Reading #11, Question #1

[Ashton Trice]

What is the significance of the soldiers’ interactions with the dead?
Why do soldiers find comfort in talking to the dead, or more
specifically joke around with the deceased?

[Jonathan Jackowicz]

Thats a good question Ashton. I believe that talking to the dead makes
it seem like they are never really gone. Like when O'Brien's close
friend, Lavender, died. Lavender was always asked how the war was, and
each day he always replied "Mellow". After Lavender gets shot Mitchel
Sanders starts talking. " 'Hey, Lavender,' he said, 'how's the war
today?' There was a short quiet. 'Mellow,' somebody said"(219). Even
though Lavender died they created a conversation that involved him so
that he would never be forgotten by the troops.

[Raymond]

I agree with Jonathan. The way the soldiers talked or joked with the
deceased kept them alive but I think the soldiers talked or joked with
the corpses because it made the coping with what they witnessed easier
to handle. It was easier for them to deal with their friend dying when
they didn't consider them dead. "'Be polite now,' he said. 'Go
introduce yourself. Nothing to be afraid about, just a nice old man.
Show a little respect for your elders.' 'No way.' 'Maybe it's too real
for you?' 'That's right,' I said. 'Way too real.'" (214). By
pretending that the deceased weren't really dead, they could cope
easier. They didn't have to think about their friend being dead.

[Ian McKay]

I agree with both Jonathan and Raymond.

The soldiers talked to the dead and joked around with them to make
themselves feel better about the people dying. They talked to the dead
in a sense that they were actually conversating with the deceased
person; they talked to the dead this way to hypnotize their own minds
into believing the dead were still alive. "Hey Lavender," he said,

"how's the war today?" There was a short quiet. "Mellow," somebody

said (O'Brien 219). The soldiers were talking as Ted Lavender as a way
to make it seem like he wasn't really dead so they could cope with the
grief, almost as their stage of denial. The soldiers joked around with
the dead to try to laugh off the guilt they felt. "Dave Jensen went
over over and shook the old man's hand. "How-dee-doo," he said" (214).
The soldiers would mess with the dead to allow themselves to deal with
the sorrow and guilt of killing them; they would make jokes and laugh
to avoid feeling the pain and grief and to make the dead seem like not
a big deal or like it never even happened.

> > specifically joke around with the deceased?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Logan Torgerson]

Jonathon, Raymond, and Ian all make really great points. Interacting
with the dead makes everything seem normal, so therefore the soldiers
could pretend that their fellow soldiers were not actually dead. For
example, when Tim's childhood friend Linda died, he imagined an
interaction with her after trying to plead with her to come back to
life. "I remember closing my eyes and whispering her name, almost
begging, trying to make her come back." (O'Brien 225). Talking to the
deceased brings the soldiers comfort because its almost like they are
tricking their brains into thinking the person isn't gone forever and
that they will see them again someday.

> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[Jessica]

I agree with Jonathon, Raymond, Ian and Logan. I think that when the
soldiers joke around with each other about the dead, it eases the
tension and the guilt they are feeling. When they pretend that the
soldiers aren't really dead it helps them to continue on as if nothing
out of the ordinary had happened. "In Vietnam, too, we had ways of
making the dead seem not quite so dead. Shaking hands, that was one
way. By slighting death, by acting, we pretended it was not the
terrible thing it was," (O'Brien 225-226). The soldiers would shake
the dead peoples' hands and make comments about them to make it seem
as if they were still alive. By doing this, they found comfort because
they imagined that the people were still alive.

On Feb 27, 5:53 pm, Logan Torgerson <ltorger...@brvgs.k12.va.us>
wrote:

[Lindsay Padgett]

That's a really good question Ashton and I agree with  the points that all of you have made here. I agree that the reason that the soldiers interacted with the dead so much was because they intended to make it seem like the deceased were really still alive. It had to have been hard for the soldiers to see people die right in front of them and even harder when it was someone they had really cared about, like Kiowa or Ted Lavender. Even when the death of their friends occured they joked around about them dying which also seemed to ease the hurt they were feeling at the time. O'Brien mentions how when he first came to Vietnam how weird he thought it was that many of the soldiers talked to the dead civilians and soldiers. " I couldn't do it. A mental block or something...I don't know, just creepy." (O'Brien 215) O'Brien soon realized after being in Vietnam for a while, that the reason the soldiers joked about the death of others was because it was their way of coping with all the emotions they were feeling, of losing someone they knew and maybe someone they had never even laid eyes on before.

[Brianna]

Good question Ashton. The significance of the soldiers' interactions
with the dead is to basically keep them from feeling bad about
themselves. People can take it pretty hard when they see someone die
or when they kill someone. The soldiers grieve a different way then
most people would by talking to them. "Rat Kiley bent over the
corpse."Gimme five," he said. "A real honor." They acted like this
towards the dead in order to keep a steady head at all times.

On Feb 23, 7:52 pm, Ashton Trice <tric...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Jason Guy]

I agree with everyone who has responded before me. The soldiers joke
about, and interact with the dead, not offensively, as a way of coping
with death. For people that the soldiers don't know, normally being
Vietnamese villagers such as the old man in the bombed village, they
settle for actually interacting with the dead. The soldiers shake
hands and sometimes talk to them, "At one point, I remember, they sat
the body up against a fence. They crossed his legs and talked to
him" (O'Brien 214). This way, after they leave the village and the
soldiers think back, the dead people who they had talked to almost
seem alive. The soldiers act a little different when it’s a fellow
platoon mate. They normally make fun of how he died and make jokes
that relate to the person dead. This helps keep their mind off the
actual death until the chopper comes for the dust off. Having the
helicopters take the dead away rather than burying the soldiers also
helps because there is no closure, no finalization. It just seems as
if the soldier is leaving.

On Feb 27, 8:15 pm, Lindsay Padgett <linds.m.padg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> That's a really good question Ashton and I agree with  the points that all
> of you have made here. I agree that the reason that the soldiers interacted
> with the dead so much was because they intended to make it seem like the
> deceased were really still alive. It had to have been hard for the soldiers
> to see people die right in front of them and even harder when it was someone
> they had really cared about, like Kiowa or Ted Lavender. Even when the death
> of their friends occured they joked around about them dying which also
> seemed to ease the hurt they were feeling at the time. O'Brien mentions how
> when he first came to Vietnam how weird he thought it was that many of the
> soldiers talked to the dead civilians and soldiers. " I couldn't do it. A
> mental block or something...I don't know, just creepy." (O'Brien 215)
> O'Brien soon realized after being in Vietnam for a while, that the reason
> the soldiers joked about the death of others was because it was their way of
> coping with all the emotions they were feeling, of losing someone they knew
> and maybe someone they had never even laid eyes on before.
>

[Meagan]

That's an interesting question to discuss, Ashton. Everyone made good
points; however, Ashton didn't specifically ask for the coordination
between soldiers and their fallen friends, but to the dead in
general. For that reason, I have to say I disagree with you all
because the soldiers certainly aren't looking to keep memories alive
of every deceased character. Still, I think they joke around with the
dead as a means of coping with death itself. They are all aware that
death in Vietnam is tangible and they're scared, so when actual death
occurs, they need to find a way to lighten the situation. "I learned
that words make a difference. It's easier to cope with a kicked
bucket than a corpse; if it isn't human, it doesn't matter much if
it's dead" (O'Brien 226). Soldiers shook the corpses' hands, used
alternative sayings to describe death and made up nicknames for
different types of death as ways to deal with the otherwise
seriousness of death in 'Nam.

On Feb 23, 7:52 pm, Ashton Trice <tric...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Virginia]

I like your position on this question, Meagan; and I have to say that
I agree with you. The death of their fellow soldiers was not the only
death they encountered. This being said, not only did the soldiers
have to ignore, in a sense, the death of their friends, but they also
had to 'ignore' the common death of the Vietnamese around them. Being
that the soldiers encountered death on a daily basis, they found
solace in speaking to them as a means of lightening the harsh or
somber tone that one might find if they were foreign to death. But,
because it was different for the soldiers, they made up informal
techniques to lessen or ease the reality of death. Sometimes they
would touch the dead while in conversations, or they would "s[i]t the
body up against a fence, cross his legs and talk to him" (O'Brien
214). Whatever 'method' they chose, the true intention of speaking to
the dead was to ease the cruel realism of it.