Food for thought: the lost art of the group ride

[Ian Joyce]

Lonnie Richardson shared an article via Facebook that is so good I want to pass it along to the group. The writer completely nails why group rides have gotten so bad. And everything he says on the subject applies to our little corner of the cycling world.

http://carolinacyclingnews.com/2011/09/01/lost-art-of-the-group-ride/

Ian

[Ashley Powell-ash@catup.com]

The A rides on Thursday at the church and Deoro on Sunday have changed
quite a bit recently to address some of these same concerns.

[Ashley Powell-ash@catup.com]

Stand up and be counted if you rode in the rain last night. Without
complaining.

To accelerate the drying, stuff your shoes with newspaper and lay 'em on
the floor in front of the refrigerator.

[Tom Noll]

Yes sparky and 2 taters rode last night. It was a lot of fun. Thanks for the old school newspaper trick

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[Jonathan Neely]

Great article. A person I work with said he almost hit a cyclist on Lake Brandt Rd. Monday night that darted out from a pace line to "break away" to the front.

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[Patrick Eilers]

Great article and covers many of the reasons why I rarely ride in groups anymore.

Pat

Patrick Eilers Photography
www.patrickeilers.com
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336-392-9844

You can thank my iPhone for any misspellings.

[robert Adams]

Great article, agree with Pat. I am almost 60 and most rides turn into a
competition.
Wouldn't it be great to ride in a group and not chase.

Robert

[Roy]

This is also why I don't participate in "group" rides anymore. After
the first "break way" I end up riding with myself or the group I came
with, so why bother to show for a scheduled group ride.

[dhill37]

Great article. Thanks for sharing.

On Sep 1, 11:35 am, Ian Joyce <psycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Michelle Horvath]

It makes me sad that the response to the article "The lost art of the group ride"  was Death to the Group Ride!  Really, GSO has a large number of really well-led and fun group rides.  We are fortunate to have an extensive and varied cycling community where everyone should be able to find someone to ride with.   I don't profess to be any expert in group riding and I am still learning but I'd like to pass on some of the things I've learned riding, reading and watching the Tour to newer cyclists who may be just learning how to ride in a group (and some older cyclists who may need reminding....)

1.  DO draft.  Riding close to the wheel in front of you is a skill that needs to be developed and practiced- it is best done at first in a smaller group.  Ask someone on a given ride to allow you to practice with them.   Another  good way to learn to draft (if you don't have friends to practice with) is to join a group that is a little slower than your regular pace.  That way you pull more if you are uncomfortable with drafting at first and it gives you time to understand the dynamics of the group ride.  If you are unwilling to even learn how to draft please don't expect the group to wait for you.

2.  DO take a turn at pulling.   There is a natural handicap system built into group riding.  Stronger riders will pull longer and more often than the weaker riders.  This provides both groups with benefits.  First, the weaker riders have the ability to ride at faster speeds and will be pushed a little harder than if they ride alone.  But everyone forgets that even if the stronger riders are going slower than they normally would, it takes more effort to pull than to ride alone.  Pulling provides stronger riders with a more intense workout.  There is no advantage to consistently going off the front of a group to ride alone except for one's ego.  If you are a weaker rider, pull for just a short time (10-15 sec) on occasion just to show your appreciation to the group but don't pull for long-you'll be exhausted and left behind afterward.

3.  DO find out how fast or slow a group intends to be.  You should know if you can maintain that average speed over the terrain on the planned route (someone who averages 16 mph on flats may be going much slower on a ride with steep hills.)  A group works best if there isn't a huge differential between the riders.  Fortunately, a lot of the ride leaders in GSO will split up a group accordingly to accommodate bigger differences in average speeds.  That said, 

4.  DO sometimes show up to a ride that you know is "out of your league"-  it makes you a stronger rider to ride with more advance riders.  But don't expect them to change their average speed for you.  Hang on for as long as you can and then wave an ok when you drop off.  Just be prepared to come home alone (if there isn't a cue sheet make sure you know the area.)

5.  DON'T surge the moment you take over pullling!!!!!!   Before it's your turn to pull, pay attention to the average speed the group has been maintaining.  That means you should know the average speed for the flats, hills and downhills since most rides will not maintain a steady pace for these terrain changes.  When the rider in front of you swings off, maintain whatever pace he/she had and keep the pace within the range set by the terrain.  Pay attention to the riders behind you and slow or speed up only as needed to keep everyone together.  If suddenly it's very easy to ride on the front, look back- you've left everyone behind.  Sit up and wait for everyone to come back together. 

6.  DON'T worry if a few go off the front never to be seen again.  Let 'em go.  Their loss.

7.  DON'T worry if the group is varied enough that it gets split up on hills.  That's what STOP signs are for.  If everyone has agreed to regroup at certain places, i.e. signs and convenience stores, resist the urge to race off as soon as the last rider has made it there.  Let them catch their breath and recover too.  They will stay closer to the group for longer that way.

8.  DON'T sandbag!  Nothing breaks up the rhythm of a group like a couple of knuckle heads who sit in the back of the pack and never take a turn at the front, yet race up every hill or worse yet, drop everyone in the last 20 miles to make it back first.  Drafting saves up to 30% of your energy.  There is no pride in racing ahead of everyone who just pulled your butt for the last 60 miles.  Use that energy instead to take your turn pulling.  

9.  DON'T hit your brakes while drafting if at all possible.  Instead watch ahead and adjust your speed by sitting up and catching the wind.  Riding in a pack takes some practice to also avoid having to alternately surge and brake to keep pace.  The more group riding you do, the more you understand how to keep the wheel in front of you with a more even effort.  If you do need to brake, brake gently ("feather the brakes") to avoid the person behind hitting your wheel.

[Allan Goldfarb]

Very good.    Keeping the group together takes effort by all and it makes the ride more enjoyable.   Thanks for adding these.

[Ian Joyce]

Sensible advice, Michelle. 

Here's another thought, and something I've advocated for a long time: Get rid of the A/B/C ride ratings, which only consider speed and distance. Just because someone can ride 15-17 mph for 2-3 hours (http://greensborovelo.com/cue_sheets.htm) doesn't make them a B, or advanced intermediate, rider. The message here is that bike handling and group riding skills aren't a factor. 

[Susan]

I haven't cycled in a whilebut when I did....the most experienced in the group would sometimes get the sloppiest! They were comfortable...look back...turn as the did....I'd hang to the back not just because I'm not fast but out of safety 

Susan

[Mary Hughes]

And replace the A/B/C system with what, Ian?

On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 11:19 PM, Ian Joyce <psyc...@gmail.com> wrote:

Sensible advice, Michelle. 

Here's another thought, and something I've advocated for a long time: Get rid of the A/B/C ride ratings, which only consider speed and distance. Just because someone can ride 15-17 mph for 2-3 hours (http://greensborovelo.com/cue_sheets.htm) doesn't make them a B, or advanced intermediate, rider. The message here is that bike handling and group riding skills aren't a factor. 

[Carmella Phillips]

I understand, what your saying Ian and I have to say my first group ride was a B ride at Rev Cycles.  I had no clue what I was doing and I went on the assumption I can pedal that fast.    Here is the best part thou, I met Bebe Purcell, Diane Trull , Moni Bates who invited me to join them on their wednesday women's only ride with Ray Gayles.    

Thanks to Ray,  I have learned valuable skills.  I was extremely intimidated riding my bike in traffic and stressed fears to Ray and the group.   Ray taught me how to ride safely on the road and gave me confidence.  I have learned alot over the past two years an I encourage all women to join us next year. 

  So my point with all of this, I hope more people that have alot of experience and knowledge would offer their advice to new people that join the group.  

[James]

I have been following this thread and even posted the article to many
friends of mine as well as our club. I believe that it offers a clear
and concise message on things that many experienced riders have taken
for granted and new riders have either not been taught, or have
allowed their pride to overshadow the ability to ask and learn.

What I find very sad and frustrating is the amount of negative replies
to this thread. One after another, people echoing their discontent and
listing reasons why they no longer participate in group rides rather
than offering solutions and positive input.

The responsibility falls on both parties to clearly define the
dynamics of any group ride. The experienced riders that have
participated in many of the same rides should educate and clearly
state to new riders what they are about to experience. There should be
no posturing, or clique-like activity going on prior to a ride. Open
up, welcome new riders and make them aware of the ride's details and
skill level.

The second half of this equation falls squarely on any rider thinking
of participating in any group ride. BE HONEST WITH YOURSELF, and do
not overstate your abilities. The human response is to take
information as fact until proven otherwise. If a new rider shows up
and says nothing or, lies about their skill level when questioned,
there should be no judgement against the group dynamic when that rider
may be dropped off the back, or create a situation that endangers them
self or others on the ride. If your goal is to get faster and
increasing your skill level in a group dynamic at speed, then by all
means join a ride that will help you to reach those goals but don't
get your knickers in a twist when things don't always go your way.

There are so many different types of rides that you may find yourself
in on any given day, that it is imperative to understand the
responsibilities of both sides. If you are new-ish to a ride,
introduce yourself to others and plainly ask people about the ride's
requirements. Asking one person does not always yield all of the
information necessary to get a feel for the group dynamic. Make your
presence known from the start and clearly ask the group about the
plan.

Part of the problem lies in those few individuals that seek to get
their joy from deriding others, showboating and interrupting the
cohesiveness of any ride. These are the riders that attack in a group
ride designed for an easy pace, and they come from the back out into
another lane because of their frustration, or trying to goad others
into competition. The best way to deal with these personalities is to
NOT enable them. If they go off the front, LET THEM GO. That person
will either continue off on their own, or return to the group. They
may try this a handful of times, but patience and experience from the
other riders will allow the remainder of the group to continue on as
the ride was initially declared. They will eventually give up and,
hopefully, go find a group better suited to their style and
temperment.

Whether you enjoy participating in a hammer-fest, spirited jaunt, or a
leisurely roll through the countryside, there is a ride everyone can
participate in and enjoy the social interaction that cycling as a
group allows us. We are a strong-willed and tight community that
shares a great passion for riding. Let's keep it that way and continue
growing the cycling presence in this area. Ride safe, keep calm and
carry on...

James

On Sep 9, 9:12 am, Carmella Phillips <carmel...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I understand, what your saying Ian and I have to say my first group ride was
> a B ride at Rev Cycles.  I had no clue what I was doing and I went on the
> assumption I can pedal that fast.    Here is the best part thou, I met Bebe
> Purcell, Diane Trull , Moni Bates who invited me to join them on their
> wednesday women's only ride with Ray Gayles.
>
> Thanks to Ray,  I have learned valuable skills.  I was extremely intimidated
> riding my bike in traffic and stressed fears to Ray and the group.   Ray
> taught me how to ride safely on the road and gave me confidence.  I have
> learned alot over the past two years an I encourage all women to join us
> next year.
>
>   So my point with all of this, I hope more people that have alot of
> experience and knowledge would offer their advice to new people that join
> the group.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 8:45 AM, Mary Hughes <mrh0...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > And replace the A/B/C system with what, Ian?
>

[Sarah]

Rather than get rid of the A/B/C system, add another factor for bike
handling/group skills, in addition to the three for speed, time, and
distance.

> > --- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Mary]

Is there such a thing as a "leisurely roll through the countryside?"   The only rides I ever see published are far too fast for newbies.

 

Mary Roach

> > triadcycling+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

> > For more options, visit this group at
> >http://groups.google.com/group/triadcycling?hl=en.

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[Jonathan Neely]

I see plenty of rides published almost daily that advertise 20 - 30 miles @ 14 - 15 mph averages. Those are certainly leasurely rolls.

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[Deon "Diesel" Louw]

I believe group rides need to be categorized so that every rider has a
general idea about the expected average pace required to safely do the
ride with the group. So A/B/C categorization helps in this regard.
However, I believe we should state an added component when announcing
a ride... called "ride intention".

I'll list some examples of what I believe "Ride Intention" could mean:
1. "Group Ride" - expect the group to stay together no matter what
2. "Hammer Fest" - expect breakaways, sprints, attacks, challenges, to
be dropped on an off day
3. "Training Ride" - expect peloton/echelon riding, left and right
pull-offs, fast hills, time-trialling
4. "Intervals" - expect periodic surges and cool-downs
5. "Social Boat" - expect a very social relaxed ride, nodding off
between stop signs, speed of slowest rider
Any others?

So, when announcing a ride you can state "B - Group ride" or "B -
Hammer Fest". The difference between these 2 rides is the intention
that prospective B riders have.

My opinion on safety:
1. the group owns the ride, the ride leader facilitates it.
2. we need to understand that not everyone who rides in the group has
the same set of guidelines to ride by, regardless of how fast they
are, so give them a chance to learn
3. when new rider joins for a group ride, give them guidelines for
safe riding (ride leader may even have a few printed copies for them
to read while they wait)
4. if nobody tells an 'offender' they are doing something wrong, they
will remain clueless... and annoy the heck out of everyone
5. everybody in the group has the responsibility of "rider education"
on a group ride
6. educate "offenders"... if they respond positively, you made a great
friend. If they respond negatively, the ride leader must ban them
7. rider and vehicle safety is more important than 1 offender's hurt
feelings. Chase them away if needed.

Deon

[Steve Gibson]

I AGREE!!

FABULOUS summary and GREAT suggestions!!

Some of us that are still relatively new to the whole group riding dynamic NEED coaching. If you are qualified, delivering same in a positive, courteous manner is welcomed. People deserve the opportunity to improve and would rather do so. VS. being talked about by everyone behind their back at stops and/or on the car ride home. :-)

By the same token, let the A riders (or A wannabees) in the B group go join the A riders. Is it not ok to invite them to do so?

Be a PAL-speak up! Just remember, address the specific behavior by providing positive alternatives, not the individuals character or perceived intent.

Steve

Deon

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[Lenny Dolin]

I guess that depends on whether you are 25 or 55 years of age or older and many other factors.

 

There's been a lot of great comments on this topic.  The only thing I would add that its very annoying to show up for a ride advertised to average one speed - say 15 - 16 mph only to find out that the true pace of the ride is 18 mph or more.   Just post what the pace is going to be so one can go into a ride with no surprises.

[Dayle Fitzgibbons]

Hi Mary and other newbies...I am a C rider and plan some longer C level rides, but would be happy to work on a "No drop ride" at a slower pace for new folks, if the interest is out there. Please let me know via email if you would like to get some road experience so that you will eventually feel comfortable in jumping on to other rides.

Thx,
Dayle
340-3141

[Ian Joyce]

On Sep 9, 2011, at 8:45 AM, Mary Hughes wrote:

And replace the A/B/C system with what, Ian? 

More information about the ride and expectations. Deon offered an excellent example.

A/B/C is shorthand that leaves too much to everyones' interpretation. Worse, and to Wilborn's point, it places all the emphasis on speed, and none on group riding skills.