Louis CK thinks he’s served his time

[Kevin M.]

Realizing we will have this discussion for years, here and elsewhere on the intertubes, I don’t know what the timeline is for #metoo accusations, but this seems a little early for Louis to be out of the penalty box. Is there any documented evidence that he’s seen a shrink (NOT Phil McGraw) about his behavior? Have any of his accusers stepped forward on his behalf? I realize there’s no criminal conviction, but is merely stepping out of the public eye a punishment? 

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/27/arts/television/louis-ck-performs-comedy.html

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Kevin M. (RPCV)

[Kevin M.]

Worth revisiting this article as well.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/30/opinion/im-not-ready-for-the-redemption-of-men.html

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Kevin M. (RPCV)

[Chris Neuman]

I’m not sure the court of public opinion has a hand in sentencing, only conviction. That said, if people feel strongly one way or the other they’ll either go see him or ignore him; eventually, bookers and others will find his “market value.” In the case of Louis CK, where he’d essentially pivoted to a self funded business model for both standup and other creative endeavours, it’s a pretty direct and accurate barometer. 

Was there talk that CK spoke to Phil McGraw, or was that just a drive-by diss?

Finally - showing up on a comedy club stage is not the same as “thinking you’ve served your time.” Its not like he came out announcing a new special and a 30-date arena tour. Who knows - maybe this was him taking he temperature and deciding a little more time away from the spotlight is needed; I don’t know. 

Chris

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[PGage]

I don’t know the answers to these questions. The details here point me in a few directions. One is the customer who complained the next Monday that since it was a surprise he was deprived of the opportunity to decide in advance if he wanted to attend a CK show. Yes, he could have walked out, but that puts the burden on the public, rather than the club or the performer. I would rather see someone trying to comeback from this put his name up in advance and take his medicine, rather than try to sneak back. This also lets the market function.

Also, the report is it was a typical set - no comment on or acknowledgement of what he did.  Jokes on the subject, even if self deprecating, are high risk of course. Still, I think if he wants to show he is ready to be given another chance he should somehow be prepared to address it.

CK’s behavior is not like we found out he was doing cocaine back stage, or was fighting dogs or chickens. I don’t feel the need to punish him for bad behavior in general. But I’ll be dammed if I am going to reward bad behavior that helped him get ahead while harming others who might have become his competiton. Men create a climate which facilitates their own pleasure and comfort and undermines safety and advancement of women, and can not then be rewarded for it.

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[Adam Bowie]

I suspect that there's no right answer to this. 

On the one hand, I might very well choose not to spend money on seeing him, but it's probably pretty usual to go to small comedy clubs without knowing exactly who's going to be playing. As a consumer, all I can really do is vote with my feet. If I don't want to see a particular performer, then avoid the clubs that book them. 

It also seems pretty strange to try to avoid the elephant in the room when he performed as well. While it wouldn't necessarily mean that every performance he gives will be an extended mea culpa in future, the inverse is not true either.

The closest thing I can think of involves a British comedian called Jimmy Carr (he's done the odd thing on Comedy Central and has a Netflix panel show coming soon). A few years ago he was implicated in a tax avoidance scheme that was declared illegal. He was caught bang to rights and had to suck it up. He didn't really stop doing stuff. There are loads of panel shows for comedians in the UK, so he was kept busy. But for a good year or two afterwards, it repeatedly came up, with other comics mocking him on air. He sucked it all up, and in his own way apologised. 

Now of course, tax fraud is nowhere near as serious as sexual offences, and can't just be laughed off, or used as the basis of a set. But in that instance it was unthinkable that it wasn't mentioned. 

I honestly don't know how Louis CK could continue his career at this point. I would think it'd take a wait of years rather than months. And he might want to do things very differently when he tries to reboot. 

I suppose it's like the thorny issue of reformed sex offenders. They need to re-enter society, or they simply become a permanent burden on the state, and so they need to be allowed to get a job and a home. But I'm not going to be happy that they're working alongside me, or living next door.

Adam

[Tom Wolper]

On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 5:06 AM Adam Bowie <adam....@gmail.com> wrote:

I honestly don't know how Louis CK could continue his career at this point. I would think it'd take a wait of years rather than months. And he might want to do things very differently when he tries to reboot. 

I suppose it's like the thorny issue of reformed sex offenders. They need to re-enter society, or they simply become a permanent burden on the state, and so they need to be allowed to get a job and a home. But I'm not going to be happy that they're working alongside me, or living next door.

Let's remember that these things are a process and they don't proceed in a linear fashion. While the Bill Cosby story was breaking he was on tour. He continued doing dates and drawing crowds even as the number of accusers mushroomed.

Louis CK has fans who want to see him perform no matter what he's done and they're willing to shame victims for keeping him away. There are also many, many people who take the side of the victims and are not prepared to go to a club or watch a show featuring CK. The venues and entertainment companies are in the middle and they will react to feedback they get whenever he appears.

[Kevin M.]

It is the concept that the venues are in the middle that feels like a conceit to me. It implies a middle ground exists between those who were sexually harassed and “fans” of the guy who did the harassing. That’s not a middle ground, it is a cop-out. 

I would put forward the notion that any comedy club who cannot make money without the sexual harassers needs to close its doors. I would put forward the notion any comedy club who cannot find comics who don’t sexually harass women needs to close its doors. I’d even put forward the notion that, as CK has not expressed or exhibited any signs of changed behavior, booking him to perform presents a massive liability issue. 

People deserve second chances, but before you make with the yuk-yuks, take some ownership of your past misdeeds, show some degree of remorse or regret, demonstrate a willingness to change. This just felt like “Well it’s been a year, time to get back at it.”

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Kevin M. (RPCV)

[Steve Timko]

As others have said, there is no easy answer. I think Louis CK should be able to rehabilitate himself, but if this is a return and not just testing the waters it may be too quick. People ripped on him for doing a routine and not mentioning the allegations. If he had done a routine and mentioned the allegations people would accuse him of being insensitive.

With the exception of his apparently locking the door once, I haven’t seen any allegation against him that amounts to more than a misdemeanor. Locking the door could amount to some sort of illegal detention short of kidnapping and that could be a felony. So I’m not sure it’s fair to refer to him as a sexual offender. He wouldn’t have to register in Nevada or California for what he has admitted doing. I jumped into a few Twitter conversations by pointing out that the #MeToo movement in general has been silent on what Asia Argento almost assuredly did to the 17-year-old boy. That could be statutory rape. She maintains her innocence, unlike Louis CK, who eventually acknowledged his guilt. I don’t think it’s fair that people are throwing bombs at Louis CK and not even giving Argento a skunk eye. Let’s be real. Louis CK traumatized his victims, while Argento fulfilled just about every teen boy’s fantasy.  Still, it’s a huge difference that Louis CK (eventually) admitted what he did while Argento hides behind denial and silence.

[Tom Wolper]

On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 1:03 AM Steve Timko <steve...@gmail.com> wrote:

As others have said, there is no easy answer. I think Louis CK should be able to rehabilitate himself, but if this is a return and not just testing the waters it may be too quick. People ripped on him for doing a routine and not mentioning the allegations. If he had done a routine and mentioned the allegations people would accuse him of being insensitive.

Katie Kilkenny talked to Noam Dworman, the owner of the Comedy Cellar, last week for The Hollywood Reporter. She asked Dworman the right questions about Louis and the circumstances of his appearance at the club and he gave some really thoughtful answers.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/comedy-cellar-owner-discusses-surprise-louis-ck-performance-1138109

[Kevin M.]

Louis CK did another late night set at the Comedy Cellar last night 

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Kevin M. (RPCV)

[PGage]

He strikes again. 

I have a high tolerance for comics saying offensive things as part of their act, and these days more than ever I think we need to safeguard that. But as Dan Rather notes in the link, I think mean-spirited attacks on children who survive mass shootings is one of the places we are going to have to draw the line. 

But something else is disturbing me here too; I admired a lot of the more uncomfortable aspects of his FX show, which I took to be a ruthlessly honest exploration of his own deep flaws. But now it seems it was just his way of indulging his misanthropic and creepy inclination. What s disturbing is that I did not detect that at first. I don’t want to conclude from this that we should assume comics really mean the things they joke about, and that we should hold them accountable accordingly. But...

https://www.newsandguts.com/video/louis-c-k-returns-to-standup-promptly-finds-himself-in-hot-water-again/

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[Doug Eastick]

I bought his self-sold video in 2012. Yes I laughed. Yes I developed ass-itch in my 40s.

But after that... The guy serves no interest to me 

[Kevin M.]

The situation indirectly reminds me of a scene from the pilot episode of the Jay Mohr sitcom Action when an agent tries to get OJ Simpson hired as an actor again. 

From what I hear, CK was punching down, which rarely works comedically. I used to enjoy his stand-up; now I just can’t listen to him. Picking on kids who survived school shootings and picking on the genders of others doesn’t seem like the way to rehabilitate a reputation. Is he volunteering at a battered women’s shelter or speaking openly about seeking treatment for his, put mildly, antisocial behavior? I’m genuinely asking, because the only press I see about him is when he says stupid shit at a stand up gig. Is there any conclusive proof that he’s learned his proverbial lesson? 

[PGage]

Atlantic think pieces are increasingly tiresome, but this one by Megan Garber gets at what I was trying to express yesterday. 

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2018/12/louis-ck-leaked-tape/579220/

“But while offense, in that sense, has always been an element of C.K.’s comedy—offense as a means of inflicting discomfort, and thus, the promise went, of illuminating awkward realities—offense, now, is all there is. The layer of alleged truth-telling is entirely missing from the new material. C.K.’s new set, according to its leaked version, doesn’t merely punch down; it stomps, pettily, to the bottom. None of it is smart or brave; it is simply cruel. And yet it tries to justify itself by suggesting that C.K. himself has been the recipient of cruelty.”

[Bob Jersey]

Pete Davidson, after a disturbing Instagram post many took as a prelude to suicide, resurfaced NYE in Boston for two shows... and among other things, changed a joke originally aimed at Aziz Ansari to instead refer to CK...  THR (link)

B

[Bob Jersey]

Moi, NYD:

Pete Davidson, after a disturbing Instagram post many took as a prelude to suicide, resurfaced NYE in Boston for two shows... and among other things, changed a joke originally aimed at Aziz Ansari to instead refer to CK...  THR (link)

US magazine (link) added that Davidson's enmity came from CK once trying to get him canned from SNL for pot smoking...

B

[Kevin M.]

San Jose Improv has booked him for two nights

https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/california/Louis-CK-to-Perform-at-San-Jose-Improv-With-New-Material-504359301.html

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Kevin M. (RPCV)

[Kevin M.]

Protests are planned, but it appears both shows are sold out

https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/california/Protest-Planned-Ahead-of-Louis-CKs-Performance-at-San-Jose-Improv-504393931.html

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Kevin M. (RPCV)

[Steve Timko]

I'd go if the ticket prices were not too high.

[Kevin M.]

On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 8:04 PM Steve Timko <steve...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'd go if the ticket prices were not too high.

I’d protest if I didn’t occasionally get mistaken for CK... not looking to get my ass kicked for crap I didn’t do

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Kevin M. (RPCV)

[Doug Eastick]

Kevin.... I'm dying laughing here.

[Steve Timko]

Louis CK will still perform sows in Kiev this weekend

https://nypost.com/2022/02/24/louis-ck-to-perform-in-kyiv-in-the-midst-of-russian-invasion/?

[Kevin M.]

His website no longer lists the Kiev dates 

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Kevin M. (RPCV)

[two...@gmail.com]

He’s no Bob Hope.

On Feb 25, 2022, at 12:49 PM, Kevin M. <drunkba...@gmail.com> wrote:



To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKgmY4B55DK1ptevGVwkngpY%3DROy%2BcufcxxrWpKu0wje-mZn%2BA%40mail.gmail.com.

[Doug Eastick]

I'm old enough to understand this comment.