Add OmegaT+
laseray
baldwin linguas
Ray's Bitext2TMX is good software, though, and, in my opinion,
the best alignment tool.
I use it when I want/need to alignt two texts to create a tmx.
./tony
--
http://www.baldwinlinguas.com
http://www.baldwinsoftware.com
Raymond Martin
On March 12, 2011 10:15:56 AM baldwin linguas wrote:
> I wouldn't waste time with OmegaT+
I think users can decide what tools they want.
Give them choice, not biased reactions.
OmegaT+ is a viable tool that people are using regardless of the opinion of detractors.
Since almost any tool is added into the distro, of varying quality, there is no reason to not put it in, except for some unreasonable prejudice.
Just go check it out on SourceForge. See the number of downloads, see the positive comments (some even that say it is better than OmegaT in certain ways). Try it for yourself. Some of you will start to see that the comments
are justified.
There are people using OmegaT+ in their professional work that do not want to use OmegaT for certain reasons. Everybody can make their own choices when given options.
Believe me, there are many things that could be said about OmegaT that would not be favourable, in terms of programming and the kind of team involved in it.
> Ray's Bitext2TMX is good software, though, and, in my opinion,
> the best alignment tool.
> I use it when I want/need to alignt two texts to create a tmx.
B2T is not my tool, I have just done some work on it the past.
Raymond
baldwin linguas
Many distributions, however, already include OmegaT.
It is the defacto standard in FOSS CAT tools, and with good reason.
But folks can download and use OmeagT+ all they want, by all means.
More power to them.
Simply, my opinion is that, since Ubuntu, upon which TuxTrans is based,
already includes OmegaT in their repos, where it is maintained by
official package
maintainers for the distro, and it clearly does its job well, including OmegaT+
would be redundant, and possibly confusing, especially considering the name.
A fork should really try to pick a new name, as I see it.
A name indicating the project's origin isn't necessarily a bad thing, but,
simply adding one character seems insufficient to properly distinguish
the project.
People get confused.
Also, keep in mind, I don't make decisions for TuxTrans.
I'm just voicing my opinion on the matter.
./tony
--
http://www.baldwinlinguas.com
http://www.baldwinsoftware.com
baldwin linguas
It does look nice.
It fails to recognize my OmegaT projects.
Apparently it is not compatible with the structure or something.
I had rather expected to be able to simply open an OmegaT project
and try it out.
./tony
Raymond Martin
On March 12, 2011 11:41:27 AM baldwin linguas wrote:
> I just downloaded OmegaT+.
> It does look nice.
> It fails to recognize my OmegaT projects.
> Apparently it is not compatible with the structure or something.
> I had rather expected to be able to simply open an OmegaT project
> and try it out.
That just means that your expectations are wrong.
OmegaT+ has no duty to open OmegaT projects.
OmegaT does not open OmegaT+ projects, so all is equal then.
Raymond
baldwin linguas
and fed it the existin tmx files.
it fails to read a single match from an entirely translated project.
Also, OmegaT+ lacks some of the great advances that OmegaT has made
in the past couple of years, including some very useful features,
such as tag insertions, spellchecking, and machine translation capabilities.
It has an interesting feature, a button to open the source document, but,
oddly, it does that by opening a web browser (?!).
The interface is rather aesthetically pleasing, however, and it offers
the ability to change the "theme".
Isn't that cute?
Mostly, it seems like a re-themed, older version of OmegaT, lacking many of
OmegaT's recent advances, but with the capacity to change the "look and feel",
and with many menu item names changed (such as "reopen project"
instead of "reload").
Meh...
I'll stick with OmegaT.
./tony
On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 11:41 AM, baldwin linguas
Raymond Martin
On March 12, 2011 11:54:40 AM baldwin linguas wrote:
> I created a project, mirroring an existing OmegaT project,
> and fed it the existin tmx files. it fails to read a single match from an
> entirely translated project.
I have a few people that use OmegaT+ that also use OmegaT and have no problems. I think they just know what they are doing compared to you.
Perhaps OmegaT has improperly formatted something.
> Also, OmegaT+ lacks some of the great advances that OmegaT has made
> in the past couple of years, including some very useful features,
> such as tag insertions, spellchecking, and machine translation capabilities.
OmegaT+ has machine translation. Google Translation for now. So check your facts because obviously you do not know what you are talking about.
> It has an interesting feature, a button to open the source document, but,
> oddly, it does that by opening a web browser (?!).
It is only odd to you. Many browsers open default plugin applications for viewing.
> The interface is rather aesthetically pleasing, however, and it offers
> the ability to change the "theme".
> Isn't that cute?
Yes, it is pleasing when a person has to work on a tool all day and it is ugly, like OmegaT. Plus my version can switch user interface languages automatically from inside the program. OmegaT cannot and has an awful way of getting translators to localize the program, messing around with zip and other stuff. My way is easy for translators.
> Mostly, it seems like a re-themed, older version of OmegaT, lacking many of
> OmegaT's recent advances, but with the capacity to change the "look and
> feel", and with many menu item names changed (such as "reopen project"
> instead of "reload").
No, lots of things underneath are changed to make the foundation functionality more reliable than OmegaT. OmegaT+ almost never crashes after I fixed specific coding problems that the OmegaT programmers were incapable of. OmegaT uses more memory than OmegaT+ for the same thing, takes longer to start and has user bugs that keep reappearing for the spellchecker and other things.
OmegaT+ uses old code from OmegaT, just as OmegaT does. More than 50% of the code in newer versions of OmegaT is from old 1.4 versions. Don't be fooled and don't try to fool anybody with that misinformation. You should also realize that the so called improved code of OmegaT 2.x is actually a step backwards in software engineering due to really immature deveoper understanding of threads and other issues, which I solved in OmegaT+.
It is no good to keep adding features, but not throughly testing them only to result in more bugs. That is what you have with OmegaT. Just check the user group for recurring bugs, there are a bunch of them.
> I'll stick with OmegaT.
Stick with that poorly tested and unreliable version. Just don't be surprised when more bugs keep getting reported after so-called improvements are added.
Raymond
Raymond Martin
On March 12, 2011 11:35:31 AM baldwin linguas wrote:
> Nobody's saying that users can't choose what they like.
> Many distributions, however, already include OmegaT.
And many more do not include OmegaT. So that for some reason is supposed to prevent OmegaT+ from every being included. Illogical.
> It is the defacto standard in FOSS CAT tools, and with good reason.
Who says it is with good reason. Popularity alone does not equal quality.
Many things are considered de facto standards, yet are not high quality at all (e.g., MS Windows comes to mind).
> Simply, my opinion is that, since Ubuntu, upon which TuxTrans is based,
> ...
This is all hype. It is not your opinion that you are expressing, you are trying to pursuade others not to try OmegaT+, when they have every right to know of it and have access to it.
> Also, keep in mind, I don't make decisions for TuxTrans.
> I'm just voicing my opinion on the matter.
Then why voice an obviously biased one. To try to influence the direction of this distribution, of course.
There is no real reason to not include a fully functional and reliable CAT tool that is free and that is already being used professionally by translators.
Anyway, your response is just the standard antagonism from OmegaT types towards OmegaT+.
Raymond
baldwin linguas
On the contrary, Ray, I encourage everyone to try OmegaT+
I try all kinds of stuff to experiment, all the time.
I play with different gnu/linux distributions, and even other FOSS
operating systems
(syllable, haiku os, *bsd).
It's good to learn.
Some folks may draw conclusions differing from my own.
To date, it seems a lot more have agreed with me, but, that's
irrelevant, I suppose.
However, on your false claim that OmegaT is buggy, I've been using it
for 4 years,
and it has never crashed or caused me problems.
It works, and it is efficient.
Personally, the aesthetics are a moot point, to me.
I tend to eschew use of bloated eye-candy and desktop environments,
etc., and keep
my system lean, use the CLI as much as possible, etc.
Sure. Lots of people like eyecandy.
It doesn't get my work done.
I'm all about getting the work done, and as efficiently as possible.
If that means sacrificing aesthetics, so be it.
I'm not so pretty, myself, but I get the job done.
The fact that OmegaT+ couldn't read matches from standard TMX files, however,
renders it useless to me.
I don't know where you hid the MT, but I couldn't find it.
Not that MT is a deal breaker.
Spelling checking and tag insertion, however, are immensely useful.
You should look into implementing that. Those are pretty well considered
standard features for CAT tools, these days.
As far as including OmeegaT+ in TuxTrans, like I said, not up to me to decide.
Besides, perhaps you should be approaching Ubuntu (and./or Debian and
other distributions.
In fact, I highly recommend trying to get it into Debian).
Having it as an option in the upstream repos is certainly a valid
option, where users could
add it, after installation of TuxTrans, if they wish to try it and/or use it.
Heck, debian has all kinds of redundancy (various packages that do the
same things,
with slight variation). It's called "freedom of choice"!
My feeling about TuxTrans, especially the lighter version, is that
inclusion of 1 tool that
performs a specific job is sufficient in a livedvd/livecd distribution.
You pick the best tool and keep it.
TuxTrans already includes OmegaT, which, contrary to your rant, is
excellent software,
and, yes, widely used.
Tossing OmegaT+ in there would be needlessly redundant.
Again, the decision for said inclusion is not mine.
I just voiced my opinion.
Why voice my clearly and admittedly biased opinion and try to
influence the direction of a distribution?
Because, dear friend, Ray, FOSS projects are, by nature, intended to
be democratic (as you seem to otherwise acknowledge
when speaking of user choice), and people are free to voice their
opinions and attempt to
influence the direction of said projects.
If they don't like the direction a project takes, they can accept the
community's position and comprise,
or, leave, or, as you did with OmegaT, they can fork the project.
Freedom, choice, democrary: It's a beautiful thing!
As far as my bias, well, I've been using OmegaT for near 4 years,
without once a problem that didn't arise
from my own error.
The community support has been stupendous, advances in developments rapid,
the software stable, efficient, and immensely useful. OmegaT has revolutionized
my work. Why would I not be biased?
All the same, I certainly don't see your project as a threat to my
favorite CAT tool, any more than
I would see, say, Corel Wordperfect as a threat to LibreOffice.
Personally, I think OmegaT's popularity speaks for itself.
The OmegaT community doesn't aggressively "market" their software, as
you do, and yet,
it's been adopted for projects as large as OpenOffice as their chosen
localization tool.
It is used in various professional translation agencies (including my
own, of course),
and has begun to achieve the acceptance of the professional
translation industry at large.
That's got to mean they're doing something right.
Good luck with your project.
./tony
baldwin linguas
<baldwin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 12:14 PM, Raymond Martin <las...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On March 12, 2011 11:35:31 AM baldwin linguas wrote:
>> This is all hype. It is not your opinion that you are expressing, you are
>> trying to pursuade others not to try OmegaT+, when they have every right to
>> know of it and have access to it.
>>
>>
>>> I'm just voicing my opinion on the matter.
>>
>> Then why voice an obviously biased one. To try to influence the direction of
>> this distribution, of course.
Just to be clear how biased I am, Ray,
I do list OmegaT+ on my wiki for FOSS for translators:
http://baldwinsoftware.com/wiki/pmwiki.php?n=Main.Freetran
Raymond Martin
> On the contrary, Ray, I encourage everyone to try OmegaT+
It is nice how you contradict yourself when you are called out on your opinions.
> Some folks may draw conclusions differing from my own.
> To date, it seems a lot more have agreed with me, but, that's
> irrelevant, I suppose.
Yes, what you say is completely irrelevant. But you do go on and on and on...
> However, on your false claim that OmegaT is buggy, I've been using it
> for 4 years, and it has never crashed or caused me problems.
> It works, and it is efficient.
You think it is efficient. You have not tested it for efficiency, I have. There are some readily avaialbe tools for this that OmegaT developers do not even bother to use to improve it. It is a fact.
> The fact that OmegaT+ couldn't read matches from standard TMX files,
> however, renders it useless to me.
You are either very ignorant about how to use it, unlike other people that have no problem, or a liar. I, in fact, use TMX that were created in OmegaT originally while testing OmegaT+. Given that and the numbers of other people using OmegaT+ without this "issue", I know the problem is between the chair and the screen.
> I don't know where you hid the MT, but I couldn't find it.
> Not that MT is a deal breaker.
Use your eyeballs. There is a menu "Windows". MT is in a Window(View) ain't it? It just is not on by default in case people do not want it.
> Spelling checking and tag insertion, however, are immensely useful.
> You should look into implementing that. Those are pretty well considered
> standard features for CAT tools, these days.
Those will come, but what OmegaT has implemented for spellchecking is not very good. It works to a point, sure, but how many people keep coming back with problems. It does not support all languages properly and does not even use current dictionaries for it. You have to kludge the language settings to get it to work.
I want something better than that and that does not need external C/C++ libraries to run, limiting it to only those platforms where the code has been compiled. It takes away from Java being cross-platform, as you will see if you try spellchecking on something other that the big 3 OS. Bad idea.
> As far as including OmeegaT+ in TuxTrans, like I said, not up to me to
> decide. Besides, perhaps you should be approaching Ubuntu (and./or Debian
> and other distributions.
> In fact, I highly recommend trying to get it into Debian).
OmegaT+ has already put in a request for Ubuntu packaging a long time ago.
I will check and see what the status is.
> Tossing OmegaT+ in there would be needlessly redundant.
Only to you, but not to people that like OmegaT+ or want the opportunity to try it.
> Why voice my clearly and admittedly biased opinion and try to
> influence the direction of a distribution?
> Because, dear friend, Ray, FOSS projects are, by nature, intended to
> be democratic (as you seem to otherwise acknowledge
> when speaking of user choice), and people are free to voice their
> opinions and attempt to influence the direction of said projects.
First and foremost, I am not your friend in any way shape or form.
Second, some projects only give the appearance of being democratic, just like politics.
> If they don't like the direction a project takes, they can accept the
> community's position and comprise,
> or, leave, or, as you did with OmegaT, they can fork the project.
Wrong. I did not leave. That is a lie propagate by OmegaT members to prevent them from looking bad. I was pushed out on a technicality, merely because I wanted to improve things. A quick excuse was used to kick me off that was completely ridiculous (I packaged a version with some extra files included by mistake, a big error worthy of being ousted don't you think). So as usual they (you?) keep lying.
> Freedom, choice, democrary: It's a beautiful thing!
> As far as my bias, well, I've been using OmegaT for near 4 years,
> without once a problem that didn't arise
> from my own error.
I think you should go back and look at the user group archives. The main reason OmegaT made a change in its architecture to version 2.x was because of intermittent crashes, that are the result of the developers on OmegaT not understanding Java threads. So they changed a whole bunch of things as if that would solve everything. It did to a point. I changed the threading in OmegaT+ without that massive and unnecessary overhaul and it works fine. They just wasted time doing that and now claim it is so much better
> The community support has been stupendous, advances in developments rapid,
> the software stable, efficient, and immensely useful.
I think we can easily disprove the efficiency with available tools. And long term stability is questionable given the inadequate software engineering practices used. Being useful is subjective. OmegaT+ is very useful to those that are using it productively and not to you.
> OmegaT has revolutionized my work.
Other CAT tools could have done the same or similar, so that means nothing.
> All the same, I certainly don't see your project as a threat to my
> favorite CAT tool, any more than
> I would see, say, Corel Wordperfect as a threat to LibreOffice.
> Personally, I think OmegaT's popularity speaks for itself.
Is there something threatening about it that you are feeling? I mean, why would you bring up the idea of it being a threat unless that is somewhere in your mind in the first place.
If I suggest to add OmegaT+ why bother to respond as you did with negativity.
Yes, it is your opinion, but you do hear me saying remove OmegaT even though it is overrated.
> The OmegaT community doesn't aggressively "market" their software, as
> you do, and yet, it's been adopted for projects as large as OpenOffice as
> their chosen localization tool.
Now that is an outright lie. I suppose you think that by saying "please add OmegaT+" I am being aggressive. Ridiculous.
> It is used in various professional translation agencies (including my
> own, of course), and has begun to achieve the acceptance of the professional
> translation industry at large.
Professional translation agencies do not necessarily have most tech savvy people that would really know good from bad in software. The times translators I know have dealt with people having less than a clue about TMX or something else is a joke. What you are saying has no weight behind it.
> That's got to mean they're doing something right.
Not necessarily. If it is just a popularity contest, as you are indicating (OmegaT has, gets, is more than OmegaT+), then that usually means low quality
in this world. Just look at life, computing, industries, and so forth. The most popular thing is not the best thing, it is just what people gravitate towards so they aren't left out. It is a fact very well-known in psychology/sociology. Why do you think so many people use Windows? Because it is the most popular. It takes more brains to use the thing that is not more popular, because then you actually have to discern the real qualities from the imagined ones.
Raymond Martin
tony,
If you are really having a problem with OmegaT+ send me your project/TMX to try that you say is causing no matches. Then we will see.
I am confident that no real issues exist that you are not causing.
Raymond
baldwin linguas
>
>
>
> Yes, what you say is completely irrelevant. But you do go on and on and
> on...
It's really lovely how much we have in common, Ray.
>
>> The fact that OmegaT+ couldn't read matches from standard TMX files,
>
>> however, renders it useless to me.
>
> You are either very ignorant about how to use it, unlike other people that
> have no problem, or a liar. I, in fact, use TMX that were created in OmegaT
> originally while testing OmegaT+. Given that and the numbers of other people
> using OmegaT+ without this "issue", I know the problem is between the chair
> and the screen.
That's certainly one way to win users' confidence and make friends.
> Use your eyeballs. There is a menu "Windows". MT is in a Window(View) ain't
> it? It just is not on by default in case people do not want it.
Where DID I put those eyeballs...hmmm....
>
>> Spelling checking and tag insertion, however, are immensely useful.
>
>> You should look into implementing that. Those are pretty well considered
>
>> standard features for CAT tools, these days.
>
> Those will come, but what OmegaT has implemented for spellchecking is not
> very good. It works to a point, sure, but how many people keep coming back
> with problems. It does not support all languages properly and does not even
> use current dictionaries for it. You have to kludge the language settings to
> get it to work.
"not very good"?
Works for me, and certainly better than "will be implemented".
> I want something better than that and that does not need external C/C++
> libraries to run, limiting it to only those platforms where the code has
> been compiled. It takes away from Java being cross-platform, as you will see
> if you try spellchecking on something other that the big 3 OS. Bad idea.
I have only used OmegaT on gnu/linux, so I can not answer that.
It doesn't seem very relevant, though.
>> As far as including OmeegaT+ in TuxTrans, like I said, not up to me to>
>> decide. Besides, perhaps you should be approaching Ubuntu (and./or Debian>
>> and other distributions.>
>> In fact, I highly recommend trying to get it into Debian).>
> OmegaT+ has already put in a request for Ubuntu packaging a long time ago.
There you go.
>
> I will check and see what the status is.
>
>> Tossing OmegaT+ in there would be needlessly redundant.
>
> Only to you, but not to people that like OmegaT+ or want the opportunity to
> try it.
People that want to try it can download it and try, like I just did,
without using an entire livedvd/cd distribution, no?
>> Why voice my clearly and admittedly biased opinion and try to
>> influence the direction of a distribution?
>> Because, dear friend, Ray, FOSS projects are, by nature, intended to
>> be democratic (as you seem to otherwise acknowledge
>> when speaking of user choice), and people are free to voice their
>> opinions and attempt to influence the direction of said projects.
> First and foremost, I am not your friend in any way shape or form.
Too bad for you, Ray. I'm a good friend, and very friendly.
> Second, some projects only give the appearance of being democratic, just
> like politics.
Oh, right...like the OmegaT project, where the majority of developers
didn't want to
implement your ideas, thus leading to your fork.
Clearly, they should have all just shut up and did what you wanted.
That would have been much more democratic, indeed.
>> If they don't like the direction a project takes, they can accept the
>> community's position and comprise,
>> or, leave, or, as you did with OmegaT, they can fork the project.
> Wrong. I did not leave. That is a lie propagate by OmegaT members to prevent
> them from looking bad. I was pushed out on a technicality, merely because I
> wanted to improve things. A quick excuse was used to kick me off that was
> completely ridiculous (I packaged a version with some extra files included
> by mistake, a big error worthy of being ousted don't you think). So as usual
> they (you?) keep lying.
I imagine there's more to it than that.
Really, they haven't said anything on the matter to me, other than
that you disagreed
with the rest of the project and left.
That hardly amounts to slander, unlike, of course, your accusations
against the project,
which, considering their longstanding record of working democratically
and providing
great support, working together with the community, seem very unlikely.
>> Freedom, choice, democrary: It's a beautiful thing!
>> As far as my bias, well, I've been using OmegaT for near 4 years,
>> without once a problem that didn't arise
>> from my own error.
> I think you should go back and look at the user group archives. The main
> reason OmegaT made a change in its architecture to version 2.x was because
> of intermittent crashes, that are the result of the developers on OmegaT not
> understanding Java threads. So they changed a whole bunch of things as if
> that would solve everything. It did to a point. I changed the threading in
> OmegaT+ without that massive and unnecessary overhaul and it works fine.
> They just wasted time doing that and now claim it is so much better
Whatever.
Never crashed on any of my systems, on three different gnu/linux distributions.
>
>> The community support has been stupendous, advances in developments rapid,
>> the software stable, efficient, and immensely useful.
> I think we can easily disprove the efficiency with available tools. And long
> term stability is questionable given the inadequate software engineering
> practices used. Being useful is subjective. OmegaT+ is very useful to those
> that are using it productively and not to you.
Apparently, in your vocabulary, "efficient" is also subjective.
>> OmegaT has revolutionized my work.
> Other CAT tools could have done the same or similar, so that means nothing.
Maybe.
I also use Anaphraseus, sometimes.
Virtaal and poedit are also useful.
While those are all very useful, none of them quite come close to
OmegaT in terms of
treatment of a broad range of file formats, ease of use, and other
factors, so, I would
not say that they've revolutionized my work.
I have also tried other CAT tools, such as Heartsome, CafeTrans, Swordfish.
Of those, Swordfish was probably the, in MY opinion, the most useful.
I only tried it out of curiosity, however, and, since we are a 100% FOSS shop,
never intended to implement use thereof beyond a cursory examination.
>> All the same, I certainly don't see your project as a threat to my
>> favorite CAT tool, any more than
>> I would see, say, Corel Wordperfect as a threat to LibreOffice.
>> Personally, I think OmegaT's popularity speaks for itself.
> Is there something threatening about it that you are feeling?
No. Didn't you read the above paragraph?
You're the one being belligerent and acting like a cornered animal.
> If I suggest to add OmegaT+ why bother to respond as you did with
> negativity.
Oh, now, negativity...You're the one hurling insults, my friend.
(Oh, sorry, that's right. You've already made it clear that you are
not my friend.
I'm really heartbroken over that, too...)
> Yes, it is your opinion, but you do hear me saying remove OmegaT even though
> it is overrated.
>> The OmegaT community doesn't aggressively "market" their software, as
>> you do, and yet, it's been adopted for projects as large as OpenOffice as
>> their chosen localization tool.
> Now that is an outright lie. I suppose you think that by saying "please add
> OmegaT+" I am being aggressive. Ridiculous.
To my knowledge (correct me if I'm wrong), OmegaT developers don't
hang out on your
project user list and try to lure people away from your project, as
you did to ME, when
I started using OmegaT back in 2007.
>> It is used in various professional translation agencies (including my
>> own, of course), and has begun to achieve the acceptance of the
>> professional translation industry at large.
> Professional translation agencies do not necessarily have most tech savvy
> people that would really know good from bad in software. The times
> translators I know have dealt with people having less than a clue about TMX
> or something else is a joke.
True. I'll give you that. But, what agencies do is choose the tools
that are going
to be most cost-effective, efficient, and useful for them, provide the
most cross-compatiblity, etc..
So, whatever you deem "good/bad software" may likely have every
relevance to many
agencies.
Is OmegaT+ working with Trados .ttx files?
> What you are saying has no weight behind it.
?!
>> That's got to mean they're doing something right.
>
> Not necessarily. If it is just a popularity contest, as you are indicating
> (OmegaT has, gets, is more than OmegaT+), then that usually means low
> quality in this world.
Popularity is an indication of poor quality?
That would be hard to defend logically.
While, certainly, there are many popular things that are not of the best quality
(such as, as you mention, Microsoft software), but that doesn't logically follow
that popular = poor quality.
On the contrary, there are also many very popular things that are
popular because
of their quality, such as Debian GNU/Linux, for instance, the largest,
most widely used
GNU/Linux distribution.
> Just look at life, computing, industries, and so forth. The
> most popular thing is not the best thing, it is just what people gravitate
> towards so they aren't left out. It is a fact very well-known in
> psychology/sociology.
Yes, the most popular thing is not always the best thing.
But, sometimes it is.
Evolution tends to weed out inferior stuff, eventually.
> Why do you think so many people use Windows? Because
> it is the most popular. It takes more brains to use the thing that is not
> more popular, because then you actually have to discern the real qualities
> from the imagined ones.
People use Windows mostly due to Redmond's marketing,
and the perceived "greater ease of use" that it once offered.
Sure.
I agree with you.
I have no clue what that has to do with OmegaT, who doesn't market
their product,
but has become popular merely on the merits of the software.
baldwin linguas
> tony,
>
> If you are really having a problem with OmegaT+ send me your project/TMX to
> try that you say is causing no matches. Then we will see.
I can't.
It's confidential materials.
sorry.
But, if it is helpful to know, I merely loaded the project_save.tmx
and level1.tmx
from an OmegaT project into the tm/ dir of an OmegaT+ project.
(I renamed the project_save.tmx, just in case that might cause
confusion, which I doubt
it should, but you never know).
There were really no tags to speak of.
It occurs to me that if the source document were laden with tags,
maybe the level1.tmx
wouldn't be the choice? But it wasn't, anyway.
peter.s...@uibk.ac.at
thanks for the information on OmegaT+, Raymond.
Unfortunately, we are trying hard to get a smaller package for
tuxtrans, that was one of the reasons why we got rid of lokalize and
all the kde libraries on the latest release, and it seems to me that
including OmegaT+ alongside OmegaT wouldn't give users much more
functionality.
Peter
Raymond Martin
On March 12, 2011 02:28:30 PM baldwin linguas wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 2:04 PM, Raymond Martin <las...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > tony,
> >
> > If you are really having a problem with OmegaT+ send me your project/TMX
> > to try that you say is causing no matches. Then we will see.
>
> I can't. It's confidential materials. sorry.
What an amazingly convenient excuse. I can keep a secret, c'mon.
> But, if it is helpful to know, I merely loaded the project_save.tmx
> and level1.tmx
> from an OmegaT project into the tm/ dir of an OmegaT+ project.
> (I renamed the project_save.tmx, just in case that might cause
> confusion, which I doubt
> it should, but you never know).
> There were really no tags to speak of.
> It occurs to me that if the source document were laden with tags,
> maybe the level1.tmx
> wouldn't be the choice? But it wasn't, anyway.
See, you do not know what you are doing. I told you that OmegaT+ has no duty to load OmegaT projects. It has no duty to do things exactly as OmegaT does them.
Renamed those files to what? Where? You are telling me almost nothing.
The solution to your problem is to read the documentation properly (RTFM).
The answers are all there if you look. Don't expect it to tell you about OmegaT though. If you understand anything about these formats it will be very easy to figure out.
The problem seems to be between the chair and the screen still.
Raymond
baldwin linguas
> On March 12, 2011 02:28:30 PM baldwin linguas wrote:
>
>> I can't. It's confidential materials. sorry.
>
> What an amazingly convenient excuse. I can keep a secret, c'mon.
I have an NDA with the client.
Considering your otherwise immature behavior, I wouldn't trust you with
any secrets.
>
>> But, if it is helpful to know, I merely loaded the project_save.tmx
>
>> and level1.tmx
>
>> from an OmegaT project into the tm/ dir of an OmegaT+ project.
>
>> (I renamed the project_save.tmx, just in case that might cause
>
>> confusion, which I doubt
>
>> it should, but you never know).
>
>> There were really no tags to speak of.
>
>> It occurs to me that if the source document were laden with tags,
>
>> maybe the level1.tmx
>
>> wouldn't be the choice? But it wasn't, anyway.
>
> See, you do not know what you are doing. I told you that OmegaT+ has no duty
> to load OmegaT projects. It has no duty to do things exactly as OmegaT does
> them.
I created an OmegaT+ project.
I wrote that.
>
> Renamed those files to what? Where? You are telling me almost nothing.
I remaned "project_save.tmx" to "oldprojectsave.tmx".
Unless OmegaT+ is doing something really weird, that shouldn't stop it
from reading the .tmx files.
>
> The solution to your problem is to read the documentation properly (RTFM).
I'm not going to waste any further time with your software or manual, Ray.
I have a tool that does that job, already, and includes tag insertion
and spellchecking.
You want to know something?
I've still never read the OmegaT manual.
It's so easy to use, I never had to.
>
> The answers are all there if you look. Don't expect it to tell you about
> OmegaT though. If you understand anything about these formats it will be
> very easy to figure out.
>
I understand that OmegaT, Anaphraseus, and whatever all my clients are using
(most of them use Trados, frankly) can read and use the standard .tmx
files generated
by OmegaT.
I know plenty about .tmx files.
I often edit them by hand. I could write one by hand, if need be.
They are, after all, simply xml files.
> The problem seems to be between the chair and the screen still.
If your software can't read a simple xml file, in standard .tmx
format, it's no fault of mine.
thanks for your time,
Tony
laseray
> I wrote that.
> > Renamed those files to what? Where? You are telling me almost nothing.
>
> I remaned "project_save.tmx" to "oldprojectsave.tmx".
> Unless OmegaT+ is doing something really weird, that shouldn't stop it
> from reading the .tmx files.
anything in either in OmegaT+ or OmegaT.
> > The solution to your problem is to read the documentation properly (RTFM).
>
> I'm not going to waste any further time with your software or manual, Ray.
> I have a tool that does that job, already, and includes tag insertion
> and spellchecking.
> You want to know something?
> I've still never read the OmegaT manual.
> It's so easy to use, I never had to.
OmegaT+.
The problem is dummies from OmegaT thinking they are just going to
plop in OmegaT crap without thinking.
Why would anyone think that, it is not written in the documentation
that it can be done. So lame.
> > The problem seems to be between the chair and the screen still.
>
> If your software can't read a simple xml file, in standard .tmx
> format, it's no fault of mine.
project.tmx inside the /OmegaT+ directory.
Then everything works. I even just did it here a few times to make
sure I was remebering it correctly.
See how easy that is. Should work 100% unless you fuck something else
up.
This claim of not wasting time is so stupid. I think you have proved
beyond a doubt that you are indeed a moron.
You should also try not to blabber on LinkedIn about stupid shit. It
is for professionally conduct.
Some of things you write there are supremely dumb.
laseray
the contrary. New users of OmegaT+ are having a fine time with it. My
patron users and clients are having no problems with it. The only
people I ever really hear complaining are on the OmegaT side. Sour
grapes I believe...
Tony, it is no surprise that you are wrong and in this way because,
first, OmegaT+ works very well. It has been tested many, many times,
with all sorts of TMX and files. Second, OmegaT zealots always try to
show that OmegaT+ does not work, even when it does. They usually screw
up because they do not bother to get their facts straight before
saying things that are untrue. They just say it does not work after
making a lame attempt and expecting it to do things just as OmegaT
does.
OmegaT people are basically fanbois. Those people that are completely
unreasonable (unable to reason) in regard to some technology and
believe it can do no wrong, is perfect, infallibale, and so forth.
These are the most annoying people who cannot think straight. The fact
is that all (ALL) software has bugs. It can always be improved. While
OmegaT may have some more features than OmegaT+, that does not mean at
some time the reverse will not occur. This is what they are afraid of
and perhaps they are right to be afraid. I mean, just look at OmegaT
+.
Even from just looking at it you know it is done in a more
professional manner. Looks do count. The user interface is the
program. Anybody who thinks that the user interface, its looks and
behavior, are not so important does not know very much about how to
make software user friendly, does not understand ergonomics or human-
computer interactions. These are leading edge areas in computer
science and software engineering, just look at the interfaces of
Android devices, iPad/iPhone, Ubuntu creating a new window manager not
based on X11, compiz, and on and on. You are living in the stoneage of
GUIs if you do not make periodic improvements. OmegaT does not really
make any, except for when it stole my idea to use a docking desktop,
which was actually in OmegaT+ first. They even had to copy me by using
the exact same library for it! And even that it is out-of-date!!!
Just remember the version of OmegaT+ that is out there is from almost
a year ago. Work is ongoing as I go down the list of feature requests
and additions to get a beta out. I wonder how much of my ideas OmegaT
will steal and not give me credit for this time?
baldwin linguas
>> I created an OmegaT+ project.
>> I wrote that.
>
>> > Renamed those files to what? Where? You are telling me almost nothing.
>>
>> I remaned "project_save.tmx" to "oldprojectsave.tmx".
>> Unless OmegaT+ is doing something really weird, that shouldn't stop it
>> from reading the .tmx files.
>
> Why would you name it to that? That filename has no relevance to
> anything in either in OmegaT+ or OmegaT.
Shows how much you know.
It has all the translated segments in it.
I'd call that "significant".
Now, I know I can have multiple tmx files with the same name in
an OmegaT project, but, I just figured I'd make things easy for your
crippled software by renaming the file to avoid confusion.
I didn't know (still don't) whether your software has or creates a
"project_save.tmx".
Why do you insist on insulting people?
You call people "dummies", while acting like an insolent child.
Boohoo...nobody wants to play with your software...
Take your ball and go home, kid.
Your mother is calling you.
I've been polite, so far, but I've had a enough.
You're the idiot.
You couldn't play nice in the democratic environment of the
OmegaT project, so you forked the project, couldn't even think of
a different name, and tossed out some crappy remake,
with the menu items renamed, and some half-assed, rehacked project
structure, or something; You lurk on any list where people might
be OH NO using OmegaT and try to lure them away to use your
inferior product, and, then, when people who have tried your
crap report that it doesn't work, or lacks useful features,
you sulk about insulting people like a child.
I've been very nice to you, Ray.
I DO list your software on my wiki for FOSS for translators,
whether I use it or not.
I even wrote you a recommendation on LinkedIN, if you recall.
All you're doing is showing the world what a complete jerk you are, now,
resorting to foul language, even.
You're a real piece of work.
baldwin linguas
> Listen everybody, OmegaT+ does work! Don't believe the OmegaT hype to
> the contrary. New users of OmegaT+ are having a fine time with it. My
> patron users and clients are having no problems with it. The only
> people I ever really hear complaining are on the OmegaT side. Sour
> grapes I believe...
You know what?
The only person I have ever heard report that it works is YOU, Ray.
tony
laseray
You see OmegaT+ is more up-to-date and uses TMX 1.4, as it is sensible
to current in these things.
OmegaT lags OmegaT+ here.
Open up your TMX that you want to use as the project TMX and change
the version number to 1.4.
then find/replace "tuv lang=" with "tuv xmL;lang=" and save.
Name the file project.tmx as it is a TMX for a project.
project_save.tmx is a silly useless name, typical of the way OmegaT
does things.
Everything works fine.
OmegaT is behind the times because there is no need to keep the TMX at
version 1.1 at all.
baldwin linguas
folder.
OmegaT+ didn't find a single match.
Now, I have done as you instructed, and placed the oldprojecsave.tmx
in the OmegaT+
directory, and renamed it "project.tmx".
OmegaT+ still doesn't find a single match.
Here's a screenshot of your pretty little program, being complete useless:
http://www.baldwinsoftware.com/images/031211170301.jpg
I just took that shot, with a project that I fully translated a week ago,
and not even with a single word segment does it read the matching tu
from the STANDARD .tmx files, either in tm/ or in OmegaT+/project.tmx
Your software doesn't work.
It didn't work when I gave it a FAIR trial back in 2007.
It doesn't work now.
bye,
tony
baldwin linguas
> I see the problem now OmegaT only creates TMX 1.1 for the project TMX.
> You see OmegaT+ is more up-to-date and uses TMX 1.4, as it is sensible
> to current in these things.
It should be backwards compatible with older formats.
While OmegaT may only create 1.1, it does read 1.4.
What kind of idiotic software is going to require the user to
edit 4 years worth of translation memories so they can be used?
Even the idiots in Redmond know enough to make their new software
read their old formats.
>
> OmegaT lags OmegaT+ here.
>
> Open up your TMX that you want to use as the project TMX and change
> the version number to 1.4.
> then find/replace "tuv lang=" with "tuv xmL;lang=" and save.
>
> Name the file project.tmx as it is a TMX for a project.
> project_save.tmx is a silly useless name, typical of the way OmegaT
> does things.
>
> Everything works fine.
>
> OmegaT is behind the times because there is no need to keep the TMX at
> version 1.1 at all.
--
http://www.baldwinlinguas.com
http://www.baldwinsoftware.com
baldwin linguas
Translations, closed OmegaT+
and reopened the project,
and it didn't have any of the translations.
Furthermore, your suggested edits to the tmx file now cause it to
throw an error upon loading of
the project.
I'm done wasting my time with this crap.
thanks,
tony
laseray
Prior the diplomatic manipulator were completely jackasses.
Marc Prior tried to steal my work and Helary freaked out everytime I
wanted to do something sensible from my experience in professional
software development.
Those OmegaT memebers and some others are a bunch of liars and
manipulators. That is whjy you do not hear much about OmegaT+ or me,
because they do not want everyone to know the truth about their
behavior. Helary has freaked a number of times abusing people on the
OmegaT user group. He even left the project in a rant a few times, a
real child. He even had the never to try to get the bitext2tmx project
to kick me off. What a fuckhead. You really expect me to be nice.
Marc Prior lies and tells the world that OmegaT has a trademark, which
only applies in Germany, but by omission they have others think it
applies to the whole world, then they and others come at me claiming
trademark infringement. Scumbags all!
These are not above board, honest people thinking and acting in the
best spirit of FOSS.
Then I have to listen to the bullshit coming out of your mouth. I have
been more than patient in the past listening to this crap. You just do
not know when to shut up.
laseray
On Mar 12, 5:11 pm, baldwin linguas <baldwinling...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It should be backwards compatible with older formats.
> While OmegaT may only create 1.1, it does read 1.4.
> What kind of idiotic software is going to require the user to
> edit 4 years worth of translation memories so they can be used?
project, there is no problem.
If you use your TMX externally there is no problem. The only problem
is the outdated format of OmegaT.
And this is easily fixed within a minute or two with a capable editor.
Took me all but about a minute to convert
a large project TMX. That is nothing compared to the future years of
use you will get.
> Even the idiots in Redmond know enough to make their new software
> read their old formats.
is something entirely different fool!
The project TMX does not have to be backwards compatible. This is a
separate project and it has no requirement
to be backwards compatible with outdated standards that OmegaT uses
for the project format.
On the other hand, OmegaT+ reads external TMX as any of the versions.
The project one should be current with standards. OmegaT development
is stupid, that is all.
laseray
On Mar 12, 5:13 pm, baldwin linguas <baldwinling...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I re-translated a dozen or so segments, generated TMs and
> Translations, closed OmegaT+
> and reopened the project,
> and it didn't have any of the translations.
> Furthermore, your suggested edits to the tmx file now cause it to
> throw an error upon loading of
> the project.
did it over here and it works perfectly.
Again between the chair and the screen dude!
laseray
I have had numbers of other people use OmegaT+ to create localizations
for the program who were highly unfamiliar with CAT programs and even
they managed to get the work done. Everything worked fine.
You have been using CAT for years and can't make it work. That is
pretty sad.
laseray
version 1.1 has lang= in the tuv for the locale
version 1.4 has xml:lang= in the tuv for the locale
You have to replace all of them, not a few. And change the TMX versin
at the top to 1.4.
Use "replace all" in a good editor, not "replace" (one at a time).
and use find "tuv lang=" and replace with "tuv xml:lang=" without the
quotes
It works 100% if you do it correctly. It is not hard to do if you
think logically.
baldwin linguas
>
>
> When the format is external, not the native format of a program. This
> is something entirely different fool!
>
> The project TMX does not have to be backwards compatible. This is a
> separate project and it has no requirement
> to be backwards compatible with outdated standards that OmegaT uses
> for the project format.
>
> On the other hand, OmegaT+ reads external TMX as any of the versions.
No it doesn't, Ray.
I used these externally, first, in the tm/ directory.
I only tried it in the OmegaT+ directory at your instructions,
and it still failed to work, when I followed your instructions,
precisely.
This is exactly what happened back in 2007, or, wait, it was actually
late 2006, when I first started using any CAT tool.
I had been using OmegaT for all of a week when you appeared out of
the blue and tried to "sell" me OmegaT+.
I tried it, and it didn't work. I hung out on your user list, followed your
instructions, and it still didn't work.
Then you went off on a vile rant, belittling me, my mother, the OmegaT
project (which by then was working for me), the Dalai Lama,
and pit bull terriers, and/or anyone else you could think of to bad mouth,
just as you are doing now.
So, since OmegaT was working, and your software wasn't, I stuck with OmegaT.
I've been using it since then, and OmegaT works great for me.
End of story.
OmegaT works for me.
Your software doesn't, even when I follow your instructions, precisely.
I've learned a lot since 2006, Ray.
I've even learned some programming, and released a few programs.
I even released a whole gnu/linux livecd for translators back in 07/08.
I'm no idiot. I understand file format, scripting, and a whole lot of
other stuff.
Your software's failure to function as expected is no fault of mine.
thanks,
tony
baldwin linguas
That's precisely what I did, Ray.
It still didn't work.
You know, you should reall write a book on how
to win friends and influence people.
I'd buy it, just for giggles.
./tony
baldwin linguas
<baldwin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 5:31 PM, laseray <las...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Obviously, you are an idiot and do not understand TMX.
>>
>> version 1.1 has lang= in the tuv for the locale
>> version 1.4 has xml:lang= in the tuv for the locale
>>
>> You have to replace all of them, not a few. And change the TMX versin
>> at the top to 1.4.
>>
>> Use "replace all" in a good editor, not "replace" (one at a time).
>>
>> and use find "tuv lang=" and replace with "tuv xml:lang=" without the
>> quotes
>>
>> It works 100% if you do it correctly. It is not hard to do if you
>> think logically.
>
>
> That's precisely what I did, Ray.
> It still didn't work.
Actually, in truth, I did it with sed, not a gui text editor.
I did cat the file afterwards to verity that everything had been replaced, too.
My sed skills proved sufficient.
Just your software doesn't.
laseray
> No it doesn't, Ray.
(v1.4), 6 external TMX in v1.1 and v1.4
And I got multiple matches from the mix of TMX 1.1 and 1.4
> I used these externally, first, in the tm/ directory.
> I only tried it in the OmegaT+ directory at your instructions,
> and it still failed to work, when I followed your instructions,
> precisely.
by OmegaT+, OmegaT, Trados. All work.
> This is exactly what happened back in 2007, or, wait, it was actually
> late 2006, when I first started using any CAT tool.
> I had been using OmegaT for all of a week when you appeared out of
> the blue and tried to "sell" me OmegaT+.
> I tried it, and it didn't work. I hung out on your user list, followed your
> instructions, and it still didn't work.
has helped lots of people use the program succesfully it just looks
like you are the issue. Especially when I just went and checked
various projects and external legacy TMX without any issues.
> Your software's failure to function as expected is no fault of mine.
work and not you? Even JC H pain-in-the-ass has gotten it to work. I
have tested it on Linux, Mac OS X, Windows, Solaris, BSD. No problems.
You are the only person telling me it does not work out of all the
thousands of downloads.
Logic dictates that the problem rests with you. The simplest answer is
the most likely correct one.
I have been working on this since 2005. It works. Clients of mine use
it in their work to earn a living. It works.
I would be getting bloody hell from them if it did not.
Since I am in the postion of superior knowledge about software and
apparently TMX, possibly other related issues, it would seem sensible
that I know what I am talking about.
The problem is on your side. Something you are doing wrong, something
wrong with formats or character encoding, as a guess.
Your repeated statement that it does not work from no fault of yours
is built on faulty logic when you consider the facts I have given
here.
laseray
> I did cat the file afterwards to verity that everything had been replaced, too.
> My sed skills proved sufficient.
> Just your software doesn't.
spite of the fact that many people use OmegaT+ without any problem on
all 3 major OS and more.
I'm not sure how those people managed to create the localizations for
OmegaT+ with it then. They used the program, followed my instructions,
and made revisions, sent me the localization. I am in awe of how my
clients use OmegaT+ in their professional work for ongoing projects
with big companies when it won't function, open a project, or give
matches. They are really amazing to just let me give them something
that does not work without complaints and then keep me around out of
some false loyalty for my bad work.
Can you see how ridiculous your claims are in light of this?
Your thinkng is that since it does not work for you then it does not
work. While it isn't useful for you at the moment, out of some
mistakes you are making or a misconfigured system or something else,
that in no way means the program is at fault when many others use it
successfully.
When this is finally figured out then it will be clear that there was
nothing wrong with program, just something you are messing up that
others are not.
baldwin linguas
>> > On the other hand, OmegaT+ reads external TMX as any of the versions.
>
> apparently TMX, possibly other related issues, it would seem sensible
> that I know what I am talking about.
Assume much, do we?
>
> The problem is on your side. Something you are doing wrong, something
> wrong with formats or character encoding, as a guess.
>
> Your repeated statement that it does not work from no fault of yours
> is built on faulty logic when you consider the facts I have given
> here.
I found the problem.
Your program keeps resetting the language parameters.
The project is Portuguese to English, but your program keeps resetting it
to EN to EN_GB (wtf? why?).
I went into the project.xml and edited by hand for the correct
language parameters,
and, yes, Ray, it is NOW reading the matches.
I stand corrected.
Your program can read a tmx file.
It's just stubborn about insisting on using the wrong languages.
I initially created the project as PT to EN_US, and didn't look at it
again until
I looked in the project.xml, and saw that it was incorrect.
I distinctly remember that when I first created the project it was en
> en_gb, and that I
altered that for the correct parameters.
Now, when I found it was still en>en_gb, I tried to reset that via the
gui, and it reset itself, yet again, when I reloaded
(excuse me, "reopened") the project.
So, being an idiot, and clearly not wanting to give your software a fair shake,
because I'm a moron and heavily biased,
I simply edited the project.xml file, and reloaded the project.
(How many users would have found the project.xml file and known to edit it?)
Now it is reading matches.
I closed the program and restarted it, half expectingto it to reset
the language on its own again,
and it did not, which is good.
So, at long last, Ray, after 4 years, I have your program working!
If it had spellcheck and tag insertion, I might continue to work with it.
Well, that and the fact that you spent half the day insulting me.
baldwin linguas
perhaps, so you can't accuse me of being
unfair, and other users may benefit, I have a couple of comments, now
that I have this working.
I do like Mod1+UP Mod1+Down for moving from one segment to another.
I may change OmegaT to do that.
Omegat allows me to set the keybinding according to my tastes.
I see Ctrl-U Ctrl-Shift-U to change case. One binding should be
sufficient to toggle between the two.
I do like how OmegaT has one binding that will do that, plus include
"Title Case" (uppercase initials,
with remaining text lowercase).
Why generate translation memories separate from generate translations?
Since one is going to want both, it just seems more efficient to do
that simultaneously,
to me. I'm interested in your reasoning for separating the two.
I don't see a binding or menu option for "insert source".
This is done with ctrl-shift-r in OmegaT (which is used for overwriting
with the MT offering in +).
Maybe it's not useful to you because you don't automatically insert
fuzzy matches?
I see even 100% matches are not automatically inserted in the target segment.
I think a lot of these things would slow me down.
That could just as well be likely due to the fact that I'm used to
doing things differently,
but inserting my fuzzy matches (with the option of overwriting with
the source text), especially,
makes more sense to me.
Configure segmentation and Configure Document Filters are greyed out in my menu.
Why?
I don't understand the logic in having a distinct windowpane showing
the source text,
when I can see that in the editing window, anyway.
It seems redundant. LIkewise the "translation view" pane.
Also having search and metric etc. all part of the main window by
default just seems unnecessary.
Clearly, the user can turn those off, and open them when needed, but
why include all that
by default, anyway?
The little buttons on the left for choosing which match to insert are
cute, but, I'd much
prefer not to have to leave the keyboard and grab a mouse to do that.
In OmegaT I can simply do Ctrl+Number (ie. for match 2, Ctrl-2) to
choose, and then
Ctrl-R to insert it. That's more efficient.
The more I can use the keyboard to control the program, the better, really.
Heck, I don't use a desktop environment with all kinds of clicky
pointy nonsense,
but simply openbox, without so much as panel, and have added a
tonelada of keybindings to
openbox to do stuff I want without having to use a mouse. It is, for
me, more efficient, thus.
The search function in OmegaT has a lot more configurability/advanced
search options,
so far as I can see. Maybe if I read the manual and edit some config
file to the newest
xml specification and sacrifice a goat I could get more search options?
OmegaT+ isn't reading my glossaries.
I imagine you're going to call me a dummy and an idiot and a moron and
explain that I'm probably
using the wrong format. Save it.
No matter. I really don't use glossaries much, anyway.
If (when) I care enough, I'd read the manual, I suppose.
All in all, I just don't see any advantages over OmegaT, as far as
doing my work.
You claim to make better use of system resources, if I understand you correctly,
but, I don't see that. OmegaT+ seems to be using about twice as much
ram as OmegaT
routinely does.
I did notice that your .sh script for starting OmegaT+ dictates how
much ram to use.
OmegaT doesn't. Clearly, anyone in the know can alot more or less to
OmegaT as they wish,
in the same manner you dictate that amount.
Incidentally, I didn't use your script to start OmegaT+
I just did java -jar OmegaT+whatever.jar
It seems to grab enough memory without me telling it how much to use,
all on its own.
At least, for once, I seem to actually be able to translate a document
with OmegaT+.
It was fun to play with.
thanks
baldwin linguas
>> Actually, in truth, I did it with sed, not a gui text editor.
>> I did cat the file afterwards to verity that everything had been replaced, too.
>> My sed skills proved sufficient.
>> Just your software doesn't.
>
> More assumptions about it being impossible for you to be wrong in
> spite of the fact that many people use OmegaT+ without any problem on
> all 3 major OS and more.
>
> I'm not sure how those people managed to create the localizations for
> OmegaT+ with it then. They used the program, followed my instructions,
> and made revisions, sent me the localization. I am in awe of how my
> clients use OmegaT+ in their professional work for ongoing projects
> with big companies when it won't function, open a project, or give
> matches. They are really amazing to just let me give them something
> that does not work without complaints and then keep me around out of
> some false loyalty for my bad work.
They were probably just using OmegaT, and not telling you, because you'd
call them morons and hurt their feelings.
:P
> When this is finally figured out then it will be clear that there was
> nothing wrong with program, just something you are messing up that
> others are not.
I did figure it out.
See previous message.
Your program kept insisting on using the wrong language until I manually edited
the project.xml file.
Weird. I know.
Don't blame me. I didn't write the program.
./tony
baldwin linguas
I see there ARE more search options, just not in the pane in the main window.
One must click the little search scope icon thingy.
Cute.
I don't see any "save project".
I assume "generate translation memories" will do this, but, I just find
it odd.
One thing that would go a long way with me is to be able to
reconfigure the keybindings.
Some of yours may conflict with bindings I have already programmed
into my window manager.
./tony
Raymond Martin
On March 12, 2011 07:13:52 PM baldwin linguas wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 6:45 PM, laseray <las...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > On the other hand, OmegaT+ reads external TMX as any of the
> >> > versions.
> >
> > Since I am in the postion of superior knowledge about software and
> > apparently TMX, possibly other related issues, it would seem sensible
> > that I know what I am talking about.
>
> Assume much, do we?
Experience dictates...
> > The problem is on your side. Something you are doing wrong, something
> > wrong with formats or character encoding, as a guess.
> >
> > Your repeated statement that it does not work from no fault of yours
> > is built on faulty logic when you consider the facts I have given
> > here.
>
> I found the problem.
> Your program keeps resetting the language parameters.
> The project is Portuguese to English, but your program keeps resetting it
> to EN to EN_GB (wtf? why?).
Don't know. It never happens here and has never been reported by anyone using the program. Who, as I point out again, have no problems.
Here's the thing. OmegaT+ don't need you to use it. You just helped prove that the program works. A bug with your system somehow does not mean that everyone has that bug. It is the first I have heard of it and nobody else has it that I know of.
Try making a project with different locales than what you hve and see if it sticks. It sticks for me when I use it.
Raymond Martin
On March 12, 2011 07:43:56 PM baldwin linguas wrote:
>
> Why generate translation memories separate from generate translations?
> Since one is going to want both, it just seems more efficient to do
> that simultaneously, to me. I'm interested in your reasoning for separating the two.
One does not need the documents generated if they only want the TMX. On a very large project it is a waste of time to generate both to get TMX. On a relatively small project the difference is not obvious, depending on memory used by the program. With many documents it takes a significant time longer.
Generating the documents generates the TMX anyway, but generating the TMX alone is a convenience. It does exactly what the auto save feature does in OT, just manually. So you could ask why OT does not just generate the documents and TMX every time it auto saves the project by your reasoning.
>
> I don't see a binding or menu option for "insert source".
> This is done with ctrl-shift-r in OmegaT (which is used for overwriting
> with the MT offering in +).
> Maybe it's not useful to you because you don't automatically insert
> fuzzy matches?
> I see even 100% matches are not automatically inserted in the target
> segment.
Not yet. You can drag'n drop in OmegaT+.
> Configure segmentation and Configure Document Filters are greyed out in my
> menu. Why?
You don't use them with an open project. You have to reopen a project anyway in OT, so what is the point of being able to use them from an open project?
> I don't understand the logic in having a distinct windowpane showing
> the source text,
> when I can see that in the editing window, anyway.
> It seems redundant. LIkewise the "translation view" pane.
You don't have to. It was the beginning of some changes that are incomplete.
> Also having search and metric etc. all part of the main window by
> default just seems unnecessary.
> Clearly, the user can turn those off, and open them when needed, but
> why include all that
> by default, anyway?
So that people can see them, duh! Else people are going to wondering where they are all the time when they first use the program. After they can turn on/off what they like. The MT view is an exception because when it is open text is being sent online, people may not want that intially (especially with questions of data ownership, so this should not be forced on people).
>
> The little buttons on the left for choosing which match to insert are
> cute, but, I'd much
> prefer not to have to leave the keyboard and grab a mouse to do that.
Who's making you? You have a choice.
> In OmegaT I can simply do Ctrl+Number (ie. for match 2, Ctrl-2) to
> choose, and then
> Ctrl-R to insert it. That's more efficient.
And you can do the same in OmegaT+.
> The more I can use the keyboard to control the program, the better, really.
> Heck, I don't use a desktop environment with all kinds of clicky
> pointy nonsense,
> but simply openbox, without so much as panel, and have added a
> tonelada of keybindings to
> openbox to do stuff I want without having to use a mouse. It is, for
> me, more efficient, thus.
And?
>
> The search function in OmegaT has a lot more configurability/advanced
> search options,
> so far as I can see. Maybe if I read the manual and edit some config
> file to the newest
> xml specification and sacrifice a goat I could get more search options?
Ha, OT has more search options only added recently. OmegaT+ has all the same search options that OT had up until recently. Do you know how to right click?
> OmegaT+ isn't reading my glossaries.
> I imagine you're going to call me a dummy and an idiot and a moron and
> explain that I'm probably
> using the wrong format. Save it.
> No matter. I really don't use glossaries much, anyway.
> If (when) I care enough, I'd read the manual, I suppose.
Yeah, it's you. Not reading a maunal. What are manuals for anyway?
>
> All in all, I just don't see any advantages over OmegaT, as far as
> doing my work.
> You claim to make better use of system resources, if I understand you
> correctly, but, I don't see that. OmegaT+ seems to be using about twice as
> much ram as OmegaT
> routinely does.
You set the memory as you want it in the configuration files used to launch
OmegaT+. If think you are talking about the maximum "possible" memory, not the actual memory in use. You might want to check that.
> I did notice that your .sh script for starting OmegaT+ dictates how
> much ram to use.
> OmegaT doesn't.
Sure, but some of us have looked at this memory issue and figured out some reasonable estimate on what an average/medium size project may involve in terms of segments and TMX sizes.
> Clearly, anyone in the know can alot more or less to
> OmegaT as they wish,> in the same manner you dictate that amount.
Yes, but this way most do not have to. It's nice to think of your users rather than letting them hit the "out of memory" wall often.
> Incidentally, I didn't use your script to start OmegaT+
> I just did java -jar OmegaT+whatever.jar
> It seems to grab enough memory without me telling it how much to use,
> all on its own.
OmegaT+whatever.jar, huh? What version are you using? I haven't used a name for the jar like that going back a number of versions. Do you really have the most recent version installed?
All java programs grab memory. That does not mean that as you work with it you won't end up running out of memory, as we often see people complaining about on the OT users group repeatedly.
I hardly ever have anyone asking me about memory due to the fact that I took the time to estimate some reasonable values to use from the start for a good cross section of projects and computing hardware available.
> At least, for once, I seem to actually be able to translate a document
> with OmegaT+.
> It was fun to play with.
That's what they tell me, after using OmegaT first.
Raymond Martin
On March 12, 2011 07:46:48 PM baldwin linguas wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 6:57 PM, laseray <las...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Actually, in truth, I did it with sed, not a gui text editor.
> >> I did cat the file afterwards to verity that everything had been
> >> replaced, too. My sed skills proved sufficient.
> >> Just your software doesn't.
> >
> > More assumptions about it being impossible for you to be wrong in
> > spite of the fact that many people use OmegaT+ without any problem on
> > all 3 major OS and more.
> >
> > I'm not sure how those people managed to create the localizations for
> > OmegaT+ with it then. They used the program, followed my instructions,
> > and made revisions, sent me the localization. I am in awe of how my
> > clients use OmegaT+ in their professional work for ongoing projects
> > with big companies when it won't function, open a project, or give
> > matches. They are really amazing to just let me give them something
> > that does not work without complaints and then keep me around out of
> > some false loyalty for my bad work.
>
> They were probably just using OmegaT, and not telling you, because you'd
> call them morons and hurt their feelings.
Most had never heard of OmegaT and just used OmegaT+ from the start ;)
So I would not have to call them morons because they were smart enough to use OmegaT+ first and had no problems.
>
> :P
> :
> > When this is finally figured out then it will be clear that there was
> > nothing wrong with program, just something you are messing up that
> > others are not.
>
> I did figure it out.
> See previous message.
> Your program kept insisting on using the wrong language until I manually
> edited the project.xml file.
> Weird. I know.
> Don't blame me. I didn't write the program.
Neither did I according to OmegaT people. So it is probably their code that is fucking up. I just missed it due to all the other bugs I have had to fix in that crap.
Raymond Martin
On March 12, 2011 07:51:51 PM baldwin linguas wrote:
> Ah, wait.
> I see there ARE more search options, just not in the pane in the main
> window. One must click the little search scope icon thingy.
> Cute.
>
> I don't see any "save project".
> I assume "generate translation memories" will do this, but, I just find
> it odd.
You are odd, so no difference.
> One thing that would go a long way with me is to be able to
> reconfigure the keybindings.
> Some of yours may conflict with bindings I have already programmed
> into my window manager.
But you can, of course. Just edit the localization file that corresponds to your system's (what OmegaT+ is running under, in log file/on console output at startup). It contains all the CTRL, SHIFT, etc. It is all in one place and allows people under different locales to configure it differently.
I have gone a long way now, right.
laseray
> > I found the problem.
> > Your program keeps resetting the language parameters.
> > The project is Portuguese to English, but your program keeps resetting it
> > to EN to EN_GB (wtf? why?).
>
> Don't know. It never happens here and has never been reported by anyone using
> the program. Who, as I point out again, have no problems.
except that I do not have TMX with Portugeuse to test against.
laseray
On Mar 12, 6:11 pm, baldwin linguas <baldwinling...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I see the problem now OmegaT only creates TMX 1.1 for the project TMX.
> > You see OmegaT+ is more up-to-date and uses TMX 1.4, as it is sensible
> > to current in these things.
>
> It should be backwards compatible with older formats.
> While OmegaT may only create 1.1, it does read 1.4.
> What kind of idiotic software is going to require the user to
> edit 4 years worth of translation memories so they can be used?
> Even the idiots in Redmond know enough to make their new software
> read their old formats.
1.4 for leagcy TMX, but only 1.4 for the project TMX. And there is
nothing wrong with that at all. First 1.4, is the current standard
(2004), and that is even old. No program should be using 1.1 as some
default.
Next OmegaT has support to upgrade from 1.1 to 1.4 TMX in it already,
so there is no excuse for that same functionality not to upgrade the
project TMX (e.g., when a project is opened). There is no need to keep
it at 1.1, except for they have misinterpreted what these versions
mean.
This is just another instance of dumb programming in OmegaT. They have
the functionality and don't use it to bring things up-to-date.
OmegaT+ does not need to support 1.1 for project TMX because its
versions are directed to new users of CAT tools, not trying to cater
to OmegaT users. No need to be concerned about those types and they
can always just make a quick edit and have it work anyway.
New users want to be current with standards, not relegated to out-of-
date practices.
OmegaT is behind OmegaT+ here, in development and thinking things
through clearly.
laseray
Who is doing what for who here?
Are you doing anything for me or is it I who is doing something for
you?
It is I who is providing you a product/service for free. Yet, you seem
to think that by blatantly slamming my efforts that I should be all
nice to you. Then you turn around and claim that it is I who is
behaving badly when I take offence to this mistreatment.
Go back to your original assertions here and in 2007 about OmegaT+ and
try to see how they are offensive.
You know, if there is a bug in OmegaT+ that causes it to not operate
on your system in the expected way then the appropriate thing to have
done would be to go to the OmegaT+ project/group and report a bug so
that it can be investigated and fixed ASAP. I can accept that the
program can have a bug, all software has bugs and can be improved
continually.
The thing not to do is go on mailing lists/groups and whatnot and make
blatant statements to the effect that it is never works and other
nastiness. That is not going to get you on my good side ever.
Try going to the OmegaT+ group/project and see where others have
reported bugs and gauge my responses. You will see that I am very
helpful to all users that act respectfully towards my efforts to
provide a useful tool. I even fix specific bugs and send individual
users upgrades when I cannot get out a full set of packages soon
enough. I go out of my way for people, when they conduct themselves
appropriately.
Your attitude and responses are not very different from some others on
the OmegaT side. It is all shoot first and ask questions later. A very
accussatory stance without stopping to reflect on the situation.
Act with a civil approach and you will get the same back. That is not
how you started in on this thread. Who cares if you would not bother
with it. That is negativity, which if you were thinking in context you
would have seen is better left unsaid. I could just as easily remarked
that OmegaT has such and such issues, remove it. Or how about
Maxprogram or Okapi stuff, works but not the greatest in certain ways.
So what, it is irrelevant for me to comment so.
A little more thinking before writing would help on your part. Think,
write your problem over at OmegaT+, get assistance to fix it. And if
there really is an issue it can be fixed for the benefit of others
also, not just yourself. Because of your previous attitude it has
taken 4 years for you to finally see that OmegaT+ does work, albeit
with your present caveat.
All things can be resolved if people try to cooperate.
baldwin linguas
> On March 12, 2011 07:43:56 PM baldwin linguas wrote:
>
>>
>> Why generate translation memories separate from generate translations?
>> Since one is going to want both, it just seems more efficient to do
>> that simultaneously, to me. I'm interested in your reasoning for
>> separating the two.
> One does not need the documents generated if they only want the TMX. On a
> very large project it is a waste of time to generate both to get TMX. On a
> relatively small project the difference is not obvious, depending on memory
> used by the program. With many documents it takes a significant time longer.
That makes sense.
>> I don't see a binding or menu option for "insert source".
>> This is done with ctrl-shift-r in OmegaT (which is used for overwriting
>> with the MT offering in +).
>> Maybe it's not useful to you because you don't automatically insert
>> fuzzy matches?
>> I see even 100% matches are not automatically inserted in the target
>> segment.
> Not yet. You can drag'n drop in OmegaT+.
Yeah, but all the pointy-clicky, draggy-droppy stuff is inefficient.
I want to keep my hands on the keyboard.
Keyboard control is essential for efficiency's sake.
Drag-n-drop is very inefficient.
>
>> Configure segmentation and Configure Document Filters are greyed out in my
>
>> menu. Why?
>
> You don't use them with an open project. You have to reopen a project anyway
> in OT, so what is the point of being able to use them from an open project?
What if I want to alter those parameters for the project I have open?
I should be able to do so, then reload (oops, "reopen") the project.
>> I don't understand the logic in having a distinct windowpane showing
>> the source text,
>> when I can see that in the editing window, anyway.
>> It seems redundant. LIkewise the "translation view" pane.
> You don't have to. It was the beginning of some changes that are incomplete.
>> The little buttons on the left for choosing which match to insert are
>> cute, but, I'd much
>> prefer not to have to leave the keyboard and grab a mouse to do that.
>
> Who's making you? You have a choice.
>> In OmegaT I can simply do Ctrl+Number (ie. for match 2, Ctrl-2) to
>>> choose, and then
>>> Ctrl-R to insert it. That's more efficient.
> And you can do the same in OmegaT+.
This is not made clear anywhere in the interface. (Yeah, yeah, I know
Ray, RTFM).
>
>> The more I can use the keyboard to control the program, the better,
>> really.
>> Heck, I don't use a desktop environment with all kinds of clicky
>> pointy nonsense,
>> but simply openbox, without so much as panel, and have added a
>> tonelada of keybindings to
>>> openbox to do stuff I want without having to use a mouse. It is, for
>>> me, more efficient, thus.
> And?
The point being, the more keyboard control available, the less
pointy-clicky stuff required, the better.
>
>>
>>> The search function in OmegaT has a lot more configurability/advanced
>>> search options,
>>> so far as I can see. Maybe if I read the manual and edit some config
>>> file to the newest
>>> xml specification and sacrifice a goat I could get more search options?
>
> Ha, OT has more search options only added recently. OmegaT+ has all the same
> search options that OT had up until recently. Do you know how to right
> click?
I found it in the little magnifying glass icon thingy.
It's odd that there is a search pane in the main window that seems to
offer the most rudimentary
search, and then one must click an icon to get advanced search, but, yeah,
I see that the advanced options are there.
> OmegaT+whatever.jar, huh? What version are you using? I haven't used a name
> for the jar like that going back a number of versions. Do you really have
> the most recent version installed?
I grabbed the latest available on sourceforge
OmegaT+1.0.M3.1-Linux-x86.7z
> All java programs grab memory. That does not mean that as you work with it
> you won't end up running out of memory, as we often see people complaining
> about on the OT users group repeatedly.
>
> I hardly ever have anyone asking me about memory due to the fact that I took
> the time to estimate some reasonable values to use from the start for a good
> cross section of projects and computing hardware available.
> It's nice to think of your users
and call them dummies, morons, idiots...
Yes, indeed.
baldwin linguas
> Here is something you should ponder.
>
> how you started in on this thread. Who cares if you would not bother
> with it.
Ray,
Initially, I voiced an opinion, rather matter-of-factly, that I wouldn't
bother with OmegaT+, because we already have OmegaT.
In an effort to keep the .iso manageable, it doesn't make sense to
have two projects so nearly identical, especially when we already have
the defacto standard in FOSS CAT tools.
That is all.
There was nothing offensive in that, yet, you took offense.
> A little more thinking before writing would help on your part. Think,
> write your problem over at OmegaT+, get assistance to fix it. And if
> there really is an issue it can be fixed for the benefit of others
> also, not just yourself.
But, why take my time to do this, if I already have a tool that works
and am quite satisfied with it?
Ask yourself that.
Nonetheless, to be fair, I took the time to download and test your product,
yet again, even though it failed to work for me in 2007.
In 2007, I did as you asked. We corresponded for several days, yet,
I could not get OmegaT+ to work. (Yet still wrote you a recommendation
on LinkedIN, and even revised it several times at your request).
I did get OmegaT to work, and have been happily using it since.
All the same, currently, I took the time to try your program, again.
I also took the time, despite your insults and mistreatment, to attempt
(and successfully) resolve its failure to function, yet again.
I was rather patient, and very, very fair, even while you were
incorrigibly rude to me.
I think I'll write a review on my blog.
./tony
Raymond Martin
On March 13, 2011 12:21:34 PM baldwin linguas wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 5:15 AM, Raymond Martin <las...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On March 12, 2011 07:43:56 PM baldwin linguas wrote:
> >> Why generate translation memories separate from generate translations?
> >> Since one is going to want both, it just seems more efficient to do
> >> that simultaneously, to me. I'm interested in your reasoning for
> >> separating the two.
> >
> > One does not need the documents generated if they only want the TMX. On
> > a
> > very large project it is a waste of time to generate both to get TMX. On
> > a relatively small project the difference is not obvious, depending on
> > memory used by the program. With many documents it takes a significant
> > time longer.
>
> That makes sense.
Wow. Lots of things make sense about the way I do things once you get your head out of the OmegaT dogma.
> >> Configure segmentation and Configure Document Filters are greyed out
> >> in my
> >>
> >> menu. Why?
> >
> > You don't use them with an open project. You have to reopen a project
> > anyway in OT, so what is the point of being able to use them from an
> > open project?
>
> What if I want to alter those parameters for the project I have open?
> I should be able to do so, then reload (oops, "reopen") the project.
"Reopen" is the sensible term. "Reload" is stupid. Go look at some other software that uses a project like approach. See how many use open/reopen versus load/reload. Again you will know that my choice makes sense.
> >> In OmegaT I can simply do Ctrl+Number (ie. for match 2, Ctrl-2) to
> >>
> >>> choose, and then
> >>> Ctrl-R to insert it. That's more efficient.
> >
> > And you can do the same in OmegaT+.
>
> This is not made clear anywhere in the interface.
You cannot find Ctrl-R in a menu? Then you are blind. It's exactly the same as in OmegaT.
> (Yeah, yeah, I know Ray, RTFM).
So why mention it. Because you cannot think in context. Blabber, blabber, blabber...
RTFM is right. Then you would not be making issues out of what turns out to be laziness on your part. Too lazy to read, too lazy to look in menus, too lazy to right click, too lazy to explore a piece of software you are getting for free, too lazy to think before speaking.
You just want to make issues where there aren't really that many.
> >> The more I can use the keyboard to control the program, the better,
> >> really.
> >> Heck, I don't use a desktop environment with all kinds of clicky
> >> pointy nonsense,
> >> but simply openbox, without so much as panel, and have added a
> >> tonelada of keybindings to
> >>
> >>> openbox to do stuff I want without having to use a mouse. It is, for
> >>> me, more efficient, thus.
> >
> > And?
>
> The point being, the more keyboard control available, the less
> pointy-clicky stuff required, the better.
For you.
Java Swing, you know what the GUI is made with in both OmegaT and OmegaT+ is all about pointy/clicky, as well as keyboard. Perhaps you should look at the Java Swing API or, indeed, the code in OmegaT to see how much is there!
> >>> The search function in OmegaT has a lot more
> >>> configurability/advanced
> >>> search options,
> >>> so far as I can see. Maybe if I read the manual and edit some config
> >>> file to the newest
> >>> xml specification and sacrifice a goat I could get more search
> >>> options?
> >
> > Ha, OT has more search options only added recently. OmegaT+ has all the
> > same search options that OT had up until recently. Do you know how to
> > right click?
>
> I found it in the little magnifying glass icon thingy.
How ridiculous. There is a menuitem called Search..., there is a keyboard shortcut F7 and a tooltabr button (the icon thingy). Three ways to the same thingy!
> It's odd that there is a search pane in the main window that seems to
> offer the most rudimentary search, and then one must click an icon to get advanced search, but, yeah, I see that the advanced options are there.
You have a hard time with software, I can tell. The Search View has exactly the same search options as the external Search Window. Right click on the View. Now that was difficult to figure out, is what you will write next.
> > OmegaT+whatever.jar, huh? What version are you using? I haven't used a
> > name for the jar like that going back a number of versions. Do you
> > really have the most recent version installed?
>
> I grabbed the latest available on sourceforge
> OmegaT+1.0.M3.1-Linux-x86.7z
You should try removing the ./OmegaT+ in your home directory and starting again because I think you might messed somethng up the first time you installed, not sure if that is it.
Since you aren't filing a bug or giving proper details about this problem it is pretty hard to determine where the problem is. I am not on your system and you do not supply anything to test, just like OmegaT developers would ask for. Go can save the "they would do it nicely crap" here, you are very predictable.
> >
> > It's nice to think of your users
>
> and call them dummies, morons, idiots...
> Yes, indeed.
I don't consider YOU a "user", per se. Get that straight first. You are just someone who wants to slam it without having given it a proper try.
Real users actually use the program, then when they have an issue they ask nicely about getting it fixed. They don't go on groups and dissuade others from using it by being negative. Again, I don't need to know that afterwards (once you were called on it) you were encouraging, it is too late at that point. Just another thing you are predictable on.
I assure you, other people are much nicer than you when it comes to being a "user".
Raymond Martin
On March 13, 2011 12:35:15 PM baldwin linguas wrote:
> > A little more thinking before writing would help on your part. Think,
> > write your problem over at OmegaT+, get assistance to fix it. And if
> > there really is an issue it can be fixed for the benefit of others
> > also, not just yourself.
>
> But, why take my time to do this, if I already have a tool that works
> and am quite satisfied with it?
> Ask yourself that.
Why complain about something you are not interested in using, then go about trying to make it work. Seems rather useless. I don't expect you to make sense. It is clear you have an issue doing that. Saying one thing then turning around saying another. Not using it, then using it. Saying you are finished with it then continuing to use it. You do not make sense. Too much left brain thinking will do that to you.
> Nonetheless, to be fair, I took the time to download and test your product,
> yet again, even though it failed to work for me in 2007.
> In 2007, I did as you asked. We corresponded for several days, yet,
> I could not get OmegaT+ to work. (Yet still wrote you a recommendation
> on LinkedIN, and even revised it several times at your request).
> I did get OmegaT to work, and have been happily using it since.
You really do not know when to shut up. I did not ask you for anything. Take away your recommendation. It's not as if it is worth something. Anyway it makes no sense to write that I am an excellent Java programmer (which you have no way of knowing) and then slamming my programming on OmegaT+. It might be that the same skills are applied there, don't you think. Try logic.
This is what I see of you. A person who cannot see the whole picture, just little parts. Then makes grand assumptions based on that insufficient information and blurts out comments and criticisms without considering the consequences. Now you can enter here that I do the same (cause your way of thinking is like seeing a simple program run), the difference being that I am right in my comments and criticisms.
> All the same, currently, I took the time to try your program, again.
> I also took the time, despite your insults and mistreatment, to attempt
> (and successfully) resolve its failure to function, yet again.
> I was rather patient, and very, very fair, even while you were
> incorrigibly rude to me.
>
> I think I'll write a review on my blog.
I have a blog too. You should see some posts I wrote about OmegaT and especially about JC Helary, who tried to pay me to fix OmegaT last year because OmegaT+ worked on Mac OS X better than OmegaT. The whole thing was pretty funny to me, that he actually thought he would manipulate me into providing code for OmegaT. The problem that he wanted fixed is still not completely done
(even after he bougth one of the OmegaT developers a Mac). He blames the issue on Apple now.
No problem in OmegaT+ though.
I put those entries up there as a record of the bullshit that comes from OmegaT towards me.
See: http://omegatplus-devel.blogspot.com
P.S. not for the faint of heart or dogmatic, biased OmegaT zealot fanboys.
You might also want to do some work on your website while you are at it. It is a hodge-podge mess. Does not look very professional at all. Maybe a new style sheet or something will help. You can find a link to some free ones from my pages.
Jean-Christophe Helary
> I have a blog too. You should see some posts I wrote about OmegaT and
> especially about JC Helary, who tried to pay me to fix OmegaT last year because
> OmegaT+ worked on Mac OS X better than OmegaT. The whole thing was pretty
> funny to me, that he actually thought he would manipulate me into providing
> code for OmegaT. The problem that he wanted fixed is still not completely done
> (even after he bougth one of the OmegaT developers a Mac). He blames the issue
> on Apple now.
half of 2010 and included a major rewrite of the RTL/LTR languages
handling:
http://omegat.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/omegat/trunk/release/changes.txt?revision=3458&view=markup
2) When Apple released Snow Leopard (OSX 10.6) a few months later in
August 2010 it came with Java 1.6 installed by default and removed
Java 1.5.
3) Java 1.6 includes a bug related to RTL languages marks handling.
The bug is registered on then Sun and now Oracle's bugs DB.
http://lists.apple.com/archives/java-dev/2010/Dec/msg00110.html
4) The bug slows down software that uses such marks, including OmegaT
that started to use them with 2.0 but the slowness was much more acute
on Mac as the main developer measured, after getting the Mac the user
community bought for him. In fact, the bug's effect on Windows/Linux
machines is almost not noticeable in OmegaT (although not in other
programs that use such RTL marks).
5) The bug is not present in Java 1.5 and OmegaT works perfectly well
even with the new RTL handling code on Mac machines that come with
Java 1.5 installed (ie pre-Snow Leopard machines).
6) The developer then created a workaround where RTL/LTR marks are not
used for LTR language pairs. Thus the situation is fixed for language
pairs that involve 2 LTR languages but not for pairs that involve at
least one RTL language, on Mac machines that use Snow Leopard
exclusively.
7) As long as Oracle does not fix that issue, OmegaT will show that
slow behavior when it comes to RTL languages exclusively on Mac
machines that use Snow Leopard. Windows and Linux that run Java 1.6
still manage to handle project fast enough. Machines that use Java 1.5
(including Mac machines that run Leopard or when users have installed
Java 1.5 on their Snow Leopard machine) show no problem whatsoever.
8) OmegaT+'s "author" also wrote about me in his latest "development"
post:
http://omegatplus-devel.blogspot.com/2010/07/omegats-sad-clown-narcissist-is-troll.html
"Further, to try to show how relevant he is he actually made a
statement about Java 6 performance that would indicate he believes it
must be worse than in Java 5. Talk about extreme thinking. When things
do not work for you then everything must be bad. The faults causing
your problems could not possibly rest with you, OmegaT, or other
people associated with it. Blame Apple development, that makes sense,
if you are a narcissist!
One little problem going from Java 5 to Java 6 with OmegaT and it is
everyone else's fault.
That is a very narrow and negative viewpoint. Altogether not
surprising due to who it is coming from."
Further investigation proved that indeed, Java 1.6 was the cause of
the problem on recent Mac machines even though OmegaT+'s "author"
still pretends today in the mail to which I am replying that it has
nothing to do with Apple but with OmegaT's code... How is that
called ? Delusion ?
He also pretended on MacLingua that he was able to fix that for money
in no time, I proposed to pay him and then he refused...
> No problem in OmegaT+ though.
never dealt with the complexity of RTL languages layout in the first
place. That's the problem with "sugar coating" development. It is easy
to address superficial issues but complex ones require way more than
bad mouthing and posturing.
> I put those entries up there as a record of the bullshit that comes from
> OmegaT towards me.
>
> See:http://omegatplus-devel.blogspot.com
Maybe OmegaT+'s "author" should start considering software development
as an activity by professionals and for professionals and not as some
sort of Jungian psychological catharsis. Because it is highly unlikely
that his stars will tell him how and why his code won't function when
he starts to address RTL handling:
http://discoursebyr.blogspot.com/2010/08/does-astrology-work.html
"Overall, I will look to astrology from time to time to see if it is
on target at all. To see if I am moving towards or really living those
positive tendencies and compensating for or eradicating the negative
ones. Used as such then astrology does work. It works as one tool
towards personal development given a clear understanding of how it
does and does not function."
Indeed...
Jean-Christophe Helary
Raymond Martin
On March 17, 2011 12:25:17 AM Jean-Christophe Helary wrote:
> On Mar 14, 8:48 am, Raymond Martin <lase...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> 3) Java 1.6 includes a bug related to RTL languages marks handling.
> The bug is registered on then Sun and now Oracle's bugs DB.
>
> http://lists.apple.com/archives/java-dev/2010/Dec/msg00110.html
All you really need to know is that OmegaT developers have not made a workaround for an issue. That is what other developers do when they have a
problem with something in Java. Well, the good ones anyway.
That is why there is a section on any Oracle reporting page entitled "Workarounds".
You'll also note that someone over at Oracle does not think this issue is a defect and has marked it as closed, if you follow one of those links.