T&T: Source for drag pointer fuel vacuum gauge

[Sean Welsh]

I'd like to replace the stock Racor gauge on my dual-1000 setup with the
type that has a drag pointer which remains at the highest vacuum
reading. I need a gauge that reads 0-30" Hg, has 1/4" NPT bottom
connection, is about 2.5" diameter, and preferably liquid-filled. Of
course it must have a diesel-safe mechanism (brass or stainless).

By my reckoning, such a gauge should cost at most $25, plus shipping.
So far, though, the least expensive one I have found online is from
Designated Engineer in Florida and runs double that amount.
McMaster-Carr has plenty of gauges that meet most of my criteria for
around $23, but do not offer a drag needle. Wika gauges offers this
option even in their lowest-cost line (around $10-$15), but no one seems
to carry this model with the drag pointer.

Can anyone point me at a commercial source for such a gauge? I think
Parker used to offer one, but if it says "Racor" on it and is sold by a
marine retailer, it will be marked up to at least a c-note.

-Sean
m/y Vector
lying Deltaville, VA
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com


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[Rich Gano]

I am not sure why a drag needle is necessary on a fuel vacuum gauge. Unless
there is a vacuum leak, which might well shut the engine down anyway, the
needle should remain right where it was during engine operation. At least
that is what the needles on my five fuel filter gauges do, even a month
after the engines are shut down. Three of these are remote reading gauges,
meaning I do not need to go into the engine room to see the two
Racor-mounted gauges for the mains (I didn't bother mounting one on the
generator Racor).

Given that a relatively clean system is going to clog the filters over a
fairly long period of time, looking at either a remote gauge or peeking into
the engine room once in awhile when the engines are running will reveal the
steady climb of the needle and its highest reading.

I shut off the fuel to my two Ford Lehman 120s many years ago to find out at
what vacuum the engines would initially indicate fuel starvation by my ear -
it was 15 inches Hg. Good test to the integrity of the fuel supply system
too.

Rich Gano
Calypso (GB42 Hull # 295)
Panama City area, FL

[Twin...@aol.com]

I have been repairing diesel powered equipment for 35 years, many,
including Caterpillar, engines have vacuum gauges in the fuel system. I have never
seen one that holds vacuum. The only accurate way to read a vacuum gauge
is with the engine under full load. That is why the poster wants a drag
needle.

I have my wife DRAG the hatch open to read the NEEDLE, while underway.

Roger & Dorothy
Slow Churn
RF35 Rosborough


In a message dated 8/15/2013 10:24:59 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

[Chuck Hanson]

Good idea. I hadn't thought to do that. Is there any problem restarting the engine after it dies from fuel starvation?

Chuck Hanson

On Aug 15, 2013, at 10:24 AM, "Rich Gano" <rich...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I am not sure why a drag needle is necessary on a fuel

[Rich Gano]

I would not suggest killing the engine. Just flip open the fuel supply
valve when I starts to stumble, and it should pick right up.

Rich Gano

[Kevin Thompson]

Try Tony at seaboard marine. That's where I got mine, and I love knowing when my filters need to be changed.............. http://www.sbmar.com/
Kevin
Woods Hole, MA
1971 Dyer 40 Miss Shannon

[lali...@alum.rpi.edu]

Kevin,

I must not be too bright as on that site, I cannot find the drag pointer.

Might you have a specific link?

Lee

[George Hechtman]

"Try Tony at seaboard marine. That's where I got mine, and I love knowing when my filters need to be changed.............. http://www.sbmar.com/"

They just resell the Designated Engineer gauges, the OP is trying to find something cheaper.
It's a PITA on a lot of boats to do ER checks, admittedly very easy on mine which was a major attraction when buying the boat, but it really is a good idea to take a good look around in there under various load conditions. The issue I have with the drag pointer gauge is it is another excuse not to do ER checks.

George
Hatteras 56MY

[Peter Denton]

Help
What is a drag line pointer? Why use it? I assume an ER is not where I go
if George Zimmerman shoots me.

Peter Denton

[scub...@charter.net]

Peter,

We do use a lot of TLA's (Three Letter Acronyms... Or Two for that matter)
on the list.

ER = Engine Room

A drag pointer is part of a fuel pressure gauge which shows you the highest
vacuum which has occurred in your fuel system. Your engine will specify the
maximum allowable fuel vacuum for it operate. If the vacuum gets too high
the engine will be starved for fuel and will stutter, surge or even stall.
High vacuum is usually and indicator you need to change your fuel filters.

The drag pointer on a gauge always shows the highest vacuum reached since it
was last reset.

Hope this helps
-Matt

Help
What is a drag line pointer? Why use it? I assume an ER is not where I go if
George Zimmerman shoots me.

Peter Denton

[Sean Welsh]

I found them here:
http://www.sbmar.com/smx-fueltration-available-options.php

However, these are the same "Designated Engineer" gauges I already
mentioned, except he's marking them up even further. $60 is a lot of
money for what ought to be a $20 gauge.

I am guessing DE has them made by Ashcroft, Wika, Weiss, or similar
under his own label. I was hoping to find a generic one for a few bucks
less, but it appears no one stocks this type of gauge.

-Sean

[Sean Welsh]

On 8/17/2013 8:48 AM, George Hechtman wrote:
> ... The issue I have with the drag pointer gauge is it is another excuse not to do ER checks.
>
FWIW, we, too, have a very easy-to-access engine room and one of us goes
down there every hour under way, infrared pyrometer in hand, to take
readings and check on things. That does not obviate the value of a drag
needle.

Even if you go down to the ER every five minutes, there is no guarantee
that you will see the gauge under maximum vacuum conditions. Our
engine, which is overpowered for the boat by nearly a factor of two,
almost never runs at full throttle, and we only even run it up to 80%
once a day or so for health reasons. But when the chips are down and we
are trying to back off from a grounding, for example, I'll use
everything I've got if that's what it takes. And under this
circumstance, both of us are required on deck -- this is not the time to
be sending the deckhand down to the ER to read gauges. Yet this is
precisely the time that max vacuum will be achieved, and also precisely
the time fuel starvation could be depriving us of those last few dozen
HP we need.

I stand by my desire for a drag-needle gauge on the main engine. BTW, at
present, we have no gauge whatsoever on the Racor 900 supplying the
generator. If I were in the market for another gauge, I would want a
drag pointer for that one, too, but to save a few bucks, my plan is to
repurpose the gauge currently on the main engine 1000s for the
generator. I fully expect that either one of us will be able to go down
to the ER to look at that one whenever the genset is approaching maximum
load, since we will seldom be under way under such conditions. The
existing gauge is a nice Racor-branded model that reads 0-30" Hg and
0-15 psi, with a glycerin-filled stainless housing. I'm sure Racor
charges a c-note for those, but I could buy an identical gauge today for
$23.

-Sean

[Rich Gano]

I have owned this boat for 26 years, and that's how it operates. I am no
kind on diesel mechanic, but I see now reason a well maintained system
should not operate as mine does. Maybe I am just lucky.

I let my wife look into the engine room while lying in me tummy in the main
cabin last year while I explained where the major pieces of gear were
located. That's the only time she has EVER looked in there.

Different strokes....

Rich Gano

-----Original Message-----
From: Twin...@aol.com [mailto:Twin...@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 11:59 AM
To: rich...@gmail.com; slwelsh+...@gmail.com
Cc: traw...@lists.trawlering.com
Subject: Re: T&T: Source for drag pointer fuel vacuum gauge

[Bayside Marine Surveying, Inc.]

Hey Lee.

Check out this link for the gauges you are searching for.

http://www.designatedengineer.com/DragPointerLookDown.html

Good Luck,

Alan

Alan C. Gaidelis, AMS #784
Accredited Marine Surveyor
Bayside Marine Surveying, Inc.
Middle River, Maryland
www.baysidemarinesurveying.com
410-335-3955
Member: Society of Accredited Marine Surveyors
American Boat and Yacht Council
Boat US
Marine Trades Association of Baltimore County

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[Russell Davignon]

Guys, I follow the whole drag pointer thing except for one thing- Why bother. 

I have a Capt'n Will Fuel Polishing System (See Archives) and have Weiss vacuum gauges as per the Capt'n install.  My understanding is that the  gauge should show NO Vacuum at all i.e. Zero at speed.  
If the vacuum rises to even 5 mm it suggests the fuel filter elements are on the way out and need to be changed. This seems to be an entirely different usage/understanding of how and why  the gauges are there.
 I can understand recording Max vacuum at RPM XXX but who cares ANY vacuum ( for practical purposes )is No Good.  
Some one with expertise please educate me. I depend on these things and so far they have never been wrong, of course, partly because I am changing elements at the least hint of a vacuum). 
PS Using Bounty Paper towels  in the GULF GF-1 makes it cheaper than changing a Racor, so as I said I change them at a blink)   

Russ Running a Yanmar 110 HTE @ 2,700 RPM cruise
 
"Since you cannot do good to all, you are to pay special attention to those who, by the accidents of time, or place, or circumstances, are brought into closer connection with you." St Augustine

[twin...@aol.com]

If you have NO vacuum, then No fuel will move up and out of the tank. Thats how it works. Then the fuel needs to be pulled thru the primary filter. If there is no resistance, then you are not filtering it. Your system may be set up with an extra supply pump, pushing the fuel, but thats not the standard setup.

[Rich Gano]

Depends on where the vacuum is read. My Racors, and the point where vacuum
is read, are at the mid-level of my fuel tanks. Vacuum is zero with clean
filter elements until the fuel level gets below the level of the vacuum
taps. With fuel at the bottom of the tanks, the vacuum reads about 3-4
inches Hg.

Rich Gano

-----Original Message-----
From: Trawlers-and-Trawlering
[mailto:trawlers...@lists.trawlering.com]On Behalf Of
twin...@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2013 6:52 AM
To: svasc...@yahoo.com; traw...@lists.trawlering.com
Subject: Re: T&T: Source for drag pointer fuel vacuum gauge


"If you have NO vacuum, then No fuel will move up and out of the tank. Thats
how it works. Then the fuel needs to be pulled thru the primary filter. If

there is no resistance, then you are not filtering it. ......."

[rt]

Same as Rich.

The tops of my Racor filters are a couple of inches above the bottom of my fuel tank and the normal reading is zero on the vacuum gauge even when cruising. Reading the gauge is part of my normal engine room check process when underway. If I note any vacuum, I start checking more frequently and switch filters at 5.

On the other hand, the filter used for my fuel polishing system is well above my tanks. That gauge reads a minimum of 2.5-3.0 when polishing.

Randy
Soul Tender

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 18, 2013, at 12:03 PM, "Rich Gano" <rich...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Depends on where the vacuum is read. My Racors, and the point where vacuum
> is read, are at the mid-level of my fuel tanks. Vacuum is zero with clean
> filter elements until the fuel level gets below the level of the vacuum
> taps. With fuel at the bottom of the tanks, the vacuum reads about 3-4
> inches Hg.
>
> Rich Gano