Gas Problem?
Hijem
Actually, a little more than half the price is pure tax.
Hey, you, get off of my cloud.
Hey, McLeod, get off of my ewe.
HIJEM,
* If you're really forgetful and you get amnesia, do you start to remember
things?
On Wed, 8 Mar 2000, J/P/J wrote:
>
> I'm only passing on the message for someone. Don't slay the messenger
> because you don't like the message; don't shoot the piano player because
> you don't like the song; don't eat yellow snow because ...(I donno, just
> don't)
by the way, I'll eat yellow snow whenever I get the chance, and I'll LOVE it
> On Wed, 8 Mar 2000 sga...@ivory.trentu.ca wrote:
>
> > I was always under the assumption that the prices were rising because of the global price of crude oil. I mean, every time the price of gas has increased, it has been because the cost of acquiring oil has gone up as well. I'm just wondering if the gas companies are not in some global scheme together - of course, its easy to accuse them of such a crime...after all, people usually avoid the truth by embracing a lie that makes them feel good.
> > Then again, this is the wrong message board for this sort of discussion.
> by the way, I'll post here whenever I get the chance, and I'll LOVE it.
>
> > By the way, I'll fill up at Esso whenever I get the chance, and I'll LOVE it.
>
> Ok, but you must do 100 pushups afterwards.
> It was only a suggestion, not an order. I might or might not fill up at
> esso too, but I don't think I'll love it as much (gas fumes and all).
>
>
>
> Peggyanne McLeod <jmc...@trentu.ca>
> _______________________________________________________________
> Very funny, Scotty... Now beam down my clothes!
> -Capt. J.T. Kirk
>
> Everyone has to believe in something...
> I believe I'll have another drink.
>
> Dr. Penfield cured my seizures... but now I act like a chicken!
> -The burnt toast lady
> _______________________________________________________________
>
>
>
Hijem
Great, thanks for the information. I didn't know about this newspaper.
HIJEM,
* If you're really forgetful and you get amnesia, do you start to remember
things?
On Thu, 9 Mar 2000, Ethan Clarke wrote:
> True... but that tax is not the cause for the rise in gas prices... that level has not changed in quite a while. The cost coming out of the middle east is the primary cause for the rise in the price at the pumps. Do not let the anti-tax lobby convince you that the solution is to lower taxes on gas. Those taxes pay for the roads, cops, etc. We need them.
>
> You might be interested to read my opinion peice in this week's arthur. I'm not sure when they update the website but you can check out http://www.trentu.ca/arthur My article should be there in a few days at least. Or you coudl pick up a copy of Arthur.
>
> Yes, I do catch the irony of having an article talking about saving the environment in a newspaper. :)
Nick Butler
Not to cut fuel taxes now will eventually have a devastating effect. I'm
not so concerned about gasoline prices, much more with diesel oil prices.
Why? If the soaring price of diesel oil continues, than owner/operators of
the transport trucks that deliver most goods on this continent will have no
choice but to raise freight rates. That means that consumer goods become
more expensive, real income falls, our economy goes to hell in a handbasket,
etc. I'm afraid neither you nor any "pro-tax" (a strange position) advocate
will ever convince me otherwise. I'd go as far, under the circumstances, to
accept delays in personal income tax cuts while oil prices remain high.
That's more because apart from recent changes to scholarship taxation, I
won't benefit from them for a few years yet. As I understand it, OPEC will
convene at the end of the month to evaluate the situation, I read somewhere,
I think it was the Economist, that Saudi Arabia and a few other producers
would be willing to accept $25/barrel, which means that fuel prices will be
higher, but not as high as they presently are.
-----------------------------------------
Nick Butler (nbutler(at)Trentu.something
Second Quarter B.A.S.
Trent University
"Right is Right, Left is Wrong"
-----------------------------------------
"Ethan Clarke" <ecl...@trentu.ca> wrote in message
news:38C6EA1F...@trentu.ca...
Ethan Clarke
Paul-André Beaulieu
advocate
> will ever convince me otherwise. I'd go as far, under the circumstances,
to
Well, of cooooourse pro-tax is a strange position... Doesn't everybody want
less taxes and more services?
<sarcasm included>
-P-A
Nick Butler
"Paul-André Beaulieu" <an...@blaze.trentu.ca> wrote in message
news:Fr4ptG.8s...@news.trentu.ca...
Ideally yes, but I'd rather put an end to turning Shawinigan into a
metropolis at my expense and save my tax dollars at the same time.
Paul-André Beaulieu
> metropolis at my expense and save my tax dollars at the same time.
It's all in whether or not you think your tax dollar is being used for
something worthwhile to society...
--
-Paul-André Beaulieu
Honours Computer Science
Trent University
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GCS/SS d- s:+ a-- C++(+++) UU(L) P>++ L+>++ E? W+(++) N+ o? K?
w+ O? M?>+ V PS PE-- Y PGP- t++@ 5>++ X+ R(+) !tv b++ DI+(++)
D++ G e>++ h r y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Get your own Geek Code at http://www.geekcode.com !
Nick Butler
government programs anyhow, I tend to loathe Canada Customs and Revenue this
time of year. And Trent's ex-finest alum Jane Stewart and her little
screwjob makes it worse.
(Yes, I know that most of the HRDC thing is actually Pettigrew's fault but
oh well.)
"Paul-André Beaulieu" <an...@blaze.trentu.ca> wrote in message
news:Fr4yBz.39...@news.trentu.ca...
Justin Boudreau
the roads my magic nor do pot-hole get filled by the asphalt faery. you
can't have your cake and eat it too. You want your road services then you
have to pay taxes. You can't get away without it. So I will pay my gas taxes
and I will do it without protest. Because I like my servies. I do the same
for GST PST and income tax. I like my healthcare, my education and I like my
pension plan. So here is to taxes. it is fine to bitch about taxes but the
fact is that you can't have your cake and eat it to.
RedHead
BRAVO!! I agree..... but can we still complain about how the taxes are
being spent.....like where is money to educatio nand healthcare? Why are
there so many potholes? And on the issue of misspent money... remember
all those new soap thingies I was complaining about, and the new
papertowel holders? Well, now we have new toilet paper things in*every*
bathroom. Help me with that one. grrr.
K
you know that guy... ummm... andre
Hijem wrote:
>
> Actually, a little more than half the price is pure tax.
but that tax portion has not gone up - so the tax issue is a smoke
screen to get us to take our eyes off the ball - global conspiracy to
increase inflation - just watch the prices of everyday goods rise as the
cost of transport (i.e. gas) gets passed on to the consumer
andre
Hadean Dragon
with that one. grrr.
Uhm, simple, just as several people explained before, new contracts +
cheaper products = savings for the school. (actually, either one of those
could equal savings, really)
you know that guy... ummm... andre
Nick Butler wrote:
> (Yes, I know that most of the HRDC thing is actually Pettigrew's fault but
> oh well.)
didnt you get your right wing hand book - you're not supposed to admit
that point - but i am glad someone finally did - at least it shows you
have a deeper understanding of that issue and arent blindly following
party rhetoric
andre
Justin Boudreau
premis of democracy. You don't like how one bunch of overpaid corperate pigs
are spending your money you can elect annother bunch of pigs to miss-manage
your cash..
Isn't democracy grand?
RedHead <kamu...@trentu.ca> wrote in message
news:Pine.PMDF.3.96.100030...@trentu.ca...
>
> BRAVO!! I agree..... but can we still complain about how the taxes are
> being spent.....like where is money to educatio nand healthcare? Why are
> there so many potholes? And on the issue of misspent money... remember
> all those new soap thingies I was complaining about, and the new
> papertowel holders? Well, now we have new toilet paper things in*every*
> bathroom. Help me with that one. grrr.
>
you know that guy... ummm... andre
Nick Butler wrote something that has convinced me he is a Naresh clone:
<snip idiotic comments about how lower taxation is our only weapon
against inflation>
taxes have been the only constant "variable" since the beginning of the
rise of crude oil and gas and diesel -
what else has been in play - soaring markets, an economy that doesn't
seem to be playing by the old rules, rising interest rates, OPEC finally
sticking to reduced quotas, a oligopoly fixing prices in canada....
yes - higher prices at the pumps will lead to inflation as cost get
passed on to the consumer - but don't be so narrow minded to think that
our only weapon is lowering taxes - lower gas taxes would only represent
an artificial deflation of prices - one that could easily be swallowed
up if other factors are not kept in check -
andre
jda...@ivory.trentu.ca
Paul-André Beaulieu
Anyone else ever wonder if some Ptbo Civil Engineers were actually paid in
booze? Take the Parkhill Road hill near George, for example...
jda...@ivory.trentu.ca
your way to Lansdown Place - always wondered how they
got that wave into the pavement.
SARAH
>> Hmm, I think Peterborough could use one of those asphalt faries...
>
>Anyone else ever wonder if some Ptbo Civil Engineers were actually paid in
>booze? Take the Parkhill Road hill near George, for example...
>
Nick Butler
> Nick Butler wrote something that has convinced me he is a Naresh clone:
> <snip idiotic comments about how lower taxation is our only weapon
> against inflation>
> taxes have been the only constant "variable" since the beginning of the
> rise of crude oil and gas and diesel -
Let me clarify something, I do not believe that it was I who even made that
remark. In fact I am positive that I did not make the remark, I can't find
it in my archives of postings, neither can I recall saying or thinking such
a thing. Secondly, taxes are the only variable that the government can
control, and in this case then, it's all that can be controlled in order to
prevent the danger of inflation with specific regard to oil prices. There
are many other anti-inflationary tools available, but as it is one specific
(and crucial) commodity rising in price, they will not be very effective.
> what else has been in play - soaring markets, an economy that doesn't
> seem to be playing by the old rules, rising interest rates, OPEC finally
> sticking to reduced quotas, a oligopoly fixing prices in canada....
Rising interest rates are one of the above-mentioned anti-inflationary
tools, actually.
> yes - higher prices at the pumps will lead to inflation as cost get
> passed on to the consumer - but don't be so narrow minded to think that
> our only weapon is lowering taxes - lower gas taxes would only represent
> an artificial deflation of prices - one that could easily be swallowed
> up if other factors are not kept in check -
>
> andre
I don't understand the dichotomy you are implying with regard to "natural"
and "artificial" inflation in this context. Lowering consumer prices for a
commodity as vital to overall economic well-being as oil is is essential if
maintenance of the general price level and standards of living is our goal.
As for Naresh, I believe I have said before that I've only met him three
times in my life, and further, for a host of reasons, I don't particularily
like him or his ideas.
you know that guy... ummm... andre
Nick Butler wrote:
>
> >
> > Nick Butler wrote something that has convinced me he is a Naresh clone:
> > <snip idiotic comments about how lower taxation is our only weapon
> > against inflation>
>
> > taxes have been the only constant "variable" since the beginning of the
> > rise of crude oil and gas and diesel -
>
> Let me clarify something, I do not believe that it was I who even made that
> remark. In fact I am positive that I did not make the remark, I can't find
> it in my archives of postings, neither can I recall saying or thinking such
> a thing.
Spoken like a true politician, but i had to look no further than the
post that i responded to:
On Wed, 8 Mar 2000 23:11:35 GMT Nick Butler wrote:
"...Not to cut fuel taxes now will eventually have a devastating
effect. I'm
not so concerned about gasoline prices, much more with diesel oil
prices.
Why? If the soaring price of diesel oil continues..." etc etc
This was essentially your only argument - since you offered no other
alternatives it is clear you feel it is the only weapon to fight
inflation
> Secondly, taxes are the only variable that the government can
> control, and in this case then, it's all that can be controlled in order to
> prevent the danger of inflation with specific regard to oil prices. There
> are many other anti-inflationary tools available, but as it is one specific
> (and crucial) commodity rising in price, they will not be very effective.
And in your most recent post - "...it's [gas tax] all that can be
controlled in order to prevent the danger of inflation with specific
regard to oil prices..." - if you didn't say it implicitly before, you
most certainly have said it explicitly now!
> > what else has been in play - soaring markets, an economy that doesn't
> > seem to be playing by the old rules, rising interest rates, OPEC finally
> > sticking to reduced quotas, a oligopoly fixing prices in canada....
>
> Rising interest rates are one of the above-mentioned anti-inflationary
> tools, actually.
Duh! - yup rising interest rates are an anti-inflationary tool (a
questionable one, but a tool nonetheless) - i just mentioned it to point
out that there are several factors at play in the open market - while
you think that cutting gas taxes is the only solution, i have pointed
out that it cannot be that simple when so many other factors are in play
-
> > yes - higher prices at the pumps will lead to inflation as cost get
> > passed on to the consumer - but don't be so narrow minded to think that
> > our only weapon is lowering taxes - lower gas taxes would only represent
> > an artificial deflation of prices - one that could easily be swallowed
> > up if other factors are not kept in check -
>
> I don't understand the dichotomy you are implying with regard to "natural"
> and "artificial" inflation in this context.
natural deflation occurs if economic factors (eg supply and demand)
force the price down. The price is lower because of the economic
factors at play - however, simply lowering a tax represents an
artificial deflation of the price - the price of the commodity (in this
case) is still high due to real economic factors - reducing the tax
applied at the end of the supply chain will not make it cost less for
refineries to turn crude oil into gas -
In the long run such a artificial deflation in price can be eradicated
by profit taking at any stage in the supply chain - eg tax reduction
results in a drop in gas prices at the pump by say $0.04 a litre - a
refinery can then capitalize on the price reduction by increasing the
price of gas $0.01 a litre just for the hell of it - the price then
raises $0.01 - but nobody would really notice because we have seen
bigger jumps in the past - except of course the refinery which is now
making an extra penny on every litre sold - and there is nothing
stopping them from raising their price gradually again over a period of
time lets say $0.0001 a litre per month - in the long run any price
reduction as a result in lowered taxation can be chipped away by anyone
and at the end you are left with gas at the same price and a lower tax
base... and there would be no way to prevent such profit taking because
it is very easy for anyone in the supply to claim their price increases
were a result of market factors (even if they werent a result of market
factors)...
another example - if you have a company that sells widgets and one day a
supplier reduces the cost of the raw materials you use to make the
widgets - do you go ahead and pass all your savings on directly to your
customers? not likely - you may pass on some to be competitive, but not
all- you see an opportunity to increase your own profits, so you take
it... (this is not entirely the same thing because real market factors
are in play here - and there is no expectation of lowered prices as
there is in the case of lowered taxation - i.e. your customer is not
expecting the price to go down - its just an illustration of how easily
potential savings to the consumer can be wiped out)
I am not personally opposed to a freeze on gas tax, nor would i be
opposed to a interim reduction for a set period of time to help grease
the wheels of the economy, but i am dead against a non conditional
reduction in taxes to solve the gas price problem, because the solution
is only temporary and the loss in tax base can not be recovered without
a raise in taxes elsewhere -
andre
jeff...@ivory.trentu.ca
In article <Fr6oHs.M7...@news.trentu.ca>, jda...@ivory.trentu.ca writes:
>I especially like the "ripple" effect Lansdowne has on
>your way to Lansdown Place - always wondered how they
>got that wave into the pavement.
>
>In article <Fr6IvF.7p...@news.trentu.ca>, "Paul-André Beaulieu" <an...@blaze.trentu.ca> writes:
>>> Hmm, I think Peterborough could use one of those asphalt faries...
>>
>>Anyone else ever wonder if some Ptbo Civil Engineers were actually paid in
>>booze? Take the Parkhill Road hill near George, for example...
>>
>>