Reading #6, Question 2
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Emily Richards
Feb 9, 2011, 4:40:51 PM2/9/11
to The Things They Carried discussion, spring 2011 (green)
After reading "Church," how do you think religion plays into the lives
of the soldiers? Or more specifically, how do you think war affected
the soldiers' religious beliefs?
of the soldiers? Or more specifically, how do you think war affected
the soldiers' religious beliefs?
Ralph Recto
Feb 12, 2011, 3:15:27 PM2/12/11
to The Things They Carried discussion, spring 2011 (green)
That's a good question, Emily.
It appears that the war reinforces each soldier's pre-existing belief
rather than affect it substantially. More religious soldiers like
Kiowa still keep their religious practices (carrying and reading a
Bible, for example) far away from home in the jungles of Vietnam,
while those who were apathetic towards religion continue to be
apathetic in war. There was no religious awakening of any sort
described in the story - the pagoda and the two monks were treated
secularly and in a matter-of-fact way by the soldiers and O'Brien in
his prose, despite Kiowa's insistence that "setting up here [in the
pagoda]. It's wrong. I don't care what, it's still a church" (116).
The carnage of war does not inspire the religiously apathetic soldiers
to suddenly become religious. Even as Henry Dobbins ponders the
possibility of his becoming a preacher, he rejects it at the end for
"all these years...I still hate church" (115). Kiowa was religious
before, and Dobbins was not, and both stayed the same throughout their
stay in Vietnam.
On Feb 9, 4:40 pm, Emily Richards <emilynicholericha...@gmail.com>
wrote:
It appears that the war reinforces each soldier's pre-existing belief
rather than affect it substantially. More religious soldiers like
Kiowa still keep their religious practices (carrying and reading a
Bible, for example) far away from home in the jungles of Vietnam,
while those who were apathetic towards religion continue to be
apathetic in war. There was no religious awakening of any sort
described in the story - the pagoda and the two monks were treated
secularly and in a matter-of-fact way by the soldiers and O'Brien in
his prose, despite Kiowa's insistence that "setting up here [in the
pagoda]. It's wrong. I don't care what, it's still a church" (116).
The carnage of war does not inspire the religiously apathetic soldiers
to suddenly become religious. Even as Henry Dobbins ponders the
possibility of his becoming a preacher, he rejects it at the end for
"all these years...I still hate church" (115). Kiowa was religious
before, and Dobbins was not, and both stayed the same throughout their
stay in Vietnam.
On Feb 9, 4:40 pm, Emily Richards <emilynicholericha...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Logan Torgerson
Feb 12, 2011, 4:09:48 PM2/12/11
to The Things They Carried discussion, spring 2011 (green)
Those are good points, Ralph. It appears that the war does not have
any significant effect on certain soldier's religious beliefs, since
Kiowa and Dobbins carried the same beliefs about God and church before
the war started and during war. Dobbins says, "I mean, I'm not the
churchy type. When I was a little kid, way back, I used to sit there
on Sunday morning counting bricks on the wall. Church wasn't for
me." (O'Brien 114). Dobbins is still not "all that religious" during
the war (O'Brien 114), but he thinks about being a minister for the
aspect of helping people, not preaching. Dobbins questions Kiowa
about his religion, asking him about the Bible he carries around and
his lack of swearing and Kiowa reponds, "I grew up that way." (O'Brien
116). The war might have changed them by allowing them more time to
think to themselves and situations to make them question their moral
character, but Kiowa and Dobbins did not drastically change their
religious beliefs or their relationships with God.
> > the soldiers' religious beliefs?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
any significant effect on certain soldier's religious beliefs, since
Kiowa and Dobbins carried the same beliefs about God and church before
the war started and during war. Dobbins says, "I mean, I'm not the
churchy type. When I was a little kid, way back, I used to sit there
on Sunday morning counting bricks on the wall. Church wasn't for
me." (O'Brien 114). Dobbins is still not "all that religious" during
the war (O'Brien 114), but he thinks about being a minister for the
aspect of helping people, not preaching. Dobbins questions Kiowa
about his religion, asking him about the Bible he carries around and
his lack of swearing and Kiowa reponds, "I grew up that way." (O'Brien
116). The war might have changed them by allowing them more time to
think to themselves and situations to make them question their moral
character, but Kiowa and Dobbins did not drastically change their
religious beliefs or their relationships with God.
>
> - Show quoted text -
Jason Guy
Feb 12, 2011, 8:04:27 PM2/12/11
to The Things They Carried discussion, spring 2011 (green)
Ralph and Logan you both made good points. I believe the war affected
the non-religious soldiers more so than religious soldiers, but in
both cases it seemed to build upon the soldier's pre-existing
religious beliefs rather than create new ones. As a young kid Henry
Dobbins went to church on Sundays but not for religion, he just liked
being generous and nice to other people. During the war, especially
while dug in at the church, Dobbins thought in depth about religion
and what he believed in, enough so for him to consider becoming a
minister, yet in the end dobbins realizes that he still hated the
religious part of church. "All these years, man, I still hate
church" (O'Brien 115). Kiowa in belief was the opposite of Dobbins.
He attended church to worship and learn about god. Throughout the war
Kiowa had ample time to think about his beliefs, but he never
considered changing. The war seemed to have a greater affect
religiously on Dobbins than Kiowa, but in both cases neither soldier
seriously changed their views on religion.
On Feb 12, 3:09 pm, Logan Torgerson <ltorger...@brvgs.k12.va.us>
wrote:
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -Ralph and Logan you both made good points. I believe the war affected the non-religious soldiers more so than religious soldiers, but in both cases it seemed to build upon the soldier's pre-existing religious beliefs rather than create new ones. As a young kid Henry Dobbins went to church on Sundays but not for religion, he just liked being generous and nice to other people. During the war, especially while dug in at the church, Dobbins thought in depth about religion and what he believed in, enough so for him to consider becoming a minister, yet in the end dobbins realizes that he still hated the religious part of church. "All these years, man, I still hate church" (O'Brien 115). Kiowa in belief was the opposite of Dobbins. He attended church to worship and learn about god. Throughout the war Kiowa had ample time to think about his beliefs, but he never considered changing. The war seemed to have a greater affect religiously on Dobbins than Kiowa, but in both cases neither soldier seriously changed their views on religion.
the non-religious soldiers more so than religious soldiers, but in
both cases it seemed to build upon the soldier's pre-existing
religious beliefs rather than create new ones. As a young kid Henry
Dobbins went to church on Sundays but not for religion, he just liked
being generous and nice to other people. During the war, especially
while dug in at the church, Dobbins thought in depth about religion
and what he believed in, enough so for him to consider becoming a
minister, yet in the end dobbins realizes that he still hated the
religious part of church. "All these years, man, I still hate
church" (O'Brien 115). Kiowa in belief was the opposite of Dobbins.
He attended church to worship and learn about god. Throughout the war
Kiowa had ample time to think about his beliefs, but he never
considered changing. The war seemed to have a greater affect
religiously on Dobbins than Kiowa, but in both cases neither soldier
seriously changed their views on religion.
On Feb 12, 3:09 pm, Logan Torgerson <ltorger...@brvgs.k12.va.us>
wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -Ralph and Logan you both made good points. I believe the war affected the non-religious soldiers more so than religious soldiers, but in both cases it seemed to build upon the soldier's pre-existing religious beliefs rather than create new ones. As a young kid Henry Dobbins went to church on Sundays but not for religion, he just liked being generous and nice to other people. During the war, especially while dug in at the church, Dobbins thought in depth about religion and what he believed in, enough so for him to consider becoming a minister, yet in the end dobbins realizes that he still hated the religious part of church. "All these years, man, I still hate church" (O'Brien 115). Kiowa in belief was the opposite of Dobbins. He attended church to worship and learn about god. Throughout the war Kiowa had ample time to think about his beliefs, but he never considered changing. The war seemed to have a greater affect religiously on Dobbins than Kiowa, but in both cases neither soldier seriously changed their views on religion.
Meagan
Feb 12, 2011, 9:55:53 PM2/12/11
to The Things They Carried discussion, spring 2011 (green)
Jason, I agree with your statement that the war affected non-religious
soldiers more than the outspokenly religious soldiers like Kiowa. In
the chapter, Church, the pagoda seems more poignant to Henry Dobbins
than it does to Kiowa. Dobbins talks about going to church as a
child, but he admits he was "not the churchy type. I used to sit
there on Sunday counting the bricks in the wall" (O'Brien 114). Even
though Dobbins was never particularly religious, spending time with
the hospitable monks makes him remember his wishes to be a minister.
It invites religious conversation between Kiowa and Dobbins because of
the friendly, religious atmosphere of the miniature monastery. While
Kiowa has always been open to religion, carrying a Bible with him
everywhere and appreciating churches, I think the pagoda affected
Dobbins more deeply. He created a connection with the two monks that
wasn't necessarily religious, but I don't think he would ever forget
the effect the pagoda had on him.
soldiers more than the outspokenly religious soldiers like Kiowa. In
the chapter, Church, the pagoda seems more poignant to Henry Dobbins
than it does to Kiowa. Dobbins talks about going to church as a
child, but he admits he was "not the churchy type. I used to sit
there on Sunday counting the bricks in the wall" (O'Brien 114). Even
though Dobbins was never particularly religious, spending time with
the hospitable monks makes him remember his wishes to be a minister.
It invites religious conversation between Kiowa and Dobbins because of
the friendly, religious atmosphere of the miniature monastery. While
Kiowa has always been open to religion, carrying a Bible with him
everywhere and appreciating churches, I think the pagoda affected
Dobbins more deeply. He created a connection with the two monks that
wasn't necessarily religious, but I don't think he would ever forget
the effect the pagoda had on him.
Austen Stevens
Feb 13, 2011, 9:21:24 PM2/13/11
to The Things They Carried discussion, spring 2011 (green)
I agree with the above statements that the brief stay at the pagoda
reinforced religious beliefs, for despite the fact that the pagoda
belonged to monks of different beliefs than the soldiers, the building
still held a sacred feeling (for both the monks and soldiers).
Although the monks may also see the pagoda as a home, the other
soldiers, especially Dobbins, feel that "[s]etting up here. It's
wrong. I don't care what, it's still a church." (O'Brien, 116). It
seems that certain instances in the soldiers lives, whether during
peace or in war, allow for reflection upon their core beliefs, and in
some instances, all that's needed to inspire this reflection is an act
of kindness in a forsaken wilderness, providing some sense of civil
nature. The fact that the monks allowed the soldiers to both enter and
dwell within their sacred home helped the soldiers to realize how
truly fortunate they were, and how conscious and respectful they
should be for the blessings they'd been given.
reinforced religious beliefs, for despite the fact that the pagoda
belonged to monks of different beliefs than the soldiers, the building
still held a sacred feeling (for both the monks and soldiers).
Although the monks may also see the pagoda as a home, the other
soldiers, especially Dobbins, feel that "[s]etting up here. It's
wrong. I don't care what, it's still a church." (O'Brien, 116). It
seems that certain instances in the soldiers lives, whether during
peace or in war, allow for reflection upon their core beliefs, and in
some instances, all that's needed to inspire this reflection is an act
of kindness in a forsaken wilderness, providing some sense of civil
nature. The fact that the monks allowed the soldiers to both enter and
dwell within their sacred home helped the soldiers to realize how
truly fortunate they were, and how conscious and respectful they
should be for the blessings they'd been given.
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