Director of Engineering skillset advice

[James]

Hey engineering advisors,

Do any of you have a perspective on how critical ocean/naval
engineering expertise is for our future Director of Engineering?

If we had an experienced mechanical or civil engineer who was new to
the world of ocean engineering, would they be able to come up to speed
enough to be effective? Keep in mind much of the legwork for
designing seasteads will be outsourced to ocean engineering firms;
this individual will be doing research and leading the strategy within
TSI.

We ask because we're recruiting for a challenging position, and it's
difficult to find the perfect candidate. It's a very different role
than most ocean engineering roles out there. The structures have very
different applications. We're a non-profit startup, not a large for-
profit company. We'll pay less. And we need someone who can both
think holistically and strategically, but who doesn't mind getting
their hands dirty in simulations and building prototypes.

Feedback appreciated.

Thanks,
James


--
James Hogan, Director of Operations
The Seasteading Institute
www.seasteading.org

[Bart Kemper, P.E.]

How well a person would come up to speed depends. Its not a "skill set" as
much as its "experience set." Land-based engineering has a lot of
assumptions built in...such as its not moving, there is no salt water, it
can't tip over, etc.

However, you also need someone who can think in terms of life support, do
community planning, and other skills that are not normally in marine or
naval planning.

I would look for someone with a broad range of experience since you will
have experts to handle the detailed engineering work. Someone who has
designed expeditionary or basecamps for large groups would be ideal as you
have all of the issues of a community, plus the focus of "we are here for a
purpose" .... In essence, a company town. In the case, the purpose is "to
make Seasteading work".

Add to this, the person should have a background in structures of some sort
(steel experience), dynamics, corrosion, life support, and propulsion. The
dynamics and propulsion is where you may lose a lot of civils. The
community planning aspects is where you may lose everyone except civils.
However, there are those mutants with a mechanical or such degree that were
in the military that had to use their overall engineering background for
basecamps or such in addition to their degree-specific skill set. You may
also find those engineers that have done extensive disaster relief to also
have a good background in terms of the community planning and needs aspect.

I hope this helps.


Bart Kemper, P.E.
President, Kemper Engineering Services, LLC
PO BOX 66688, Baton Rouge LA 70896

TEL 225-923-2945
FAX 225-930-0782
TOLL FREE 877-835-4200

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[James Hogan]

Hey Bart,

Thanks for your insights here -- this is helpful.

A related question: I've heard it posited that there is a fair amount of overlap between aerospace and ocean engineering since both involve fluid dynamics, just with two different mediums. Any opinions on this?

James


--
James Hogan, Director of Operations
The Seasteading Institute
www.seasteading.org

[Jeff Chan]

Maybe. Aircraft don't need to deal with the ever present and
highly varied energy input of ocean waves. There are currents
and movements of air, but probably not to the same extent as
waves. Waves are a major challenge for ocean engineering, and
seemingly not all that well understood.

Cheers,

Jeff C.

Jeff Chan
mailto:nation-...@jeffchan.com
http://www.jeffchan.com/

[Jeff Chan]

On Wednesday, December 9, 2009, 1:13:35 PM, P.E. Bart Kemper wrote:
> How well a person would come up to speed depends. Its not a "skill set" as
> much as its "experience set." Land-based engineering has a lot of
> assumptions built in...such as its not moving, there is no salt water, it
> can't tip over, etc.

> However, you also need someone who can think in terms of life support, do
> community planning, and other skills that are not normally in marine or
> naval planning.

> I would look for someone with a broad range of experience since you will
> have experts to handle the detailed engineering work. Someone who has
> designed expeditionary or basecamps for large groups would be ideal as you
> have all of the issues of a community, plus the focus of "we are here for a
> purpose" .... In essence, a company town. In the case, the purpose is "to
> make Seasteading work".

> Add to this, the person should have a background in structures of some sort
> (steel experience), dynamics, corrosion, life support, and propulsion. The
> dynamics and propulsion is where you may lose a lot of civils. The
> community planning aspects is where you may lose everyone except civils.
> However, there are those mutants with a mechanical or such degree that were
> in the military that had to use their overall engineering background for
> basecamps or such in addition to their degree-specific skill set. You may
> also find those engineers that have done extensive disaster relief to also
> have a good background in terms of the community planning and needs aspect.

I would imagine that all of these issues come up in cruise ship
and oil platform designs. The main differences are that a
seastead might have a lower population density that a cruise ship
and higher population density than an oil platform. Otherwise
they would seem to have similar construction, corrosion,
stability, machinery, storage, comfort, etc., requirements of
existing ocean engineering. Cruise ships have large community
spaces, etc., and oil platforms also have some community spaces.

Cheers,

Jeff C.

[Wayne C. Gramlich]

James wrote:
> Hey engineering advisors,
>
> Do any of you have a perspective on how critical ocean/naval
> engineering expertise is for our future Director of Engineering?

I think it is pretty important.

> If we had an experienced mechanical or civil engineer who was new to
> the world of ocean engineering, would they be able to come up to speed
> enough to be effective? Keep in mind much of the legwork for
> designing seasteads will be outsourced to ocean engineering firms;
> this individual will be doing research and leading the strategy within
> TSI.

Truthfully, I doubt that an ME or CE would come up to speed quickly.
This is the course catalog for ocean engineering from Texas A&M:

<http://oceaneng.civil.tamu.edu/Courses/UGcourses.htm>

Some of the courses could be dropped, but a large number of
them are directly applicable to seasteading. If the director
of engineering does not know this stuff, I question the
wisdom of having a director of eng. in the first place.
It is hard to lead the strategy, when you do not know the
necessary material.

> We ask because we're recruiting for a challenging position, and it's
> difficult to find the perfect candidate. It's a very different role
> than most ocean engineering roles out there. The structures have very
> different applications. We're a non-profit startup, not a large for-
> profit company. We'll pay less. And we need someone who can both
> think holistically and strategically, but who doesn't mind getting
> their hands dirty in simulations and building prototypes.

There is no perfect candidate, but I really doubt that TSI should
hire somebody who does not at least have a Masters in some
form of Ocean Eng. The skill set that Alexia (of MI&T) is probably
the minimum.

My $.02,

-Wayne

[Jeff Chan]

I agree with Wayne.

[Bart Kemper, P.E.]

Aerospace and Naval engineering are variants and specializations of
mechanical engineering. They are more focussed, but have no additional
theoretical base.

Having said that.... There is a vast difference between water and air. Its
not even an inverse relationship....just really really really different.
In fact, there are many many underlying assumptions that are made in aero
that may not be obvious to a long term practioner, just as "everything is at
1 gravity, sea pressure, and air" is to a civil engineer. I would be
hesitant with an aerospace background applied to naval work.

I am a mechanical and I consult to aerospace and subsea/naval industries,
among others. I've seen the disconnect first hand. By the same token, I
have to rely on the experience and practical knowledge of those subject
matter experts in order to do my work as they know what the service
conditions and considerations are better than I do. I may know more than
most, but they know more than I do in this regard. This is my basis for
being highly uncomfortable with an aero taking on the seasteading project --
wave actions, bouyancy, salt water action, maintenance, etc. requires a lot
more knowledge than a book or two and is outside aero.

[Bart Kemper, P.E.]

Jeff -- agreed. That is why naval background is optimal. We're probably
more like a commercial and/or naval vessel (not a cruise ship -- the whole
purpose of a cruise ship is to have lots of paying cargo that does nothing
but get in the way of actual operations and plan around them). I was
addressing what other disciplines other than naval/ocean engineering could
be applicable.

-----Original Message-----
From: tsi-engineer...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:tsi-engineer...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Chan
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 12:00 AM
To: tsi-engineer...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Director of Engineering skillset advice

[Bart Kemper, P.E.]

I am very familiar with this program. I have worked with graduates of this
program and watched them translate their knoweldge to other fields just as I
have become more involved in naval/marine/subsea work after having a regular
mechanical degree. It's a pretty solid match...the principles and science
are the same. The main issue is you have to get a good handle on waves and
wave effects...an area that is highly studied and still a bit squirrelly.

-----Original Message-----
From: tsi-engineer...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:tsi-engineer...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Wayne C.
Gramlich
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 12:25 AM
To: tsi-engineer...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Director of Engineering skillset advice