin) would change cable news, he replied that he does not know anything about how to run cable news, and that it would make as much sense for him to give advice on that as it would for him to try to run a baseball team, or be president of the United States. He is attracted to stories about people who are trying to make changes in entrenched systems, but he does not pretend that he himself really knows what the best changes are. He also repeated what I have heard him say before, which is that he tends to create heightened fictional realities, worlds that seem realistic, but that are obviously idealized; so people should not take what he writes as blueprints for how to conduct affairs in the real world. He also said that he really does hear the dialog he writes that way in his head. He also confirmed what I guess had been reported elsewhere but I had not read it, which is that he broke his arm while writing dialogue that will appear in episode 2, because he tends to act out the dialog that he is writing.

Some horrible, awful African-American who for reasons I could not decipher was sitting in on the interview with Smith asked Sorkin some other ridiculous questions, but I ignored her. Sorkin did say some nice things about Nora Ephron, with whom he was apparently friendly, and who he said was one of those who read the pilot script for Newsroom and encouraged HBO to make it.

[Kevin M.]

Here's the CBS AM interview

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7413086n



--
Kevin M. (RPCV)

[Kevin M.]

On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 11:59 AM, Kevin M. <drunkba...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Here's the CBS AM interview
>
> http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7413086n

By the way, 'twas Charlie Rose, not Harry Smith. The female reporter
asking, "are you in love" deserves no name recognition.

--
Kevin M. (RPCV)

[PGage]

Right - sorry (I was only vaguely paying attention to the interviewers).

Is the female reporter a regular on that show?

[Mark Jeffries]

Haven't seen the video, but isn't she Oprah's BFF Gayle King?

Mark Jeffries
Saints Spotlight Editor
spotl...@gmail.com

[Bob in Jersey]

Mark Jeffries wrote:

Haven't seen the video, but isn't she Oprah's BFF Gayle King?

YACS, and if you think back, Kevin reported her hiring here.



--
BOB

[PGage]

I don't know who Gayle King is, though I have heard jokes about Oprah's girl friend. I take she is some kind of entertainment reporter. Yikes.

CBS may want to try to buy Ann Curry out of her NBC news contract.

[Brad Beam]

----- Original Message -----
From: PGage

>Some horrible, awful African-American who for reasons I could not decipher
>was sitting in on the interview with Smith asked Sorkin some other
>ridiculous questions, but I ignored her.

Until I got to the word "her", I thought you were referencing Tyler Perry --
who was included in today's top-of-the-show rundown along with Aaron Sorkin.
(Charlie should've taken a long breath between AS and TP; I wondered what
the two of them would have in common.)

_ _
|_>|_> Brad Beam- Belle WV
|_>|_> http://www.facebook.com/74bmw

[Michael]

I said "might." And I might be right about some of the haters. On the
other hand, opinion is opinion, and I can't read the minds of each and
every viewer. I, for one, am entertained even when I blanch at his
preachiness and heavy-handedness. See? A balanced appraisal but, by
its nature, a subjective one.

[Tom Wolper]

On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 8:52 PM, Michael <miketh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I said "might." And I might be right about some of the haters. On the
> other hand, opinion is opinion, and I can't read the minds of each and
> every viewer. I, for one, am entertained even when I blanch at his
> preachiness and heavy-handedness. See? A balanced appraisal but, by
> its nature, a subjective one.

At least make a distinction between haters and critics. Haters will
look for a reason to bring Sorkin down while, if a critic says that a
Sorkin work is disappointing, that reflects the high expectations that
Sorkin has generated for himself from past work.

[Dave Sikula]

Boy, I can't agree with that one at all. If critics and watchers like me say Sorkin's work is disappointing, it's not because of the high standards he's set; it's because, once again, this guy is given free rein to bloviate. Prolixity and verbosity just doesn't equal profundity to me.

Seeing him on Colbert last night, I think he's a sincere and reasonably nice guy with a moderate talent, but I see too many holes in his skill set to rank him with the great television writers.

Everyone's mileage differs, though, so if you enjoy him, enjoy away.

--Dave Sikula

[Joe Coughlin]

The On the Media Blog wonders if the real reason that critics don't
like The Newsroom is because they're journalists.

http://www.onthemedia.org/blogs/on-the-media/2012/jun/27/problem-newsrooms-critics/

> --
> TV or Not TV .... The Smartest (TV) People!
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "TV or Not TV" group.
> To post to this group, send email to tvor...@googlegroups.com
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> tvornottv-...@googlegroups.com
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/tvornottv?hl=en

--
+++++++++++++++
Joe Coughlin
http://www.twitter.com/inturnaround

[Tom Wolper]

On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 2:39 PM, Dave Sikula <dsi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Boy, I can't agree with that one at all. If critics and watchers like me say
> Sorkin's work is disappointing, it's not because of the high standards he's
> set; it's because, once again, this guy is given free rein to bloviate.
> Prolixity and verbosity just doesn't equal profundity to me.
>
> Seeing him on Colbert last night, I think he's a sincere and reasonably nice
> guy with a moderate talent, but I see too many holes in his skill set to
> rank him with the great television writers.
>
> Everyone's mileage differs, though, so if you enjoy him, enjoy away.

Actually, I agree with you on his TV writing and I gave up on watching
his series. I like his movie screenplays and I have never seen any of
his plays so I can't make an informed comment.

[Michael]

It was a generic "haters." As a professional critic, I know the
difference - and try to acknowledge my biases.

On Jun 28, 8:20 pm, Tom Wolper <twol...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Kevin M.]

HBO just announced on The Newsroom's Facebook page that the series has
already been renewed for a second season.

https://www.facebook.com/Newsroom/posts/471447409550165



--
Kevin M. (RPCV)

[Bob in Jersey]

The latest episode, where the crew hears of bin Laden's killing, inspires a whole new round mostly of teeing off from crix such as from HuffPost and Thompson-on-H'wood...

THR



--
BOB

[Dave Sikula]

The Newsroom passed "preposterous" at about the five-minute mark of the pilot.

A suggestion on how to improve the show, though. Dump Allison Pill. She's a wonderful actress (I've seen her in a few plays), but every time her character and subplots come on screen, it's death to the show. Concentrating less on the love lives of peripheral characters and more on the nuts and bolts of putting a show together -- and the conflicts therein -- would make a much better show. Sorkin, for all his talents, cannot write romantic comedy, no matter what he thinks.

--Dave Sikula