Reading #9, Question #3
1 view
Skip to first unread message
Hannah Baran (Louisa HS)
Feb 23, 2011, 10:20:34 AM2/23/11
to The Things They Carried discussion, spring 2011 (green)
This is Lindsey's question:
Why do you think that after all the job positions that Norman Bowker
took years after returning from war, that he couldn't find anything
that seemed to interest him?
Why do you think that after all the job positions that Norman Bowker
took years after returning from war, that he couldn't find anything
that seemed to interest him?
Hannah Baran (Louisa HS)
Feb 23, 2011, 10:23:10 AM2/23/11
to The Things They Carried discussion, spring 2011 (green)
This is Abbey's response:
I agree, Emily. Bowker is used to the routine of war and nothing else
appears right to him. During the training that he would have received
before the war, Bowker is taught to think and act like a soldier.
When he
gets back to his home country, thinking and acting like a soldier
isn't
sufficient for regular jobs. Bowker's training led him to want to act
like
a soldier at home, causing, "the problem of finding a meaningful use
for his
life after the war" (O'Brien 149). The soldier mentality that has
been
hammered into Bowker's brain keeps him from having his old interests
and
living like before he went to war.
On Feb 23, 10:20 am, "Hannah Baran (Louisa HS)"
I agree, Emily. Bowker is used to the routine of war and nothing else
appears right to him. During the training that he would have received
before the war, Bowker is taught to think and act like a soldier.
When he
gets back to his home country, thinking and acting like a soldier
isn't
sufficient for regular jobs. Bowker's training led him to want to act
like
a soldier at home, causing, "the problem of finding a meaningful use
for his
life after the war" (O'Brien 149). The soldier mentality that has
been
hammered into Bowker's brain keeps him from having his old interests
and
living like before he went to war.
On Feb 23, 10:20 am, "Hannah Baran (Louisa HS)"
Hannah Baran (Louisa HS)
Feb 23, 2011, 10:22:01 AM2/23/11
to The Things They Carried discussion, spring 2011 (green)
This is Emily's response:
That's a great question, Lindsay. I think that Norman Bowker couldn't
find any job that suited him after the war because he had created a
routine for himself at war. He was so used to people always telling
him what to do, when to do it, and how to do it, that he lost sight of
how life back home is supposed to work. He also had become so used to
the difficult and hard life in Vietnam, that life back home in Iowa
was boring and dull. He got tired of jobs quickly, probably because he
he understood that life at war was a terrible sight. This is infered
from the statement O'Brien makes, saying, "At one point he had
enrolled in the junior college in his hometown, but the course work,
he said, seemed too abstract, too distant, with nothing real or
tangible at stake, certainly not the stakes of war" (O'Brien 149). He
had experienced it all, and just the idea that people around him were
functioning normally bothered him. He wanted to feel normal, but he
failed to find relief from the war in any jobs he tried, so he moved
on after less than 10 weeks.
That's a great question, Lindsay. I think that Norman Bowker couldn't
find any job that suited him after the war because he had created a
routine for himself at war. He was so used to people always telling
him what to do, when to do it, and how to do it, that he lost sight of
how life back home is supposed to work. He also had become so used to
the difficult and hard life in Vietnam, that life back home in Iowa
was boring and dull. He got tired of jobs quickly, probably because he
he understood that life at war was a terrible sight. This is infered
from the statement O'Brien makes, saying, "At one point he had
enrolled in the junior college in his hometown, but the course work,
he said, seemed too abstract, too distant, with nothing real or
tangible at stake, certainly not the stakes of war" (O'Brien 149). He
had experienced it all, and just the idea that people around him were
functioning normally bothered him. He wanted to feel normal, but he
failed to find relief from the war in any jobs he tried, so he moved
on after less than 10 weeks.
Moria
Feb 23, 2011, 7:04:27 PM2/23/11
to The Things They Carried discussion, spring 2011 (green)
Emily and Abbey both make great points, but I'd have to disagree with
them. While Bowker did get used to his constant routine of the war,
it was more the fact that nothing could compare to what he felt while
serving his time in Vietnam. As he stated in his letter to O'Brien,
"It's almost like I got killed over in Nam...Hard to describe. That
night when Kiowa got wasted, I sort of sank down into the sewage with
him...Feels like I'm still in deep..."(O'Brien 150). The war was such
a big and important moment in his life. It was the toughest thing he
would ever have to live through and after making it out alive, he felt
like nothing else could ever compare to what he experienced while in
country. Having to deal with the death of a friend, Kiowa in Bowker's
case, and the possibility of saving him is something that can truly
alter someones life. In Bowker's case, I believe it took such a toll
on him that he seemed to leave his heart in Vietnam and there was
nothing back in America that could strike his interest or make him
forget about what happened during his time as a soldier.
them. While Bowker did get used to his constant routine of the war,
it was more the fact that nothing could compare to what he felt while
serving his time in Vietnam. As he stated in his letter to O'Brien,
"It's almost like I got killed over in Nam...Hard to describe. That
night when Kiowa got wasted, I sort of sank down into the sewage with
him...Feels like I'm still in deep..."(O'Brien 150). The war was such
a big and important moment in his life. It was the toughest thing he
would ever have to live through and after making it out alive, he felt
like nothing else could ever compare to what he experienced while in
country. Having to deal with the death of a friend, Kiowa in Bowker's
case, and the possibility of saving him is something that can truly
alter someones life. In Bowker's case, I believe it took such a toll
on him that he seemed to leave his heart in Vietnam and there was
nothing back in America that could strike his interest or make him
forget about what happened during his time as a soldier.
Ralph Recto
Feb 23, 2011, 8:08:07 PM2/23/11
to The Things They Carried discussion, spring 2011 (green)
I agree with Moria. Vietnam was the event that shaped Bowker's life,
the event that defined every moment of his life after. I don't
necessarily agree with Emily that it was due to having fallen to a
routine during the war and failing to break the dependency on it that
Bowker was pushed to suicide. While it may have contributed to the
disillusioned state of mind that he stayed in upon returning home, I
believe that he was disillusioned with the meaninglessness of civilian
existence. In war, the immediate goal of a soldier - staying alive -
is always evident, and the fight to do so is unrelenting and
unforgiving. There is no such thing in small town American life. As
Bowker's letter to O'Brien says, he had the problem of "finding a
meaningful use for his life after the war", having jumped from one
relatively cushy job to another, but finding none that suited him
(149). It was comfort that killed Bowker, for Vietnam shaped his
existence into survival mode so thoroughly that suburban life could
not undo it, as if the deluge of anxieties from the war had pushed him
to a primality that he could stand up from. Civilian life was simply
could not convince himself that the reality of human existence was
back home, in safety and peace, and not in the carnage of war.
the event that defined every moment of his life after. I don't
necessarily agree with Emily that it was due to having fallen to a
routine during the war and failing to break the dependency on it that
Bowker was pushed to suicide. While it may have contributed to the
disillusioned state of mind that he stayed in upon returning home, I
believe that he was disillusioned with the meaninglessness of civilian
existence. In war, the immediate goal of a soldier - staying alive -
is always evident, and the fight to do so is unrelenting and
unforgiving. There is no such thing in small town American life. As
Bowker's letter to O'Brien says, he had the problem of "finding a
meaningful use for his life after the war", having jumped from one
relatively cushy job to another, but finding none that suited him
(149). It was comfort that killed Bowker, for Vietnam shaped his
existence into survival mode so thoroughly that suburban life could
not undo it, as if the deluge of anxieties from the war had pushed him
to a primality that he could stand up from. Civilian life was simply
"too abstract, too distant, with nothing real or tangible at stake,
certainly not the stakes of a war" for Bowker to return to (149). He
could not convince himself that the reality of human existence was
back home, in safety and peace, and not in the carnage of war.
Jessica
Feb 23, 2011, 8:23:43 PM2/23/11
to The Things They Carried discussion, spring 2011 (green)
I agree with Emily. I think that the war routine was so engrained in
his mind that once Bowker returned home nothing seemed quite right,
because none of the jobs were anything like the war. He had become so
used to doing what people told him that once he had the chance to make
decisions on his own, he was unable to decide on anything because the
options were endless. Bowker felt empty once he returned home from the
war, because he no longer served a significant purpose. "My life, I
mean. It's almost like I got killed over in Nam...Hard to describe.
not saving him from the muck, and because of that there was an empty
space within him. "Bowker described the problem of finding a
meaningful use for his life after the war. He had worked briefly as an
automotive parts salesman, a janitor, a car wash attendant, and a
short-order cook at the local A&W fast-food franchise," (O'Brien 149).
Bowker did numerous odd jobs, but none of them gave him that feeling
of peace or completion that he craved.
On Feb 23, 10:22 am, "Hannah Baran (Louisa HS)"
>
> - Show quoted text -
his mind that once Bowker returned home nothing seemed quite right,
because none of the jobs were anything like the war. He had become so
used to doing what people told him that once he had the chance to make
decisions on his own, he was unable to decide on anything because the
options were endless. Bowker felt empty once he returned home from the
war, because he no longer served a significant purpose. "My life, I
mean. It's almost like I got killed over in Nam...Hard to describe.
That night when Kiowa got wasted, I sort of sank down into the sewage
with him," (O'Brien 150). Bowker felt that he had betrayed Kiowa by
not saving him from the muck, and because of that there was an empty
space within him. "Bowker described the problem of finding a
meaningful use for his life after the war. He had worked briefly as an
automotive parts salesman, a janitor, a car wash attendant, and a
short-order cook at the local A&W fast-food franchise," (O'Brien 149).
Bowker did numerous odd jobs, but none of them gave him that feeling
of peace or completion that he craved.
On Feb 23, 10:22 am, "Hannah Baran (Louisa HS)"
<hannah.ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This is Emily's response:
>
> That's a great question, Lindsay. I think that Norman Bowker couldn't
> find any job that suited him after the war because he had created a
> routine for himself at war. He was so used to people always telling
> him what to do, when to do it, and how to do it, that he lost sight of
> how life back home is supposed to work. He also had become so used to
> the difficult and hard life in Vietnam, that life back home in Iowa
> was boring and dull. He got tired of jobs quickly, probably because he
> he understood that life at war was a terrible sight. This is infered
> from the statement O'Brien makes, saying, "At one point he had
> enrolled in the junior college in his hometown, but the course work,
> he said, seemed too abstract, too distant, with nothing real or
> tangible at stake, certainly not the stakes of war" (O'Brien 149). He
> had experienced it all, and just the idea that people around him were
> functioning normally bothered him. He wanted to feel normal, but he
> failed to find relief from the war in any jobs he tried, so he moved
> on after less than 10 weeks.
>
> On Feb 23, 10:20 am, "Hannah Baran (Louisa HS)"
>
>
>
> <hannah.ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > This is Lindsey's question:
>
> > Why do you think that after all the job positions that Norman Bowker
> > took years after returning from war, that he couldn't find anything
> > that seemed to interest him?- Hide quoted text -
> This is Emily's response:
>
> That's a great question, Lindsay. I think that Norman Bowker couldn't
> find any job that suited him after the war because he had created a
> routine for himself at war. He was so used to people always telling
> him what to do, when to do it, and how to do it, that he lost sight of
> how life back home is supposed to work. He also had become so used to
> the difficult and hard life in Vietnam, that life back home in Iowa
> was boring and dull. He got tired of jobs quickly, probably because he
> he understood that life at war was a terrible sight. This is infered
> from the statement O'Brien makes, saying, "At one point he had
> enrolled in the junior college in his hometown, but the course work,
> he said, seemed too abstract, too distant, with nothing real or
> tangible at stake, certainly not the stakes of war" (O'Brien 149). He
> had experienced it all, and just the idea that people around him were
> functioning normally bothered him. He wanted to feel normal, but he
> failed to find relief from the war in any jobs he tried, so he moved
> on after less than 10 weeks.
>
> On Feb 23, 10:20 am, "Hannah Baran (Louisa HS)"
>
>
>
> <hannah.ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > This is Lindsey's question:
>
> > Why do you think that after all the job positions that Norman Bowker
> > took years after returning from war, that he couldn't find anything
>
> - Show quoted text -
Lakey
Feb 23, 2011, 8:45:00 PM2/23/11
to The Things They Carried discussion, spring 2011 (green)
I defenitely agree with Moria. Bowker went through an incredible
amount of insanity during the war. Nothing he had seen before or done
before, jobs that were impossible. He lived every day knowing that he
could be killed any second by a grenade or a sniper or trip wire. His
job was to stay alive. When he returned home, it was such a drastic
switch from always being in danger and having to know exactly what to
do and when to openness and freedom that he didnt know what to do. He
beccame "A guy who can't get his act together and just drives around
town all day" (O'Brien 151). It was a culture shock to him and he
couldn't decide what he was supposed to do with his life. He had
tried to find a job and start a new life, but "none of these
jobs...had lasted more than ten weeks" (O'Brien 149). He couldn't
live the same way he had before the war because of what he now knew
and the things he had seen and done. The war changed him and made it
so that he couldn't live a normal life any longer.
amount of insanity during the war. Nothing he had seen before or done
before, jobs that were impossible. He lived every day knowing that he
could be killed any second by a grenade or a sniper or trip wire. His
job was to stay alive. When he returned home, it was such a drastic
switch from always being in danger and having to know exactly what to
do and when to openness and freedom that he didnt know what to do. He
beccame "A guy who can't get his act together and just drives around
town all day" (O'Brien 151). It was a culture shock to him and he
couldn't decide what he was supposed to do with his life. He had
tried to find a job and start a new life, but "none of these
jobs...had lasted more than ten weeks" (O'Brien 149). He couldn't
live the same way he had before the war because of what he now knew
and the things he had seen and done. The war changed him and made it
so that he couldn't live a normal life any longer.
robyn....@gmail.com
Feb 23, 2011, 9:22:24 PM2/23/11
to tttc20...@googlegroups.com
Though I do agree with Emily and Abbey, i feel like there is a bigger reason as to why Bowker couldnt seem to find a purpose in everyday life. Bowker had the "problem of finding a meaningful use for his life after the war" (149). In my opinion, this is due to the fact that in Vietnam, Bowker was so used to playing hero, that everyday jobs and life in general had no special purpose in life. Bowker worked simple jobs like, "Automotive parts salesman, a janitor, a car wash attendent, and a short order cook at the local A&W fast-Food franchise" (149). None of these jobs helped people, something that Bowker was so used to doing for the civilians in Vietnam, and I think that it really bothered him, and in the end, caused him to commit suicide.
Meagan
Feb 23, 2011, 10:33:24 PM2/23/11
to The Things They Carried discussion, spring 2011 (green)
While I believe Emily and Abbey both made valid points, I agree more
with Ralph and Moria. War and its atrocities overpowered Bowker's
life, during and after. I like Ralph's statement about civilian life
being meaningless because, in comparison to life at war, Bowker felt
his life back home was indeed meaningless. He describes his character
to O'Brien as "a guy who can't get his act together and can't think of
any damn place to go and doesn't know how to get there
anyway" (O'Brien 151). The reason he couldn't bear to stagnate at one
job was that Vietnam had claimed his mindset and he couldn't
comprehend a normal, everyday, safe routine. This inability to settle
and his lack of satisfaction with his small town life eventually led
him to commit suicide.
with Ralph and Moria. War and its atrocities overpowered Bowker's
life, during and after. I like Ralph's statement about civilian life
being meaningless because, in comparison to life at war, Bowker felt
his life back home was indeed meaningless. He describes his character
to O'Brien as "a guy who can't get his act together and can't think of
any damn place to go and doesn't know how to get there
anyway" (O'Brien 151). The reason he couldn't bear to stagnate at one
job was that Vietnam had claimed his mindset and he couldn't
comprehend a normal, everyday, safe routine. This inability to settle
and his lack of satisfaction with his small town life eventually led
him to commit suicide.
Brianna
Feb 24, 2011, 8:12:57 AM2/24/11
to The Things They Carried discussion, spring 2011 (green)
This is a great question Lindsey. I agree with Emily, Norman couldn't
find anything job wise to interest him after the war, because he was
so used to doing the same routine for years and then one day the war
was over so he got to do what he wanted. There was nothing as exciting
as war and nobody telling him when to get up and when to go to sleep.
He had control over his life for the first time in years. The first
sentence of the chapter explains it all. "The war was over and there
was no place in particular to go." (O'Brien 131). He had no plan after
the war, because war was his life and now it was over.
find anything job wise to interest him after the war, because he was
so used to doing the same routine for years and then one day the war
was over so he got to do what he wanted. There was nothing as exciting
as war and nobody telling him when to get up and when to go to sleep.
He had control over his life for the first time in years. The first
sentence of the chapter explains it all. "The war was over and there
was no place in particular to go." (O'Brien 131). He had no plan after
the war, because war was his life and now it was over.
Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages