Texas Mormon Friend

[TexasNathan]

This is my first time here, so I'll introduce myself. My name is
Nathan. I'm a high schooler from central Texas. I've e-mailed Truth In
Love Ministries twice, and I find their websites so valuable to my
witnessing.

I have no "real" connections to Mormonism. I have no Mormon relatives,
just some Mormon friends. I'm a confirmed Lutheran Church - Missouri
Synod member, even! LCMS and WELS are practically the total antithesis
of Mormonism; we're even famous for our love for coffee (not to
mention our Faith Alone doctrine)! So I have no idea why God led me to
help my Mormon friends. The only thing that could possibly connect me
to Mormonism personally is that I visited Temple Square in Salt Lake
last June and was touched for the Mormons, like Paul was for the Jews
in Romans 10. That, and after a near-conversion to Mormonism after
praying about the BOM (only Gal. 1:8 and Gal. 2:21 saved me there)
I've been talking with my Mormon friends and have been reading
everything about Mormons that I could get my hands on. All I can say
is, God's given me a deep love and empathy for Mormons. But onto the
actual point.

I have been talking to a lot of my Mormon friends about the Gospel.
I'm especially working with a girl that I'm really good friends with,
a Mormon my age named Rachel. I don't know why God's giving me so many
oppurtunities to witness to her, either, because she's not exactly a
"Golden Prospect" for the Christian church. She's extremely strong in
her religion. She holds a recommend and deeply loves the prophets, the
BOM, the Church, all of it. I keep trying to witness, and I know the
Holy Spirit is working in her, but I don't see any sign of change
whatsoever. She listens, and I've never gotten her angry or offended
or anything, but my words seem to have fallen on deaf ears. I show her
a proof text, and she wiggles out of it. Every time I talk to her
about how feelings aren't good for discerning truth, she says, "But I
can tell that it's the Holy Ghost, not Satan." I've asked her how it's
possible that any of us could tell the difference, and she shows no
sign of change, even of considering it. It's to the point that a few
of my Christian friends have hinted that I need to give up on her and
try reaching somewhere else. A Mormon friend, accidentally overhearing
me sharing concerns about Rachel with a Christian, laughed and said
Rachel is probably the least likely Mormon to convert.

I can't just give up, I know I can't. The Holy Spirit is working in
her, I know it. I pray for her several times daily. It's just so
frustrating that I don't see any outward, distinct signs of change at
all, even a possible concession, and that I'm the only person in my
area, even among my Christian friends, that thinks there's any hope
for Rachel. That, and living in Texas, which is not exactly Mormon
country, I'm isolated from people who are involved in Mormon ministry
as well, which doesn't help. Sorry this has been so long, I wanted to
make sure nothing was misconstrued. It's a load off my heart to get
this down. I guess I just need prayers, advice, and maybe some
encouragement. Thanks.

[TILM]

Hi TexasNathan!
I have sent your prayer request to our prayer family here at
Truth in Love. You now have people from around the world praying for
you and Rachel. Thank you so much for being willing to be God's
ambassador to Rachel. Continue to be sensitive to God's promptings.
You may have to back off for a while and just pray for her, then
return to sharing the love and truth of Jesus with her. Does she ever
ask you questions or is it always you approaching her? Don't give up
on her, Nathan, unless God makes it clear to you to let her go -
praying that others will continue working on the seeds that you have
planted. But don't ever give up praying for her. Nathan, the Holy
Spirit is alive in you and the power of His Word is mightier than a
double edged sword. Take confidence in His work and His power. God
is definitely using you. Thank you so much!

Warm hugs in Him,
Lori

[sue]

Hi Nathan!
It is a blessing to hear from someone like you who has a heart
for God's people. And Mormons are God's people. We are all called as
Christians to reach out to these lost souls. I can think of none more
lost and deceived than those who follow the teachings of Joseph Smith.
As a parent I want my sons to be as strong in their faith as you
are. I thought they were well-grounded having gone through LCMS
Lutheran elementary school and Confirmation and were attending church
as young adults. Sadly, my older son Joel gave all that up to marry
sweet Becca a multi-generational Mormon. He won't even witness to her
about his faith, but instead, was baptized into the Mormon faith so
she would marry him. Please, stay strong in your Christian faith.
You know the teachings of the Bible. Share your faith with Rachel in
a loving Christian way. As a mother I will never give up praying for
Joel and Becca to know the real Jesus as their true and only Lord and
Savior. Never stop praying for Rachel's eyes to be open to the truth
and love of Jesus.
What about your parents? Do they know and are they supportive
of your mission to reach out to the Mormons? In my home I am the main
one to study and learn how to witness to Mormons, and I share with my
husband and younger son Jason who are supportive and we share and pray
together for Joel and Becca. We need our families for support and
encouragement.
Are you considering going into the ministry? Concordia,
Austin, maybe? The Lutheran Church needs pastors to minister to
Mormons. I don't know of any in the LCMS. WELS has Pastor Cares.
The Texas District(LCMS) does have a missionary to the Jehovah
Witnesses but none to the Mormons. I haven't been able to spark much
interest in the district except with my own pastor, but I won't quit.
You said you have been in contact several times with TILM. I
hope you have Pastor Cares book and DVD and Becki's DVDs. These
materials have been a great help to us.
My husband especially likes their pamphlets, particularly the one
titled Perfection.
Hope to hear from you again.
Blessings to you,
Sue from Texas

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[Echo]

Hi TexasNathan!

It's wonderful that you are witnessing to your female freind, don't
ever give up on her. It's no wonder God chose you to witness to her
and to provide you with so many opportunities to do so, everyone else
doesn't think it's possible but you do!

Keep sharing the gospel with her whenever God provides the
opportunities.

If you have any questions for us specifically, don't hesitate to ask.

Hugs
Echo

[TexasNathan]

Dear Mrs. Sue
I've been praying about my calling, and I'm fairly sure I'm going to
be in the missionary field. Whether that's to Mormons, I don't know.
But right now I have little doubt what my present calling is in high
school, and I'll keep praying about what happens after that.
I don't think LCMS as a whole has any formal ministry to Mormons. We
just have our Report from the Commission on Theology and a "What
About?" pamphlet about Mormons, but I think there is very little
understanding in LCMS on just how much there needs to be a mission to
Mormons, and how to go about that. That obviously needs to change.
Mormons have special needs in witnessing (terminology differences,
culture, etc.), and the needs of this group need to be met just like
any other.
My family is mostly supportive. They worry sometimes about me getting
in "too deep", or worse, that I might get sucked in. But I know the
signs of obsession and such, and I'm nowhere near that. It's not like
I spend 8 hours a day researching Mormonism or something. :) And as
for getting sucked in to Mormonism, I'd never give up my faith in the
true Jesus Christ for anything. Heaven knows a few missionaries on
mormon.org have tried.
I've ordered Pastor Cares book, and I've ordered pamphlets for my LDS
friends and for my youth group. By sheer coincidence, my youth group
will be going over Mormonism in Sunday school in a few weeks, and
according to the youth director, she's going to let me speak for a bit
on my experiences. I hope I can spark a desire to witness to Mormons,
at least in my church.
In Christ,
Nathan

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[sue]

Hi Nathan!
God is faithful to answer our prayers and when the time is right He
will
answer your prayers and direct your calling. Let's also keep praying
for our
church body to become aware of the need to reach out not only to
Mormons but
also others trapped in cults. You are right, the Lutheran Church
Missouri Synod
does not have any formal ministry to Mormons or any other cults, but I
do know
that seminary students use to have to take a class called Religious
Bodies
which, at least, gave them the basics of major cults. I don't know if
it is still required.
I'm glad your family is supportive and it is very natural for them
to be concerned
for your spiritual direction. As a parent, I understand their
concerns. My husband worries about me in my studies for the same
reason. Like you, I know the true and living Jesus and I will not
leave him. When my son first started looking at the Mormon
teachings and I asked him questions about it, he would tell me to ask
the experts meaning the LDS missionaries. I did my research with
Christians and yes, I have met
several missionaries and refused to accept their teachings. They got
up to leave saying
"They were not going to cast their pearls before swine." It sounds
funny, but it's really sad because they don't have the pearls, we do
and we certainly need to share those beautiful pearls of God's love.
You've got some excellent resources coming with your book and
pamphlets. Study them well. You and your youth group and Rachel are
in our prayers. Let us know how your presentation goes. With the
Lord you will do great.
Blessings,
Mrs. Sue (I like that- friendly and polite)

[TexasNathan]

I had a disastrous discussion with Rachel today. Worst-case scenario,
almost.

This morning was great. I prayed with a lot of friends about Craig,
the man mentioned in the TILM newsletter, that his fath might be
strengthened. To make a long story short, Rachel Cox was getting tired
of the religious discussions we've been having. I've realized that
I've been doing a horrible job of telling her the Gospel, focusing on
minor doctrine rather the major doctrines of perfection and salvation,
so that's sadly understandable. I asked her if I could spend lunch
with her to have enough time to talk to her about the Christian gospel
in whole rather than just what she heard from me on the way to her
next class. She relunctantly agreed. At lunch, she seemed somewhat
receptive. She was interested as I bore my testimony of Jesus Christ,
and as I told her about what Jesus had done with my life, I could feel
the Spirit in the discussion. I was showing her Bible passages, and
working with the Word of God, and something was clicking, I could
tell. I told her how I was so worried about her salvation, because
Mormons try to establish their own righteousness instead of trusting
in the righteousness of God (Romans 10:1-4). I told her I was scared
(and I really am) for the spiritual danger she was in. I showed her
that our righteousness is like filthy rags compared to God's
righteousness (Isa. 64:6) and how, though God expects perfection
(Matt. 5:48) Jesus made us perfect in God's sight by His sacrifice on
the cross (Heb. 10). Basically, except for my personal experiences, I
let the Bible do the talking. Things were clicking, and me telling her
about the peace that comes from knowing Jesus Christ was striking a
chord as well.

Then, her friend broke in, saying "Is that Nathan trying to convert
you again?" As far as I can tell, her friend is either an agnostic or
a liberal-theology Christian (she doesn't believe in Biblical
inerrancy, holds to salvation of "good" people, etc.). I was floored.
This was supposed to be a conversation between Rachel and me, first of
all. When two people or more gang up on me, how am I supposed to
respond? Second, she was making all these claims about how the Bible
has been distorted, how people can make it to heaven if they're good
enough, why couldn't I just be "loving" and leave Rachel alone, etc..
I can hold rational discussion, but when people like this are making
such claims, ridiculing my beliefs, and then laughing at me when I try
to defend myself... I froze up. Rachel was laughing at me, too. It was
as if she and her friend were sharing an inside joke about me to my
face, making fun of me because I believed such "ridiculous beliefs".
Can't tell you how much that hurt. Next thing I know, I'm "majoring in
the minors" of Biblical translation, transmission, and interpretation,
and I can't find a way to get the discussion back on track.

It gets worse. We leave for the classroom, and I'm totally shaken up
(I was literally shaking, I was so shocked and stressed) and then an
acquaintance of mine takes me aside and starts scolding me for
"throwing the Bible" at Rachel. I was having a rational conversation
that Rachel agreed to, for crying out loud! He said it doesn't convert
people. I honestly felt like shouting at him that when he spends the
next few months researching Mormons and reads every book he can get
his hands on about evangelizing to them, and when he's scoured the
Bible on how to witness, he can instruct me on evangelizing to Mormons
then, but till then... and he thought going on three mission trips
somehow made him an expert on evangelizing. Well, not really. I don't
want to be too mean in describing him. He meant well, but it was a bad
way of doing it and an even worse selection of timing. I still like
and respect him, but he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. It
started so well, and then it turned into an utter disaster. It hurt
(and still hurts) so much that I was making progress, and now it's
worse than before. Then, the last thing Rachel said to her friend
about me really hurt. Her friend asked her why I made such an effort
to "convert" her, when she doesn't do the same in reverse. Rachel
said, "I don't try to convert Nathan, because he's too prejudiced to
accept Mormonism." That hurt so much. I love Mormons. If I hated them,
I would leave them alone. I can't tell you how many times I've made
that clear to Rachel by words and actions. I even told her that at the
very beginning of the discussion, no less. That's why I had to leave
right after I finished my history quiz, I cried and prayed. It was
horrible. I'm still crying about it. I sent her a loving but sad
letter explaining that it was not hatred and prejudice that was why I
worried so much about her salvation, but that it was because I cared
about her. I didn't get angry, didn't shout, didn't make vengeful
comments. I was just confident, then spooked, then absolutely crushed.

The big question is where do I go from here with Rachel? A good
question before that would be if there is anywhere I can go from here
with Rachel, besides praying for her, obviously?
In Christ,
Nathan

On Feb 23, 2:44 pm, TexasNathan <Theologian6...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

[sue]

Dear Nathan,
I am sorry you had such a difficult time. You know the Holy
Spirit was
with you through all of that. You were not alone at any time. Some
things
were out of your control. It sounds like you've been reading Pastor
Cares book
and were keeping in the Word. Anytime we are doing the work God calls
us to do, Satan can come against us. You experienced that the other
day, but
do not lose heart. Remember, You are of God, Nathan and have overcome
them(evil spirits), because He who is in you is greater than he who
is
in the world. 1 John 4:4.
Everyone who witnesses of Christ at one time or another probably
has had a
similar experience, but we can't quit because that is what Satan
wants. Once,
when I was witnessing I could actually feel the presence of evil.
You said that Rachel was listening until you got interrupted. You
planted the
seeds, you have to trust the Lord to grow those seeds of faith in
Rachel and bring
them to harvest. He may call someone else to finish the work you have
begun.
Right now I would encourage you to continue to pray fervently for
Rachel. Trust
God to show you if or when to continue witnessing to her. You can
continue to be a witness just by your actions and your attitude.
Perhaps, in time, she will come to you asking to learn more. That is
our prayer.
This morning in the Bible class I attended we were studying
Colossians 4.
I saw several verses that spoke to my needs and maybe yours too.
Verse 2 says Continue earnestly in prayer, being vigilant in it with
thanksgiving; meanwhile praying
also for us that GOD WOULD OPEN A DOOR for the word to speak the
mystery
of Christ... Continue to read through verse 6.
Remember to forgive Rachel and your friend because sometimes,
they
don't know what they are saying. Continue to show the Kindness of
Christ.
Sometimes when I tried to talk with my son, he was the one who become
angry and yelled, but my husband and I always remained calm. I
believe that
to be the power of the Holy Spirit and he is working in you, Nathan.
I'd like to share this with you, Nathan. My little children,
let us not love in work or in tongue, but in deed and in truth. And
by this we know that we are of the truth and shall assure our hears
before Him. 1 John 3:18, 19.
Blessings to you, my young friend. You are in our prayers.
Mrs. Sue

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[erins...@gmail.com]

Dear Nathan,

Oh how I have been praying for you and your friend Rachel since you
have written on the website. Mrs. Sue, thank you for all you loving
kindness! Nathan, I am so proud of you. Did you read that, proud of
you, for listening and accepting the call to reach out to the people
you care about. A lot of people who follow Christ have been attacked
and I KNOW it is extremely hard and can be tearing on the soul. You
are in high school and you are sharing truth in love; wow I am so glad
God has given you such a passion!! Please know my family is holding
you and your friends in prayer.

(Speaking of the girl who believes that being a "good" person can
allow one to dwell in the presence of the Lord; I used to be one of
those people. Truthfully, no one in middle school or high school ever
shared the gospel with me or I was too blind to even hear. All I
thought was that I had to fear God and do good and that was the way he
would recognize me. UNTIL a dear college friend shared God's Love
through Jesus with me. I had never heard of a forgiving Jesus. So...
all that to say I hope, in time, you can reach out to the girl who
does not know the Gospel, the girl who interrupted you and Rachel at
the lunch table. I know that might be a lot to ask but I hope either
you or someone else can tell her the Truth. She really does not know
what she is saying, because I used to say that all the time and I
never knew the impact it had on my friends. I look back and pray that
they will come to know the Lord and not remember what I said and what
SO MANY BELIEVE.)

Also, I am with you, Nathan, in being persecuted. My own family has
led me to tears and said such hurtful things. My mother told me I was
not tolerant because I only believed the Bible and in Jesus Christ as
Savior and my own father told me I might as well be in a cult and
strap something to my back. So I TOTALLY understand the Enemy's
craftiness and hurtful attacks. However, as stated above, He who is
in (you) is greater than he who is in the world.

I admire you, Nathan. Keep pressing on, my prayers and my husbands
prayers are with you!!! Surround yourself with other followers of
Christ who you can share your struggles and concerns about the Mormons
with. I know it might be hard to find those people, but I know you
and I believe in such a Powerful Creator that He can do ABSOLUTELY
ANYTHING. He is Absolute and there is no changing Him; He knows the
outcome to this and all you will go through so In Christ Jesus name,
through the power of the Holy Spirit, may you always have such a
fervent heart for the lost.

Go as Jesus would,
Love ESH

[TexasNathan]

Dear Mrs. Sue and ESH,

God certainly sends His blessings through you. Your encouragement is
invaluable. Rachel has not asked me any questions concerning doctrine
at all, but she has made some comments such as "You need to be more
accepting of certain things, Nathan," when I was talking with another
friend about textual criticism (in general, not Biblical textual
criticism, even). However, she didn't say it in an angry way, but more
of an amused way. She had (before our last discussion) mentioned the
line, "Put a little faith in the Book of Mormon, Nathan -- You put a
little into it and you get a lot out of it!" Maybe she's trying to
open discussions to try to get me to believe the Book of Mormon. Who
knows? Maybe her desire to prove to me that the Book of Mormon is true
will give me other opportunities to show her that Christianity is
true.

I also heard from another Mormon friend named Ammon that she talked
about me "in church", but "she didn't say anything mean". I didn't ask
further because I figured it wasn't my business what Rachel said about
me, and I didn't want to put her on the spot or embarass her by asking
her. I don't know what Ammon meant by "in church"; if he meant during
the fast and testimony meeting that weekend, that might not be good.
If it was during seminary or something, that might mean I raised
questions. In any case, perhaps her mentors will encourage her to
continue bearing testimony to me, which could give me an opportunity
to bear testimony of the Bible and Jesus Christ to her.

After that disastrous discussion, I must admit I was quite shaken. For
a few weeks, I had a hard time remembering to pray for Rachel, or any
Mormon, for that matter, where before it was not only easy to
remember, but a joy to remember to pray for them. It might be because
I was really hurt, and Satan was encouraging maybe an unconscious (but
shameful) malice. Fortunately, it seems to be over; I'm praying, I'm
studying, I'm again working whenever and however I can for Rachel and
my other Mormon friends. If I could just find an opportunity.

On another note: I'm going to see a passion play on Saturday called
Easter Triumph (perhaps you've heard of it), which is supposed to be a
great witness; it's been running for fifty years in my area. Would it
be wise to invite a Mormon friend of mine? Perhaps Ammon? I don't know
about Rachel. She might spook at even the possibility of a spiritual
discussion now. Oh well. She has a copy of Luther's Small Catechism
(the edition that quotes the KJV); I gave it to her months ago. She
says she has trouble with Biblical interpretation. Maybe she'll look
to the catechism occasionally. Who knows?

Thank you for your prayers, both Mrs. Sue and ESH, thank you so much.
They help, believe me. I feel a lot more encouraged, and I know the
Holy Spirit is with me. Thank you.
In Christ,
Nathan

On Mar 5, 10:03 am, "erinsig...@gmail.com" <erinsig...@gmail.com>
wrote:

[TexasNathan]

Just something notable:
It was bound to happen someday:
I was chatting with Rachel on Tuesday, and she mentioned that she had
talked about me to a couple of missionary sisters, and that they
expressed an interest in visiting me. So, she asked if that would be
okay with me, and I told her I'd have to check with my parents. My
parents are thinking about it but I have a feeling they're leaning
against it. Specifically, my mom thinks I'm getting "too deep" into
"this Mormon thing" and thinks I'll get into an argument, and my dad
wonders if it's even possible to share the Gospel effectively with
missionaries. I think that this would be an opportunity to share the
Gospel, and if I say no, maybe it would be a sign of timidity to
Rachel, maybe damaging my credibility. I'd like y'all's input.
In Christ,
Nathan

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[TILM]

Dear Nathan,
These are my two cents' worth :) ..... How about talking to your
parents, expressing your desire, perhaps setting boundaries/
limitations (i.e. if it gets to a point of arguing, come in and let me
know and I'll end our discussion/meeting right away, etc. with no "but
Mom" :) ), tell them that you will stick to the Word of God and that
His Word is not wasted, tell them that you would like to give it a try
- the missionaries may not return a second time - and that if they
feel uncomfortable after the first visit, you will honor their wishes
and not visit with them again, etc. However, if they still wish that
you don't visit with them, you will need to honor your parents since
you are still living "under their roof". God will honor your
obedience to Him in honoring your parents' wishes - and He will work
all things out for the good of those who love them - His promise that
we can trust. AND pray, pray, pray!!! Keep everyone involved covered
in prayer - for me, that helps keep my focus off myself and onto God
and others. And Nathan, I will be praying for you and this
situation. Please keep us posted.

Warm hugs,
Lori

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[TexasNathan]

My dad's main concern is that things will get contentious and he
doesn't want to be rude by essentially saying that the conversation is
going nowhere and hinting they need to leave or something. He suggests
meeting in a third party location, like a park or something, so that
if things get out of hand, he can say "we" need to go, instead of
hinting that they need to leave. I've never heard of missionaries
meeting in parks or something, so I don't know. If my dad says no,
then it's no, but I'd hate to miss that opportunity.
Nate

[TILM]

Dear Nathan,
I have been reading your all of your e-mails. I thank God for your and
your love for the people trapped in the Mormon religion. I want to
encourage you to continue to be a witness for our Lord Jesus Christ to
these people especially your friend Rachel. As far as the missionaries
are concerned I believe that anytime you have an opportunity to
witness to them God will use his word through you. Like Lori I
encourage you to respect your parents in their decision. If you read
my post you will see that I am married to a Mormon and I have
missionaries at my house all the time. I try to use the Bible and my
testimony all the time and not discuss things concerning their
doctrine. I have witness to many missionaries and do not know if any
of their lives have been changed through my witness but, I do thank
God that I am able to plant a seed that he can nourish. As I have told
many of the missionaries, it seems odd that all of their testimonies
are basically the same and none of them talk about what a change God
has made in their lives. Again I thank God for you and will be praying
for you. Encourage any of your Christian friends to get involved in
witnessing to the Mormon people. There are so many people afraid to
witness to Mormons or really don't know that these people are not
Christians. Tell your Mormon friends that you LOVE them and show
them.
In Christ Love,
Alan

On Apr 1, 4:08 pm, TexasNathan <Theologian6...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

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[sue]

Hi Nathan,
Please, do work this out with your parents. Lori and Alan have
both given
excellent advice. I would add that I think you should have at least
one of your
parents, if not both with you whereever you meet with the sister
missionaries.
That is if your parents give the OK. They are your spiritual
covering. Be obedient to them. Also, have them read some of Pastor
Cares' book, particularly the chapter on witnessing to missionaries.
If and when you do plan to meet, schedule
it so you have about a week to prepare and pray and we will be
praying, too.
You can meet at a neutral place, even someplace like McDonald's
during
their slow time. I felt a little uncomfortable meeting with them in
my home.
Maybe I shouldn't have. Once I met with some older missionaries at my
son's
office. But my son was the one who wanted me to meet with them.
Pastor Cares talks about setting the guidelines such as being
willing to talk
with them but letting them know that you are not going to pray to know
that
the BOM is true and that JS is a true prophet. I didn't do that the
first time
because I was at my son and daughter-in-law's home and I (at that
time) did
not want them(family members) to close off discussion with me. The
second time
I met with them at my school they brought the bishop's wife with
them. It was
not a good meeting. They did come back at third time. I was able to
give my testimony to the Bible and Jesus Christ as my Savior and why I
did not need to pray about BOM and JS. That's when they left. That
was almost a year ago. I don't know where these young ladies are now,
but I pray that the seeds I planted with grow at the right time.
Sister missionaries are usually about 21 or 22 while the young
elders are usually 18 - 20. Figuring that Rachel will come, too, you
need to have someone with you for backup. It is a good opportunity to
witness of God's great love for us that while
we were yet sinners, He died for us. Your mom is right, do not argue
with them, just allow the Holy Spirit bring forth the words. My
faculty right now is studying
Acts. What a difference the Holy Spirit made in the lives of Peter
and Paul in completely turning around their lives and the lives of the
other disciples. Without the power of the Holy Spirit in their lives
then we wouldn't be posting on this message board today. Praise the
Lord!
Blessing to you, Nate, in the Name of our Risen Lord and Savior,
Mrs. Sue

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