Demo login user by languages - No countries

[Raimon Esteve]

Now, Tryton demo not available Catalan language.

You can find people speak catalan and official languages in Spain,
Andorra, France and Italian.

Catalonia is a referent from catalan language. Capital from Catalonia
is Barcelona: next Tryton Unconference. A little language, a big
country (for example, last 11 septembre, 1.600.000 people go to street
to ask Independence from Catalonia).

From Catalan people we start to include demo login in catalan. Albert
comment's in codereview
1093002 are more reason to include by language and not countries:
promotion about Tryton.

https://bugs.tryton.org/issue3378
http://codereview.tryton.org/1093002/
http://codereview.tryton.org/1095003/
http://codereview.tryton.org/1094002/

[Cédric Krier]

On 25/09/13 18:53 +0200, Raimon Esteve wrote:
> Now, Tryton demo not available Catalan language.
>
> You can find people speak catalan and official languages in Spain,
> Andorra, France and Italian.
>
> Catalonia is a referent from catalan language. Capital from Catalonia
> is Barcelona: next Tryton Unconference. A little language, a big
> country (for example, last 11 septembre, 1.600.000 people go to street
> to ask Independence from Catalonia).

Pointless.

> From Catalan people we start to include demo login in catalan. Albert
> comment's in codereview
> 1093002 are more reason to include by language and not countries:
> promotion about Tryton.

For me, it is important that the demo page [1] is short and easy to
understand. So for now, only popular languages are present.
And also I don't see as a blocking point to not have all the languages
available in the demo, just like there are not all the modules
installed.


[1] http://www.tryton.org/download.html#demo
--
Cédric Krier

B2CK SPRL
Rue de Rotterdam, 4
4000 Liège
Belgium
Tel: +32 472 54 46 59
Email/Jabber: cedric...@b2ck.com
Website: http://www.b2ck.com/

[Raimon Esteve]

More points:

* I'm, agree Slovenian language available demo + website
* Céd talk next TUB about not made localization modules. Not country
modules. Why demo is required languages by country?
* Tryton Mailing list is designed by language. No country. For
example, tryton-es is Spain, Argentina...

[Raimon Esteve]

2013/9/25 Cédric Krier <cedric...@b2ck.com>:
> Pointless.

Enjoy our history:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Catalonia

[Axel Braun]

You are already forcing the separation on the TUB as well (Thursday), which I
personally regret.

[SCNR]
Axel

[Jesús Martín Jiménez]

Hi there,

2013/9/25 Cédric Krier <cedric...@b2ck.com>

On 25/09/13 18:53 +0200, Raimon Esteve wrote:
> Now, Tryton demo not available Catalan language.
>
> You can find people speak catalan and official languages  in Spain,
> Andorra, France and Italian.
>
> Catalonia is a referent from catalan language. Capital from Catalonia
> is Barcelona: next Tryton Unconference. A little language, a big
> country (for example, last 11 septembre, 1.600.000 people go to street
> to ask Independence from Catalonia).

Pointless.

> From Catalan people we start to include demo login in catalan. Albert
> comment's in codereview
> 1093002 are more reason to include by language and not countries:
> promotion about Tryton.

For me, it is important that the demo page [1] is short and easy to
understand. So for now, only popular languages are present.

I think that for population it talks, catalan is the 15th in the UE [1]. Maybe it is not the most spoken language, but has the same level as Slovak and Bulgarian, and is more spoken than others, like Danish, Finish or Lithuanian.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_the_European_Union#Knowledge
 

And also I don't see as a blocking point to not have all the languages
available in the demo, just like there are not all the modules
installed.


[1] http://www.tryton.org/download.html#demo
--
Cédric Krier

B2CK SPRL
Rue de Rotterdam, 4
4000 Liège
Belgium
Tel: +32 472 54 46 59
Email/Jabber: cedric...@b2ck.com
Website: http://www.b2ck.com/

--

Jesús Martín

Zikzakmedia SL

Dr. Fleming, 28, baixos

08720 Vilafranca del Penedès

☏ 93 890 21 08

[Raimon Esteve]

2013/9/26 Axel Braun <axel....@gmx.de>:

> You are already forcing the separation on the TUB as well (Thursday), which I
> personally regret.

Sorry, from catalan peple we are promotion Tryton in Catalonia. You
are invited next November 7 at conference: Round-table & Tryton 3.0
(in catalan).

http://tub2013.tryton.org/

[Nicolas Évrard]

* Raimon Esteve [2013-09-26 08:33 +0200]:

I guess that what Cédric wanted to express is that this decision (How
to display demo_<language> is a technical / UI decision not one in
relation with history or political issue).

No one denies the history of Catalonia, Galicia, Brittany, Basque
Country, Flemish|Walloon Region, Corse or any other small nations /
countries / autonomous regions (use the terms that applies according
to your ideology).

But the problem is :

* Should we display on the demo page all the languages Tryton is
translated in ?
* If the answer is yes:
- how to do it efficiently (Albert proposal is nice)?
- What is the threshold (if tryton is only translated at 5% I
guess we don't want to make the demo for that language)?
- What to do when the website is translated but not the
application?
- What to do when the application is translated but not the
website?
- What to do with dialects (es_CO, es_AR, …)?
* If the answer is no:
- What is the impact of choosing only few languages?
- How do we decide which languages should be displayed? We
could use different list:
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_languages_of_the_United_Nations
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_official_languages_by_institution
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_widely_spoken_languages_(by_number_of_countries)
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_total_number_of_speakers
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_number_of_native_speakers
- I guess anyone can make up its own list in fact :D

There might be of course other issues.

My personal view on this subject is that we should follow Albert
proposal strictly. If people want to have their own language on the
demo website then the must make the effort to translate the tryton
website.

On the threshold point of view, I think that we should require that
all installed modules in the demo are fully translated.

Regarding the dialects, I don't thing they should be displayed. To be
honest, I even don't understand why they exists in the first place.

The main issue with my point of view is the maintenance costs that it
implies:

- making sure that the website is fully translated
- making sure that the installed modules are fully translated
- maybe something else I have not though about.

It is not an easy task.

--
Nicolas Évrard

B2CK SPRL
4, rue de Rotterdam

4000 Liège
Belgium
Tel: +32 472 54 46 59

E-mail/Jabber: nicolas...@b2ck.com
Website: http://www.b2ck.com/

[Jesús Martín Jiménez]

2013/9/26 Nicolas Évrard <nicolas...@b2ck.com>

+1

[Raimon Esteve]

>> The main issue with my point of view is the maintenance costs that it
>> implies:
>>
>> - making sure that the website is fully translated
>> - making sure that the installed modules are fully translated
>> - maybe something else I have not though about.

Tryton.org is more translated in Spanish or Catalan than Deutch, for example.

http://www.tryton.org/de/news/index.html
http://www.tryton.org/es/news/index.html
http://www.tryton.org/ca/news/index.html
http://hg.tryton.org/www.tryton.org

[Nicolas Évrard]

* Raimon Esteve [2013-09-26 10:38 +0200]:

So if my proposal is accepted Catalan and Spanish (and maybe German)
could be used in the demo provided we solve the maintenance issue cost
you have quoted but not replied to.

[Raimon Esteve]

> So if my proposal is accepted Catalan and Spanish (and maybe German)
> could be used in the demo provided we solve the maintenance issue cost
> you have quoted but not replied to.

Examples about links I attached is about not "big language" is more translated;
You know in Catalonia is active Trtyon project -and promotion of this
(TUC, Python Meetup, etc) -.

We are pleased to translate Tryton site and modules from hg.tryton.org
because we believe in it.

note:
Today we start to translate bank, account_dunning and account_dunning_later.

[Mathias Behrle]

* Nicolas Évrard: " Re: [tryton] Demo login user by languages - No
countries" (Thu, 26 Sep 2013 10:03:30 +0200):

Hi all,

> * Raimon Esteve [2013-09-26 08:33 +0200]:
>>2013/9/25 Cédric Krier <cedric...@b2ck.com>:
>>> Pointless.
>>
>>Enjoy our history:
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Catalonia
>
> I guess that what Cédric wanted to express is that this decision (How
> to display demo_<language> is a technical / UI decision not one in
> relation with history or political issue).
>
> No one denies the history of Catalonia, Galicia, Brittany, Basque
> Country, Flemish|Walloon Region, Corse or any other small nations /
> countries / autonomous regions (use the terms that applies according
> to your ideology).

Fully agreed.

> But the problem is :
>
> * Should we display on the demo page all the languages Tryton is
> translated in ?
> * If the answer is yes:
> - how to do it efficiently (Albert proposal is nice)?

IIUC the proposal is to only show the login for the prefered browser language.
This could be just english as default thus hiding all possible logins from the
user.

> - What is the threshold (if tryton is only translated at 5% I
> guess we don't want to make the demo for that language)?

The major part should be translated to make sense. I am just proposing a
threshold of 80%.

> - What to do when the website is translated but not the
> application?

If there is no translation of the application you don't need a localized login
of course.

> - What to do when the application is translated but not the
> website?

Display it. Translation of the website for me has no relevance with demo login.

> - What to do with dialects (es_CO, es_AR, …)?
> * If the answer is no:
> - What is the impact of choosing only few languages?

- We don't show the propagation of the project.
- We don't show community work already done.
- We don't hint fully at the localization capabilities of the application (which
are excellent).
- We get disputes like this about feelings in terms of identification with
regions, nations, etc. with the drawback of getting accused to do political
decisions instead of technical.

> - How do we decide which languages should be displayed? We
> could use different list:
> -
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_languages_of_the_United_Nations
> -
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_official_languages_by_institution
> -
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_widely_spoken_languages_(by_number_of_countries)
> -
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_total_number_of_speakers
> -
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_number_of_native_speakers
> - I guess anyone can make up its own list in fact :D
>
> There might be of course other issues.

I am clearly in favor of a translation threshold for the official application
and modules.


--

Mathias Behrle
MBSolutions
Gilgenmatten 10 A
D-79114 Freiburg

Tel: +49(761)471023
Fax: +49(761)4770816
http://m9s.biz
UStIdNr: DE 142009020
PGP/GnuPG key availabable from any keyserver, ID: 0x8405BBF6

[Mathias Behrle]

* Nicolas Évrard: " Re: [tryton] Demo login user by languages - No
countries" (Thu, 26 Sep 2013 10:03:30 +0200):

> There might be of course other issues.

This should be cleared:

Should the root accounts of accounting charts generally be translated or not? I
refrained until now to do so for i.e. the Belgium account chart, but this could
be done of course (and could make sense).
Nevertheless I would generally refrain from translating the accounts, because
this could have legal impacts. I think, the translation of an account chart
itself should be the task of the module maintainer (e.g. a swiss account chart
would preferably add the 3 languages of the country).

[Nicolas Évrard]

* Raimon Esteve [2013-09-26 11:03 +0200]:

I know you're doing a lot for Tryton, and I welcome all your efforts
to spread Tryton.

But that's not what we're talking about. What we are talking about is:

- How do we manage different languages?
- Is the procedure I proposed viable or not?
- How can we implement it efficiently?

This has nothing to do with Catalan, German, French or Klingon. It is
about procedures.

[Nicolas Évrard]

* Mathias Behrle [2013-09-26 11:16 +0200]:

>> But the problem is :
>>
>> * Should we display on the demo page all the languages Tryton is
>> translated in ?
>> * If the answer is yes:
>> - how to do it efficiently (Albert proposal is nice)?
>
>IIUC the proposal is to only show the login for the prefered browser
>language.

I think it is the language the user chose in the header of the
website.

>> - What is the threshold (if tryton is only translated at 5% I
>> guess we don't want to make the demo for that language)?
>
>The major part should be translated to make sense. I am just proposing a
>threshold of 80%.

I prefer 100% because we want the translation to be complete and it
will encourage people to reach this goal.

>
>> - What to do when the website is translated but not the
>> application?
>
>If there is no translation of the application you don't need a localized login
>of course.
>
>> - What to do when the application is translated but not the
>> website?
>
>Display it. Translation of the website for me has no relevance with demo login.

On the English translation I suppose.

>> * If the answer is no:
>> - What is the impact of choosing only few languages?
>
>- We don't show the propagation of the project.
>- We don't show community work already done.

Although I concur with those points I realize they are also drawbacks
of the 100% threshold. But I am still in favor of this threshold.

[Raimon Esteve]

2013/9/26 Nicolas Évrard <nicolas...@b2ck.com>:

> But that's not what we're talking about. What we are talking about is:
> - How do we manage different languages? - Is the procedure I
> proposed viable or not?
> - How can we implement it efficiently?

I know why not: by country (1) because some countries are many
languages. Different languages.
I propose by locale from tryton.org (2)

(1) http://hg.tryton.org/tryton-tools/file/1eaac9efd766/tryton_demo.py#l455
(2) http://codereview.tryton.org/1095003/

[Raimon Esteve]

2013/9/26 Mathias Behrle <mbe...@m9s.biz>:

> Should the root accounts of accounting charts generally be translated or not? I
> refrained until now to do so for i.e. the Belgium account chart, but this could
> be done of course (and could make sense).
> Nevertheless I would generally refrain from translating the accounts, because
> this could have legal impacts. I think, the translation of an account chart
> itself should be the task of the module maintainer (e.g. a swiss account chart
> would preferably add the 3 languages of the country).

We have a module translate Account Spanish to Catalan (1). Our
customers show account and taxes names by locale

(1) http://apps.tryton-erp.es/account_es_ca/

[Nicolas Évrard]

* Raimon Esteve [2013-09-26 11:32 +0200]:

>2013/9/26 Nicolas Évrard <nicolas...@b2ck.com>:
>> But that's not what we're talking about. What we are talking about is:
>> - How do we manage different languages? - Is the procedure I
>> proposed viable or not?
>> - How can we implement it efficiently?
>
>I know why not: by country (1) because some countries are many
>languages. Different languages.
>I propose by locale from tryton.org (2)

We have already started to talk about your proposition (I though it
was a proposition of Albert).

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/tryton/jnGCh9Mfrug/TVnRs6kEw8IJ

[Mathias Behrle]

* Nicolas Évrard: " Re: [tryton] Demo login user by languages - No

countries" (Thu, 26 Sep 2013 11:30:29 +0200):

> * Mathias Behrle [2013-09-26 11:16 +0200]:

>>> - What is the threshold (if tryton is only translated at 5% I
>>> guess we don't want to make the demo for that language)?
>>
>>The major part should be translated to make sense. I am just proposing a
>>threshold of 80%.
>
> I prefer 100% because we want the translation to be complete and it
> will encourage people to reach this goal.

So please answer also my other mail in this thread refering to translation of
account charts. When is a translation at 100%?

>>> - What to do when the application is translated but not the
>>> website?
>>
>>Display it. Translation of the website for me has no relevance with demo
>>login.
>
> On the English translation I suppose.

I don't understand what you are meaning here.

[Nicolas Évrard]

* Mathias Behrle [2013-09-26 13:02 +0200]:

>> * Mathias Behrle [2013-09-26 11:16 +0200]:
>>>> - What is the threshold (if tryton is only translated at 5% I
>>>> guess we don't want to make the demo for that language)?
>>>
>>>The major part should be translated to make sense. I am just proposing a
>>>threshold of 80%.
>>
>> I prefer 100% because we want the translation to be complete and it
>> will encourage people to reach this goal.
>
>So please answer also my other mail in this thread refering to
>translation of account charts. When is a translation at 100%?

Account charts are out of the scope. The current demo does not install
any of those.

But I think that using polib we could compute the translation rate.

>>>> - What to do when the application is translated but not the
>>>> website?
>>>
>>>Display it. Translation of the website for me has no relevance with demo
>>>login.
>>
>> On the English translation I suppose.
>
>I don't understand what you are meaning here.

Where do you display on the website the hypothetical demo_tlh
(Klingon)? On every languages pages or on the English one?

[Raimon Esteve]

> Where do you display on the website the hypothetical demo_tlh
> (Klingon)? On every languages pages or on the English one?

For klingon, create a new locale in tryton.org (1) and translate website.

(1) http://hg.tryton.org/www.tryton.org/file/5ff8585b1f8d/conf.py#l85

[Mathias Behrle]

* Nicolas Évrard: " Re: [tryton] Demo login user by languages - No

countries" (Thu, 26 Sep 2013 13:21:34 +0200):

> * Mathias Behrle [2013-09-26 13:02 +0200]:
>>> * Mathias Behrle [2013-09-26 11:16 +0200]:
>>>>> - What is the threshold (if tryton is only translated at 5% I
>>>>> guess we don't want to make the demo for that language)?
>>>>
>>>>The major part should be translated to make sense. I am just proposing a
>>>>threshold of 80%.
>>>
>>> I prefer 100% because we want the translation to be complete and it
>>> will encourage people to reach this goal.
>>
>>So please answer also my other mail in this thread refering to
>>translation of account charts. When is a translation at 100%?
>
> Account charts are out of the scope.

Ok. This is not a self-evident specification.

Don't say 100%, if you don't mean it. One simple forgotten string and a
translation is not 100%. Say 90% of unfuzzy strings and you are at your goal.

> The current demo does not install any of those.

It installs at least the minimal account chart, which is translated.

> But I think that using polib we could compute the translation rate.

Ack.

>>>>> - What to do when the application is translated but not the
>>>>> website?
>>>>
>>>>Display it. Translation of the website for me has no relevance with demo
>>>>login.
>>>
>>> On the English translation I suppose.
>>
>>I don't understand what you are meaning here.
>
> Where do you display on the website the hypothetical demo_tlh
> (Klingon)? On every languages pages or on the English one?

Now I understand better, that you are refering to logins for languages without
language for website.

I think it would be best to show all valid logins (with sufficient threshold)
on all pages.

[Nicolas Évrard]

* Mathias Behrle [2013-09-26 15:06 +0200]:

>* Nicolas Évrard: " Re: [tryton] Demo login user by languages - No
> countries" (Thu, 26 Sep 2013 13:21:34 +0200):
>
>> * Mathias Behrle [2013-09-26 13:02 +0200]:
>>>> * Mathias Behrle [2013-09-26 11:16 +0200]:
>>>>>> - What is the threshold (if tryton is only translated at 5% I
>>>>>> guess we don't want to make the demo for that language)?
>>>>>
>>>>>The major part should be translated to make sense. I am just proposing a
>>>>>threshold of 80%.
>>>>
>>>> I prefer 100% because we want the translation to be complete and it
>>>> will encourage people to reach this goal.
>>>
>>>So please answer also my other mail in this thread refering to
>>>translation of account charts. When is a translation at 100%?
>>
>> Account charts are out of the scope.
>
>Ok. This is not a self-evident specification.

Well it seemed obvious to me that not installed modules were not taken
into account.

>Don't say 100%, if you don't mean it. One simple forgotten string and a
>translation is not 100%. Say 90% of unfuzzy strings and you are at your goal.

I mean it.

Translating might be hard, but I suppose that people testing Tryton in
another language expect to see the software completely translated than
having one or two fields written in English.

>>>>>> - What to do when the application is translated but not the
>>>>>> website?
>>>>>
>>>>>Display it. Translation of the website for me has no relevance with demo
>>>>>login.
>>>>
>>>> On the English translation I suppose.
>>>
>>>I don't understand what you are meaning here.
>>
>> Where do you display on the website the hypothetical demo_tlh
>> (Klingon)? On every languages pages or on the English one?
>
>Now I understand better, that you are refering to logins for languages without
>language for website.

Yes that's the point that is quoted :D.

>I think it would be best to show all valid logins (with sufficient threshold)
>on all pages.

Once there will be a lot of language the interface will be cluttered,
no?
Of course, this problem could be solved later.

[Mathias Behrle]

* Nicolas Évrard: " Re: [tryton] Demo login user by languages - No

countries" (Thu, 26 Sep 2013 15:21:50 +0200):

> * Mathias Behrle [2013-09-26 15:06 +0200]:
> >* Nicolas Évrard: " Re: [tryton] Demo login user by languages - No
> > countries" (Thu, 26 Sep 2013 13:21:34 +0200):
> >
> >> * Mathias Behrle [2013-09-26 13:02 +0200]:
> >>>> * Mathias Behrle [2013-09-26 11:16 +0200]:
> >>>>>> - What is the threshold (if tryton is only translated at 5% I
> >>>>>> guess we don't want to make the demo for that language)?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>The major part should be translated to make sense. I am just proposing a
> >>>>>threshold of 80%.
> >>>>
> >>>> I prefer 100% because we want the translation to be complete and it
> >>>> will encourage people to reach this goal.
> >>>
> >>>So please answer also my other mail in this thread refering to
> >>>translation of account charts. When is a translation at 100%?
> >>
> >> Account charts are out of the scope.
> >
> >Ok. This is not a self-evident specification.
>
> Well it seemed obvious to me that not installed modules were not taken
> into account.

I would opt to include all official modules into that calculation (especially
when taking into account, that you are able to install each module from the
admin interface (which is good)).

> >Don't say 100%, if you don't mean it. One simple forgotten string and a
> >translation is not 100%. Say 90% of unfuzzy strings and you are at your
> >goal.
>
> I mean it.
>
> Translating might be hard, but I suppose that people testing Tryton in
> another language expect to see the software completely translated than
> having one or two fields written in English.

Forgotten to unmark as unfuzzy one string and not qualify for login display?

Please don't be harder to translators than to maintainers. In the past there
were several late string fixes in the freeze. No problem. But if a translator
is not able to follow a late string fix, this shouldn't qualify for the display
of the login?

Really, I think you are shooting in your own foot when requiring such absolute
limits.

BTW: According to your rule of 100% the German translation was the only one
qualifying for login display of version 2.8:

http://hg.tryton.org/2.8/trytond/rev/be99a0308026

I think you are much better off to some reasonable threshold value.

> >>>>>> - What to do when the application is translated but not the
> >>>>>> website?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Display it. Translation of the website for me has no relevance with demo
> >>>>>login.
> >>>>
> >>>> On the English translation I suppose.
> >>>
> >>>I don't understand what you are meaning here.
> >>
> >> Where do you display on the website the hypothetical demo_tlh
> >> (Klingon)? On every languages pages or on the English one?
> >
> >Now I understand better, that you are refering to logins for languages
> >without language for website.
>
> Yes that's the point that is quoted :D.

No. Untranslated website != Not existing language for website

> >I think it would be best to show all valid logins (with sufficient threshold)
> >on all pages.
>
> Once there will be a lot of language the interface will be cluttered,
> no?
> Of course, this problem could be solved later.

Ack.

[Albert Cervera i Areny]

2013/9/26 Axel Braun <axel....@gmx.de>:

First of all, let me say that I do not endorse Raimon's comments. I
think a better strategy for which languages are added should be found,
but don't think that has anything to do with politics or history, as
others have already stated.

That said, I'd like to ensure that what we're doing on TUB is
understood. The TUB will be on Friday and Saturday just like previous
years but this year a new day is added afterwards for the coding
sprint.

What we did is to take the chance to create a new event (not financed
at all by the Foundation) to promote Tryton to local companies. As you
will see the presentation of Tryton is just a little part of it
because we feel we first must promote free software and we think that
a round table with relevant people are a good way of doing it. We try
to make the event interesting and also present Tryton in it (it is
hard to find a notorious audience if you tell them you're going to
present Tryton, it is not wellknown yet).

Given the fact that the idea is to promote Tryton to local companies
it really has no sense to do it in English. Anyone in the Tryton
ecosystem will know everything we will talk about Tryton in that
presentation because it is just an introduction. I really don't think
it is worth a trip for anyone with some Tryton knowledge.

That said, if you think it should not be included in the webpage or
have any other concerns I'd like to know. Maybe we simply did not
explain that correctly in the web page. I don't know.

--
Albert Cervera i Areny
Consultor funcional
Tel. 93 553 18 03
@albertnan
www.NaN-tic.com

[Jordi Esteve]

On 26/09/13 11:16, Mathias Behrle wrote:
> * Nicolas Évrard: " Re: [tryton] Demo login user by languages - No
> countries" (Thu, 26 Sep 2013 10:03:30 +0200):
>

>> But the problem is :
>>
>> * Should we display on the demo page all the languages Tryton is
>> translated in ?

Of course yes: the translations are an important issue in any open
source project. It is good for the Tryton project than people can see it
is translated to several languages and can test it in a demo server easily.

If Tryton is translated into more languages​​, more potential users will
discoverand test it, and the Tryton project will be more successful.

>> * If the answer is yes:
>> - how to do it efficiently (Albert proposal is nice)?
> IIUC the proposal is to only show the login for the prefered browser language.
> This could be just english as default thus hiding all possible logins from the
> user.

I think is better to show all the languages that Tryton is translated
(with a minimum of quality, for example if it is translated > 80-90-100%
of the terms, see below). They are not so many: a successful and famous
open project usually has no more than 20 or 30 translations to different
languages. At this moment Tryton maybe has only 3-5 well translated
languages, so at this moment this is not a problem. When Tryton will
have 20 well translated languages, we can deal it.

>> - What is the threshold (if tryton is only translated at 5% I
>> guess we don't want to make the demo for that language)?
> The major part should be translated to make sense. I am just proposing a
> threshold of 80%.

For me 80% is right, but Nicolas says 100%. I think it is easy than any
language misses many few translation terms (or are fuzzy) and its rating
will down to 98-99%, so a more flexible threshold like 95% I think is
the best option. And I think the criterai must be applied for ALL the
tryton modules, not only the installed ones. All the modules are part of
the core of the Tryton project. But if Nicolas prefers only compute the
rate over the installed ones, no problem.

Tryton releases are very often, every 6 months. Maybe in one specific
release a language translation team has problems to upgrade completely
all the tryton terms, then is a pitty that a Tryton translation over
than 95% of the terms will be not available in the demo server for 6 months.

>> - What to do when the website is translated but not the
>> application?
> If there is no translation of the application you don't need a localized login
> of course.

+1

>> - What to do when the application is translated but not the
>> website?
> Display it. Translation of the website for me has no relevance with demo login.

As I said, I think is better to show all the languages that Tryton is
well translated to. They are so few at this moment ... :-(

>> - What to do with dialects (es_CO, es_AR, …)?

Dialects are also important to show. For example, Spanish from Spain
(es_ES) and Spanish from America (es_CO, es_AR, ...) have a lot of
different terms. However English dialects are more similar.

I understand that having all of them in a Tryton demo has a cost for
maintenance and people understands easily a dialect of their language,
so there is no hurry at the moment.

>> * If the answer is no:
>> - What is the impact of choosing only few languages?
> - We don't show the propagation of the project.
> - We don't show community work already done.
> - We don't hint fully at the localization capabilities of the application (which
> are excellent).
> - We get disputes like this about feelings in terms of identification with
> regions, nations, etc. with the drawback of getting accused to do political
> decisions instead of technical.

++++1 ( I agree with the 4 arguments).

>> - How do we decide which languages should be displayed? We
>> could use different list:
>> -
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_languages_of_the_United_Nations
>> -
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_official_languages_by_institution
>> -
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_widely_spoken_languages_(by_number_of_countries)
>> -
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_total_number_of_speakers
>> -
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_number_of_native_speakers
>> - I guess anyone can make up its own list in fact :D
>>
>> There might be of course other issues.
> I am clearly in favor of a translation threshold for the official application
> and modules.

Me too. A translation threshold is a good and unbiased criteria.

--
Jordi Esteve
Consultor Zikzakmedia SL
jes...@zikzakmedia.com
Mòbil 679 170 693

Zikzakmedia SL
Dr. Fleming, 28, baixos
08720 Vilafranca del Penedès

Tel 93 890 2108

[Cédric Krier]

As the discussion seems to have reach an ending point.
Here is what, I think, will reach the general opinion:

- The website should show only a demo user with the same language as the
page (+ the admin user).

- Defining a treshold for the translation is too difficult so if the
website is translated and the language exist in Tryton, it will be
enough to activate it on the demo.

- Other languages (not in the website) could be ignored for the demo.

- A language from the website could be removed if it is not enough
maintain, such removal should be decided in cosultation with the
original translators.

So we just need someone who volonteer to adapt the current
infrastructure to meet those goals.

--
Cédric Krier

B2CK SPRL
Rue de Rotterdam, 4

4000 Liège
Belgium
Tel: +32 472 54 46 59

[Raimon Esteve]

> So we just need someone who volonteer to adapt the current
> infrastructure to meet those goals.

I think login by locale is done review 1095003 (1)

About Tryton Demo script we need to improve what locales are available.

A. Add locales at top script and langs availables
langs = ['ca', 'de', 'en', 'es', 'fr', 'ru']
B. Others.

(1) http://codereview.tryton.org/1095003/

[Albert Cervera i Areny]

2013/10/3 Cédric Krier <cedric...@b2ck.com>:

> As the discussion seems to have reach an ending point.
> Here is what, I think, will reach the general opinion:
>
> - The website should show only a demo user with the same language as the
> page (+ the admin user).
>
> - Defining a treshold for the translation is too difficult so if the
> website is translated and the language exist in Tryton, it will be
> enough to activate it on the demo.
>
> - Other languages (not in the website) could be ignored for the demo.
>
> - A language from the website could be removed if it is not enough
> maintain, such removal should be decided in cosultation with the
> original translators.

Sounds good.

--
Albert Cervera i Areny
Consultor funcional
Tel. 93 553 18 03
@albertnan
www.NaN-tic.com

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