Re: Bollyn Responds to Sander Hicks' Charges of Anti-Semitism

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Sander Hicks

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Oct 8, 2016, 12:39:14 PM10/8/16
to Cat McGuire, Bonnie_Faulkner, The Truth Party, New Yorkers for 28 Pages Transparency, truth-action...@googlegroups.com, VN Alexander, Patrick Fahy, Lynn Ertell, Christopher Bollyn, Roy Kendall, cher...@aol.com, bsho...@gmail.com, wco...@911tap.org, arti...@gmail.com, 911te...@yahoogroups.com, lanky...@gmail.com, tmi...@911tap.org, 28pages.no...@911truthoutreach.org

Cat, you raise a good point here. As you imply, Bollyn does a poor job of defending the accusation of Anti-Semitism. 

He says, the passage in question was not in the final edition of the book. Dr. Tori Alexander points out that it's online in wide distribution, with no attempt to take it down. 

So, if the passage is NOT Anti-Semitic, or offensive, then why did Bollyn edit it? Clearly he realized it was incendiary. And self-defeating. Bad karma. Hate negates the hater. Simple.

This is what I found at Bollyn's talk, he's so obsessed with the Jewish role in 9/11, he ignores completely the US War machine and the spies and private corporations who pulled it off.

We are all such a mixed bag. There are elements of Bollyn's arguments that I find valuable.  For example, I found the one hour show he did on Bonnie Faulkner's show "Guns and Butter" to be relevant. Because up to that point, Bollyn's book was pretty repulsive, because of that passage which appears early in the book (EVEN in its edited form!)

So, I would much rather end this thread, and say this:

What is most IMPORTANT, to all of us, right now, is Exposing 9/11. 

Can I get an Amen? I'm talking The WHOLE thing. The CIA, the Pentagon, the private contractors, the insurance fraud, the Mossad, the Odigo Corporation, the art students, the Saudi Royals, Bandar, Pak ISI, and OF COURSE: PARTIES UNKNOWN. We, as a movement, have done a good job in the last 15 years. What else will we find in the next 15 years?

Let's stop fighting, or throwing rival events. 

When you stop, and read the highlights of what happened at Justice in Focus, you realize that 9/11 Truth finally has the legal team, of over 10 great lawyers. We have the strategies in place to finally effect a Congressional Investigation, or an Extraordinary Grand Jury. 

Please read my report. THIS is my focus. And the next TAP Meeting is Oct. 14, 7-9 PM at 6th St. Community Center, for people who want to do the work necessary to effect justice, in our lifetime. Time is short. Let's GO.



On February 27, 1860, Abraham Lincoln had a breakthrough moment in his political career, when he gave a major speech at Cooper Union. His research was impressive and his oratory was eloquent. He garnered much needed support for the anti-slavery cause. His Cooper Union speech catapulted Lincoln into front-runner status for the Presidential nomination. That single moment in the “Great Hall” changed history.

Likewise, 156 years later, the Great Hall at Cooper Union saw another spark of light in the dark night of American history. On September 10 and 11th, 2016, the Justice In Focus conference convened to hear legal evidence of high crimes and misdemeanors, science contradicting the official version September 11, 2001. Two new organizations dedicated to countering the fraudulent official story were launched, the Lawyers Committee for 9/11 Inquiry and the 9/11 Truth Action Project.

In the opinion of this reporter, this conference was nothing short of a breakthough, on the scale of Lincoln. The country is desperate for answers right now, masses of enslaved minds are on the verge of a new kind of slave revolt. 9/11 truth has come of age. It’s our time to change history.




On Fri, Oct 7, 2016 at 6:01 PM, Cat McGuire <c...@catmcguire.com> wrote:
Exactly, Tori!

The important issue the group was discussing was the role of likud zionists in 9/11.  Rather than deal with objective facts about that issue, Sander did what the zionists classically do, especially when they can't win on the facts (see Occupation of the American Mind documentary):  They distract from the issue by accusing people as anti-semitic. Everyone is then compelled to defend themselves, and the original important issue gets conveniently lost in the concocted slander drama.

Rather than sticking to 9/11, Sander maligned everyone who was interested in Chris Bollyn's research as nazi jew-haters and then injected an obscure quote from Chris about pornography to "prove" Chris was an anti-semite. So that how this whole conversation got sullied by the issue of pornography.

I agree with you, Tori. This discussion should never have allowed one individual to hijack it into a nonprofessional, name-calling witchhunt of a detour.


On Fri, Oct 7, 2016 at 5:52 PM, VN Alexander <alex...@dactyl.org> wrote:

I do not want to be part of a conversation about whether or not Jews "pushed" and "force fed" pornography on America.  (Examples???) I do not want to talk about whether Jews in the media are "foreign" or "unAmerican."  This has nothing to do with 9/11. If I'm getting these emails as part of the 28 pages list, then I would like to be removed.

Tori


On 10/7/16 5:31 PM, patric...@gmail.com wrote:
I agree with Lynn 100%
Big thanks to Christopher Bollyn for sending the email with such detail. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 7, 2016, at 1:34 PM, Lynn Ertell <lynne...@me.com> wrote:


Our thanks to Christopher Bollyn, for taking the time to respond and clarify in detail,

So far, I have no choice but to score these debate points objectively:

Bolllyn    6

Hicks      0   (zero)

(Plus, Sander's quoting from a single 2008 online conversational remark by Bollyn, isolated and OUT OF CONTEXT, has to be classed as intellectually lame.)






On Oct 7, 2016, at 11:13 AM, Christopher Bollyn wrote:

Christopher Bollyn Respons to Sander Hick's Charges of Anti-Semitism

I have been asked to comment on a paragraph I wrote for the first edition of “The Architecture of Terror: Mapping the Network Behind 9-11.”  This ultimately became Chapter VII of my book Solving 9-11:  The Deception that Changed the World. (See:  http://www.bollyn.com/the-architecture-of-terror-mapping-the-network-behind-9-11/)

(This chapter was sent to an independent fact-checker in England who examined 105 statements and found them to be 100 percent correct. See: http://www.bollyn.com/bollyn-research-proved-to-be-without-error/)

Sander Hicks, a New York-based critic of my work who calls me an anti-Semite, sent me the paragraph he thought was anti-Semitic. In email to others he said, “I supplied the quote from Bollyn's book that displays racism, hate and Anti-Semitism.”

First, I should point out that Hicks is not correct to say this quote is from my book.  The paragraph he provided is not even in the book.  The paragraph he provides was written in 2008 as part of the on-line edition, which was the first-draft material for the book which was published in 2012:

As an American raised with traditional Christian values, I realized that the culture I had grown up in was under attack and being reduced to a sub-culture. Through the Jewish-controlled media, a distinctly foreign and anti-Christian culture of pornography, perversion, and violence was being pushed. The producers of this "new culture" were primarily Jews of Eastern European origin. Through their control of the mass media, film, radio, and television networks, a diet of perverse entertainment and un-American values was being force-fed to the unsuspecting American people...

The paragraph in the book that was published in 2012 reads like this:

As an American raised with traditional Christian values, I came to realize that the culture I had grown up in was under attack and was being reduced to a subculture. Through the media, a distinctly foreign and anti-Christian culture of pornography, perversion, and violence was being promoted. A diet of perverse entertainment and un-American values was being pushed onto the unsuspecting American population through the mass media.

The fact of the matter is that the quote that Sander Hicks says “displays racism, hate and Anti-Semitism” is not even in the book.  Looking at the paragraph that was actually published in the book it is very clear that Hicks is completely wrong about it being any of the things he says it is.

This is what I wrote to Sander Hicks:

Sander, all the points I make in that paragraph are easily proven. They are, in fact, so well-known that they are agreed upon by anyone who has looked into the subject. You may not believe it, but I would ask you to simply examine each point and you will see that I have not lied or exaggerated about anything.

As the author of the draft version that I wrote in 2008, I am ready to defend what I wrote against the criticism of Sander Hicks.  To do so it is necessary to provide the paragraph in its proper context:

After spending several years in Europe, Israel, and the Middle East, I returned to the United States in the late 1970s and found the discourse in the media about Zionism to be extremely one-sided and distorted.  Zionism, a racist ideology if ever there was one, was grossly misrepresented in the U.S. mass media as being a progressive and democratic movement of national liberation, while the state of Israel was depicted as being a kosher slice of America in the Middle East. It was very clear that the people providing the distorted view of the Middle East were themselves Jews devoted to a very un-American political and racial agenda called Zionism, the violent and chauvinistic nationalism of Eastern European Jews who have occupied Palestine since 1948.

Honest and unbiased coverage of Israel and the Middle East became increasingly difficult to find in the U.S. during the 1980s and 1990s. The sale of Ted Turner's progressive Cable News Network (CNN) to Gerald Levine of AOL Time Warner and the transformation of the informative Christian Science Monitor marked the end of the last independent and unbiased news outlets covering the Middle East. An ethnic minority group with a foreign agenda – Zionism – had gained monopoly control over the U.S. mass media.  The Jewish monopoly of the U.S. media coincided with the United States being drawn more deeply into the Arab-Israeli conflict as the primary supporter, financier, and political ally of the Zionists.  This combination has been extremely detrimental for America and disastrous for the people of the region, as the criminal Israeli invasion of Lebanon in 1982 clearly showed.

Aware of the increasing prevalence and dominance of Zionist Jews in the political, financial, and academic sectors, I came to the conclusion that I was living in Jewish times. As an American raised with traditional Christian values, I realized that the culture I had grown up in was under attack and being reduced to a sub-culture. Through the Jewish-controlled media, a distinctly foreign and anti-Christian culture of pornography, perversion, and violence was being pushed. The producers of this "new culture" were primarily Jews of Eastern European origin. Through their control of the mass media, film, radio, and television networks, a diet of perverse entertainment and un-American values was being force-fed to the unsuspecting American population.

The part that Hicks says “displays racism, hate and Anti-Semitism” is the last four sentences of the final paragraph, so let’s look at what they say:

As an American raised with traditional Christian values, I realized that the culture I had grown up in was under attack and being reduced to a sub-culture.

I grew up in the Episcopalian church where I served many years as an acolyte. I was also an Eagle Scout and earned the God and Country Award. I observed that the Christian values that were essential guidelines of the culture I grew up in were very much under attack when I came back to the United States in the late 1970s after about three years spent in Europe and the Middle East.  

Through the Jewish-controlled media, a distinctly foreign and anti-Christian culture of pornography, perversion, and violence was being pushed.

The fact that an “anti-Christian culture of pornography, perversion, and violence was being pushed” is obvious to anyone who is familiar with American culture of the 1980s and 90s. The offensive phrase therefore must be that this was being pushed by the “Jewish-controlled media.”

It is an easily proven fact that the U.S. mainstream media is “Jewish-controlled.” Some of the sources which have documented this fact are:

“Helen Thomas on the Zionist-Controlled Media & Israel,” Bollyn.com, January 21, 2011
http://www.bollyn.com/helen-thomas-on-the-zionist-controlled-media-israel/

“How Jews Control the American Media” by Brother Nathanael Kapner, Real Jew News, 2008
http://www.realjewnews.com/?p=194

“Oliver Stone: Jewish Control of the Media Is Preventing Free Holocaust Debate,” Ha’aretz, July 26, 2010
http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/oliver-stone-jewish-control-of-the-media-is-preventing-free-holocaust-debate-1.304108

“Seven Jewish Americans Control Most US Media” by John Whitley, Rense.com, 2003
http://www.rense.com/general44/sevenjewishamericans.htm

“The Jewish Secret Society That Controls the U.S. Media” by Christopher Bollyn, Bollyn.com, December 1, 2009
http://www.bollyn.com/the-jewish-secret-society-that-controls-the-us-media/

The producers of this "new culture" were primarily Jews of Eastern European origin.

Again, an examination of who controls the media in the United States will show that this is the fact. CBS News is a good example to illustrate this fact:  Leslie Moonves, the great-nephew of David Ben-Gurion, the first Prime Minister of Israel, is the President and Chief Executive Officer of CBS Corp. 

Through their control of the mass media, film, radio, and television networks, a diet of perverse entertainment and un-American values was being force-fed to the unsuspecting American population.

The mass media has consistently pushed “a diet of perverse entertainment and un-American values.” One could write volumes on this subject, but as an good example of how this works I sent the following to Sander Hicks:

“Who Murdered Black Music?” by Mike King:




From: Roy Kendall <royjk...@hotmail.com>
To: Lynn Ertell <lynne...@me.com>
Sent: Friday, October 7, 2016 5:54 AM
Subject: RE: Political and ideological litmus tests.



CC: c...@catmcguire.com; cher...@aol.com; bsho...@gmail.com; wco...@911tap.org; arti...@gmail.com; 911te...@yahoogroups.com; lanky...@gmail.com; tmi...@911tap.org; 28pages.notifications@911truthoutreach.org
From: lynne...@me.com
To: sanderhi...@gmail.com
Subject: Political and ideological litmus tests.
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2016 14:17:07 -0400


So are we going to allow Bollyn to reply directly to Sander's public denunciation of his as "an anti-semite"?

Or are we going to preemptively suppress, censor and silence his TOTAL corpus of work, based on this single statement WITHOUT at least an invitation to debate or argument?

That looks weak.

Pending a fair and thorough debate between Sander and Bollyn, I see this as gatekeeping.

The rationale or excuse for reflexive gatekeeping ("self"-censorship), in trying to reject "wrong" ideas, based on a single statement (somewhat isolated from context), is now supposed to gatekeep against ALL the other valuable and useful EVIDENCE we need to muster against the 9/11 perps and their "deep state" apparat?

Sander, have you ever debated this with Christopher Bollyn?
Aren't we entitled to a little more than that?

How can you plausibly dismiss consideration of such vital and challenging issues as a "waste of time"???

- Lynn Ertell

 


On Oct 6, 2016, at 12:32 PM, Sander Hicks wrote:


Cat

You are wasting valuable time.

I absolutely reserve the right to walk away from this conversation. I refuse to let you waste any more of my time.

I supplied the quote from Bollyn's book that displays racism, hate and Anti-Semitism.

Here it is again:

As an American raised with traditional Christian values, I realized that the culture I had grown up in was under attack and being reduced to a sub-culture. Through the Jewish-controlled media, a distinctly foreign and anti-Christian culture of pornography, perversion, and violence was being pushed. The producers of this "new culture" were primarily Jews of Eastern European origin. Through their control of the mass media, film, radio, and television networks, a diet of perverse entertainment and un-American values was being force-fed to the unsuspecting American people... 


Cat,  

You have expressed to me personally that you think that this guy belongs at the Left Forum at 9/11 events. That is utterly laughable. It would result in Marxists and leftists running us out of town on a rail. You have tried to get this guy to be involved in the 15 year anniversary at the major 9/11 truth event. That would also be politically disastrous.

So on second thought I urge you not to come to the meeting on the 14th. This is the truth action project. We are building real political alternatives. We are building a real path of justice. We're building a large coalition of groups who have common cause with us. Christopher Bollyn and his rabid band of Nazi sympathizing fanatics have no place in this movement.  I just unfriended him on Facebook.

Sincerely, 

Sander Hicks 
regional coordinator 
New York State 
Truth action project 




 
 


On Thursday, October 6, 2016, Cat McGuire <c...@catmcguire.com> wrote:
Hi Sander - Could you please respond to Cheryl's specific information about the issue of Chris Bollyn being anti-semitic because he wrote about jews in the pornography business?  I am highly interested in knowing your response to her well-researched findings on a subject that you yourself raised. Could you please weigh in?  

Also, I'd like to point out that no one is "fighting."  I in no way, shape or form feel that this discussion has been hostile. 

Indeed, we are exploring -- amicably and professionally IMO -- extremely important issues:  the role of zionists in 9/11 AND the use of anti-semitism charges to shut down that exploration. 

I admire your desire for unity and solidarity.  However, a glib call to everyone to just all work together and join in a meeting stacked in favor of one side's positions is not very inviting. It's difficult to align with people who willy nilly hurl accusations and then go AWOL when factual information to the contrary is presented. 

Political collaboration entails trust and understanding. No one is asking you to agree with anything that has been said! But IMHO, it is incumbent on one to 1) refrain from negatively labeling people without supplying concrete evidence, and 2) when you do supply that evidence, not duck out of the conversation when seemingly credible counter evidence is provided.  

Working through thorny issues is what builds a movement. Ditching the conversation when the going gets tough is not a recipe for reaching common ground.  

I don't expect everyone to concur with all my views. I am transpartisan. I do, however, expect fellow activists to be forthcoming and transparent so that we can have a mutual understanding and build trust -- a key precondition for being in political alliance.

Thanks, Cat


On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 9:32 PM, Sander Hicks <sanderhi...@gmail.com> wrote:
Yeah I like Daniel Sheehan, and your idea as well. Let's "illuminate our common ground." Let's take action.

Let's not waste time fighting. 

Are you coming to the next TAP Meeting? It's Oct. 14 at 6th Street Community Center. 

On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 3:42 PM, <cher...@aol.com> wrote:
Sander - Just because you told Bollyn to his face that he was anti-Semitic, does not make it so.  Could you please explain which part of the paragraph that you included below proves that Bollyn 
is an Anti-Semite?  

"As an American raised with traditional Christian values, I realized that the culture I had grown up in was under attack and being reduced to a sub-culture. Through the Jewish-controlled media, a distinctly foreign and anti-Christian culture of pornography, perversion, and violence was being pushed. The producers of this "new culture" were primarily Jews of Eastern European origin. Through their control of the mass media, film, radio, and television networks, a diet of perverse entertainment and un-American values was being force-fed to the unsuspecting American people... Their influence could be seen in the way the U.S. government and federal courts unfairly prosecuted innocent people, including the president of Austria [Kurt Waldheim], on unfounded allegations of crimes having been committed decades ago against Jews in distant countries. As in the Soviet Union, Jewish criminals in America used the "holocaust" and the slanderous charge of anti-Semitism as a shield to protect their criminal network and extortion rackets by intimidating and silencing those who would dare to expose the monstrous crimes they were involved in."

Bollyn is not alone in discussing these ideas as you can see from these links:
(and on a side note, when I did a google search for "jews and pornography", it said that there were no articles found on that subject, so I switched to
​ ​
Internet Explorer and came up with many.many pages of articles.  Is google that inefficient of a search engine?)





So lots of other people have written about the topics that Bollyn has discussed in the paragraph above.  Does that make them anti-semitic too?  And if so, please
​ ​
tell me how does one talk about these issues without being called anti-Semitic?  

And then there's this statement you made (my comments in red):

"Granted,  what's unique about Israel though is that it's a conspiracy theorist's wet dream. Because, due to the Jewish religion being strong in the power structure of the USA, there are a lot of pro Israel people in places of power in the USA.
It's not the Jewish religion that's strong in the power structure,  it's the Zionists.  When you combine that with an anti-Semite like Christopher Bollyn, again, please provide proof that he's Anti-Semitic then you've got a natural sub-culture in the truth movement.  And I'm pretty sure, based on the number of speaking engagements that Bollyn has had on 3 US tours in one year, that this is not a sub-culture.  But it's a Dangerous sub movement to the larger movement that's trying to expose the US Masters of war, the military-industrial complex, and the CIA. All of whom are eager for a scapegoat. Or a red herring. Their strategy is divide and conquer."  This sounds like projection to me.  Those of us who endorse what Bollyn is saying, also are working to expose all of the 9/11 lies.  The neocons/Zionists/Mossad/Israel i leaders are a huge part of it.  

Sander, this is a direct quote from your book "Slingshot to the Juggernaut" (underlining is mine):

"But a significant number of neoconservatives in the Bush-Cheney administration were dual citizens of the US and Israel.  Total 9/11 Truth includes an analysis of the political ideology of neoconservatism and its close cousin,
the quasi-religious/political ideology of Zionism.  Both saturated the Bush-Cheney administration, ruining the members' ability to be objective. From a legal standpoint, it created a giant conflict of interest, one that borders on
treason, one that led to 9/11.  It turned this administration into creatures obsessed with war, conquest, and demonizing the Muslim people. The rise of neocon power is the manifestation of an amoral, Machiavellian demonic consciousness
in which violence and power need no excuse."  (pg. 163)

Sounds pretty similar to what Bollyn says.  

And I want to again endorse Wayne's idea, that we create a website with all of the information/evidence about "who did it" that we have as a way to analyse all of the possible players and
​ 
their interconnections.  If I remember correctly, Daniel Sheehan said at the Justice in Focus event that we should go into court knowing this.   It could also serve to unite us around all of
the data.
Cheryl
-----Original Message-----
From: Sander Hicks <sanderhi...@gmail.com>
To: Cheryl Curtis <cher...@aol.com>
Cc: Barbara Honegger <bsho...@gmail.com>; wcoste <wco...@911tap.org>; Les Jamieson <arti...@gmail.com>; Ned Delaney ned.d...@gmail.com [911telecon] <911te...@yahoogroups.com>; lankyleo14 <lanky...@gmail.com>; tmichel <tmi...@911tap.org>; 28 pages <28pages.notifications@911trut houtreach.org>
Sent: Tue, Oct 4, 2016 9:46 am
Subject: Re: I agree with Wayne 100 Percent on this ...

First of all, let's "illuminate our common ground."

I really did enjoy Bollyn's talk on "Guns and Butter." He clearly does have some information to contribute, about 9/11.

However, as I told him when I confronted him about his anti-Semitism, at his NYC event about 6 months ago, there is a clear passage of hate against the Jews, as a people, in his book, "Solving 9/11."

Here's the passage:


"As an American raised with traditional Christian values, I realized that the culture I had grown up in was under attack and being reduced to a sub-culture. Through the Jewish-controlled media, a distinctly foreign and anti-Christian culture of pornography, perversion, and violence was being pushed. The producers of this "new culture" were primarily Jews of Eastern European origin. Through their control of the mass media, film, radio, and television networks, a diet of perverse entertainment and un-American values was being force-fed to the unsuspecting American people... Their influence could be seen in the way the U.S. government and federal courts unfairly prosecuted innocent people, including the president of Austria [Kurt Waldheim], on unfounded allegations of crimes having been committed decades ago against Jews in distant countries. As in the Soviet Union, Jewish criminals in America used the "holocaust" and the slanderous charge of anti-Semitism as a shield to protect their criminal network and extortion rackets by intimidating and silencing those who would dare to expose the monstrous crimes they were involved in."


The Amazon reviewer who typed this up also has comments which reflect my views as well:

On his site he includes this thinly veiled anti-semitic quote from famed anti-semite, anti-Communist reactionary, Solzhenitsyn (whom he quotes in two separate posts on his site):
[...]

Basically i am quite open to the idea that 911 was a false flag operation.However people like Bollyn discredit the movement for 911 truth and make it very difficult to convince other people. Bollyn, Alex Jones, and their ilk are coming at the subject with an agenda and an ax to grind. We would be much better off if they kept their mouths shut. At times, it almost appears that they are agents of the very people they appear to be attacking. Disinformation is a classic technique of the intelligence services Bollyn writes about.

On Mon, Oct 3, 2016 at 3:38 PM, <cher...@aol.com> wrote:
Sander - All other disagreements aside, calling someone an anti-Semite is a pretty heavy charge.  Most in the 9/11 Truth movement, I believe, have
avoided publicly discussing the Israeli/Neocon/Mossad involvement in 9/11 precisely because they are afraid of being labeled anti-Semitic.  When someone
has the courage to do so, as does Christopher Bollyn, then he is labeled anti-Semitic, thus reinforcing the fears others have of speaking out on the
subject.

I have yet to see anyone who labels him as anti-Semitic actually challenge any of the evidence that he presents.  Silencing him seems to be the
goal, but challenging the evidence, not much said about that.

Please provide proof to back up you accusation that he anti-Semitic.

And, could you provide evidence that disputes what he says about 9/11?

Rather than just throwing out dismissive and divisive labels, please back up your statements with some facts/evidence.

Thanks,

Cheryl



-----Original Message-----
From: Sander Hicks <sanderhi...@gmail.com>
To: Barbara Honegger <bsho...@gmail.com>
Cc: wcoste <wco...@911tap.org>; Les Jamieson <arti...@gmail.com>; Cheryl Curtiss <cher...@aol.com>; 911telecon <911te...@yahoogroups.com>; lankyleo14 <lanky...@gmail.com>; tmichel <tmi...@911tap.org>; 28pages.notifications <28pages.notifications@911trut houtreach.org>
Sent: Mon, Oct 3, 2016 8:00 am
Subject: Re: I agree with Wayne 100 Percent on this ...
Yes Wayne is correct below. Israel is a client state of the USA. Not vice versa. We've got the multi trillion dollar economy. We send them money.  

It comes down to economics. The gross national product of the USA is 16.7 trillion. The gross national product of Israel is a paltry 239 billion.

That means that the entire economy of Israel is only 1.43% the size of the entire economic power of USA.

Granted,  what's unique about Israel though is that it's a conspiracy theorist's wet dream. Because, due to the Jewish religion being strong in the power structure of the USA, there are a lot of pro Israel people in places of power in the USA. When you combine that with an anti-Semite like Christopher Bollyn, then you've got a natural sub-culture in the truth movement. But it's a Dangerous sub movement to the larger movement that's trying to expose the US Masters of war, the military-industrial complex, and the CIA. All of whom are eager for a scapegoat. Or a red herring. Their strategy is divide and conquer.

And Cat,  I did finish the book that you recommended that I read. Against Our Better Judgement by Allison Weir.  I found it informative at times about the founding of Israel. I didn't know there was so much resistance in the United States ruling class to the founding of Israel. And it was fundamentally an undemocratic landgrab. 

However it's extremely incomplete. It doesn't even explain the Holocaust and how that was a motivating factor for the foundation of Israel.

Still I'm grateful that you bought me a copy and I appreciate it. Here's hoping that you will channel your energy is to be a positive part of the movement and not a divider.

We don't need the bad publicity about people like Christopher Bollyn at this crucial time.



On Friday, September 30, 2016, Barbara Honegger <bsho...@gmail.com> wrote:
 
   I agree 100 Percent with Wayne's below, which is the very thesis 
   set forth and supported in 'Behind The Smoke Curtain' ...  
 
 
So from what I have learned and observed over the years on the issue of "who did it," my best guess is:
 
1. Some CLZ's (Crazed Likud Zionist's) made the pitch to a clique of Treasonous Americans for what would become the events of 9/11
2. The clique of Treasonous Americans liked the pitch
3. The clique of Treasonous Americans were in a position to facilitate the plan
4. The clique of Treasonous Americans used their friends from around the world to help set things up
5. The clique of Treasonous Americans were greatly facilitated by the contacts and associates of the CLZ in America (and "American") who have become deeply embedded in the power structure
6. The clique of Treasonous Americans subcontracted out the most hideous tasks to the for the Mossad and other associated state-sponsored-criminals who would be delighted to help for both 1) money and 2) make the world a better place by starting wars against Iraq and Iran which would destroy them (Oh glorious day!)
7. The clique of Treasonous Americans gave the final OK
8. The clique of Treasonous Americans watched the events of 9/11
9. The clique of Treasonous Americans allowed the perpetrators to get enormous amounts of wealth out of the Twin Towers complex
10. The clique of Treasonous Americans began the disastrous war with Iraq (but Iran escaped immediate destruction - so far)
11. The clique of Treasonous Americans prevented any investigation of the events of 9/11
12. The clique of Treasonous Americans doesn't want JASTA (and somehow it got through with an enormous amount collateral-damage to the official story that is exposing that clique of Treasonous Americans)
13. The clique of Treasonous Americans will fight any "way forward using JASTA" because any litigation that they don't control can go very badly for some of the clique of Treasonous Americans
 
While the fingerprints of the Mossad and other associated state-sponsored-criminals are all over the crime scene and the preparation - it is the clique of Treasonous Americans that is ultimately responsible.  They gave the "green light" and called off the hounds of justice.
 
I also think that the clique of Treasonous Americans probably uses a Tel Aviv post-office-box because nobody can question what goes on over there.
 
I hope that this satisfactorily explains my position on the matter of why "I cringe when I hear the Israelis 'did it.' "
 
It is my guess that you don't disagree with anything I said here. 
 
To say the Saudi's did 9/11 is very incomplete. To say that the Mossad "did" 9/11 is extremely incomplete.  To say that the CLZs "did" 9/11 is extremely incomplete. 
 
It was the "clique of Treasonous Americans" that "did" 9/11.  These are the one we need to expose - the others are their bodyguards, hired thugs and other criminals accomplices. 
 
Thanks for the opportunity to put these thoughts down on paper.
 
-Wayne
 
 
 
From: "Wayne Coste" <wco...@911tap.org>
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 8:32 AM
To: arti...@gmail.com, cher...@aol.com
Cc: 911te...@yahoogroups.com, lanky...@gmail.com, tmi...@911tap.org, bsho...@gmail.com, 28pages.notifications@911truth outreach.org
Subject: Re: [911telecon] Re: Today's NY Times re JASTA: Fight between Saudis and 9/11 Families Escalates in Washington
 
Cheryl:
 
I realize now that the folks on the list that talked about the Common Ground Fair were going as attendees.  I thought that with the Mainr 9/11 group on the waiting list, they might have gotten in.  Sorry for mis-interpreting those emails.
 
Likewise, I also cringe when I hear the Israelis "did it."
 
The facts are that the treasonous Americans "did it" - with help from "their friends" from all over the world.  Yes, bad information keeps going around. I can use red letters also.
 
"This just goes to show how wrong information goes out once and propogates, while clarifying or corrective information has to be repeated many times and still doesn't get through."
 
A Saudi lawsuit will open the doors to the legal discovery process.
 
-Wayne
 
 
From: cher...@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 2:02 AM
To: wco...@911tap.org, arti...@gmail.com
Cc: 911te...@yahoogroups.com, lanky...@gmail.com, tmi...@911tap.org, bsho...@gmail.com, 28pages.notifications@911truth outreach.org
Subject: Re: [911telecon] Re: Today's NY Times re JASTA: Fight between Saudis and 9/11 Families Escalates in Washington
 
Wayne - You know from the emails that I did not attend the fair this year due to the last minute nature of our getting a table.
If your point in asking is to suggest that we may have had a better response due to the 28 pages and JASTA bill, in the past two
years that I have been involved with the tabling at the MOFGA we have repeatedly had a great response and nobody mentioned the 28 pages.  It would be very difficult to
judge if the 28 pages or the JASTA bill had anything to do with another great response this year.  
 
Since I wasn't at the fair, as you know, I can't speak to how the fair -goers felt about the Saudis.  I can tell you that in my own experiences in CT,
I have had people tell me that the Saudis did it.  It makes me cringe when I hear this, for the reasons Les expressed:
 
This just goes to show how wrong information goes out once and propogates, while clarifying or corrective information has to be repeated many times and still doesn't get through.
 
 
What is your opinion on the "Stay" (below) attached to the JASTA Bill?  Does it look like a loophole to you?
 
Cheryl
 
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne Coste <wco...@911tap.org>
To: artisan3 <arti...@gmail.com>; chercurt <cher...@aol.com>
Cc: 911telecon <911te...@yahoogroups.com>; lankyleo14 <lanky...@gmail.com>; tmichel <tmi...@911tap.org>; bshonegg <bsho...@gmail.com>; 28pages.notifications <28pages.notifications@911trut houtreach.org>
Sent: Tue, Sep 27, 2016 10:23 pm
Subject: Re: [911telecon] Re: Today's NY Times re JASTA: Fight between Saudis and 9/11 Families Escalates in Washington
 
Cheryl et al:
 
How did the Common Ground Fair in Maine go this year?  From what I see, you were able to get a booth there.
 
"Lynn and i had a very successful day at CGF, with more than enough material. But if anyone can come help her Sat/Sun, please do so she won't be by herself. I have a craft show in Boothbay show those two days. I was glad it rained so the dust settled! No hostiles, few skeptics (of our position) a good deal of curiosity, and some who very very knowledgeable.  Jon"
 
 
Is the reception to 9/11 Truth getting better in Maine?  Has the release of the 28 pages and the JASTA Bill in Congress made it easier to get the 9/11 Truth material out? Are they adamant that only the Saudi' did it?
 
-Wayne
 
 
 
 
From: cher...@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 12:35 AM
To: arti...@gmail.com, wco...@911tap.org
Cc: 911te...@yahoogroups.com, lanky...@gmail.com, tmi...@911tap.org, bsho...@gmail.com, 28pages.notifications@911truth outreach.org
Subject: Re: [911telecon] Re: Today's NY Times re JASTA: Fight between Saudis and 9/11 Families Escalates in Washington
 
Les - The point isn't about who included the "Stay" in the JASTA legislation, Schumer or the Republicans, the point is that it still seems, old news or not, that the stay allows the gov.
to block court cases for 180 days and can extend this indefinitely every 6 months for another 180 days.  In the "Stay" it says nothing about the family members having to approve of it - see the legislation below.
 
Also, you wrote:
This just goes to show how wrong information goes out once and propogates, while clarifying or corrective information has to be repeated many times and still doesn't get through.
 
Interesting that you would say this since you parroted the OCT while pushing for the 28 pages release and continue to parrot the OCT while pushing for JASTA.  You actually pushed
and are pushing wrong information - apply your statement above to that.  That's one of the reasons why some of us have repeatedly asked you to actually include 9/11 Truth information on your 28 pages
website and in your literature and when you speak in public.  
 
Here's the "Stay" legislation that was added to the JASTA bill - can't find anything in it that says the family members have to approve, and it sure looks like a loop hole to me.  Please show me specifically how I might be
wrong about that, cause this looks pretty straight forward to me.
 


 
-----Original Message-----
From: Les Jamieson <arti...@gmail.com>
To: Wayne Coste <wco...@911tap.org>
Cc: 911telecon <911te...@yahoogroups.com>; lankyleo14 <lanky...@gmail.com>; Cheryl Curtis <cher...@aol.com>; Timothy Michel <tmi...@911tap.org>; Barbara Honneger <bsho...@gmail.com>; 28 pages <28pages.notifications@911trut houtreach.org>
Sent: Tue, Sep 27, 2016 8:39 am
Subject: Re: [911telecon] Re: Today's NY Times re JASTA: Fight between Saudis and 9/11 Families Escalates in Washington
 
Wayne is right. The Schumer revision is old news. It's actually inaccurate. It was Republicans who made the changes to alleviate concerns that the language was too broad. Here's the correction which I posted here as well as the 911telecon list a couple months ago. This just goes to show how wrong information goes out once and propogates, while clarifying or corrective information has to be repeated many times and still doesn't get through.
 
 
 
Les
? 
 
On Tue, Sep 27, 2016 at 12:50 AM, Wayne Coste <wco...@911tap.org> wrote:
Tim:
 
This Schumer revision to JASTA is old news and had been discussed extensively before when the Senate voted unanimously for the bill. I had the same concerns as you about that language. 
 
But, apparently the 9/11 families think that the JASTA bill - even in its current form -  is worth fighting for.  And this is not just Terry Strada either. The article that we are planning to post has the three Jersey widows in from of the White House.  They are calling for JASTA to be signed by Obama (and todayfor the over ride).
 
 
We now have lots of people who know that the official story is a pile of bunk.  We need to amplify that into action.  Not always sure what the best way to do that is - but this JASTA bill gives us a great opening to question the 9/11 Commission report. 
 
I haven't written a letter to the editor yet (my excuse is too many 9/11 Truth Action Project administrative things to do), but that would be a great thing to do to - amplify the JASTA discussions in the public with a 9/11 truth message that will get through the media screeens.
 
-Wayne 
 
From: "Timothy Michel" <tmi...@911tap.org>
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2016 11:51 PM
To: 911te...@yahoogroups.com, lanky...@gmail.com, cher...@aol.com

Cc: bsho...@gmail.com, 28pages.notifications@911truth outreach.org
Subject: Re: [911telecon] Re: Today's NY Times re JASTA: Fight between Saudis and 9/11 Families Escalates in Washington
 
Wow, thanks for the heads up Cheryl. This is well worth the reading after the arguments for why JASTA needs to be passed.
 
Looks like JASTA needs a re-write before it goes back to the floor for a vote, but that would make it a new bill that would have to go through the committee process all over again before it is brought to the floor again for a vote.
 
These are called temporizing tactics and they are designed to make the issue moot before any resolution succeeds.
 
We need to believe that it is within our power to get resolution on these issues, I hate to say this, but it doesn't look like our legislators are up to the task.
 
 
This communication may be unlawfully collected and stored by the National Security Agency (NSA) in secret. The parties to this email do not consent to the retrieving or storing of this communication or any related metadata, as well as printing, copying, re-transmitting, disseminating, or otherwise using it. Any government employee who has sworn an Oath to defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies both foreign and domestic that retrieves, reads, copies prints, re-transmits, disseminates, or uses it in any way against the interests of me or the recipients is in violation of their Oath. If you believe you have received this communication in error, please delete it immediately.
 
Timothy Michel
911TruthOutreach Advocate
 
From: cher...@aol.com
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2016 11:37 PM
To: tmi...@911tap.org, 911te...@yahoogroups.com, lanky...@gmail.com
Cc: bsho...@gmail.com, 28pages.notifications@911truth outreach.org
Subject: Re: [911telecon] Re: Today's NY Times re JASTA: Fight between Saudis and 9/11 Families Escalates in Washington
 
Here's a loophole in the JASTA bill that will keep Israel and SA from being sued.  The link is to the full article by Wayne Madsen.  The red excerpt below explains this point.
 
http://www.globalresearch.ca/9 11%E2%80%B2s-conspiracy-trio-f alling-apart/5529028
 
 Schumer placed an amendment inside the JASTA bill that would allow Saudi Arabia to avoid law suits so long as the U.S. State and Justice Departments certified to the trial judge hearing any JASTA case that the two departments were making good faith efforts with the defendant country to resolve any issues bilaterally. Schumer’s amendment—the Stay of Actions Pending State Negotiations—would also allow the State and Justice Departments to seek from the court continual 180-day stays, thus killing any lawsuits indefinitely.
Israel is also concerned that it, too, could face lawsuits under the provisions of JASTA. WMR has previously reported that some of the footnotes in the classified 28 pages provide links that lead to Israeli involvement in 9/11. It is noteworthy that the Saudis are blaming the George W. Bush administration for carrying out 9/11 and are leaving Israel out of the equation. Schumer’s actions on behalf of the Saudis are a clear indication that the Saudi-Israeli alliance remains intact.
And here's a copy of the Stay of Actions Pending State Negotiations:
 
 


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