T&T: GFCI vs ELCI

[Dave Legrow]

Please at use the correct terminology.  Many on the list are unfamiliar with and likely to confuse the two.


GFCIs may be installed at either the outlet (which we are all familiar with), in the electrical
panel, or on the cord (check your wife's hair dryer if it is relatively new).
These have a trip rating of about 5ma, and are rated up to 30 a.  These are designed to protect the end user.


ELCIs for marine use usually installed at the electrical panel, although there portable inline
ones available. You need to make sure of which one you order, as industrial ELCIs come in 10, 15, 20,
30 and 100 ma trip ratings. Only the 30 ma ones are specified by ABYC. 

Carling Tech ELCIs (sold by Blue Sea and others) are fully compliant with E-11 and S-31 - but be sure to
purchase the correct ones as they also make ELCIs for industrial use.  There are other manufacturers getting on board as

well - mostly adapting their existing industrial products to create new products meeting the ABYC standard.

So just don't order a vanilla ELCI.

The primary purpose of the ABYC ELCI  rule is the danger of swimmer electrocution. This danger is relatively
minimal in salt water.  It is in fresh or mildly brackish water that there is
substantialdanger to swimmers.


Cheers,

Dave
_______________________________________________
http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers_lists.trawlering.com

To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options (get password, change email address, etc) go to: http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers_lists.trawlering.com
Trawlers & Trawlering and T&T are trademarks of Water World
Productions. Unauthorized use is prohibited.

[Jim Healy]

Dave,

Not sure if you're talking about the discussion in which I've been involved over the past couple of days. The one in which I have been involved ***is not*** an ELCI discussion. It's GFCI - really Ground Fault Protection, GFP, but GFCI is the same technology discussion - for the shore power infrastructure in marinas and boatyards. ELCI lives on boats, is spec'ed by ABYC, not NEC, and protects the boat. The term "GFCI" ordinarily applies to the sensitive little beggars that live in residential kitchens, bathrooms, garages and basements (wet locations), and in light commercial workspaces and wet locations. GFP lives in the shoreside distribution infrastructure, and protects the dock pedestals and utility distribution. GFP has one flavor that is similar to ELCI in that it is rated at 30ma/100ms. Depending on the overload protection requirement, the Carling and North Shore Safety breakers used in ELCI packages could also be used in shoreside GFP applications. With 120V/240V, 30A/50A dock circuits, they would be most suited to private, residential docks. For larger OP needs, commercial breakers would be necessary. In the 200A - 1000A range, the breakers are typically remote controlled. The OP device accepts flavors of GFP sensors, which can be rated at 30ma, 100ma and higher (in industrial applications). Another possible marina/boatyard GFP flavor is 100ma/100ms. The choice has to do with the number of slips being protected. I don't think there's anything in the NEC marina/boatyard code that allows more than 100ma fault protection.

Protecting slips to the 2011 NEC ground fault standard is a series of choices for the marina/boatyard operator. With home runs, a marina could protect each separate boat slip individually. That isolates all boats from one another, no faulting boat would affect any other, and it would be easy to identify a boat with a fault condition. But, it's expensive in infrastructure costs. A midrange cost design is to protect a cluster of slips, say 4, with one GFP. That way, if one boat faults and trips the GFP, the maximum outage exposure is to take down 4 boats. A little harder to identify the faulting boat, but 1 out of 4 is the culprit. The last way is whole dock protection. That's the least expensive to install, but highly complex to manage. Any boat that faults brings down the whole dock. It's least expensive for the marina operator to install, but most difficult to identify a problem boat, and very disruptive for boat owners. It would not be a good idea in a transient marina, where one transient could affect an entire dock. It might be OK for a condo/townhouse, where all boats are open cockpit and the worst impact is a dead start battery.

Hope this is useful.

Jim

Peg and Jim Healy aboard Sanctuary
Currently at Rock Creek, Pasadena, MD
http://gilwellbear.wordpress.com
Monk 36 Hull #132
MMSI #367042570
AGLCA #3767
MTOA #3436

[Dave Legrow]

ELCIs have been used in industrial applications, which is why they are available in different trip ratings as well as amperage/voltage/phase ratings.  ABYC's involvement with getting them installed on boats was due to freshwater drownings, not to protect the boat.  Likewise with the ELCI in the new NEC for dock power  ...and yes, ELCI and GFCI are both Ground Fault Protection devices (as are a few others). 

GFCIs  by definition (UL 943 and NEC 2011) only trip at approx 6 ma.

GFCIs are a type of GFP, have a trip rating of about 6 ma, are almost  always on a 120 v 15/20 amp circuit (except for boat hoists), and have no ground/bond connection beyond the GFCI
ELCIs are a type of GFP, have a trip rating of 10 to 100 ma, come in various circuit configurations, and DO have a ground/bond beyond the device
Not all ELCI's have ABYC approval

The only time a GFCI is required on docks are for 120 v.  15/20 amp outlets and 240 v. dock hoist circuits.  NEC 555.19(B)1
Outlets beyond the GFCI (whether in a panel or in the wall/pedestal) are not to be bonded and are to be marked "No Equipment Ground"
Shore power receptacles 30/50 amp connectors do not require GFCI installation. 
Dock power feeds require a GFP/ELCI with a 100 ma maximum rating on new installations IF the NEC 2011 has been adopted by the local authority.  NEC 555.3
Keep in mind that the the ABYC recommendation and the NEC requirement apply to new or upgraded installations only. 

[Jim Healy]

Hi Dave,

I think the code designers would say, "GFCIs protect people, ELCIs protect equipment." In the case of ELCIs on boats, they do both; one directly, the second indirectly. Sounds like we understand each other.

As always, persons reading this must do their own due diligence with their own local code "authority having jurisdiction."

Thanks,

Jim

On Aug 21, 2013, at 9:45 AM, Dave Legrow <dle...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>
> ELCIs have been used in industrial applications, which is why they are available in different trip ratings as well as amperage/voltage/phase ratings. ABYC's involvement with getting them installed on boats was due to freshwater drownings, not to protect the boat. Likewise with the ELCI in the new NEC for dock power ...and yes, ELCI and GFCI are both Ground Fault Protection devices (as are a few others).
>
> GFCIs by definition (UL 943 and NEC 2011) only trip at approx 6 ma.
>
> GFCIs are a type of GFP, have a trip rating of about 6 ma, are almost always on a 120 v 15/20 amp circuit (except for boat hoists), and have no ground/bond connection beyond the GFCI
> ELCIs are a type of GFP, have a trip rating of 10 to 100 ma, come in various circuit configurations, and DO have a ground/bond beyond the device
> Not all ELCI's have ABYC approval
>
> The only time a GFCI is required on docks are for 120 v. 15/20 amp outlets and 240 v. dock hoist circuits. NEC 555.19(B)1
> Outlets beyond the GFCI (whether in a panel or in the wall/pedestal) are not to be bonded and are to be marked "No Equipment Ground"
> Shore power receptacles 30/50 amp connectors do not require GFCI installation.
> Dock power feeds require a GFP/ELCI with a 100 ma maximum rating on new installations IF the NEC 2011 has been adopted by the local authority. NEC 555.3
> Keep in mind that the the ABYC recommendation and the NEC requirement apply to new or upgraded installations only.

Peg and Jim Healy aboard Sanctuary
Currently at Rock Creek, Pasadena, MD
http://gilwellbear.wordpress.com
Monk 36 Hull #132
MMSI #367042570
AGLCA #3767
MTOA #3436