RE: [TVOC] Club Champs Pamber

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peter_n...@yahoo.co.uk

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Nov 1, 2021, 7:19:09 AM11/1/21
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               > James Prowting:           

> fyi, I did not take 227 min to complete…

 

In a similar vein, my course time was not 645 minutes, which would have been a bit excessive even by my standards.  It seems that my EMIT brick quietly passed away during the 2+ years since I last used it.  However I was a still bit surprised to be told this at download*, having seen the LEDs on the base units flash at every control.

 

Oh well, long live SI.

 

  • Peter

 

* And unfortunately not thinking fast enough to reply “45 minutes” when asked “well what was your time” by the download people.

 

 

From: tvoc-m...@googlegroups.com <tvoc-m...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of James Prowting
Sent: 31 October 2021 20:07
To: Members <tvoc-m...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [TVOC] Club Champs Pamber: fyi, I did not take 227 min to complete the Short Green Course today. I have an alibi; I was at home talking to a friend on the phone when allegedly still on the course! Alan Farrington says my Emit brick did not 'wake up' until

 

 

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mark thompson

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Nov 1, 2021, 7:44:30 AM11/1/21
to Peter Narramore, Members
Peter

If the EMIT brick had been in use you would have got a 99 code on download probably before the battery gave out completely. I had the same problem with my brick at a recent Wednesday event, it flashed at all controls but did not record. Leaving them around for a year has not done them any good. The bricks did last a long time though. Had my first  for 10 years! 

SI dibbers can fail as well, except I think they tend not to work on CHECK. However version 5 dibbers were rather flimsy and mine cracked across the end. So I lost the end of my dibber (not nice) on a Scottish 6 day event. The chip was located at the end so the record of my run to that point was lost! Excuse no 341a - I lost the end of my dibber. The SAIC dibbers are very robust but I think the battery is a bit naff (2 years battery life so every chance it will mess up every two years). Hopefully it fails when you have a short walk to the start! 

Mark

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Neville Baker

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Nov 1, 2021, 8:25:39 AM11/1/21
to mark thompson, Members, Peter Narramore
SIACs have a back-up. If the battery fails it can still be used by dibbing in the hole. 
This worked for me recently. At the first control the fly-by didn’t operate, so I assumed the battery was flat and stuck it in the hole at every control. Downloaded OK. Turned out not to be a battery issue, but my failure to clear properly at the Start.
Nev.

Alun Jones

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Nov 1, 2021, 8:31:12 AM11/1/21
to mark thompson, Members, Peter Narramore

Hi Mark

Sorry to disagree, but ...

The 99 is nothing to do with the battery in the card.  It's related to the battery in a control unit.  When those batteries are weak, they write not just the control code and time, but also a 99 code to the card.  By interrogating the software after an event, the results person can then identify if any controls have weak batteries.  In fact, Michael Napier updated his software to produce a warning of any 99 codes.

As regards failing batteries in EMIT cards, sadly there is no real warning of failure.  The only safe approach is to replace the batteries as a matter of course after 5 years.  And my understanding is that, once the battery has failed, there is no way to download the card.  Even if you have back-up pin punches, there is no way to tell the time taken by someone nor whether they had been to the controls before the card failed.  Having said that, I am surprised at what happened to Jim - his card appeared not to start initially, nor at the first four controls, but did then spring to life.  And presumably did not stop at the finish.  Indeed looking at the splits, he appears to have taken 19,425 hours for his course!

SI dibbers do NOT fail.  SIAC dibbers have a battery which will fail in time, at which point they will not work in Air mode.  They will then act just like an ordinary SI dibber.  Non-SIAC SI dibbers do not have a battery in them and therefore last 'for ever'.  But the SI control stations do have a battery, which fails with time - and rather sooner than EMIT control stations.  SI stations do not produce 99 codes either, so the only way of identifying failing batteries is by looking at their voltage, a job which the Equipment Officer will have to do periodically.  We have no experience yet as to how reliable this is.

Actually my statement that SI dibbers do not fail is not quite true.  I have heard of someone breaking the tip off their SI dibber before now - no names mentioned.

Alun

Chris Poole

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Nov 1, 2021, 9:48:00 AM11/1/21
to Alun Jones, mark thompson, Members, Peter Narramore
I have no times for yesterday as EMIT brikkie failure, and it 'flashed' on all controls but refused to download. Fortunately I had used a back up card and it had stayed attached (you do see a few around control sites that have fell off) and my Garmin gave the overall time, probably 30s longer than actual run though.

I like SiAC though, but cost of battery is I think acceptable, and you do get plenty of warning of failure. Replaced a few batteries, and never waited more than a week for the replacement. Currently EMIT giving discount for exchange, but that is still £47 I have to find. Better than £77 for a new one without exchange.

Chris

From: tvoc-m...@googlegroups.com <tvoc-m...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Alun Jones <alun.ori...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, November 1, 2021 12:31:08 PM
To: mark thompson <mark...@gmail.com>
Cc: Members <tvoc-m...@googlegroups.com>; Peter Narramore <peter_n...@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [TVOC] Club Champs Pamber
 

Alun Jones

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Nov 1, 2021, 10:34:23 AM11/1/21
to Chris Poole, Members

Just to be clear, the warning you get on the SIAC battery is basically how old the battery is:  battery poor = over 3 years old.  Despite appearances it is not really a test of the battery condition.  There is no actual warning of imminent battery failure.

As mentioned earlier, SIAC battery failure is annoying (no Air) but not disastrous - you just have to punch rather than waive at controls.  And as Chris says, it's not expensive - £15.  If you give Sportident a couple of weeks notice that you need to change battery they will have a replacement card to send back as soon as yours reaches them.

Have to say, I was horrified by the price of an EMIT card.  Has the £ really fallen that much against the norwegian krone?   Though I can see them for £66 on Allan's website, or £70 if you want one with a flashing light.  Or £39 + £2 postage for battery replacement.  Or are these prices out-of-date?

Alun

mark thompson

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Nov 1, 2021, 10:45:06 AM11/1/21
to Alun Jones, Chris Poole, Members
Allan Farrington is offering £42 replacement for exchange at present. I know cos mine failed a few weeks ago, having not used it for a long time. 

Mark

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mark thompson

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Nov 1, 2021, 10:46:38 AM11/1/21
to Alun Jones, Chris Poole, Members
Frankly if you don't go to the army events on Wednesday's there's not a strong case for replacing your failed EMIT cards. You can usually hire one for a quid or 2. 

mark

peter_n...@yahoo.co.uk

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Nov 1, 2021, 12:05:27 PM11/1/21
to Chris Poole, Alun Jones, mark thompson, Members

I too had used a backup card because of the length of time since I last used the brick.  This of course only proves that I visited all my controls at some time, not when and in which order.  To give the BADO team their due, if I had given them a believable start to finish time then I think they might have taken my word for it before checking the backup and posting it to the results page (probably with a non-comp disclaimer). 

But (a) my time guesstimate could have been +/- 10 minutes (no Garmin) and (b) it wasn’t going to be winning me any awards anyway, so I was OK to leave it as it was.

And I really enjoyed my run in a sunlit (but very damp) forest and that’s the main thing isn’t it?

  • Peter

Richard Sharp

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Nov 1, 2021, 3:21:19 PM11/1/21
to Alun Jones, Chris Poole, Members
My SI card also broke a few years ago. The chip is probably still in a New Forest bog somewhere. I had to buy a new one that I then used only once or twice a year until recently.

A new SIAC card is listed at £74 on the SI website so it looks like little to choose between that and a brikke on price. I won't be buying a SIAC until I break my current SI card.

Richard

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Alun Jones

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Nov 1, 2021, 6:59:36 PM11/1/21
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There appears to be some confusion around regarding the price of SIACs.

SIACs are £62.86, or £65.36 if you want a personalised number (people often want them to be their date of birth), from Sportident UK.  And you can get £3 off if you have an old Si or EMIT card (even if it is dead) to trade in.

Alun

James Prowting

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Nov 3, 2021, 5:47:27 PM11/3/21
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Another irony about my abortive run on Sunday; I thought I was running competitively as a Hypervet on Short Green (my category as an M75 for everything else). It wasn't my day!
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