Reading #5, Question #2
6 views
Skip to first unread message
Hannah Baran (Louisa HS)
Feb 8, 2011, 2:51:24 PM2/8/11
to The Things They Carried discussion, spring 2011 (green)
"For a long while the girl gazed down at Fossie, almost blankly, and
in the candlelight her face had the composure of someone perfectly at
peace with herself. It took a few seconds, Rat said, to appreciate
the full change. In part it was her eyes: utterly flat and
indifferent. There was no emotion in her stare, no sense of the
person behind it. But the grotesque part, he said, was her jewelry.
At the girl's throat was a necklace of human tongues. Elongated and
narrow, like pieces of blackened leather, the tongues were threaded
along a length of copper wire, one overlapping the next, the tips
curled upward as if caught in a final shrill syllable" (O'Brien
110-11).
This is one of my favorite passages in the book, and I'm curious to
know what you make of it. What is the meaning of this detail, created
very intentionally by O'Brien (the author)? What is the importance of
tongues?
in the candlelight her face had the composure of someone perfectly at
peace with herself. It took a few seconds, Rat said, to appreciate
the full change. In part it was her eyes: utterly flat and
indifferent. There was no emotion in her stare, no sense of the
person behind it. But the grotesque part, he said, was her jewelry.
At the girl's throat was a necklace of human tongues. Elongated and
narrow, like pieces of blackened leather, the tongues were threaded
along a length of copper wire, one overlapping the next, the tips
curled upward as if caught in a final shrill syllable" (O'Brien
110-11).
This is one of my favorite passages in the book, and I'm curious to
know what you make of it. What is the meaning of this detail, created
very intentionally by O'Brien (the author)? What is the importance of
tongues?
Ashton Trice
Feb 9, 2011, 8:00:56 PM2/9/11
to The Things They Carried discussion, spring 2011 (green)
Interesting question Ms. Baran!
When I read this passage in the book, I was intrigued by it. The
dramatic change in Mary Anne from the beginning of the story, to the
girl wearing the tongue necklace gave me an eerie feeling. I think
that the tongues on Mary Anne’s necklace can symbolize a lot of
things. The tongues represent the foreign tongue that Mary Anne chants
in. Mark Fossie overhears chanting from the Special Forces area in a
language he doesn’t recognize, but instantly knows it is Mary Anne.
When Fossie approaches Mary Anne, she says, “There’s no sense talking.
I know what you think, but it’s not… it’s not bad. You’re in a place
where you don’t belong” (O’Brien 106). The tongues can represent Mary
Anne’s connection to the war. She was so mesmerized about war, that
she couldn’t find the words to explain to Fossie how she felt. She
says, “Sometimes I want to eat this place. The whole country-the dirt,
the death-I just want to swallow it and have it there inside
me” (O’Brien 106). Mary Anne loses her innocence in the war and loses
herself all together.
On Feb 8, 2:51 pm, "Hannah Baran (Louisa HS)" <hannah.ka...@gmail.com>
wrote:
When I read this passage in the book, I was intrigued by it. The
dramatic change in Mary Anne from the beginning of the story, to the
girl wearing the tongue necklace gave me an eerie feeling. I think
that the tongues on Mary Anne’s necklace can symbolize a lot of
things. The tongues represent the foreign tongue that Mary Anne chants
in. Mark Fossie overhears chanting from the Special Forces area in a
language he doesn’t recognize, but instantly knows it is Mary Anne.
When Fossie approaches Mary Anne, she says, “There’s no sense talking.
I know what you think, but it’s not… it’s not bad. You’re in a place
where you don’t belong” (O’Brien 106). The tongues can represent Mary
Anne’s connection to the war. She was so mesmerized about war, that
she couldn’t find the words to explain to Fossie how she felt. She
says, “Sometimes I want to eat this place. The whole country-the dirt,
the death-I just want to swallow it and have it there inside
me” (O’Brien 106). Mary Anne loses her innocence in the war and loses
herself all together.
On Feb 8, 2:51 pm, "Hannah Baran (Louisa HS)" <hannah.ka...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Jason Guy
Feb 9, 2011, 8:47:10 PM2/9/11
to The Things They Carried discussion, spring 2011 (green)
I have to agree with you Mrs. Baran, this is also one of my favorite
passages from the book. I really enjoyed this passage because it was
hard to predict how it was going to end. When first introduced into
the story, Mary Anne is a sweet, young, and innocent girl. Three
weeks later, Vietnam had dramatically changed her, just like almost
every other soldier. O'Brien in the end describes Mary Anne as almost
being possessed, having lost all sense of emotion and being completely
at peace with herself. I believe the most important detail, the
tongue necklace, most significantly symbolizes the silence which
overtook Mary Anne when she disappeared into the jungle. The previous
owners were silenced by the loss of their tongues, and now Mary Anne
wears them around her neck as a reminder that, "There is no sense
talking" (O’Brien 106).
> > tongues?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
passages from the book. I really enjoyed this passage because it was
hard to predict how it was going to end. When first introduced into
the story, Mary Anne is a sweet, young, and innocent girl. Three
weeks later, Vietnam had dramatically changed her, just like almost
every other soldier. O'Brien in the end describes Mary Anne as almost
being possessed, having lost all sense of emotion and being completely
at peace with herself. I believe the most important detail, the
tongue necklace, most significantly symbolizes the silence which
overtook Mary Anne when she disappeared into the jungle. The previous
owners were silenced by the loss of their tongues, and now Mary Anne
wears them around her neck as a reminder that, "There is no sense
talking" (O’Brien 106).
>
> - Show quoted text -
Abigail Seay
Feb 9, 2011, 11:36:50 PM2/9/11
to tttc20...@googlegroups.com
Interesting point, Jason. I think that the details signify the change in Mary Anne. War changes people to do things that they never expect themselves to do. If you had told young Mary Anne that she would wear a necklace of tongues on a copper wire after she went to war, I doubt that she would have believed you. Being at war and experiencing the gruesome lifestyle of the country made this acceptable to her. I think that the tongues also symbolize how the soldiers don't have a voice there, the tongues are described as "one overlapping the next" (O'Brien 106). They also symbolize how the soldiers passed away very early in their lives, "as if caught in a final shrill syllable" (O'Brien 106).
Kierra W.
Feb 10, 2011, 12:08:03 AM2/10/11
to The Things They Carried discussion, spring 2011 (green)
I must say that Jason and Abbey made an interesting point as to
connecting the tongues on the necklace to the silence of the soldiers.
Personally I believe the whole scene between Fossie and Mary is to
represent the dramatic change in Mary from being seen as innocent as
opposed to being seen as a craven animal. The tongues worn on the
necklace Mary Anne has around her neck and her “composure of someone
perfectly at peace with herself…” (O’Brien 105) clashes with her
innocent looking clothing and gives the reader a sense of acceptance.
Mary Anne most likely always had a part of her that was intrigued in
war and tactics but she was never put into a situation in which she
could truly experience it and once she had she didn’t want to let that
part of her go, since it filled a missing part of her. While the
“old” Mary seemed to have been corrupted by the war in the eyes’ of
Fossie, Rat realized that maybe she wasn’t all innocent and like some
of the men in the war became addicted to the way of life that came
from war and the thrill of missions with the possibility of death at
any moment. She was taking a chance by doing something and knowing
that she might not survive it, but that was a part of the rush that
kept her wanting more and eventually engulfed her to the point where
she was no longer the innocent girl straight from high school but a
strong women that was a part of the forrest.
connecting the tongues on the necklace to the silence of the soldiers.
Personally I believe the whole scene between Fossie and Mary is to
represent the dramatic change in Mary from being seen as innocent as
opposed to being seen as a craven animal. The tongues worn on the
necklace Mary Anne has around her neck and her “composure of someone
perfectly at peace with herself…” (O’Brien 105) clashes with her
innocent looking clothing and gives the reader a sense of acceptance.
Mary Anne most likely always had a part of her that was intrigued in
war and tactics but she was never put into a situation in which she
could truly experience it and once she had she didn’t want to let that
part of her go, since it filled a missing part of her. While the
“old” Mary seemed to have been corrupted by the war in the eyes’ of
Fossie, Rat realized that maybe she wasn’t all innocent and like some
of the men in the war became addicted to the way of life that came
from war and the thrill of missions with the possibility of death at
any moment. She was taking a chance by doing something and knowing
that she might not survive it, but that was a part of the rush that
kept her wanting more and eventually engulfed her to the point where
she was no longer the innocent girl straight from high school but a
strong women that was a part of the forrest.
Lakey
Feb 10, 2011, 10:45:34 AM2/10/11
to The Things They Carried discussion, spring 2011 (green)
I agree with Kierra, that the tongues are telllings us that she has
become a different person now. She has been taken over by the war,
and is living every part of it from cruelty to the peace. The tongues
show how the war has taken over her mind. She is thinking
differently; she isn't the pretty, innocent girl any more. She is a
killer and she loves her work. She can't stop going out on missions
and becoming one with the jungle. She has to do it over and over
again because she can't get enough. Mary Anne shows this when she
says "Sometimes I want to eat this place. The whole country --- the
dirt, the earth --- I just want to swallow it and have it there inside
me" (O'Brien 106). Mary Anne somehow love the war and loves being
there, despite the danger and atrocities. She tells Fossie how when
she is out on a mission "It's like I'm full of electricity and I'm
glowing in the dark --- I'm on fire almost" (O'Brien). She seems to
be extremely excited when she is out at night waiting to ambush. The
war has brought out a crueler, deadlier side to Mary Anne that Fossie
never expected to see.
become a different person now. She has been taken over by the war,
and is living every part of it from cruelty to the peace. The tongues
show how the war has taken over her mind. She is thinking
differently; she isn't the pretty, innocent girl any more. She is a
killer and she loves her work. She can't stop going out on missions
and becoming one with the jungle. She has to do it over and over
again because she can't get enough. Mary Anne shows this when she
says "Sometimes I want to eat this place. The whole country --- the
dirt, the earth --- I just want to swallow it and have it there inside
me" (O'Brien 106). Mary Anne somehow love the war and loves being
there, despite the danger and atrocities. She tells Fossie how when
she is out on a mission "It's like I'm full of electricity and I'm
glowing in the dark --- I'm on fire almost" (O'Brien). She seems to
be extremely excited when she is out at night waiting to ambush. The
war has brought out a crueler, deadlier side to Mary Anne that Fossie
never expected to see.
Virginia
Feb 10, 2011, 11:22:12 PM2/10/11
to The Things They Carried discussion, spring 2011 (green)
I agree with the thoughts that many of you have brought up in this
discussion. The idea that Mary Anne has undergone a drastic
transformation from innocence into corruption is quite evident
throughout the story; this passage just exaggerates the extent of the
corruption to which she has fallen prey to. In my opinion, the
symbolic meaning behind the necklace of tongues is representative of
the revolution within herself. I'd like to bring up a point that Abbey
made, regarding the line "the tips curled upward as if caught in a
final shrill syllable" (O'Brien 106). Through my interpretation of the
reading, this line gives an extra detail of Mary Anne's necklace. Not
only is it representative of her transformation, but it is also
symbolic of lives cut short in Vietnam. In Mary Anne's case, the life
that was cut short was her life of innocence. In retrospect, I believe
the idea behind mentioning the necklace was to show how Mary Anne's
pure and naive life was put to an end upon ensconcing herself in
Vietnam. Rat states later on in the same setting, "She's already
gone" (O'Brien 107). Again, this line supports the idea that her life
of inexperience and innocence has been put to an end.
discussion. The idea that Mary Anne has undergone a drastic
transformation from innocence into corruption is quite evident
throughout the story; this passage just exaggerates the extent of the
corruption to which she has fallen prey to. In my opinion, the
symbolic meaning behind the necklace of tongues is representative of
the revolution within herself. I'd like to bring up a point that Abbey
made, regarding the line "the tips curled upward as if caught in a
final shrill syllable" (O'Brien 106). Through my interpretation of the
reading, this line gives an extra detail of Mary Anne's necklace. Not
only is it representative of her transformation, but it is also
symbolic of lives cut short in Vietnam. In Mary Anne's case, the life
that was cut short was her life of innocence. In retrospect, I believe
the idea behind mentioning the necklace was to show how Mary Anne's
pure and naive life was put to an end upon ensconcing herself in
Vietnam. Rat states later on in the same setting, "She's already
gone" (O'Brien 107). Again, this line supports the idea that her life
of inexperience and innocence has been put to an end.
Kelly Candeto
Feb 11, 2011, 12:18:11 AM2/11/11
to The Things They Carried discussion, spring 2011 (green)
Good question, Mrs. Baran!
I feel that the reason O'Brien goes into such detail to describe Mary
Anne after her time out on ambush was to emphasize the drastic change
in her character and appearance. When Mary Anne first came she was
described as a bubbly, friendly, happy-go-lucky type of person. She
could find the good in almost any situation, and the fact that she was
at a war camp didn't seem to even phase her. Little by little though,
she gets sucked into the war, she sneaks out to go on ambush and when
she comes back, the effects of the war are extremely evident. She's
completely changed, but she doesn't hate it. "I get scared sometimes
-- lots of times -- but it's not bad. You know? I feel close to
myself." (O'Brien 106). Maybe O'Brien was trying to show us how it
feels to be at war. He uses a woman so that she's more relatable to
those who haven't been at war. By describing her as someone who looks
like some sort of tribal warrior after she comes back from being on
ambush, he tries to show us how the men feel after being at war. It's
like this unknown side of them has been revealed: a warrior-like,
gruesome side. But, it's not a bad side, necessarily. It's a side
that's necessary for them to have in order to be able to go to war -
to fight and to kill.
I feel that the reason O'Brien goes into such detail to describe Mary
Anne after her time out on ambush was to emphasize the drastic change
in her character and appearance. When Mary Anne first came she was
described as a bubbly, friendly, happy-go-lucky type of person. She
could find the good in almost any situation, and the fact that she was
at a war camp didn't seem to even phase her. Little by little though,
she gets sucked into the war, she sneaks out to go on ambush and when
she comes back, the effects of the war are extremely evident. She's
completely changed, but she doesn't hate it. "I get scared sometimes
-- lots of times -- but it's not bad. You know? I feel close to
myself." (O'Brien 106). Maybe O'Brien was trying to show us how it
feels to be at war. He uses a woman so that she's more relatable to
those who haven't been at war. By describing her as someone who looks
like some sort of tribal warrior after she comes back from being on
ambush, he tries to show us how the men feel after being at war. It's
like this unknown side of them has been revealed: a warrior-like,
gruesome side. But, it's not a bad side, necessarily. It's a side
that's necessary for them to have in order to be able to go to war -
to fight and to kill.
Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages