Reading #7 Question 1

[Katelin]

When Tim O'Brein tells the story about the strange man in the fog, he
explains what had happened when he had lost control of his body and
fear had overcame him when he had threw the grenade at the man. What
do you think the significance of the man in the fog is? And why do you
think O'Brien was so touched by the kill?

[Nicole]

To me, fog is a very frightening thing because you can see very
little. I like being able to see what is in front of my face but fog
deminishes that comfort. O'Brien is in war, which is a very unsettling
place to be, and then comes the fog. He can't see in front of him so
when he sees the man, he gets scared and it is gut instinct to kill.
He didn't know that the man was not a bad person. It is something that
would haunt me so why would it not haunt him? Killing is something
that can cause get pyscological issues for a person.

[carla downs]

Well said Nicole, but do you really think it was his gut instinct to
kill because he said "There were no thoughts about killing" (O'Brien
133)? I think the man in the fog signifies an overall blur about
war. As we have argued about before in most war situations there are
few times that there is a clear answer. That is why "He (the man) was
part of the morning fog," because fog can symbolize the prevention of
clear thinking. In war you can have a bunch of different things going
on in your head at all times, like being paranoid. The men are just
sitting there waiting for an enemy and there isn't much to do so their
minds race around thinking about enemies, family and even dying. As we
know all know when you don't have a clear mind, bad decisions can be
made. I think O'Brien was so touched by the kill because he felt like
he took the life away from an innocent person, "Even now I still
haven't finished sorting it out," said O'Brien (O'Brien 134). It's
just one of those things that you know you messed up and you wish you
could go back and replay the situation with a clear mind, but it's
over now. It seems like he truly regrets killing the man, but I don't
understand what makes this man different than anyone else he killed.
Any thoughts?

[Rolph Recto]

Yes, Nicole, you brought up a great point: fog is scary precisely because of its power to cloak - thus, it plays upon one of the most potent and innate fears almost everybody has, which is the fear of the unknown. Fog can not only symbolize what is unknown, but, as in the example of the man in the fog, can also symbolize what is muddled and incomprehensible. Right after O'Brien killed the young man, he could not make sense of the situation: "None of it mattered. The words seemed far too complicated. All I could do was gape at the fact of the young man's body" (O'Brien 134). If O'Brien could not have made sense of the situation then, then how could he do so twenty or more years after the fact? Really, the man who comes out of the morning fog remained as inexplicable as when O'Brien first saw him in the jungle path. The only difference is time. With time, O'Brien's memory of the act get lost in a sort of "fog" that prevents him from really understanding what happened. 

When the man he killed comes of of the morning fog, the gruesome images of the corpse crystallize once more in his mind - but the meaning behind it never comes to him.  This is because when he killed the man, "...it was entirely automatic. [He] did not hate the young man; [he] did not see him as the enemy; [he] did not ponder issues of morality or politics or military duty" (O'Brien 132). O'Brien killed the man detachedly and, from his point of view, with no purpose except the fact that it was a war. So really, for him, what lies behind the "fog" of memory is nothing since the act - and, to a larger extent, the war - was meaningless. The man in the fog is really just that - an image of a memory; nothing more, nothing less.

The fact that O'Brien was so touched by his killing of the young man is simple enough to explain. When he saw the mutilated corpse, he saw himself - a young man with aspirations, not of war or a vague notion of "glory" and "honor," but of going to school and living a normal life. In a way, he felt like he robbed the man of the life that he could've lived.

--
Rolph Recto 

Louisa County High School

"And when your sorrow is comforted (time soothes all sorrows) you will be content that you have known me. You will always be my friend. You will want to laugh with me. And you will sometimes open your window, so, for that pleasure... and your friends will be properly astonished to see you laughing as you look up at the sky! Then you will say to them, 'Yes, the stars always make me laugh!' And they will think you are crazy. It will be a very shabby trick that I shall have played on you..."

[Maeha Karlow]

It appears that everyone recognizes that fog is a "cloak," as Rolph
puts it, symboliclly as well as literally. Carla mentions it disrupts
clear thinking. These are all valid points that I agree with. I notice
that the fog plays as a sort of lens, or window. It allows O'Brien to
see through, but the images are undefined, like an old film's grain.
Its as if O'Briens mind-- his camera, so to speak-- malfunctions. The
images, actions and thoughts get all mixed up; the film was shot
poorly in the first place, and after replaying it in his head, O'Brien
still "ha[sn't] finished sorting it out" (O'Brien 134). He says the
man "was a part of the... fog, or [his] own imagination" (132). By
this I think he means that the soldier was a vague image that he
wanted to "go away--just evaporate--" like the fog itself (133).
O'Brien's memory, his collection of mental snapshots, is blurred when
he replays the scene, just as his vision and thought process is when
he throws the grenade. I think he is bewildered by his actions. He is
astonished at how he acted without thinking. "It was entirely
automatic," he actually "had already thrown the grenade before telling
himself to throw it" (132-133).

In short, I think the significance of "man in the fog" is the
distorted actions and memories of war. The reason the soldier's death
affected O'Brien so severely is because he was greatly suprised by his
actions-- blinded by the "fog," the war, or the basic fear of the
unkown that made O'Brien act on impulse.

[Emily Barnes]

I like the way that Maeha described the fog, and I have to agree. In
every old horror film, and maybe even today, the villian always
appears out of the mists or fog. The unknown is one of humans' basic
fears, and in the fog, one can't really tell which is real from what
the imagination creates. Even O'Brien, while sitting in the fog, had
trouble telling if the young man was real or "part of the morning fog,
or my own imagination..." (O'Brien 126). I think that the significance
of the young man in the fog is that even the most peaceful person,
like O'Brien, can be goaded to act and kill because of the fear
created by the fog and the imagination.

On Feb 14, 10:52 pm, Maeha Karlow <karlo...@gtest.lcps.k12.va.us>
wrote:

> > trick that I shall have played on you..."- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Katelin]

Well Carla, you make a good point, but I look at the man to be a
mirror image of himself. They're both scared for their lives and don't
exactly know what to do and how they're supposed to react to some
things. The man was innocent and didn't deserve to die.

[Carla Downs]

Great point now Katelin, now I see how the man could be an image of O'Brien.  I guess that's why he took the killing to heart, because he was innocent at the time.  In war I really don't see one lone man as being a huge threat, nor do I see women and children as a threat.

On Feb 15, 2011 4:41 PM, "Katelin" <letitr...@gmail.com> wrote:

Well Carla, you make a good point, but I look at the man to be a
mirror image of himself. They're both scared for their lives and don't
exactly know what to do and how they're supposed to react to some
things. The man was innocent and didn't deserve to die.

On Feb 14, 9:21 pm, carla downs <carladown...@gmail.com> wrote: > Well said Nicole, but do you real...

[Carla Downs]

Sorry please omit the first "now" after great point.

On Feb 15, 2011 6:24 PM, "Carla Downs" <carlad...@gmail.com> wrote:

Great point now Katelin, now I see how the man could be an image of O'Brien.  I guess that's why he took the killing to heart, because he was innocent at the time.  In war I really don't see one lone man as being a huge threat, nor do I see women and children as a threat.

> > On Feb 15, 2011 4:41 PM, "Katelin" <letitr...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Well Carla, you make a g...

[Ben]

Rather than see the fog as a clock for the enemy I believe that the
fog represents the chain of command in war. The fog limited his view
of the surroundings and I believe that his gut instinct represents the
orders that a solder must obey without question. “I did not ponder the
issue of morality or politics or military duty (O’Brian 132).” I think
this quote illustrates how the solders in Vietnam had to become
killing machines that did not hesitate in following orders even if
they could not see or understand the full situation.

[Robin B.]

I absolutely love this question Katelin! I agree with Nicole and
Carla, you both bring great points to the discussion. When I think of
fog, it reminds me of being in a dark evening in the middle of the
night. It brings out about the idea of loneliness and being scared and
on the edge. I believe O'Brien threw the grenade out of instinct. It
was an automatic reaction, the soldiers are trained to react quickly
along with fear may increase one's reflexes. He states that "I had
already thrown the grenade before telling myself to throw
it" (O'Brien, 133). I think he was so touched by the kill because
maybe it was one of the moments of war that he remembers the most.
Also, when he looks back and thinks about the man who may well have
been innocent, he probably has feelings of regrets of taking his life.
But can we really blame him based on the conditions that he threw it?

[Natese]

You all have made excellent points, however I strongly agree with
Nicole when she says the fog prevents clear thinking. A connection
could be made from this man in the fog to O'Brien. The man in the fog
was unaware of what his future held because his path was unclear and
hidden by the fog. O'Brien believed that this young man did not want
to be in the war and was not a real threat to anyone because he
"...did not see him as the enemy"(O'Brien 132). Earlier in the novel,
O'Brien struggled to decide whether he should serve in Vietnam. His
head and mind was like a fog, but all he knew is that he did not want
to be there overseas, fighting in a war he didn't understand, much
like the man in the fog.

On Feb 13, 9:07 pm, Katelin <letitrock...@gmail.com> wrote: