Reading #6

[Maeha Karlow]

As a young lady dances outside of her house, Azar questions why she
does this. Hennry Dobbins says "it doesn't matter... the girl just
like[s] to dance" (O'Brien 135, 136). Why do you think the girl is
dancing? Dobbins also gets angry when Azar mocks her dance; Azar
thinks it "some weird ritual" (O'Brien, 136). Why is Dobbins defending
her? Also, why is Azar so interested in why the girl dances?

[Emily Barnes]

I think the girl is dancing because it's a form of release for her.
Dancing was a chance for her to forget the war, the pain, the strife,
and the misery. Azar is interested in her dancing because he doesn't
see dancing as a form of release, so he doesn't understand why she
would dance. Dobbins, however, understands why she dances, to an
extent, and defends her because he doesn't want her to be taunted of
her form of stress release.

On Jan 28, 4:53 pm, Maeha Karlow <karlo...@gtest.lcps.k12.va.us>
wrote:

[Maeha Karlow]

Great observations Emily, but look beyond these points. Do you think
the dance is a sacred ritual practiced in Vietnamese culture? Perhaps
Azar is a philistine, only recognizing the dance as movements of a
traumatized child? Could there be something Dobbins is hiding- some
kind of experience or feeling tantamount to that of the girl's?
Think about this.

[Shelly]

I think that the girl dances to escape from the reality of what is
going on around her. Even with all of the things that are occurring as
she is dancing, she doesn't stop, and she doesn't even let it phase
her. Azar talks about her dancing and keeps asking "Why's she
dancing?" (O'Brien 29). It seems as though Azar thinks there should be
a reason for her dancing, like she can't just dance to dance. I also
think that Dobbins defends her dancing because he sees that the girl
is doing it as an escape from her surroundings and he doesn't want
Azar to mock her.

On Jan 28, 4:53 pm, Maeha Karlow <karlo...@gtest.lcps.k12.va.us>
wrote:

[Maeha Karlow]

Shelly, your argument is strong and clear. So, to further your
detail, what happens when she stops dancing? Also, why does Azar feel
there has to be a reason for the dancing?

[Zoe Kopin]

I agree with Shelly, the girl dances because it is something she
enjoys, and it temporarily distracts her from what has happened to her
family. The girl's family was found "...dead and badly
burned" (O'Brien 135). This would be a reason for anyone to want to
get away from what is happening. The girl's dancing is a way for her
to destress and take her mind off what happened. When Azar mocks her,
I believe that Dobbins defends her because all of the soldiers also
have their own way to escape the pain of war, such as the man that
wears his girlfriend's stockings around his neck for comfort. I
believe that the soldiers understand the girl's pain, because they are
also going through hard times during the war.

On Feb 11, 4:12 pm, Maeha Karlow <karlo...@gtest.lcps.k12.va.us>

wrote:
>         Shelly, your argument is strong and clear. So, to further your
> detail, what happens when she stops dancing? Also, why does Azar feel
> there has to be a reason for the dancing?
>
> On Feb 11, 2:42 pm, Shelly <lcshellb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I think that the girl dances to escape from the reality of what is
> > going on around her. Even with all of the things that are occurring as
> > she is dancing, she doesn't stop, and she doesn't even let it phase
> > her. Azar talks about her dancing and keeps asking "Why's she
> > dancing?" (O'Brien 29). It seems as though Azar thinks there should be
> > a reason for her dancing, like she can't just dance to dance. I also
> > think that Dobbins defends her dancing because he sees that the girl
> > is doing it as an escape from her surroundings and he doesn't want
> > Azar to mock her.
>
> > On Jan 28, 4:53 pm, Maeha Karlow <karlo...@gtest.lcps.k12.va.us>
> > wrote:
>
> > >         As a young lady dances outside of her house, Azar questions why she
> > > does this. Hennry Dobbins says "it doesn't matter... the girl just
> > > like[s] to dance" (O'Brien 135, 136). Why do you think the girl is
> > > dancing? Dobbins also gets angry when Azar mocks her dance; Azar
> > > thinks it "some weird ritual" (O'Brien, 136). Why is Dobbins defending

> > > her? Also, why is Azar so interested in why the girl dances?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Megan]

"The girl danced with her eyes half closed, her feet bare;" her house
is burning and her family is inside (O'Brien135). She is dancing to
escape the disaster that is happening before her eyes. I don't think
it is "some weird ritual" like Azar believes (136). I think it is more
that than; I don't know what religion the young girl is, but I think
her dancing is a form of pray and asking for help. Dobbins defends the
girl because he knows how much pain and suffering she is going
through. He realizes that the dancing she is performing is important
to her and Azar should not be making fun of the girl. If she is
expressing herself through dancing and trying to escape reality, then
Azar has no reason to mock her. I think he is so interested in her
dancing because it is so foreign to him; it is something he does not
understand. Many people in today's society mock others because they
are different, "weird," and confusing. I think that is what Azar is
doing; he doesn't understand what the girl is doing so he mocks her to
make himself feel better and more comfortable.

> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[Hannah Baran]

Maeha is having some posting issues, so she asked me to post this for her:

Zoe, you do realize that "the man that wears his girlfriend's stockings around his neck" is Dobbins, right? So, knowing that information actually proves your point even more.

Megan, I like your insight. I agree that he is curious because he simply does not know, nor understand the reasoning behind her dance.

What does everyone think is significant about this girl's style of dancing? The way she dances on her toes, takes tiny steps, swirling, and smiling to herself must mean something. Notice that when the soldiers dragged her family out "she put[s] the palms of her hands against her ears... and she dance[s] sideways... and then backwards" (O'Brien 135-136). She makes other precise movements noted in "Style." So please, explain what the meanings are.

[carla downs]

I agree with Shelly that the girl is dancing to keep her mind clear of
what is going on around her. The girl "Put[s] the palms of her hands
against her ears," to try and block out all the loud noises that pose
as a distraction (O'Brien 135). Her style of dancing is most likely
part of the Vietnamese culture that she was taught as a young child.
Maybe she is somehow worshiping or praying for a positive future after
her family was found "dead and badly burned" (O'Brien 135). I think
Dobbins is defending the girl because he feels sorry for her. She
just lost her whole family because of what he and the other soldiers
did, the least he could do would be to stick up for her culture.
Dobbins thinks it is cruel to mock those who have been tortured, yet
he was partially responsible for this torture. Azar is interested in
how the girl dances because that is the only thing that strikes as
interesting to him at the time. He thinks that it's "some weird
ritual," because that is what he assumes they do in Vietnam (O'Brien
136). Most people like Azar do have preconceived thoughts about
people that are a different race than they are just because of
assumptions.

[Maeha Karlow]

This is a wonderful response Carla, I can tell you looked deeply into
the symbols in this reading. I am on the go and my phone is going to
die, so I am afraid I will not be able to respond to further posts.

[Kevin]

I agree with Shelly, I think by dancing the girl is able to remove the
true horror of the war from her current thought. While dancing, she
doesn't stop, possibly because she feels the need to continue dancing
until the impact of what had just happened has passed. "She put the
palms of her hands against her ears, which must've meant something,
and she danced sideways for a short while, and then
backwards," (O'Brien 135-136). By putting her hands over her ears she
shuts out the chaos and despair around her. Azar's continuous
questioning is because it's just something he had never seen before,
so he didn't understand. Dobbins defended her because he could tell
dancing was her outlet and didn't want Azar to criticize her for
something that made her feel better.

On Feb 11, 2:42 pm, Shelly <lcshellb...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Carla Downs]

Thank you Maeha, you asked a wonderful question.

On Feb 12, 2011 8:14 PM, "Kevin" <rknig...@gmail.com> wrote:

I agree with Shelly, I think by dancing the girl is able to remove the
true horror of the war from her current thought. While dancing, she
doesn't stop, possibly because she feels the need to continue dancing
until the impact of what had just happened has passed. "She put the
palms of her hands against her ears, which must've meant something,
and she danced sideways for a short while, and then
backwards," (O'Brien 135-136). By putting her hands over her ears she
shuts out the chaos and despair around her. Azar's continuous
questioning is because it's just something he had never seen before,
so he didn't understand. Dobbins defended her because he could tell
dancing was her outlet and didn't want Azar to criticize her for
something that made her feel better.

On Feb 11, 2:42 pm, Shelly <lcshellb...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I think that the girl dances to escape from the reality of what is > going on around her. Even wit...

> > her? Also, why is Azar so interested in why the girl dances?- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quot...

[Jarrett Talley]

Everyone has made great points but I believe that the girl was
continually dancing because she had gone insane. When she saw her
family being dragged out of the house, "she put the palms of her hands
against her ears" (O'Brien 135). She put her hands over her ears
because she had heard the sounds of her family scream as they burned
to death. Azar mocks the girls dancing because he does not understand
what happened to her and why she has lost her mind, but Dobbins knows.
That is why Dobbins picked Azar up and held him over the well, he knew
that it was wrong for Azar to mock the girl and he stopped him from
doing so.

> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[Maeha Karlow]

Kudos to Jarrett for creating an anti-echo-chamber! I'm glad to see
that we don't all agree. It is okay--actually is great--that we are
voicing apposing views. Im glad to see this question made everyone
question the meaning behind this reading.

[Natese]

At my church that I have attended all my life, our Youth Group has
danced for many years even before I was born. We call it "Sacred
Dance". Usually we use popular gospel songs and we stand in the front
of the church and dance while the music plays. Basically, we express
the song and it's tone through movement and praise God at the same
time. When I read this chapter, the image of our youth dancing
immediately popped into my head. Many of our songs we dance to speak
about praising the Lord no matter what the circumstances are. I
believe the young girl within the novel may have tried to dance to
praise her God. Emily made a good point when she spoke about the girl
dancing to release pain or any feelings she has for the war.
Personally when I dance for church purposes, I do feel free and I
forget about most of my troubles. Azar calls her dancing "...some
weird ritual" and later mocks her(136). She very well may have been
praising her god.

[Maeha Karlow]

This is a really good observation Natese. So, do you think Dobbins
feels the same connection that you feel?

[Rolph Recto]

Ha, that was my first impression of the girl too, Jarrett: she was crazed by grief. She kind of reminds me of Wilson from The Great Gatsby; instead of wandering around and killing innocent people, though, she danced. My best guess as to why she felt like dancing was the best outlet for her grief is, as Shelly mentioned, that it lets her transcend the trauma of seeing everything and everyone she has known burn to the ground. Even if the meaning of the dance is ambiguous - O'Brien doesn't mention whether it is a sort of Vietnamese mourning ritual or not - one can still admire the fact the the girl's dance is a form of art - and what is art but the display of beauty to instill meaning? O'Brien took great care in depicting the beauty and the nuanced details of the dance: "The girl danced mostly on her toes. She took tiny steps in the dirt in front of her house, sometimes making a slow twirl, sometimes smiling to herself...She put the palms of her hands against her ears...and she danced sideways for a short while, and then backwards. She did a graceful movement with her hips" (135-136). The girl - so captivated by the "music" of her grief - tries to create meaning in a seemingly senseless act of violence by dancing a sort of elegy for her family and for her village. She dances for the same reason that swan of fable sings before it dies - to create beauty out of tragedy.

As for Azar and Dobbins, their reactions to the girl's dancing are simply a matter of personality. One must remember that Azar, like all the other soldiers, are very young - they probably only graduated high school one or two years before coming to Vietnam. The girl's dancing is so interesting to Azar because he has the naïveté of a young person; since he has seen and experienced only a small portion of the world, what looks "weird" is an object of interest, and, for him, an object of mocking. Azar also seems to find joy in mocking the girl because he himself feels cowardly - mocking the girl would be a way to divert the attention of the other soldiers from his fright to the dancing. This is a common theme in the stories in TTTC: the soldiers' greatest fear is that their fear might show.

Thus, taking this naïveté, one might assume that Dobbins is a bit older than Azar and the other soldiers. O'Brien also describes him as a simple character with a strong sense of moral integrity - a character that sees the world in mostly black-and-white terms. It only makes sense that Dobbins defends the girl because respect - for everyone, not just for figures of authority - has obviously been inculcated in him inveterately. As shown in the chapter "Church," he exacts great satisfaction in "being decent."

--
Rolph Recto 

Louisa County High School

"And when your sorrow is comforted (time soothes all sorrows) you will be content that you have known me. You will always be my friend. You will want to laugh with me. And you will sometimes open your window, so, for that pleasure... and your friends will be properly astonished to see you laughing as you look up at the sky! Then you will say to them, 'Yes, the stars always make me laugh!' And they will think you are crazy. It will be a very shabby trick that I shall have played on you..."

[Madison Stanley]

I actually lean towards Jarrett in this argument. While it is
obvious that the girl dancing has in some way escaped from all reality
through her movements, I do not think that it was simply a temporary
escape. The girl will never again face reality and the horrors around
her and will instead dance around the event and push it to the back of
her brain. The death around her has traumatized her to such an extent,
that she can never face it again and has chosen instead to live in her
own dancing bliss, a true sign of insanity. She dances to stay in the
happy blissful world she has created; her mind is gone and she is no
longer a sane human being.
The girl no longer registers reality after her family is killed. She
has closed her self off to the world through her mind, which is
evident when the soldiers drag out the bodies of her family and she
remains unflustered and continues to dance. "When we dragged them out,
the girl kept dancing. She put the palms of her hands against her

ears, which must've meant something, and she danced sideways for a

short while, and then backwards. She did a graceful movement with her

hips" (O'Brien 135, 136). The young girl is in her own world where she
knows not of death or suffering and she has chosen to block out the
events around her, which is even evident by her dancing with her palms
against her ears, as if she wants to block out the sound.
When Azar notices the girls dancing, it is foreign and strange to
him and it stands out, so he later mocks it. This is a normal escape
for many humans who are uncomfortable or who don't understand
something: to mock the situation. When someone makes an odd statement
in class or says something in a weird way, many students repeat them
and mock them, and Azar's dancing performance was no different.
Throughout the book, Dobbins has proved to have quite the large
heart. He seems to be one of the more morally set characters in the
book. He truly cares about those around him which is further proved in
the "Church" reading. Dobbins' large heart caused him to stand up for
the girl. Dobbins knew that mocking the girl who had just lost
everything was wrong and cruel and morally unsound, so he decided to
take a stand and put Azar in his place.

[Maeha Karlow]

Okay everyone, great disscussion. I think I have found the moral or
this story is that ignorance is bliss.

On Feb 12, 11:52 pm, Madison Stanley <amadisonstan...@gmail.com>
wrote:

[Maeha Karlow]

Okay everyone, great disscussion. I think I ho
Ave found the moral or this sroeie is ignorance is bliss

On Feb 12, 11:52 pm, Madison Stanley <amadisonstan...@gmail.com>
wrote:

[Megan]

Jarrett, I really liked your opinion, and how different it was from
everyone elses.
I agree with Carla that her style of dancing is like that because that
is how she was taught.

On Feb 13, 8:59 am, Maeha Karlow <karlo...@gtest.lcps.k12.va.us>
wrote:

> > take a stand and put Azar in his place.- Hide quoted text -

[Katelin]

I agree with Shelly. The girl dances to escape what is going on around
her; "we found her family in the house. They were dead and badly
burned" (O'Brien 135). Dancing, for some people, is a stress reliever
and could also be an escape from the world. Her family was dying
inside the house, and she knew that there was nothing she could do
about it, so she danced. When the soldiers dragged her out of the
house, "she put the palms of her hands against her ears," I believe
she does this so she does not hear her family screaming in agony
(O'Brien 135). She continues to dance which leads me to believe that
it could be a Vietnamese ritual to better prepare her family for
death. Azar watched her closely and began to mock the girls dance
because he simply does not understand the pain she is going through.
He is interested in the girl's dances because her family is dying
inside and she is "sometimes smiling to herself" while she dances
(O'Brien 135). He is oblivious to her culture and thinks that it could
be some type of joke. Dobbins defends the girl because he does not
know what the girl is going through and he feels that he has no room
to judge.

On Jan 28, 4:53 pm, Maeha Karlow <karlo...@gtest.lcps.k12.va.us>
wrote:

[Katelin]

I agree with Shelly. The girl dances to escape what is going on around
her; "we found her family in the house. They were dead and badly
burned" (O'Brien 135). Dancing, for some people, is a stress reliever
and could also be an escape from the world. Her family was dying
inside the house, and she knew that there was nothing she could do
about it, so she danced. When the soldiers dragged her out of the
house, "she put the palms of her hands against her ears," I believe
she does this so she does not hear her family screaming in agony
(O'Brien 135). She continues to dance which leads me to believe that
it could be a Vietnamese ritual to better prepare her family for
death. Azar watched her closely and began to mock the girls dance
because he simply does not understand the pain she is going through.
He is interested in the girl's dances because her family is dying
inside and she is "sometimes smiling to herself" while she dances
(O'Brien 135). He is oblivious to her culture and thinks that it could
be some type of joke. Dobbins defends the girl because he does not
know what the girl is going through and he feels that he has no room
to judge.

On Jan 28, 4:53 pm, Maeha Karlow <karlo...@gtest.lcps.k12.va.us>
wrote:

[Ben]

I agree with Shelly that the girl simply dances to escape the reality
of the world around her. I think the reason Azar is so in thrilled by
the girl dancing is he cannot find a motive for her to be dancing,
however he also cannot accept that she has no motive to be dancing. I
think the girl dancing is a metaphor for the war in Vietnam scene from
an ordinary soldier’s perspective. The Vietnam War seems to have no
motive for the average solder; most of them are there because they
have been drafted. However many of the solders spend the entire time
trying to justify the loss and death they experience in war. “She put

the palms of her hands against her ears, which must’ve meant

something, and she danced sideways for a short while, then
backwards” (O'brien 135, 136). This dance represents the Vietnam War,
the girl covers her ears, which symbolizes America ignoring the war,
and then the solders seek meaning in the dance which symbolizes the
war. The woman moves sideways representing the American solders making
little progress in the war, then the backwards movement represents the
withdrawal.