something new for us

[hopeworks]

Linda and I are very excited. On Monday we are starting a support
group at the Knoxville Area Rescue Mission. They have started a
recovery based program there called Launch Point and they have asked
us to help build the mental health support part of the program. If
all goes well it may grow into a much larger opportunity. What I have
seen of the Launch Point program up unitl know has been very
impressive. It is literally remaking the culture there.

[Moss Bliss]

Would you like some help, Larry? I am living in Knoxville now... and certainly have proven my value to the homeless population, at least in Asheville...

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ज़ैवलानन्ड
Gerald L. "Moss" Bliss, D.D.
Certified Peer Support Specialist
"I got skills, I got mad skills..."
சிவாய நமஹ

[David Steingart]

Hi Moss
I don't argue your points but if I am right you stated that 30 percent of the time drugs work for people. That's a huge number! I suspect its actually higher but let's go with 30 percent. Why say they don't "work" if one third of the people are getting relief from them? I think the problem is that people have decided they are the "enemy" when study after study shows that in combination with talk therapy they are the best line of defense. They clearly are effective in combination with talk therapy. Generalization is a dangerous thing, I know many psychiatrists who sensitively prescribe medication.. Have you ever seen someone with major depression who is suicidal try an anti-depressant that creates a turning point in their recovery? I have many many times.  Recovery encompasses EVERY kind of treatment modality.

David

David Steingart- LSW
"People who say it can not be done should not interrupt those who are doing it."
- George Bernard Shaw

[Moss Bliss]

The response to that is, what if those same 30% respond to placebo, as the early studies suggest (for antidepressants)? At any rate, except for extreme cases, I believe drugs should not be the FIRST option.

[David Steingart]

I think anything can be compared to placebo if you find the right study.  Drugs don't have to be the first option, but first option doesn't necessarily mean only option. Many people in crisis do well with drugs first because they simply don't have the luxury of time to try other things. It's easy to say from the sidelines that drugs don't work but how about the millions of people who praise them as being important in recovery? They help a person get "from here to there" so to speak.

David

[Larry Drain]

I think the real question is how you see medication. If you see it as
a tool then all the conditions that apply to any tool must apply to
it. Are you using it at a time, to a degree, and under circumstances
that allow it to be beneficial. As a tool it helps some people.
Absolutely no question. It also hurts some people. Absolutely no
question. And for some it is simply irrelevant. Absolutely no
question. Like any tool it is a hypothesis. I think this might help
based on these factors. If the hypothesis sucks the use of
medications sucks. There are a million anecdotes that prove the truth
of every position on medication. I think you look at possible gains
and possible risks and the likelihood of either being real. Caution
is the best watch word. There is ample evidence that risks are
extremely real. Benefits seem real but very iffy to me. It is also
very important to know how the person taking the medication makes
sense of it. There is a big difference between someone taking it as a
tool to be checked out and someone coerced or manipulated to take it
because someone else thinks medication reflects the reality of who he
it and what his life is about. Medication as a claim of truth is
wrong and poisonous. Medication without the informed choice to say no
is wrong. I think too as it is frequently used it results in us
blamiing the victim of trauma and a very hard life for being hard to
be around and put up with. With medication as a tool the recovery
model is possible. With medication as truth (medical or otherwise) it
is not. Just my thoughts.

[Larry Drain]

I just know too many people who find the mental health system as
problematic, worrisome and dangerous as any mental health issues they
deal with. That is why so many people who "need" treatment do not
make use of it in my opinion.

[Moss Bliss]

My point, Larry. They are a tool. We don't know what the tools' uses are, because all we are told is from the marketing departments of the drug companies, and the doctors believe them as if it were Gospel. We need to do more study on what they actually do, who they actually treat -- but the first treatment should be trying to find personal traumas and issues and deal with them. Doctors (most APA psychiatrists) hold dogmatically to the idea (unproven since before 1985) that we are not affected by trauma and that all mental illness is a chemical imbalance (read: "brain disease"). We are not allowed to have our emotions without having them diagnosed.

OK, I think I've made my point. Most other doctors (heart, kidneys, etc.) hold to proven treatments for objectively provable diseases. We don't get that from psychiatrists, as a general rule, and there are yet to be ANY objective diagnostic tools.

Hugs,

Moss

[Susan Anderson]

Dear Larry and Linda,

My name is Susan Anderson. I met you both at the Recovery Education Center at Dowell Springs. Through some tragedies happening since December 2012, I now live at KARM. If you would like information on resident life at KARM, I would be more than happy to help you with that. Since leaving the Recovery Education Center, I have completed my 75 hours needed for Peer Support Specialist. If you would like my help

On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 2:50 AM, hopeworks <hopeworks...@gmail.com> wrote: