Reading #9, Question 1

[Logan Torgerson]

In "Speaking of Courage", what is the significance of Norman Bowker
imagining having conversations with the people in his town? Why
doesn't he really talk about his war experiences to people instead of
visualizing in his head what he would have said?

[Ian McKay]

That's a great question Logan.

I believe Norman Bowker did not directly speak to anyone about his war
experiences because he felt as if no one would truly understand, so he
did not bother. All of the medals he won and the Silver Star that he
almost won were very important to him. "Seven count 'em. You weren't a
coward either." "Well, maybe not. But I had the chance and I blew
it" (O'Brien 136). Bowker felt bad about the Silver Star that he did
not win; I believe he did not want to talk to anyone about the war
because they would never understand how he truly felt about giving up
on his chance to be awarded that medal. He also knew that anyone he
talked to would only say to him, "well atleast you still have those
other seven medals". Bowker couldn't talk to anyone else about his
medals or his stories, because he wanted someone to sympathize with
him, and nobody would because none of them knew how he felt about that
one Silver Star he never got.

On Feb 21, 7:57 pm, Logan Torgerson <ltorger...@brvgs.k12.va.us>
wrote:

[Ashton Trice]

That’s an interesting question Logan.
I agree with Ian’s argument about the significance of Norman Bowker
visualizing conversations. I think Bowker knew that nobody would
understand what he experienced in the war, so he thought it would be
easier to imagine what people would think. Since he visualized
conversations with people who didn’t experience the war with him, he
knew they couldn’t grasp on how significant Kiowa’s death was to him.
Bowker wrote in his letter to O’Brien, “The thing is, there’s no place
to go. Not just in this lousy little town. In general. My life, I
mean. It’s almost like I got killed over in Nam… Hard to describe.
That night when Kiowa got wasted, I sort of sank down into the sewage
with him” (O’Brien 15). Bowker knew that when he was at war, people in
his hometown moved on. Sally Kramer got married and his own father
didn’t want to talk to him. Bowker felt that part of him died in
Vietnam and that there wasn’t really a reason to talk to anyone he
knew before the war because he didn’t want them to see him as a
failure for not receiving the Silver Star that he wanted more than
anything.

[Jonathan Jackowicz]

Thats a good question Logan. I think it's because thats how he wants
the conversations to occur inside his head, such as the one with his
father, " 'I almost won the Silver Star,' he would have said. 'How's
that?' 'Just a story.' 'So tell me' " (135). From the way he describes
his father it sounds like he would have been very disappointed instead
of interested in how his son almost won it. Bowker probably couldn't
take the fact that his father at the very least didn't care about him
anymore so he creates a touching scene with his father that will never
occur.

On Feb 21, 6:57 pm, Logan Torgerson <ltorger...@brvgs.k12.va.us>
wrote:

[Lindsay Padgett]

Good question Logan and I agree with the points that you have made here Ashton and Ian. I agree that Norman Bowker decides to not tell any of his stories because he feels like not many people would be able to understand how it was really being in the war. I think by him imagining he is having these conversations makes him feel better because it's as if people are really getting what he is saying. I think that Norman also feels like it will be awkward to tell his stories because Vietnam was a different world; what happened over there during the war seems unimaginable. All of his friends and family that he left behind continued to live the lives they knew even after he had left. Bowker probably didn't tell anyone his stories not only because he felt like they wouldn't understand but also because he thought they wouldn't care what he had to say. Despite how Bowker felt people would feel about his stories, he imagined that individuals, like his father, would actually care about the things he had to say if he was to him. "I almost won the Silver Star, " he (Bowker) would have said. "How's that?" "Just a story." "So tell me," his father would have said. (O'Brien 134). His old friends also had their own lives and problems to worry about and Bowker may have thought they didn't need to hear his depressing stories of war. Even though not all of Bowker's stories were ones of sadness, like him winning medals for his courage and bravery, individuals still wouldn't understand the excitement of earning a medal like that unless they were actually in Vietnam to see what it took to get awarded for making honorable decisions in war.  

[Rosemary]

I agree with Ashton and Ian that Bowker didn't think anyone would
understand his experience, but I think he mostly wanted to spare them
the pain of the war. Everyone in the town seemed to have forgotten
about the war and he didn't want to burden them with his problems. The
town "had no memory, therefore no guilt" and he didn't want to ruin
that feeling with his hurt and remorse (O'Brien 137). If anything, he
just wanted to forget the war and be guilt-free. He says that "nobody
in town wanted to know about the terrible stink…they wanted good
intentions and good deeds" (143). He thought no one would appreciate
or want to hear his "good war story" because it would only be
depressing. They wanted to forget the horror of the war and focus on
the good in life, but Bowker couldn't focus on the good; he relived
the war over and over again as he drove around the lake. His imagined
conversations somewhat give him relief from these memories, but they
don't work as well as a true conversation would. His mother put it
simplest when she said, "I don't suppose he wanted to bother
anybody" (154). While O'Brien could tell stories through writing,
Bowker's care for others led to the bottled up feelings that drove him
to suicide.

> > visualizing in his head what he would have said?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Raymond]

I agree with Rosemary. I think the primary reason that Bowker imagined
how his conversations would go was because he knew someone who had not
experienced the war on their own, would not understand what he was
trying to say to them meant. But I think he also did this because he
knew what he wanted to say, and by imagining the conversation, he
would be able to insure that he told what he wanted to tell. "And then
he would have talked about the medal he did not win and why he did not
win it. "I almost won the Silver Star," he would have said. "How's

that?" "Just a story." "So tell me," his father would have

said." (135). By imagining the conversation, he controls the
conversation and can express what he wants to say without having to
worry about what other people don't understand about the war.

> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[Kelly Candeto]

Good question, Logan!
In Norman's head, he has conversations with his father, his old
girlfriend, and then he comes very close to almost telling the
employee at Mama's Burgers about how he almost won the silver star.
Even though he imagines, and even comes very close, to telling them
about his time in Vietnam, he never spills the story. I think this is
because it's almost too intimate. None of the people that he wanted to
tell would have truly understood. The story would have seemed too
gruesome for them and he feared that it would change their perspective
about Norman. Since they had never been to war, they wouldn't
understand how dirty it is. It wasn't necessarily Norman that was
dirty, but just being at war makes a person dirty. He decides that he
definitely couldn't ever tell Sally Kramer, his old girlfriend, about
it because of the language he used in the telling of the story.
Somehow though, he felt that he had to use those words to tell the
story and that, "It was not a question of offensive language, but of
fact" (O'Brien 140). It was as if by changing the terminology, he was
watering down the story and his listeners wouldn't really understand
what it was like. However, Norman knew that they really didn't want to
understand what it was like. The people of his hometown didn't want to
know the dirtiness of the war. "It was not a war for war stories, nor
for talk of valor, and nobody in town wanted to know about the
terrible stink. They wanted good intentions and good deeds" (O'Brien
143). I think the main reason that Norman never told anyone was that
he didn't feel like anyone really wanted to know, beyond just out
curiosity, what it was really like for him in 'Nam. They all wanted to
hold onto their illusions that their boys were over there being brave
and killing bad guys. They didn't want to hear about the good guys who
didn't make it, or the times when our soldiers' bravery failed them.

[Kierra W.]

I agree with Jonathan’s opinion on why Norman Bowker creates various
conversations with people in his head because he wants to obtain a
pleasant memory and to have his desired outcome for that particular
conversation. Talking to people isn’t always the easiest of task,
especially when you don’t believe they will have an interest in the
conversation or be disappointed by the news you are revealing to them.
This is highly present from the conversation Norman has with his
father in his head about him not receiving the Silver Star medal. He
starts the conversation with few facts thinking that his father
wouldn’t be interested in which he responds with, “So what
happened?’ [Norman said] ‘You really want to hear this?’ [Father
responds] ‘Hey, I’m your father’…”(O’Brien 137). This exhibits how
Normans conversation with his father in his mind was used to comfort
him by showing that his dad was interested in his life from the war
and not just medals.

On Feb 21, 7:57 pm, Logan Torgerson <ltorger...@brvgs.k12.va.us>
wrote: